My boyfriend wants to fix things before he propose

[hannarivers]

Hi. The title might be misleading, had not enough space to write the whole thing. 

I want to state one thing. My boyfriend of almost 4 years told me throughout the years that he wants to propose, and I clearly said that I am dating for a ring, not a fling. He knows I am growing impatient because it was first said to be in november, then february, and this time he said something that really hurt me.  He looked at the wall, asking "do you think this is a stable relationship?". I just could not say a word. He continued by saying "I just dont want to argue in 20 years". I told him that it is over then, and he told me that he does want to propose, and it is guaranteed, just not this way. He says he wants me, just not like that, we have to fix this one problem before he puts the ring on it. 

I completely understand that you get engaged when it is good for you, but I feel like he does not understand a relationship. I changed so so much for the better in the last few months, all the people around me said that. I think I deserve the trust that we can work on it while I am already his fiancée. I proved myself, I went from a complete beserk of a person to a caring, calm, communicating, understanding one. I changed my bad habits, and people say it is good to be around me. I feel hurt that he wants to wait and wait, like, what if his so wanted change would come when I already leave him? What if it comes in 2 years, but I am not waiting that long anymore? I truly dont understand what he wants. Saying he wants to fix arguing when he is the reason we argue, I communicate my feelings, he explains why I misunderstood instead of just saying "sorry, didnt mean to hurt you, I will be more careful next time". 

So, my problem is this. He keeps telling me he wants to propose. But since we talked about it, I cant act like I would in a relationship. I cant touch him, hug him, sex stopped. I feel like it is useless if an engagement is not promised because after a year with him, I was sure I wanted him for life, despite the problems. He says it is all the same, but I feel like it is pointless if I cant be sure. I love him so much and I miss him truly. 

[Wiseman2]

How old is he? Do you live together? Do you both work? Unfortunately it seems he's stalling because he doesn't want to get married. Please step back and continue to take care of yourself.

[hannarivers]

He is halfway 25, I am 23. We have been living together for 2,5 years. We work. I asked him what he wants from life, from me. He said a house with me, marriage and a baby later. We save money for the house and right now we are renovating the apartment we rent together

[MissCanuck]

17 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I think I deserve the trust that we can work on it while I am already his fiancée

No, that's not what a healthy relationship looks like. It isn't about "deserving" to be engaged. It's about establishing a consistently stable foundation before deciding to commit for life. It sounds as though you two only have a few months' of stability, which isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. 

20 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I cant touch him, hug him, sex stopped

Are you trying to punish him into proposing? 

21 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I feel like it is useless if an engagement is not promised

You are way too focused on a ring, and not enough on actually having a healthy relationship. 

21 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I went from a complete beserk of a person

Meaning what? What was your behaviour life before?

I am not trying to pin this all on you, but we are lacking a lot of context to your current situation. Whatever the case, pressuring someone into proposing before they truly want to is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

[hannarivers]

22 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Are you trying to punish him into proposing? 

Definitely not. I cant do these things because it hurts. I feel like I am going through a breakup. I am the kind of person who can do these things only in a relationship, and I feel like I am not in one anymore. I feel betrayed, I worked so hard to make him feel like I am his future, I wanted to be officially his, on paper too, and he just threw it in my face. 

 

22 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Meaning what? What was your behaviour life before

I was reactive, I used names, screamed and I was nitpicking everything. I acted like a hurt child who does everything so mom and dad understands their feelings (this is where it comes from actually). He was the same, he just didnt pick fights by himself, but he was inconsiderate and hurt me too many times. He broke my trust, he was a p addict. I went to therapy and decided to change myself because I dont want this life for my love and myself. And I did. Completely. The arguements that stayed are present because he could not change as fast as I did, so he still is not as great with undsrstanding my feelings. But he also grew, he stopped p, he begin to express his feelings with words. We have much more conversations, 100x better s3x. 

[hannarivers]

31 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

You are way too focused on a ring, and not enough on actually having a healthy relationship. 

I focused on creating a much better relationship. And I did. I felt like finally we made it. So I developed a strong desire to be his official partner. 

[MissCanuck]

This relationship sounds nowhere near ready to make it lifelong, I'm sorry to say. 

You both need to spend a lot more time maturing and growing together as a healthy couple. A few months is not enough to undo years of hurt on both sides. 

13 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

worked so hard to make him feel like I am his future, I wanted to be officially his, on paper too, and he just threw it in my face. 

He didn't throw anything in your face. He's being smart about this - you two are not ready to be married. 

[hannarivers]

5 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

This relationship sounds nowhere near ready to make it lifelong, I'm sorry to say. 

You both need to spend a lot more time maturing and growing together as a healthy couple. A few months is not enough to undo years of hurt on both sides. 

He didn't throw anything in your face. He's being smart about this - you two are not ready to be married. 

Not ready to be married, but ready to promise that we will work together as a team. Because like this, as a "girlfriend", I dont feel like he takes me seriously

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

 I developed a strong desire to be his official partner. 

Unfortunately he doesn't want to or have to marry you. If you choose to live together, that's fine. 

[MissCanuck]

3 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Not ready to be married, but ready to promise that we will work together as a team. Because like this, as a "girlfriend", I dont feel like he takes me seriously

That's your problem with perspective, though. Not his. 

You are being unreasonable about your expectation here, and what engagement means. It sounds to me like you are terrified he will break up with you at some point unless he proposes to you. Reading through your other threads, you are generally very insecure about this relationship and you seem to be desperate now to find a way to "keep" him. 

Engagement doesn't mean you two will last either, though.

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

That's your problem with perspective, though. Not his. 

You are being unreasonable about your expectation here, and what engagement means. It sounds to me like you are terrified he will break up with you at some point unless he proposes to you. Reading through your other threads, you are generally very insecure about this relationship and you seem to be desperate now to find a way to "keep" him. 

Engagement doesn't mean you two will last either, though.

 

I second, third, etc MissCanuck's advice.  Old married lady here who dated for the ring not the fling 99% of the time I dated for oh around 20 plus years.  You sound like you are treating him like a groom cake topper not an individual person -he is supposed to follow your script of "shoulds" - how a relationship should be, your standards of arguing, your standards of readiness, 

"Saying he wants to fix arguing when he is the reason we argue, I communicate my feelings, he explains why I misunderstood instead of just saying "sorry, didnt mean to hurt you, I will be more careful next time" -

So again it's your script - you use all the therapyspeak but my sense is you "communicate" your feelings with an expectation that he'll then follow the script -and I bet it's all on your timing -whether he wants to have that conversation right then or not -he'd better be ready!  Perhaps you have a tone of stress/urgency - and at a time when it's not practical for him to speak -for whatever reason.  Isn't it possible he is correct and you misunderstood his words? Do you want to be close to him or "right"? Just because you learned all these bells and whistles in therapy doesn't mean that you now have the upper hand in the How Couples Argue/How Couples Should Communicate ted talk.

I think the reason you argue is because you want that ring and proposal yesterday so every slight or perceived slight -you go there- you go to that place of "see he doesn't really want to be married to me or he wouldn't do X so now he'd better apologize as I wish or then I'll wonder if we're ever going to do the first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes mortgage and baby."

He knows all married couples argue.  Duh.  He's using it as an excuse because he's worried about being henpecked by you is my sense.  Just my take. I'm sorry.

 

[hannarivers]

Okay. Then, please help me out here. Lets say he does something hurtful. I will make up a scenario that is fake. We have a group gathering. His friend tells me something insulting, eg, "stop acting like you can cook, you are definitely not a chef". I tell my boyfriend that he didnt say a word when his friend said that. So he comes to me saying "honey, you know how he is, it was just a joke". So I tell him how it was hurtful that he didnt believe me or just told me that next time he will stand up for me, and after this, he gets mad that I am sensitive and his friend would never insult me. Now what? He explained he thought his friend would never insult me, but I feel insulted. What is next? 

Also, how can couples wait more than 4 years to propose? I would feel like my partner doesnt want me. This is what I feel now. He builds our room at this very moment. He built a table for my pet. He texted me in the morning that his mom cooked m favorite meal and she sent me some. How can he care about me this much and still not enough? Im willing to listen, if someone can explain to me how a proposal is not a must after 4 years with a person you love and want so much, with the person you say "I want to work on this with you, I want to wake up with you every day" 

 

[Kwothe28]

17 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

How can he care about me this much and still not enough? Im willing to listen, if someone can explain to me how a proposal is not a must after 4 years with a person you love and want so much, with the person you say "I want to work on this with you, I want to wake up with you every day" 

There is easy and logical explanation for that. Not everybody desires and wants marriage in general. Meaning that while he does care about you, he may not see marriage as something he desires. Some people just dont. They consider weddings useless and waste of money and resources and they consider marriage just a piece of paper or even a burden in terms of legal obligations. So, while he may care about you, he may not want to marry you. Because he doesnt want marriage at all. 

Also how is his porn issue and you not condoning him watching it? Did you two resolved that?

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

, if someone can explain to me how a proposal is not a must after 4 years with a person you love and want so much, with the person you say "I want to work on this with you, I want to wake up with you every day" 

 

It seems like he's very happy just living together and has no intention of marrying.   Step back. Stop cooking cleaning acting like a wife when you're not. What incentive does he have to marry you if it's already like you're married?

[MissCanuck]

14 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

So I tell him how it was hurtful that he didnt believe me or just told me that next time he will stand up for me, and after this, he gets mad that I am sensitive and his friend would never insult me. Now what?

I don't see why you think being engaged would change this. You are misleading yourself by believing he doesn't stick up for you because you're his girlfriend and not his fianceé. In other words, you're confusing two issues that are unrelated. Being his fianceé won't suddenly make him more sensitive to your feelings or needs, Hanna. 

16 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

if someone can explain to me how a proposal is not a must after 4 years with a person you love and want so much

Because a proposal is never a "must." You don't need to wait 4 years, but you're failing to understand how the past turmoil is no doubt giving him great reservation today about getting engaged. The not-so-distant past was not good. It makes no sense to jump from dysfunction to engagement, and no, a few months is not enough to see whether both of you have really changed for the better.

You're approaching this all wrong. Pressuring him to give you a ring is not the way forward and it will make him resent you, and probaby dump you. If you really love him, don't make this all about getting a ring. You will wind up alone if you continue this way. Give the relationship more time to grow in a healthy way, and see what he does when you quit badgering him about it. If you really can't stand to do, you need to break up with him. 

[hannarivers]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Not everybody desires and wants marriage in general.

He did say he sees his future quite basic, he wants a wife, a kid, a good home and travelling with his family. 

 

6 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

I don't see why you think being engaged would change this.

I never said that. I reacted to someone saying that I might not consider if he is right in an arguement. I asked advice on how to not argue in a situation like this made up one. 

 

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Stop cooking cleaning acting like a wife when you're not. What incentive does he have to marry you if it's already like you're married?

Then how should I live together with anyone? When I had a roommate, we shared things. When she didnt feel like cleaning, she offered to pay for my meals. When we both cleaned, we didnt share food. It was 50-50, or I like to say 100-100. If I treated him as a roommate and not a partner, I would still have chores. 

[MissCanuck]

4 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I never said that. I reacted to someone saying that I might not consider if he is right in an arguement. I asked advice on how to not argue in a situation like this made up one

I'll clairfy what I meant: 

You said earlier that you feel he doesn't take you serioulsy because you're only a girlfriend. What makes you think this would change just because you get engaged? If he doesn't take you seriously now, that won't be different just because he buys you a ring. 

[hannarivers]

1 minute ago, MissCanuck said:

I'll clairfy what I meant: 

You said earlier that you feel he doesn't take you serioulsy because you're only a girlfriend. What makes you think this would change just because you get engaged? If he doesn't take you seriously now, that won't be different just because he buys you a ring. 

I see now. I didnt mean taking seriously THIS way. People tend to take things for granted. If he sees that I am here without a ring, he will think "oh well, why should I step up". There IS power in saying someone is your fiancée/wife. Even at my workplace, coworkers only leave those women alone who are engaged or married. If you are just a gf, you get the "what, your lil boyfriend minds it if I compliment you?". You do get a title that you belong to someone. If he ever told me that he doesnt want marriage, okay. But he said he wants it. Which does make me impatient in a sense that if he doesnt do it before a certain time, he will just break up with me. 

[Kwothe28]

11 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

He did say he sees his future quite basic, he wants a wife, a kid, a good home and travelling with his family. 

 

And that still doesnt mean he wants a marriage. He can make you kid without one and he can have you as a partner without one. And you two certanly can travel without a marriage certificate. 

What I am trying to say is that its you who pushes for marriage. To him it might not has been as important as it is to you. 

For the record I do believe in marriage. But just saying that people, especially younger ones, today just not consider it as important as before. 

[hannarivers]

20 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Also how is his porn issue and you not condoning him watching it? Did you two resolved that

We talked many hours, days about how porn badly affected our sexlife for years. It made him lazy, feeling like if there is not that much sex, it is okay, he will take care of himself. Which lead me to take care of myself more, too. So we started experimenting and found things we like, now we are statisfyed. He does use our homemade ones about every two weeks. 

[hannarivers]

4 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And that still doesnt mean he wants a marriage. He can make you kid without one and he can have you as a partner without one. And you two certanly can travel without a marriage certificate. 

What I am trying to say is that its you who pushes for marriage. To him it might not has been as important as it is to you. 

For the record I do believe in marriage. But just saying that people, especially younger ones, today just not consider it as important as before. 

There was a time when I said "what if we didnt go through with engagement, wedding, just the paper so we can buy the house we want" (in my country, sometimes you can only share a house with someone if you are married). He said that it is a good idea for the house, but he wants to propose to me, it is the wedding ceremony he doesnt care about. And to be fair, me neither. I want the few people we love to be there, an affordable dress, good food and some photos. 

[Coily]

The ring and fiance status is irrelevant. What is relevant is his position that you two need to work together as a couple, not damsel in distress and white knight.

It's not that he doesn't love you or doesn't want to marry you; it's that he takes this very seriously. He needs to figure out if the two of you will continue to have these minor incidents explode into him being a villain for not doing as you want. He is likely slowing down on proposing as he doesn't want to feel trapped if you backslide into your admitted bad habits.

You need to shift your focus away from this obsession with a ring. It's blinding you to the rest of the relationship, and why your BF hasn't proposed. Work on making yourself into wife material, and offer to help him grow with you.

I will say that I have seen a guy date a woman for a month, then get engaged so he could trap her into the relationship. He did that with 4 or more women, he didn't place value on the relationship; he just wanted to make it harder for them to leave when his true colours showed.

 

 

[MissCanuck]

7 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

There IS power in saying someone is your fiancée/wife.

Not really, no. This is your inexperience speaking. But I say this as someone twice your age who has been around the block a few times. It is not the power/status-symbol you think it is. 

9 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Even at my workplace, coworkers only leave those women alone who are engaged or married. If you are just a gf, you get the "what, your lil boyfriend minds it if I compliment you?".

Oh, girl. You think men don't hit on married/taken women? You have a lot to learn about men. 

Look, I don't mean to be unkind but you are very young and it shows.  Your lack of insight into why he hasn't proposed yet also indicates that you really don't take engagement seriously either. You want to get engaged for all the wrong reasons. 

[Wiseman2]

15 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

 it is the wedding ceremony he doesnt care about. And to be fair, me neither

Why not remove this from the equation if you believe it's holding things up? Is sad he won't step up and disappoints you making jump through one hoop after the next when you would like to sincerely build a life.  Perhaps step back from the marriage conversation for a while. 

[bluecastle]

First off, I suggest rereading every single one of MissCanuck's posts—slowly, letting the words sink in, rather than reacting to them. Just give all that some real thought because there is some serious wisdom there.  

Secondly, some big picture thoughts of my own to chew on: 

My sense, hard as this may be to hear, is that what your both want, deep down, is for the other person to be...someone else, someone they are not. For you that means him being more sensitive to your feelings and keen to tie the knot, while for him that means you being less sensitive in general so he doesn't feel like he's living in petri dish.

Admitting this, however, is next to impossible. To say it out loud is to basically say that you both would be better off ending this and finding a more compatible partner. That's scary and painful. And so the proposal/marriage stuff becomes a little stage on which you both act this out, each of you nudging the other to morph into the version of the person you truly want to be in a relationship with.

For you the story goes something like: if he proposes then you'll feel better, less hyper-sensitive and critical of him and more secure in your own skin. For him, meanwhile, it goes something like: if you can chill just a touch then he'll be on board with proposal/marriage, trusting that it will be more than a lifelong commitment to draining arguments. Which is to say: If he/you became someone else then none of this would be so hard.

The harder you each cling to these stories the further apart you guys will become. You can try to sparkle over that distance with labels, proposals, rings, even a wedding. Time will inevitably do what time does, revealing the "fix" to be less than solid.

At the end of the day, do you really want to force him or any man to propose to you?