Looking for some guidance on where and what to look for to tell if a girl might be into a guy like me (before approaching)

[ummmmmmmm]

Pictures do an easier job explaining things, so:

Note: picture removed

The top 3 are me now. The bottom are me as a kid and teenager.

Now, as surprising as it sounds, kid/teenager got mercilessly made fun of every day for his entire childhood. His personality was also about what you'd expect: perma-cringe nerd who wanted to be  c o o l, more than anything in the universe, and for some reason could only ever have crushes on girls 10 trillion miles out of his league. 

 

Fast forward 10 years: when it comes to girls, I still feel exactly the way I did back then: that when, I approach them, they will most likely not at all be into me, and I'll just feel like an undesirable idiot. The good thing, though: I know that I have merit, that underneath the wrapping paper I possess the desirable qualities that make a good boyfriend, possibly even a great one.

and now

 

 

*** it; it's late and I'm tired and lonely, and this'll give me hopeful thoughts to fall asleep to, so

this is my dream companion , who I would do almost anything to meet:

if you can imagine a girl who like....is so sweet and nice and genuine and warm that you would have a hard time imagining her being with a guy who looks like I do. but that's the thing, she's 200% good girl, but for whatever reason has this secret thing, that either nobody or just her best friend knows about, for (can't believe I'm saying this) "bad boys".

the reason I put that in quotes is because it's really just the idea and aesthetic that she's attracted to, the look. and even if she wanted it to be more than that, she couldn't, because she's just too damn nice and sweet; when she tries to interact with it, be it, it's almost pitiful (I say that SO endearingly). no matter how hard she tries, she's always gonna be that cute nice

thing with the most perfect smile that has ever existed, who can't wear too much makeup or dress too edgily,  (and doesn't need to, because she's got the natural thing going on), and loves animals, and is just UGH

and here's why we're perfect together:

I am her; I've worked at a daycare, I make up songs and sing them to my cat, I have very good mannners, I can't say bad things about people without first acknowledging good things about them, I cannot lie (my conscience simply cannot handle it). The only difference is, since I was bullied-ish so bad as a kid, I didn't just have a curiosity about the edge; I dove in, because I needed to be cool. And I'm gonna be honest: I may have succeeded. I'm a super passionate musician, I have a lax attitude about 99% of things, I never get angry. The best compliment I've ever gotten was "You have this aura that says you just get it, all of it" (🥲)

*ahem*

So anyway, there's that, but there's also still the nerdy stuff; manga, history, the only things I can watch are documentaries, extremely complicated video games, fantasizing to this extent. So I think, if that girl exists, or existed, and she thought I was good looking, she would totally be into me. My ex, of my first real relationship (4 years, and first in love)  which ended 5 months ago, was kind of her, and mostly into me. The aesthetic attraction and bad looking boy thing, nah; she'd just roll her eyes and smile. But everything else? Quite yes.

She was also one in a million, which is why I'm here, trying to learn to identify; where to go, anything. And I guess I'll bring it down to reality: I am not into girls who like the same music as me, and that's the only thing to go off of with the where-can-I-go-to-likely-meet-girls-who-might-be-into-me thing. I know they exist outside of that sphere though, hidden amongst the majority which (at least I assume) looks at me and goes "ew, no". And that assumption is why I'm scared to just go in blind, keep getting shot down until I get lucky. 

So, anything? 

 

ps: thank you for taking the time to read this, I sincerely appreciate yout consideration 🥲

 

pss: lastly, I'm going to ask (quite possibly in vain), that if you're planning to respond to this with either:

A: the stereotypical mean & intentional hurtful comments that tend to flood message boards like this, let alone the entire internet

B. something that's underlying and/or overlying message is a form of "tough love"; something with positive intent but that does not consist of a minimum 50.00001% warmness/positive understanding/an intent to comfort/reassure/encourage me

please just don't comment it. obviously I can't control it, I'm making myself into an open target by posting this, but I'm in a very vulnerable place right now. as far as the tough love goes, that does not work on or for me;  the only thing it does is literally make me hate you even more than you hate me, and wish horrible things upon you. 

without comments like that though, I can promise you with 100% certainty that I would NEVER do either of those things to you; I'd either attempt to be comforting and encouraging, or simply ignore it.

sooo, yeah. now we see what happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

This is not a dating app. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting local women for a low-key coffee ☕.

 

[ummmmmmmm]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is not a dating app. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting local women for a low-key coffee ☕.

 

That doesn't answer my question

[ummmmmmmm]

psss: this^^ comment reminded me, also please do not respond if said response does not directly/specifically answer my question; I think that's a waste of your time as well as mine

[Batya33]

Are you looking for a long term commitment? I can't tell from what you wrote.  If you're not I highly suggest not going to online sites just to find dates -too much work/aggravation/stress unless you're looking for long term/marriage/marital like commitment.

I could not see -and do not need to see- photos you mentioned in your post. Also not sure if you just casually refer to women as girls or whether you're trying to date teenage girls.  From your defensive/defeatist tone I think you're most likely getting in your own way and dating is hard enough without that attitude.  I dated for over two decades and most of that time wanted a husband.  Had a number of LTR before my "final" one with my husband.  

My suggestion is get out there and involved where approaching a woman is not really necessary - be involved in activities where conversation and mingling and networking is organic -avoid loud bars or clubs unless it's a planned singles event or planned around another common ground activity.  If organic, much easier to strike up conversations and not have that pressure of "approaching".  

Some of the things I did where I either was around single men or around people who could introduce me to them:  volunteer work (mostly working in a homeless shelter but also fundraising phonathons), some swing dance type classes, traveling to singles resorts by myself, singles events at my place of worship, a women's networking group where we also introduced each other to single men we knew.  I also belonged to a gym for many years and was there a number of times a week.

Some of the things my friends did to meet men:  gym, hiking, tennis, salsa dancing, volunteer work, habitat for humanity and related activities, cycling (one married couple we know met through a craigslist ad for a cycling partner), and -a really successful one -volunteering backstage at community theater groups.

Also ask yourself -do you like people -meaning do you like listening to people share their anecdotes, life stories, experiences, perspectives - do you like listening and enjoying hearing about other peoples' lives? Are you an active listener? Do you have positive body language and give off positive vibes with rare exception (we all have our moments and days especially now I get it).  Do you walk and carry yourself with confidence -and are you approachable? 

I wish you luck.  It's easy enough to find someone to casually date.  Much harder to find your person. For me all those years and my part time job of husband hunting -couldn't be more worth it.  No regrets, the opposite.  

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, ummmmmmmm said:

psss: this^^ comment reminded me, also please do not respond if said response does not directly/specifically answer my question; I think that's a waste of your time as well as mine

How to tell? You can't.  The end.  Some situations are more obvious.  I approached my future husband first.  Crossed a crowded conference room to greet him on his first day of work (but we didn't marry until 14 years and approximately 5 weeks later with a huge break in between).  But if you do some of the activities I mentioned you won't need to have to tell and you won't need to approach in any forceful way -it will be a natural part of the activity.  There are no guarantees, and "feeling" rejected even if of course it's not a rejection of you is part of the package.  You decide if it's worth it. It's ok if it's not.  I decided it was.  I would decide that all over again now despite all I went through.

[ummmmmmmm]

37 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Are you looking for a long term commitment? I can't tell from what you wrote.  If you're not I highly suggest not going to online sites just to find dates -too much work/aggravation/stress unless you're looking for long term/marriage/marital like commitment.

I could not see -and do not need to see- photos you mentioned in your post. Also not sure if you just casually refer to women as girls or whether you're trying to date teenage girls.  From your defensive/defeatist tone I think you're most likely getting in your own way and dating is hard enough without that attitude.  I dated for over two decades and most of that time wanted a husband.  Had a number of LTR before my "final" one with my husband.  

My suggestion is get out there and involved where approaching a woman is not really necessary - be involved in activities where conversation and mingling and networking is organic -avoid loud bars or clubs unless it's a planned singles event or planned around another common ground activity.  If organic, much easier to strike up conversations and not have that pressure of "approaching".  

Some of the things I did where I either was around single men or around people who could introduce me to them:  volunteer work (mostly working in a homeless shelter but also fundraising phonathons), some swing dance type classes, traveling to singles resorts by myself, singles events at my place of worship, a women's networking group where we also introduced each other to single men we knew.  I also belonged to a gym for many years and was there a number of times a week.

Some of the things my friends did to meet men:  gym, hiking, tennis, salsa dancing, volunteer work, habitat for humanity and related activities, cycling (one married couple we know met through a craigslist ad for a cycling partner), and -a really successful one -volunteering backstage at community theater groups.

Also ask yourself -do you like people -meaning do you like listening to people share their anecdotes, life stories, experiences, perspectives - do you like listening and enjoying hearing about other peoples' lives? Are you an active listener? Do you have positive body language and give off positive vibes with rare exception (we all have our moments and days especially now I get it).  Do you walk and carry yourself with confidence -and are you approachable? 

I wish you luck.  It's easy enough to find someone to casually date.  Much harder to find your person. For me all those years and my part time job of husband hunting -couldn't be more worth it.  No regrets, the opposite.  

well first off, thank you for such a detailed response. it is infinitely appreciated 🥲

secondly: ah, it deleted my picture link. let's see if it does that in replies as well: 

[picture removed]

thirdly: long term commitment, absolutely 

fourthly: do I like other people, and hearing about their lives....hmm...

I guess, in total honesty (and I feel like kind of an ass for it), I would say "I never dislike anyone unless they personally slight me, and their stories...I guess that depends. what I can definitively say, without thinking too much, is that in this context my only INTEREST, and what I'd ideally be spending my time doing/directly, or working towards, is (in) those stories which I can either personally relate to, or that get my brain gears turning in a way that makes me want to hear more about them and their stories. and, admittedly, that very rarely happens 😞 I feel somewhat bad about it too, and wish so badly that it wasn't a thing, but I just cannot control it. my brain is....very specific in regards to what it can/does "positively" respond to, and I can say with gneuine honesty that I am unable to control or change that process. or, more accurately, I've tried in the past and it hasn't come even close to working, so now I have little to no faith that it could ever happen.

 

and again: I truly hate that. it leads to a very lonely existence 😞 

 

 

 

[smackie9]

You are a musician so you know anything is possible as long as you put your mind to it and practice till you do get it. Just a thought, why not try that same approach to things you would like to change. Your frustration is normal, we all face life's challenges, some harder than others, that's just how life can be. It's tough for sure, and can be discouraging. Discouragement is the worst, you sometimes can feel it in the pit of your stomach. I think if you pick at it little at a time, it eventually gives way to something good/positive or at least some encouragement to keep going. Maybe do some exercises to clear your mind when you get over whelmed. I know this happens to me, the multiple thoughts clogs my thinking, and bogs me down mentally, I get angry sometimes lash out. I learn to just find a quiet place to shake it off. Sometime I go for a walk as a distraction. 

As to approach woman, wow that is so daunting for anyone, and no easy task really. I think it's key to let them get comfortable with you first so they can see what's under the wrapping. You know build up a rapport with them. Sure it's gonna be a hit or miss, but at least you keep trying and that one of the most positive things you can do for yourself...just keep trying!

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, ummmmmmmm said:

well first off, thank you for such a detailed response. it is infinitely appreciated 🥲

secondly: ah, it deleted my picture link. let's see if it does that in replies as well: 

[picture removed]

thirdly: long term commitment, absolutely 

fourthly: do I like other people, and hearing about their lives....hmm...

I guess, in total honesty (and I feel like kind of an ass for it), I would say "I never dislike anyone unless they personally slight me, and their stories...I guess that depends. what I can definitively say, without thinking too much, is that in this context my only INTEREST, and what I'd ideally be spending my time doing/directly, or working towards, is (in) those stories which I can either personally relate to, or that get my brain gears turning in a way that makes me want to hear more about them and their stories. and, admittedly, that very rarely happens 😞 I feel somewhat bad about it too, and wish so badly that it wasn't a thing, but I just cannot control it. my brain is....very specific in regards to what it can/does "positively" respond to, and I can say with gneuine honesty that I am unable to control or change that process. or, more accurately, I've tried in the past and it hasn't come even close to working, so now I have little to no faith that it could ever happen.

 

and again: I truly hate that. it leads to a very lonely existence 😞 

 

 

 

I mean I asked not to suggest you change but often I find that people who complain about the lack of a social life are more about "I should have a social life" or "I should date" but not because they actually enjoy getting to know people.  I do think travel and certain volunteering experiences can effect a change - broaden your perspective, broaden your interests, broaden your openness to others' lives. But you have to be motivated, have to want to.  

So then if you are really not that interested in other people other than to the somewhat limited extent you described -what would you want out of a healthy long term relationship? I mean sure you could meet someone who interests you in your narrow definition of it but you know people change, life stages change and long term requires that you desire to be with this person and want to listen to this person and often beyond "hmm does this relate to me, does this interest me?"

Loving is giving much more than a feeling - sometimes it is giving space, sometimes support, sometimes giving where you both get each other -even if you don't have tons in common at that point in time.  Consider whether you truly want to be a partner in a long term relationship and what that would look like to you.

[Rose Mosse]

I think you’re afraid of rejection. Try to let that go. There are no guarantees in life and seeing if someone shares mutual interest is fairly innocuous and easygoing in terms of issues. 

Relax. Chat and meet new people in person. It sounds like your LTR ended quite recently, just five months ago. Feeling a little sad and lonely is ok.

[waffle]

On 12/31/2021 at 6:58 AM, ummmmmmmm said:

and for some reason could only ever have crushes on girls 10 trillion miles out of his league. . . . 

Fast forward 10 years: when it comes to girls, I still feel exactly the way I did back then: that when, I approach them, they will most likely not at all be into me, and I'll just feel like an undesirable idiot. The good thing, though: I know that I have merit, that underneath the wrapping paper I possess the desirable qualities that make a good boyfriend, possibly even a great one.

<snip>

if you can imagine a girl who like....is so sweet and nice and genuine and warm that you would have a hard time imagining her being with a guy who looks like I do. but that's the thing, she's 200% good girl, but for whatever reason has this secret thing, that either nobody or just her best friend knows about, for (can't believe I'm saying this) "bad boys".

the reason I put that in quotes is because it's really just the idea and aesthetic that she's attracted to, the look. and even if she wanted it to be more than that, she couldn't, because she's just too damn nice and sweet; when she tries to interact with it, be it, it's almost pitiful (I say that SO endearingly). no matter how hard she tries, she's always gonna be that cute nice . . . 

thing with the most perfect smile that has ever existed, etc. etc. etc. etc

 

You are way too deep in fantasyland.  Most people are really just average people that you either click with or you don't.  Why not start there?  Writing the entire fantasy relationship before it happens and then chasing after women who are out of your league hoping to find one to fit into the mold you have created for her and hoping that she somehow won't recognize that you're not truly a match in many ways (i.e. she wants the You that you wish you were), sounds like a recipe for years and years of disappointment.

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, waffle said:

Most people are really just average people that you either click with or you don't.  Why not start there? 

Yup. This is the most liberating answer, because once you can grasp that good chemistry and simpatico are either possible with a given person--or not--you won't feel pressured to please. You'll adopt the resilience to encounter bad matches, which will be many, until you stumble across the needle in the haystack.

Same is true for everyone--most of us need to meet lots of 'NOs' before striking even a close possibility of a good match, and that includes being rejected, not just doing the rejecting.

And rejection is nothing more than learning that someone doesn't own the capacity to view you through the right lens. It doesn't mean you're not good enough for them, it means that they aren't able to see and appreciate you in the right way. AND, this will be true of most people--it's why we can have lots of acquaintances, but only a few close friends.

Skip the fantasies and just ask people to meet for a cup of coffee. You can use dating apps to set up these quick meets or just ask those you meet organically. This is a non-date way of just relaxing to get to know someone well enough to learn whether she'd be good date material for you.

Head high, and write more if it helps.

[spinstermanquee]

At the end of yoga class the other day, the instructor started reading something about fear.  Fear makes one cold, it can keep one safe from hurt but it also keeps one isolated from love.

I've read the opposite of love isn't hate:  it's fear.  Thinking more about it... being cold makes one hard, harsh, judgemental.  Labels, expectations and judgements start flooding in.  The mind becomes an enemy, not a friend, when it is clouded by fear - whispering doubts and criticisms.  I'm not talking about the kind of fear where you're afraid of doing something (like getting a new job or launching a new course of study) but you do it anyways.  That is courage.  We're talking about emotional FEAR - if I let them see who I really am they won't love me.  Or the kind of fear that leads animals to strike first - fear aggression (I'll hurt them before they hurt me).

If I meet someone new and I'm looking for them to disappoint me, I surely will spot something fairly quickly, which leads me to reject them first.  Am I saved?  No, I'd be repeating a self-sabotaging cycle because I want to connect, I want to open my heart, I deserve to be loved fully and completely as I am.  I want to stop the madness of self judgement, self sabotage, and shut up once and for all that tiny little voice in the back of my head that whispers "no one will ever love you," "you're not good enough," "you're not smart enough," "you're not pretty enough," blah blah blah (the sh*t the narcissistic female parent showered me with until I was old enough to run away from home)... but the brain, the brain, that little girl is still in there trying to repeat the toxic "lessons" learned from her mama.  So that's my "missing piece" that I need to create for myself.  Whole and unconditional love.

If you could source that negative mantra, or that thing that is missing from inside of you and work on that... perhaps that could shut up your own inner demon that is keeping you from fully becoming YOU, with all your wonderful qualities and maybe the ones that need to be dialed down... get dialed down.  Being your best self and happy with you are is tremendously attractive to folks who have their emotional act together.

Good luck my friend, you are in the right place here to touch base and get some input on what works for others.  Hope you get to mine a gold nugget amongst all the suggestions and stories!  Cheers...