Boyfriend too submissive

[Cherylyn]

Have a talk with him.  Ask him to be more assertive.  Tell him that as long as it's in good taste and decorum,  you'll appreciate his input.  Tell him that you want a take charge attitude from him.  Remember to emphasize that you are grateful for his stellar qualities of being very generous,  kind,  thoughtful,  extremely considerate,  non-confrontational,  gentlemanly,  incredibly helpful (cook / cleans / errands / shopping / chores) and harmonious.  Express your gratitude,  recognize and acknowledge his outstanding character.  There is a way to have lucid and preferably in person conversations regarding your concerns.  However,  don't expect rapid change nor command him because no one wants to be told what to do.  He's most likely treading lightly because he fears angering you.  Therefore,  reassure him that you won't get mad at him for speaking up if he disagrees with you or takes initiative. 

Be prepared for him telling you that change is hard or it's difficult for him to be the type of man you expect or prefer.  If your complaints about him are overwhelming for him to handle or he is reluctant to transform his ways,  then you determine whether or not you want him as is.  Those are the decisions you must weigh.   

Also, be aware that the pendulum swings in all sorts of directions.  In the other extreme,  I've known men amongst my family and friends who are outspoken,  take charge,  speak up,  take initiative and have a voice to a fault.  That can get ugly very fast.  They're full of hot air.  Their poor wives are tired.  These men have a mouth yet they're not very helpful,   kind nor considerate.  

If your boyfriend is as you've described and it's as good as it gets for you,  if I had my druthers,  I'd thank my lucky stars. 

I hope you find your happy medium though.  Just know that if you had to pick and choose a man's character and how he is,  be very grateful and focus on the majority of what he gives of himself.

[Batya33]

OP also be specific -do you want "take charge" or you simply want him to express an opinion if he has one or a preference rather than follow along passively with all your suggestions? Do you want him to plan more and take the lead in planning? Like -who plans travel/vacations if you do that sort of thing? And yes if you want him to take charge that's separate from expressing a preference.

Also good time to discuss sort of division of labor.  I'm better at dealing with customer service type issues especially at hotels while my husband is much better at figuring out itineraries/modes of travel, etc.  

I knew of a couple where she never ordered for herself at a restaurant if she was with her husband -she was quite capable but wanted him to order for her every time -she'd whisper it to him.  That would make me cringe -but yes a couple of times at fancy places for fancy occasions it's been fun to have my husband tell the waiter what we'll each have.

[Wiseman2]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:17 AM, Jessica L said:

. I have tried talking to him about it, 

When I met him, I knew he was more on the submissive side, but not to this extent

What did he say when you talked to him about it? If you want someone to change this much, reflect if you are with the right man. 

Asking someone to change could be controlling, which ironically you want him to be more of.

Do you respect him? Are you afraid he's hiding something or acting out of guilt?

[Cherylyn]

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I knew of a couple where she never ordered for herself at a restaurant if she was with her husband -she was quite capable but wanted him to order for her every time -she'd whisper it to him.  That would make me cringe -but yes a couple of times at fancy places for fancy occasions it's been fun to have my husband tell the waiter what we'll each have.

A lot of times,  beforehand,  I'll tell my husband what I want to order and when the waiter or waitress takes our order,   he'll place the order for both of us whether or not we order the same meal or different entree.  It's not a habit though.  It's random.  We've been married for so long that we don't make a big deal out of this. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Cherylyn said:

A lot of times,  beforehand,  I'll tell my husband what I want to order and when the waiter or waitress takes our order,   he'll place the order for both of us whether or not we order the same meal or different entree.  It's not a habit though.  It's random.  We've been married for so long that we don't make a big deal out of this. 

Yes- in this couple's case she wanted him to do it as a way of being The Man.  My husband does the same for me or sometimes if he needs to take a call/use the restroom -he tells me what he wants and I order.  

[Jessica L]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

OP also be specific -do you want "take charge" or you simply want him to express an opinion if he has one or a preference rather than follow along passively with all your suggestions? Do you want him to plan more and take the lead in planning? Like -who plans travel/vacations if you do that sort of thing? And yes if you want him to take charge that's separate from expressing a preference.

Also good time to discuss sort of division of labor.  I'm better at dealing with customer service type issues especially at hotels while my husband is much better at figuring out itineraries/modes of travel, etc.  

I simply want him to express an opinion if he has one or a preference rather than follow along passively with all my suggestions. 

[Jessica L]

5 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Have a talk with him.  Ask him to be more assertive.  Tell him that as long as it's in good taste and decorum,  you'll appreciate his input.  

Yeah, will do.

[Coily]

I have to agree with Lost, if the OP's boyfriend is in his work place a take no prisoner's kind of guy; when he's off the clock he doesn't want to be the same man he is at the office.

In this case he goes from picking fights in political spaces, to just happy to be the polar opposite. It's not as if there is some hidden side of him, he just doens't feel the need to be the dominant member of this relationship.

I don't think asking him to be assertive will really be more than a flash in the pan, as he will do things to appease you. Then over time he will return to the old ways.

 

[Jessica L]

Ok so I have had an honest conversation with him. He said pretty much exactly what Coily and Lost said, and that he likes having me in charge and following orders. He also said that he finds it relaxing to be this way at home, and a nice break from work where he says he spends his days "telling people what to do" and "picking fights with journos".

This was the sort of honesty I was after, and now I know the cause of the behaviour.

Problem solved

Thanks everyone.

[Cherylyn]

4 hours ago, Jessica L said:

Ok so I have had an honest conversation with him. He said pretty much exactly what Coily and Lost said, and that he likes having me in charge and following orders. He also said that he finds it relaxing to be this way at home, and a nice break from work where he says he spends his days "telling people what to do" and "picking fights with journos".

This was the sort of honesty I was after, and now I know the cause of the behaviour.

Problem solved

Thanks everyone.

Sounds great @Jessica L.  I remember my former boss.  He was a take charge type of guy but whenever his wife called,  he suddenly deferred to her a lot,  became soft and tenderhearted.  He sure changed his tune!  Then as soon as his phone call was finished,  he was back to his old self again with his subordinates (me at the time) and quite gruff with his colleagues.  Go figure.  He sounds reminiscent of your boyfriend.  

My neighbor and husband both said this:  "Happy wife equals happy life."  Very smart men!  😉 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Jessica L said:

 he says he spends his days "telling people what to do" and "picking fights with journos".

Exactly. He can't be bothered making his home a struggle and battle just to shake things up. 

He just may be more refined/gentlemanly and secure than more machismo brutes that order women around and pick fights to keep them in line.  

You could still be less demanding and dominating since you're the only person you can change in this scenario. 

[Cherylyn]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes- in this couple's case she wanted him to do it as a way of being The Man.  My husband does the same for me or sometimes if he needs to take a call/use the restroom -he tells me what he wants and I order.  

Yes and vice versa and I will add,  I don't mind in the least to be taken care of.  I rather enjoy my role.  It's reminiscent of how my FIL treats MIL.  (My father and mother-in-law).  They're the same way.  I still have a very equal say in my marriage but during many other times,  I enjoy being taken care of and my husband enjoys being deferred to as well.  We have an unspoken agreement and it suits us just fine.  It may not be for other couples but we're comfortable with how things are.  To us, it's not about gender roles either.  Yes indeed he's  "The Man" and I'm  "His Lady."  It's an ingrained habit and all is very well.  🙂  To each his or her own.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Yes and vice versa and I will add,  I don't mind in the least to be taken care of.  I rather enjoy my role.  It's reminiscent of how my FIL treats MIL.  (My father and mother-in-law).  They're the same way.  I still have a very equal say in my marriage but during many other times,  I enjoy being taken care of and my husband enjoys being deferred to as well.  We have an unspoken agreement and it suits us just fine.  It may not be for other couples but we're comfortable with how things are.  To us, it's not about gender roles either.  Yes indeed he's  "The Man" and I'm  "His Lady."  It's an ingrained habit and all is very well.  🙂  To each his or her own.

I love being taken care of too by someone who is reasonably confident and secure and does it from a place of giving not with an intense focus on people pleasing/fear -I don't want someone to do stuff for me if it's mostly out of people pleasing/fear -it's unsettling and worse -whether in marriage, friendship, etc. I love traditional roles too in my marriage and elsewhere as appropriate. 

Also she can tell him she loves being taken care of and if he wants to do so the way he goes about it doesn't make her feel taken care of.  I went out with a number of men who sort of went through the motions of "taking care of" but not really trying to figure out what that would mean to me. 

[smackie9]

Ya I think if you explain exactly what you want him to do he can make a compromise. You are not expecting him to be like he is at work , ruthless, confrontational, demanding….just him to have a difference of opinion, some self expression, intellectual interaction, etc. Change won’t happen over night but obviously he gets it and you both now can move forward. Hope everything goes well. 

[boltnrun]

I had a very bad habit of telling my husband "Why do I always have to pick the restaurant? Why don't you pick this time?" And then he'd suggest a restaurant and I'd say "Nah, I don't feel like going there" to every suggestion he made. Then he'd say (exasperated) "That's why I always let you choose! I don't care where we eat!" It was ridiculous of me to insist he choose when I was going to override all of his choices!

If you find yourself doing something similar, maybe explore if you truly want him to make some decisions or if you just think you're supposed to because of some sort of societal expectations or whatever. 

[Cherylyn]

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I love being taken care of too by someone who is reasonably confident and secure and does it from a place of giving not with an intense focus on people pleasing/fear -I don't want someone to do stuff for me if it's mostly out of people pleasing/fear -it's unsettling and worse -whether in marriage, friendship, etc. I love traditional roles too in my marriage and elsewhere as appropriate. 

Also she can tell him she loves being taken care of and if he wants to do so the way he goes about it doesn't make her feel taken care of.  I went out with a number of men who sort of went through the motions of "taking care of" but not really trying to figure out what that would mean to me. 

Everyone has their own definitions of being taken care of.  For my husband and me,  we take care of each other including deferring to each other.  It's our unspoken way of treating each other.  It never comes out of fear or simply acquiescing.  It's perfectly natural for us. 

He'll do a lot for me whether I ask him or not as I do for him.  He does anything,  goes above and beyond.  We pick up the slack for each other.  He's very industrious and productive especially at the home front.  During other times,  I'll do a lot for him.  For example,  for our current landscaping /  hardscape / construction project for our front and back yards,  I bring homemade meals to my husband and brother so they can take a break for lunch and yet another early evening meal after that.  An army runs on its stomach.  They eat hearty meals outdoors and then it's back to work.  They wouldn't think to feed themselves.  I don't want them stomping in the house.  They'll work despite hunger pangs and then they'll sustain headaches!  Not good.  ☹️ I prevent those scenarios and they continue their labor.   In this way,  I contribute to their productivity. 

One of my first jobs was a professional hairstylist before my office jobs so I know how to cut my husband's hair (and sons).  They always look great.  I iron their collared shirts.  I shop and choose their chic clothes.  I cook a lot.  They enjoy it.  They defer to me in many ways.

Then in other ways, I defer to my men a lot as well. 

As for OP @Jessica L, I suggest to do more for her boyfriend since he gives so much of himself to her.  This is how I look at it.  My husband does tons for me so instead of trying to change him to be the type of man I want him to be,  I don't.  Instead,  I do a lot for him so our marriage and family life continues to thrive.  It works both ways.  He's very easy going,  gives so much of himself to me and our sons and I do the same for him and our family. 

I see nothing wrong with requesting a man to take initiative or speak up but if he's comfortable being the way he is,  I'll simply contribute so I'm not doing all the taking while he's doing all the giving. 

There are times when you have to appreciate and be grateful for how a man is and work around it.  It is very much doable.  Sure,  it's great to institute change but if a person won't change how you want them to,  there's always another way to still have a harmonious rapport and relationship.  It has worked for me and I hope it works for @Jessica L as well.  😊

[Cherylyn]

19 hours ago, Jessica L said:

Ok so I have had an honest conversation with him. He likes having me in charge and following orders. He also said that he finds it relaxing to be this way at home, and a nice break from work where he says he spends his days "telling people what to do" and "picking fights with journos".

This was the sort of honesty I was after, and now I know the cause of the behavior.

Problem solved

Thanks everyone.

This was a great answer from your boyfriend.  I've known men reminiscent of your boyfriend including my husband! 

I'd feel giddy with a boyfriend like yours and my husband is very similar.  Some men are comfortable switching gears once they're off the clock (from work). 

Your boyfriend is a crown jewel as is mine.  🙂

[Batya33]

Glad you’re happy with the outcome !