Why Doesn't He Get The Hint!!!????

[macdonner]

I dunno.

 

He might be doing so to relieve his own guilt. - Think this is likely!

 

If you are dismissive to him in private, I say go with it.- This is what I'm doing and what i want, certainly for the moment as I am in no place to be nicey nicey like he wants in private, i.e. texts.

 

Civil in front of the kids. . Absolutely! - Normally i am, i had the slip of being rude with him yesterday which i acknowledge was very wrong. he always messages when he is coming so I can psyche myself up to give the "Fine" or "thanks" answers to his questions face-to-face.

 

Friendly? She doesn't need to be his friend. - Exactly. He wanted to be friends, I agreed initially, changed my mind as too painful. I told him this and that I would be civil. He replied "civil sounds cold". that's all I can offer, certainly for the forseeable future. This is why when he first started asking how I was via text, I told him I'm concentrating on me and all we need to talk about are kids/bills. He replied saying it's good i'm concentrating on me but he didn't understand why we couldn't work on being friends. So even though he knew my boundary, he is still crossing it with personal questions.

 

He doesn't need to wish her well on her trip or add anything else that is remotely personal. - exactly, so why is he?

 

If I read it correctly, most of these things are said over text. - Yes

She has asked him not to. In turn he busts a boundary. - exactly and since I ignore them why is he still doing it, which is what my original post was trying to establish!

 

And. . I am not entirely sure of the dynamic but there is something to be said about the children being involved.

They are learning by watching their parents.

There might be an unsaid message that mom doesn't tolerate being abandoned after 20 years and maybe some things in life are unforgivable.

 

The kids relationship with their dad is entirely separate and you support that with everything you have. That's what's best for the kids.

But mommy being friends with daddy like nothing happened is confusing to children.

It's a tough line to navigate.

I've done it. Not fun.

 

I think some of the responses are a little heavy handed, honestly.

 

 

Bingo! I've added comments on the quote as don't know how to split it up like others do.

[abitbroken]

Do you think he has crossed a boundary I have set for not talking to me via text except about kids/bills by asking me how my trip was etc? i

 

Forget about "boundaries" and consider your children. They need their parents to be civil. not best friends. not lovers. Civil. If he was at your house for a week with the kids while you went on a trip, he is also trying to figure out on his end how to be polite/nice/for the childrens sake without crossing the line. You guys don't communicate well. That is one of the reasons why your marriage fell apart. Blanking him - being outwardly rude is going to make your children say "mommy, why do you hate daddy?", make kids "choose". etc. If someone I barely knew walks in and they had just been on atrip, i ask "Did you like Paris?" or "how was the trip to Arizona" and they say "great, thanks for asking". That's all the convo has to be. All you have to say is "it was great (or busy if it was for work). How did Junior's track meet go?" He is not saying "let's talk about us" or "your hair is pretty". Texting lets you do it in a removed sort of way.

 

If he texted you to give you a movie review or to reminisce, then that's more communication than you want.

 

You need to stop grinding the axe of "i wish he didn't love me at all" - you have no idea. it was way more devastating to me for my ex husband to tell me "i don't love you anymore. i haven't for some time." vs leaving because "its just not working". you feel the whole relationship was a lie vs that it was a true relationship and you guys just couldn't hold it together.

Maybe you wish it was that he fell out of love so none of it was your fault == it takes two to tango and there are two people in the communication department and not just one. Both parties are a percentage at fault.

 

You are going to have him in your life until the kids graduate from high school or college and then again when they have weddings and babies. he is never going to completely disappear from your life. You need to learn how to be civil and it seems that he is up for it, and you want to put more hurt into him - and might end up hurting your kids.

[macdonner]

...Jesus woman, he isn't trying to escape you. He is desperate for you to wake up and fix yourself. I'm sorry but I won't be posting on your threads anymore. Your reaction shows that you are in need of serious, experienced professional help and you aren't ready to go there, so you are just sitting self destructing and playing victim.

 

i'm actually seeing a psychotherapist which is one of the first things I organised after he left as i realised I had to sort myself out. i thank you for your input.

[abitbroken]

i'm actually seeing a psychotherapist which is one of the first things I organised after he left as i realised I had to sort myself out. i thank you for your input.

 

If you EVER want to get back together with him - you need to be civil. You don't want to be "just friends" - but on the other hand - i don't think with your communication problems you had a friendship with your husband to begin with. Maybe after going to therapy for awhile, you can work on being someone your husband wants to try again with - ie, demonstrate that you CAN be someone with empathy and care. The act of becoming a better human being is not "begging". You have to decide whether its more important to hold it against him that he is living seperately because there was no other way to get through to you and life together was miserable or its more important to become unmiserable together. I understand the "communicating about kids only thing" in a girlfriend/boyfriend breakup or if there is a situation where there is no hope of getting back together = finding the person is a bigamist, serial cheater or whatever - but if you WANT to get back together someday - there is a different way of operating. He loves you. he just can't live with you. You can start to work on yourself to fix that dynamic, or you can be divorced. I am now remembering your story and am thinking the case was not that you were already divorced.

[Mari]

i'm actually seeing a psychotherapist which is one of the first things I organised after he left as i realised I had to sort myself out. i thank you for your input.

 

I think it will really help you to let go of your childhood pain by trying to understand people. Think of your mom in her shoes. She had a husband who was barely around and had to take care of kids herself. She didn't get married to be a single mom. There's a good chance she got tired of doing this and her new man demanded that she give up her kids to be with him. A lot of people, when they are deep in love, can make bad decisions like leaving their kids behind. Your dad continued his travel job and left you with aunts and uncles. Your takeaway is that you weren't worth keeping whereas that's not true at all. It was just the situation your parents were in. If your dad had a non traveling job they may have never divorced.

 

In this marriage you've kept this thought that you're not worth staying for. And your reaction based on this thought is always to cut things off. 2 week silent treatments are abnormal. Marriages aren't supposed to last 20 years with either partner doing that. Even now your husband hasn't divorced you but your answer is always to cut things off. Even this post is about why aren't things cut off yet. You aren't supposed to be cut off from him, you still need to talk and it would be better if you actually tried to get back together. Stop blaming him for everything. You blame your parents for making you the way you are and this husband for leaving but as long as you keep doing that you will not grow and change yourself. You will stay this person that is just waiting for things to fall apart to run and if they aren't then you push things towards that through silent treatments.

 

Think of your kids, what your son is going through is half your fault. Own that. Go to this therapy and change yourself and show these changes to your husband. He doesn't believe therapy will help but if he sees you making a new nice pattern for 3 months then he may just want to go for therapy himself.

 

People screw up. Your parents made a mistake thinking the marriage was going to work with your dad traveling. End that mistake by accepting that people aren't just going to leave you. This guy didn't even with 20 years of emotional abuse. Don't let their mistake ripple down to your kids. And pay up with this guy. He put up with you for 20 years with you dropping the relationship to gain the upper hand, he should have a 20 years get out of jail free card with you. You need let his mistakes go to pay for the mistakes you've down up till now. Move towards reconciliation in any form. Good luck to you.

[macdonner]

I think it will really help you to let go of your childhood pain by trying to understand people. Think of your mom in her shoes. She had a husband who was barely around and had to take care of kids herself. She didn't get married to be a single mom. There's a good chance she got tired of doing this and her new man demanded that she give up her kids to be with him. A lot of people, when they are deep in love, can make bad decisions like leaving their kids behind. Your dad continued his travel job and left you with aunts and uncles. Your takeaway is that you weren't worth keeping whereas that's not true at all. It was just the situation your parents were in. If your dad had a non traveling job they may have never divorced.

 

---- My Dad did not have a travelling job for the whole of their marriage, He was in The Royal Air Force and stationed at home (pretty much, only odd deployment here and there) on base until he was discharged for being overweight. After this, he took a job in Oman, perhaps junt under 2 years before my mum decided to run off with an old friend. Many a time after she left when I was in my late teens, she told me that she never loved my Dad and felt obliged to marry him, so I figure whether he was travelling or not has nothing much to do with it. And so as a good mother if a new man demanded you give up your kids, would you???? This tells me all i need to know about my mother and whether she actually wanted to be one.

 

In this marriage you've kept this thought that you're not worth staying for. And your reaction based on this thought is always to cut things off. 2 week silent treatments are abnormal. Marriages aren't supposed to last 20 years with either partner doing that. Even now your husband hasn't divorced you but your answer is always to cut things off. Even this post is about why aren't things cut off yet. You aren't supposed to be cut off from him, you still need to talk and it would be better if you actually tried to get back together. Stop blaming him for everything. You blame your parents for making you the way you are and this husband for leaving but as long as you keep doing that you will not grow and change yourself. You will stay this person that is just waiting for things to fall apart to run and if they aren't then you push things towards that through silent treatments.

 

---i agree something subconscious says I am not worth staying for and it's true cutting things off/out of my life is my thought process. It's a hard habit to shake and hopefully I will with the therapy. I don't blame him for everything, I blame him for not trying everything possible before deciding to call it quits. The fact that he agreed to counselling as we both agreed that we could not fix it ourselves (after years of trying) and then reneging on this is what irks me the most. does he want to get back together? It would appear not, as he mentioned divorce 5 days after leaving. There is only black or white with him; he could have said, i need space so i will move out for 6 months and see how i feel - this did not happen and divorce was so quickly mentioned, so how do you go about asking for a reconciliation? So, in my current state of cutting things off, how do you think I would react to asking him to try again and being rejected? And before therapy I had absolutely no idea that there was a link between my mother leaving and my relationship with my husband (asides the fact that i am very independent). I've never blamed my parents for my relationship, that would be down to the therapist......

 

Think of your kids, what your son is going through is half your fault. Own that. Go to this therapy and change yourself and show these changes to your husband. He doesn't believe therapy will help but if he sees you making a new nice pattern for 3 months then he may just want to go for therapy himself.

 

---- I had not divulged the fact why my son was seeing a psychologist so i think it's a bit unfair of you to assume that it's because of the break up. In fact my son was seeing a psychologist as he has self confidence/self esteem issues which have developed 2 years after moving to a foreign country 6 years ago. He started off well and due to bullying by the other kids as he attends a state school and so has to speak the language, he began to deteriorate in terms of social and academic skills. Of course I had to inform the psychologist he is seeing of what happened in the home setting and from his behaviour in the group sessions, she advised that the break up has affected him and he would benefit from 1-2-1 sessions at the moment so he has an outlet to talk about his feelings privately. As for my therapy, it is expensive and so I cannot attend as often as I would like, but I fully intend to make and show these changes but I know they will not happen overnight.

 

People screw up. Your parents made a mistake thinking the marriage was going to work with your dad traveling. End that mistake by accepting that people aren't just going to leave you. This guy didn't even with 20 years of emotional abuse. Don't let their mistake ripple down to your kids. And pay up with this guy. He put up with you for 20 years with you dropping the relationship to gain the upper hand, he should have a 20 years get out of jail free card with you. You need let his mistakes go to pay for the mistakes you've down up till now. Move towards reconciliation in any form. Good luck to you.

 

-----Again, your last paragraph has a few assumptions. Of course, i'm not perfect or blameless in my behaviour during the marriage but neither is he. There was a period of physical abuse in the early years which he got help for. There was still emotional abuse from him if you want to call it that. he has no patience and he has a temper. In my eyes he has a lot of double standards. He has quite happily had full on shouting matches in front of the children, in front of family, in the street if drunk. If he has had 20 years of hell from me, believe me, I've had it back just as much. Is it healthy? No. Do I know it's not healthy? Yes. Do I want to fix it and make us both better people and partners? Yes, that's why I said to him it was time to get the counselling as we were flogging a dead horse trying to rectify everything on our own. Should we both call it quits and move on? Probably 100%, but after 20 years it's, again, a hard one to break. And "end that mistake by accepting that people aren't just going to leave you" - well.......they have haven't they? My mother TWICE and now my husband, so any tips on how to stop myself from believing that people aren't just going to leave me when the proof is right there would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks for your input. As i still haven't figured out how to do these separate quotes, I am adding in thoughts and information about what you have said underneath each paragraph.

[thealchemist]

I honestly think you are going to have a hard time dealing with him. Period. You are not over all the sh*t he has pulled with you and you are just as toxic with him as he is to you.

 

You were being really rude. He sounds like an @sshole too. I can understand being rude. You also know his games and he sets you off accordingly.

 

You aren't going to be able to ever deal with him truly civilly because you have too much toxicity between you two. It can take a long time for that to go away, if it ever does.

 

I really think you just need to learn to fake civility for your children's sake. They don't see him the way you do, they don't know his games. They just see you two behave this way, no matter what you are doing right in front of them. Kids see more than adults think.

 

Whose fault it was or what he did in your relationship doesn't matter now. It is over. So there isn't an excuse. Just like his behavior isn't an excuse for yours.

 

What matters now is you have children now and you need to not let him get under your skin like this.

[abitbroken]

-----Again, your last paragraph has a few assumptions. Of course, i'm not perfect or blameless in my behaviour during the marriage but neither is he. There was a period of physical abuse in the early years which he got help for. There was still emotional abuse from him if you want to call it that. he has no patience and he has a temper. In my eyes he has a lot of double standards. He has quite happily had full on shouting matches in front of the children, in front of family, in the street if drunk. If he has had 20 years of hell from me, believe me, I've had it back just as much. Is it healthy? No. Do I know it's not healthy? Yes. Do I want to fix it and make us both better people and partners? Yes, that's why I said to him it was time to get the counselling as we were flogging a dead horse trying to rectify everything on our own. Should we both call it quits and move on? Probably 100%, but after 20 years it's, again, a hard one to break. And "end that mistake by accepting that people aren't just going to leave you" - well.......they have haven't they? My mother TWICE and now my husband, so any tips on how to stop myself from believing that people aren't just going to leave me when the proof is right there would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks for your input. As i still haven't figured out how to do these separate quotes, I am adding in thoughts and information about what you have said underneath each paragraph.

 

You can only fix you. He went to counseling and got some help. Now, he is not perfect -- he shouted --- but maybe this man is exasperated because he was trying to change himself to better the marriage you are a stone and brick wall. I noticed that you are quick to turn things around and point out his faults when anyone says anything about ways that you need to change or what you need to look at and it isn't helping you. There is relatively a low level of self reflection.

 

No matter what happens-- whether you divorce or get back together - you HAVE to learn how to communicate with this man to coparent your children or to get back together -- either way -- there is no third option where you can just cut him off and out. You might both need to be very vulnerable here to accomplish things - but again, you can only control you - and you have to stop stonewalling this man. You can be civil.

[abitbroken]

---i agree something subconscious says I am not worth staying for and it's true cutting things off/out of my life is my thought process. It's a hard habit to shake and hopefully I will with the therapy. I don't blame him for everything, I blame him for not trying everything possible before deciding to call it quits. The fact that he agreed to counselling as we both agreed that we could not fix it ourselves (after years of trying) and then reneging on this is what irks me the most. does he want to get back together? It would appear not, as he mentioned divorce 5 days after leaving. There is only black or white with him; he could have said, i need space so i will move out for 6 months and see how i feel - this did not happen and divorce was so quickly mentioned, so how do you go about asking for a reconciliation? So, in my current state of cutting things off, how do you think I would react to asking him to try again and being rejected? And before therapy I had absolutely no idea that there was a link between my mother leaving and my relationship with my husband (asides the fact that i am very independent). I've never blamed my parents for my relationship, that would be down to the therapist......

///////////

 

Its very black and white with you also - you want to put the hurt on him for leaving. he left because the environment was so toxic- -- he could not live with you. He needed to call the time out whistle. He did not divorce you. He just simply separated from you because conversations were going nowhere and nothing was getting nowhere. Him being gone gives you space. He may have said divorce in the heat of the moment - but he has been clear that he loves you, just can't live with you. You DO have a chance to maintain this marriage, but you need to first be able to speak civilly with him - even if its small talk - without all this "anger about him leaving" - the only thing that could have been done was him moving out or you moving out to stop the whirlwind. Maybe if you can get to the point to be civil - to treat him like you would another human being maybe he'd be back on the counseling train, but right now, it seems that he doesn't think you are willing to change. He needs to see you as someone who is at least civil to him - he doesn't want to move back in to the same old problems. Who would want that? Take a baby step. Show him that there is a point in counseling. It may take time for him to see some change. And when you change, people react differently to you. =

[glitterfingers]

OP, I don't want to get into who's right and who's wrong, seems both you and husband have a long history of putting ego ahead of the relationship.

 

Bottom line is this, and I can only contribute this further to advice posts: You need to keep your space for your own sanity (that much I agree with), but you also need to desperately find a way to calm yourself and ask him for reconciliation as soon as possible. If you don't ask soon, you will continue to hold onto resentment and I fear you will never get the chance to save your marriage because the wheels will keep on turning and your resentment won't go away, you'll just have more experiences like this and find more reasons to be angry at him. If this trip has taught you anything, it's that you've not gotten to the point where you can be calm about him being in your life, and those feelings are (in my honest opinion) going to eat away at you and wear you down for a long time to come. You are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy and vicious cycle where your resentment pushes him away, and him leaving fuels your resentment

 

The only solution I see is to ask for reconciliation/counselling, tactfully. Risk getting hurt or risk losing the marriage because your ego and anger were so much bigger than you could manage and you let your chances slip away

 

Which are you going to regret more?

[Mari]

-----.......they have haven't they? My mother TWICE and now my husband, so any tips on how to stop myself from believing that people aren't just going to leave me when the proof is right there would be greatly appreciated.

 

Your mother left once and that decision was no different then her being on drugs. Her leaving the second time was out of no choice, not because she didn't want you. I've seen a similar case to yours, the wife left her husband without taking her kids to marry a new man. The new guy didn't want her kids, her original relationship was past the 7 year mark and well out of the honeymoon phase and she got sucked in by this guy. She left her kids and her husband. 2 years later when the honeymoon period fizzled out she would've had to fight her then husband and her ex for custody of the kids. I don't know if she succeeded or not but it's unlikely because she didn't have custody for two years. After those two years all she could say over and over is that love is like a drug, love is like a drug. And she deeply regretted her actions. Sure it was fun for those two years but after that it's like waking up and realizing you're in this whole new life that isn't that great. I highly doubt she would do that again if she had been given the choice.

 

Your mom follows this pattern. Her marriage was non-existent, so she's this single mom being supported financially. She got an offer, fell in love and made a big mistake. Her driving in front of your house isn't because she doesn't want you. She's doing that because she obviously regrets losing you but her circumstances don't seem to allow her to take you. It may be that she's supported by her new husband and he's threatened that he will leave her if she takes you. And it's highly unlikely your father would take her back after her leaving nor would that be a good situation for her.

 

I know other stories like this where the kids lose one parent because the relationship breaks apart. I knew the dad that lost his son because the mother in law wanted him under his thumb. She caused the divorce through her daughter, he was supposed to get some custody but her side wouldn't let him see his son. Years later when that kid was 30 he found his dad. The dad wanted to catch up and talk but the son is indifferent. He feels that the dad left him when that's not true at all. The dad was the primary care taker before the divorce because the mom was in the hospital several months after childbirth. He loved his son a lot and his son was ripped from him.

 

So overall your mom didn't leave you. The circumstances and her ability to handle those circumstances caused the separation. You could try looking her up and try to talk to her to ask what happened. I think she'd be happy to hear from you.

 

As for your husband, 20 years is a very long time. I didn't know your husband was this abusive too so sorry about that. I guess your belief of what you're worth will lead to you accepting a relationship where you aren't treated as well because you may think that is what you deserve. Regardless, if someone stuck around for 20 years I wouldn't say that's proof that people leave you. If 10 people left you year after year then you could say yeah, people leave you. One person in 20 years is a horrible sample size and insignificant to come to the conclusion that people leave you. In fact, it is the opposite that someone sticks around you for 20 years despite a bad marriage. That's proof that they don't leave.

[Jibralta]

He knows it bothers me and he's antagonistic by nature, so he just does it more.

 

Macdonner, the two of you have a history of contentious communication. It's almost certainly not just you. You need to recognize when you are feeding into it and let go.

 

Why does he keep talking?? He knows i'm not going to respond!!! I hadn't even noticed he stormed off yesterday and even if I did, it's nothing to do with me how he behaves or reacts unless it's to do with kids/bills. He left 4 months ago, surely he gets the hint by now???

 

The answer most likely is: he knows how to push your buttons and make you look crazy. This, in turn, makes you feel bad about acting crazy. It's a vicious cycle. You responded in the exact wrong way to him by being rude. Even if he isn't being passive aggressive, your response was wrong. You have to find a way to exit the battle.

[macdonner]

Thanks for all of your input. I have been thinking about all that has been said in this post and it would appear that if I don't mention reconciliation very soon then the chance of it happening will slip away. Thinking about what I need, I need therapy and time. And so if that means that the chance slips away meantime then that's just the way it will have to be. I can't fix myself overnight just like I didn't have these traits and behaviours overnight. It would also appear that me and my husband are better off ending the relationship as it is very toxic to both of us. I know we have had a very rocky marriage (not all the time but the negatives stand out more if there are more of them don't they) so maybe it would be best for both of us to have the chance to move on no matter how hard it might be.