Family issues and my career

[survivor2021]

Hello and thank you for visiting my topic.

I wanted to share this story and get some opinions for a long time. I am living and working in a third world country that has no promising life opportunities, no future and no dreams. So for a while now, especially after the Coronavirus epidemic, I started considering working abroad in a beautiful, safe city with a good quality of life. 

I just graduated as a software engineer and so far, I have been independant in my career. I got my two internships by myself, after some interviews and the same thing goes for my first and current job. The fact that I did not need any help and that my skills got me those opportunities makes me feel proud and believe that I can get a job abroad. 

But the thing is, I already have a brother, older than me by 7 years who is working in Tokyo, which is the number one city in my dream list. And the company in which he is working is my uncle's company. I had plans to join him there when I started going to college, but it changed when he started encountering problems due to his bad attitude in work. I actually don't get along with my brother at all, because he is short-tempered and egocentric and his personnality caused him lots of problems in the company. Well, that happens in any kind of work but things got ugly so quickly and my brother broke the record. He had an argument with almost everyone in his team, his manager and even my uncle, the CEO of the company. 

My father who is in very good terms with my uncle, always keeps giving my brother advices on how to behave but it lasted for 3 years while I am still studying and my parents became so stressed out because each time something happens, he calls them and starts whining about how they were the ones who made him join the company, when in reality it was his decision because, just like me, he wanted to work in Tokyo. Later, my brother told my parents that he will resign, which made my dad furious because he feared that his relationship with my uncle will never be the same because of his foolish son. 

In the end, my brother did not resign and I think that was because he knows that he will never find a better job. Still, he never took responsability of his actions and believes that his actions were always right and everything that is happening is because of his coworkers. My father on the other hand, started cherishing his relationship with my uncle more than necessary. When my uncle comes back for vaccations, my father goes and spends almost all of the day with him and forgets about my mother. He always messes around with my cousin, jokes playfully with him, which he never does with me or my brother. He takes out his stress and rage on my mom, but keeps the smiles and the great attitude to my uncle's family. I still remember the day in summer when my uncle and his wife celebrated their marrige birthday with my father, and right after he returned from the party, he had a fight with my mother for no reason. It was disgusting to watch my old man behaving so cheefully with a different family and not ours, even though we haven't done anything wrong. 

It became so toxic in no time, and I was observing all of this and after I had seen enough, I decided that I am never going to work in my uncle's company, because that will make things worse for all of us. My father might take the ass-kissing to a higher degree, my mother will suffer from her husband behaviour and all of my future career decisions will have to go through my uncle and my father first.

My father always brings up the subject on working in Tokyo with my uncle, and I told him so many times straight away that I want to get my jobs by myself and not because I am the son of the CEO's favorite brother. What's making me feel mad is that I get the impression that his goal is not to guarantee a good career for me but to make my uncle feel that we need him so he can feel good and proud. Unfortunately I confirmed it myself when I had a talk with my father and told him that my dream is to work in Tokyo, and Imagine what he told me ? 

" Well, you know, it's hard out there in Tokyo for you. Also imagine what would your uncle think if you worked there in a different company .."

You see ? He always gives a damn to my uncle's slightest thoughts before giving a damn to his own family, the family that he created. It's not like I will do my uncle any harm by going there and working in a different company, the city has over a 14 millions population to begin with. 

It's really a shame that things were not different. Otherwise I would be there right now, in Tokyo and end of story. But my father and my brother are the main reasons why I am not joining that company anytime soon. I want to walk my own path, with my own skills. 

What do you guys think ? Am I doing the right thing ? Has any of you been in a similar situation ? 

Thank you so much for reading this topic

[Wiseman2]

Apply for jobs in other desirable places. If you get a hired, move there.

No one is holding you back. You're old enough to apply for jobs and live in whatever place you manage to get hired.

You need to ignore the family dysfunction. 

[Batya33]

You do you.  You are an adult.  Self talk yourself to the hilt when those guilty feelings surface.  It could damage your resume if you work for your uncle and your concerns come true -and sounds like you have good grounds to be concerned.

Nothing too similar but it reminded me of when I reconnected with my now husband.  Everyone adored him.  Issue was reconnecting meant I most likely would be relocating hundreds of miles away.  My Aunt and Uncle took me to brunch.  We talked some about my parents getting older and future plans.  They expressed concern that I'd be moving so far away if my then boyfriend and I married. 

Yes, I respected their opinion.  Yes they liked him so very much.  They were worried about my parents (I have a sister and she is sort of close by but had a large family at home at the time).  But I made my decision.

My parents loved my future husband.  Were completely on board with my marrying him and relocating.  And I had to be ok with my relatives having this disapproval (and yes I often sought my aunt and uncle's approval) thinking I should have different priorities.  I was 40.  It was time for me to do my own thing, live my life. 

My husband's cousin told me when our son was so young and my in laws were ill and he had to keep flying back and forth to care for them "he (husband) should be flying there every weekend!"  Um no. I had a young son.  I was new to my new city.  Why should I encourage my husband to be away 3 days a week from us? And be traveling that often?? Again - cousin had a different perspective on family priorities than we did. He was awesome at caring for his parents. He went there around once every two months.  Again I had to accept family disapproval for our adult choices.

This is a good test for you - you are an adult, stand up for yourself, trust in yourself and it's fine -it's great -to make you -your future, your career -a priority!!  Good luck.

[Tinydance]

I actually remember you posting about these situations before and it sounds like this still really bothers you and things haven't improved. As I think I said on your previous post...You can't control how your brother, uncle or father behave. I understand it's frustrating but how they act is really out of your hands. The choices they make or what they do is their decisions unfortunately. And while it's frustrating, it's out of your hands. So I think you should just focus on yourself and your own plans and ambitions. You can try to be a good and supportive son to your mother and to try to get a job in Tokyo or somewhere else on your own.

Your father might be kissing up to your Uncle because he's just grateful that he's given his son this great opportunity. You said yourself that you're from a third world country and there aren't as many career opportunities. Your Uncle gave your brother a great chance to live in Tokyo and have that job. And he puts up with your brother's bad behaviours. Your Dad probably knows that your brother is difficult so he's acting like this out of gratitude towards your Uncle.

You really don't sound happy living at home with your parents. Have you researched what options you have to work in other countries? 

[survivor2021]

@Tinydance The coronavirus made it so difficult to work abroad, espacially with the new Omicron variant breaking out in Europe. I made some research and read some job offers and most of them require that the applicant is already located in the country.

Plus, I have been rejected after posting for some jobs and I think it's because of my lack of experience, as I just graduated. 

I am no longer working 100% from home since I joined this new company that follows hybrid work policy, so sometimes I work from the office in the city and sometimes I work from home. 

[Rose Mosse]

You’re resentful of your father and the way he treats your mother. Your uncle likely has no clue what’s happening in the background. My thoughts are to go to Tokyo if given the choice, get the work experience for a couple of years and apply to other positions afterwards. Tokyo isn’t the final destination. You can move on afterwards.

Ignore your brother. He sounds very spoiled.

[Lambert]

I get the impression that in your culture you're expected to please your family. 

And that makes you feel bad but, the thing is, you have to live your life for you.  It's not really fair of your father to act the way he does and expect you to remain obedient to him. 

It is a two way street.  So my advice is go to Tokyo and find your own way in life.  It's really the only way to be happy and not have regrets in the long run. 

[survivor2021]

@Rose Mosse So you are saying maybe I should work in my uncle's company in Tokyo and then leave after getting some work experience ? I thought about doing that, but that will taint my profile because of my father. He will keep saying that my uncle was the reason I went there in the first place and if it was not for him, I would be nowhere and that I should be eternally thankful to him. I just can't stand that. I am a proud guy, seeking to create the best version of myself and to prove it to everyone because I was always being looked down on since I was a kid by my family, cousins, brother and sister because I am the baby bird of the family. I'm not resentful or anything but since I started going to college, I believe I evolved so much and started becomign independable. I got all of my internships and some freelance jobs by myself and I want to keep going that way. Last thing I want is getting a job through a family relationship and ruining everything I have been working on. 
If my brother somehow finds me a job there, he will keep bragging to everyone that he was the one who found me that job and you know what ? I believe he will still do so even if I found the job by myself in Tokyo. He is that kind of person, the person that wants to talk, brag and show how awesome, smart and crafty he is.
If I go to my uncle's company, my father's behavior will become worse and will cherich my uncle even more.

[Jibralta]

16 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

So you are saying maybe I should work in my uncle's company in Tokyo and then leave after getting some work experience ? I thought about doing that, but that will taint my profile because of my father. He will keep saying that my uncle was the reason I went there in the first place and if it was not for him, I would be nowhere and that I should be eternally thankful to him. I just can't stand that. I am a proud guy

That's a self-defeating attitude. It will not "taint your profile." The next potential employer will have no idea about what's going on inside of your family because that's not something you put on your resume or share in a professional setting. They will look at your resume for your experience, call some professional references, and interview you. They are not going to call your father for the inside scoop on your family dynamic. If you let your father's opinion stand in your way, that's on you.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

I am a proud guy, seeking to create the best version of myself and to prove it to everyone because I was always being looked down on since I was a kid by my family, cousins, brother and sister because I am the baby bird of the family.

So this likely will mean you get in your own way.  You are never going to "prove" this sort of thing to "everyone" including your family.  I'd focus on baby steps, doable goals as opposed to the abstract "create the best version of myself." What does that even mean in actual reality, in day to day life?It sounds like one of those silly social media memes.  What do you do each day that is consistent with who you are? Specific actions that either show that you take care of yourself and/or show a contribution to your work or to someone else?

I also think each day it would be worth it to think of three things that you did that day that are positive or productive and three thing you are appreciative of that happened that day.  Be real.  It's not a comparison game or a "gotta prove to everyone" game.

[survivor2021]

@Jibralta I obviously did not mean that I will bring this out during interviews or anything. Whatever company that is interviewing me will be interested in my experience and skills and of course they won't ask questions about my family 😄.

@Batya33 I'm sorry i think I expressed myself in the wrong way. Indeed, this is so much dramatic. That is not my primary goal. As I mentionned, my dream is to work in a great city and a great place and after doing some research, I found out that Tokyo is one of the best cities to do so. 

Again, the problem here is my father and brother behaviors and if it was not for that, I'd have absolutely no problem working in my uncle's company. On the contrary, i'd be so happy to do so. However, if i do so, and let's suppose that one day I find a better job, or find out that the work environment is not the best for me and decided to switch companies. Here, my father will become so worried about how my uncle will think of me leaving his company and unfortunately, due to his attitude and behavior, I think he won't listen to my reasons because he cares so much about his relationship with my uncle. Once that kind of thinking starts, he will take it out on me and maybe my mother. It's a mess ! 

Another reason why I am trying to avoid this company is the fact that my brother is there. He is the short-tempered type of guy and he won't hesitate to scold me and scream at me and bully me. He will also tell me to not talk to specific engineers and managers in the company because had a an argument with them.

Simply put, I want to detach my professional life from these family matters because, thanks to my brother experience, I found out that my family does not know how to draw limits between family and work.

 

[Jibralta]

35 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

I obviously did not mean that I will bring this out during interviews or anything. Whatever company that is interviewing me will be interested in my experience and skills and of course they won't ask questions about my family 😄.

Yes, that's why I said you are creating your own problems (self-defeating attitude).

Which do you want more:

A) a successful career or

B) to prove your dad wrong?

Right now, you seem to want B more. 

[survivor2021]

7 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

Yes, that's why I said you are creating your own problems (self-defeating attitude).

Which do you want more:

A) a successful career or

B) to prove your dad wrong?

Right now, you seem to want B more. 

Wrong, you are misunderstanding. If my brother learns how to be professional by giving up his bad attitude and if my father understands that I am joining the company as an asset and an engineer instead of seeing it as in my uncle is doing me a favor, then I will join without thinking twice.

[Jibralta]

9 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

Wrong, you are misunderstanding. If my brother learns how to be professional by giving up his bad attitude and if my father understands that I am joining the company as an asset and an engineer instead of seeing it as in my uncle is doing me a favor, then I will join without thinking twice.

So, if they change their opinions, you will have a successful career?

[Rose Mosse]

If there’s any possibility where you feel your family will sabotage your career or not provide adequate references if you work in your uncle’s company, then don’t work there. 

You be the gauge of that.

They appear sincere despite their hang ups and it doesn’t sound like your uncle would not be in your corner unless you severely mess this up or create a rotten reputation for yourself.

You’re moving on to the next chapter of your life. Grow up, let go of the bickering and feuding issues. Your uncle IS indeed doing you a favour if your grades or qualifications aren’t competitive. If they are, let go of feeling insecure.

You have one goal only - finding your financial independence and creating a career for yourself. If that means doing some time at your uncle’s company to gain some experience and then moving onto another opportunity, that’s ok.

[survivor2021]

2 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

So, if they change their opinions, you will have a successful career?

At the very least, it will be a career where my position does not depend on my uncle and father relationship and where there is no extra pressure from my father to 'please' my uncle. That's how I see it.

[Jibralta]

6 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

At the very least, it will be a career where my position does not depend on my uncle and father relationship and where there is no extra pressure from my father to 'please' my uncle. That's how I see it.

But you have the power to free yourself of that right now, simply by ceasing to care.

[survivor2021]

@Rose Mosse No doubt about them being sincere. My father, in the end, has good intensions and that's why he is so obsessed with the idea of both his sons working in such a great company in such a great city. In the end, he wants our success. 

What's interesting is that my uncle did not even offer to me an internship or a job until my father interferred and told him about an internship I rejected in a company 🤣 At the early stages of all of this, I thought that he got fed up with making relatives join and decided to stop it. Yet, my father insists that he can call him and make it happen for me and I was against that.

According to my father, my uncle once said that he respected my decision and said that I am choosing the right path because gaining experience on your own is the best I can do and that's what my brother lacked. 

[Batya33]

17 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Wrong, you are misunderstanding. If my brother learns how to be professional by giving up his bad attitude and if my father understands that I am joining the company as an asset and an engineer instead of seeing it as in my uncle is doing me a favor, then I will join without thinking twice.

(The quote is from the OP -sorry Jibralta!).  This is magical thinking.  This is hugely unlikely to happen.  Also guess what - you don't need to tell yourself that your brother doesn't behave professionally or that your or that your family can't draw limits between family and work (anyway of course they can, they choose not to -and appropriate boundaries are a matter of opinion anyway).  Meaning - you don't have to justify your decision to go out on your own by telling yourself you're "right" because they're "wrong".  You can simply tell yourself that for you -it's a bad fit.  

It's not easy to do this.  I'm very close with my parents, a people pleaser, all of that -I get it.  But it's essential especially when it's not a good fit.  You might need to take the long way around as the (Dixie) Chicks sang. 

I did.  Wasn't easy at all.  Thick skin required.  I was studying for an all-important, career-making grad school exam in the early 90s when my grandfather called me -lived across the street. He wanted dinner at 8pm.  He had dementia.  He'd already had dinner.  I went over there.  Told him he had dinner.  "Make me coffee".  I didn't want to so late at night (caffeine) so I told him it wasn't a good idea and that I also needed to get back to studying.  "How are you going to find yourself a good husband if you can't make a good cup of coffee??"  Within 3.5 months I found out I passed my exam, the same day my grandfather died, RIP, and I met my future husband in that time period too.  He's not a coffee drinker. 

This is lighthearted.  Nothing like your challenges.  But also ike them because even the most well meaning parents and grandparents say stuff and do stuff that gets in our way.  Adulting means sometimes being diplomatic while saying a firm, a simple "No." And moving on without that stomach acid-creating thing of "I'm RIGHT! They're toxic/unprofessional/smelly!!" "Their loss!!".  Don't go there.  Put all that energy into making a life-your life.  You can.