Separation/Divorce after 20 Years

[bwknight]

Seen everything on the list but sex

[chitown9]

Seen everything on the list but sex

Sex is on the list.

[bwknight]

My point was she's used everything so far but sex

[bwknight]

Just a quick update. Trying to get through the holidays with as little drama as possible. She said she wanted to find a counselor of her choosing for us to see. Two weeks later she still hasn't found one. Claims to be playing phone tag with a couple. Whatever! We had been talking about refinancing the house before all this started (we have about 125K in equity). She's pushing that again (house in my name only). There are some repairs needed, but she's also talked about paying off some items, like her car. I think she wants to pay down her debt and get her hands on a chunk of money. Horrible to think the worst of someone all the time but that's what's left. Everyone, including her sister, are telling me to move out and get on with my life. Even without all the details they see this is all about her. Anyway, I hope everyone here has a great holiday.

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Do what is best for you and the children ONLY. She has caused all this so she can live with the consequences. As far as thinking the worst goes. She has pretty much shown her colors so you shouldn't feel bad about not trusting her.

 

Don't move out until you have some sort of legal agreement in place. There is no need to refinance a house that you are about to sell anyways is there?

 

Stay strong and don't fall for her poor me routine.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

I'm not sure I want to sell the house since it's in my name only. Kids don't want it sold. We'll see. I've been told by attorney to stay patient at this point as the wheels are bound to fall off the fantasy soon and not to move out as they could been seen as giving her the house. Patience is hard at this point because I just want it done. He's also suggested going to counseling with her as that's seen as being the cooperative husband. Meanwhile to keep documenting the not so great wife's stuff.

[lostandhurt]

If you want to keep the house then she needs to move out not you. If keeping the house is what you want to do then make your plans around that but of course wait to refinance.

 

There is no reason you cannot go to counseling and like your lawyer said it makes you look like you are trying plus it may just help the whole process.

 

It is really hard to hold your tongue and stay on the high road but take it from me it is well worth it later on. Keep your distance, don't question her about anything (she will just lie) and stay on your plan. The holidays are past now so time to move forward. If she doesn't have an appointment at least on the books with a counselor in a week or so you should move forward with the filing.

 

I hope you are right about the house because where I live community property doesn't require her name to be on the title, just the fact that you were married when the payments were made and your monies comingled is enough to make it community property and thus half hers.

 

Stay busy, have fun with the kids and take good care of yourself. This thing is reaching the beginning of the end...

 

Lost

[bwknight]

It appears she has a therapist lined up. I saw email working on times. I'm not letting my guard down but I've known this woman for over 20 years. There is a change the last week. It's like the fantasy life isn't satisfying anymore. Not on phone as much, interacting with kids more. She has always had a short attention span even with jobs. She'll throw herself into something but it gets old and she loses interest. The question is, what's next then? and maybe that comes up in counseling. This has taken such a toll on me I'm only thinking in terms of how good it is for the kids if she's coming back to reality. I think too much damage has been done to me at this point.

[lostandhurt]

Do not let your guard down just yet. This thing has been going on a very long time and if she is serious about repairing the damage she has caused it will take at least that same amount of time and counseling. It shouldn't take the threat of divorce and poverty for her to want to fix this because you know as well as I do that as soon as things are going smoothly she will try and relive the fantasy in some other way to escape her life.

 

If you look at this factually what she did was abandon the family to live out a sexual fantasy life with no responsibilities, no remorse and no consequences (or so she thought) leaving you and the children behind. The only differences from someone that runs off and does this and then wants to come back when the whole thing fizzles is that she used the house as home base for her fun and vanquished you to the basement.

 

If there is not serious therapy and very good progress with tons of honesty from her this will happen again within a year.

 

The children getting their mother back is of course a very good thing but that does not mean you have to stay married to her. They can have their mother back AND have their father back without having all this crap on his shoulders. There comes a point where it is simply to much to come back from in a honest way where you are not lying to yourself just to keep the family together. You have been beaten down pretty badly Knight but you will be okay no matter what you chose to do.

 

Let the counseling run it's course and the answers you seek will appear if you are paying close attention and not clinging to any little scrap of hope she may throw out there to stop the divorce. You say you know her but she also knows you and can see you are basically done with her and she is trying to get you back from the edge. Her motives will show and you will see if she is truly genuine or not after a few sessions.

 

While you are waiting for the first appointment take some time to re-read this thread and write down some of the things that have transpired and the things she has said. They are fair game in the counseling session and she NEEDS to explain why she did what she did and said what she said.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

I still see possible signs that this is a possible delay tactic or her desire is to have a possible Cuckold type relationship. If that's the case she really is overestimating her control in our relationship. I have no intention of funding that type of marriage.

[lostandhurt]

It will be interesting to see who shows up to the session, your wife or the person she has turned into.

 

Her history is the key to all this. Loses interest in things quickly, can't hold a job for long, jumps in deep to things and just as fast drops them, no direction in her life and on and on. In a way you have enabled these traits by supporting her financially and now that all may disappear and she is getting a dose of the real world. If nothing else we all should be hopeful that she can get help with what ever is causing her to be so impetuous and always seeking out things to make her happy.

 

Keep us posted and good luck

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Had counseling session last week. Predictable that first week was reliving the horror of being married to me for 20 years I listened, was respectful and didn't feel the need to dispute every detail. Basically gave a "hey, I'm not saying I don't have faults but I've always been willing to work on them", but made it clear that I have reasons to move on as well. Meaning divorce or not divorce isn't just her decision. Wife liked counselor and wants to continue on a weekly basis. This week I plan on talking about what the goals are and timeline. I feel months have been wasted already and not planning on wasting much more.

[Jeffbobo]

Had counseling session last week. Predictable that first week was reliving the horror of being married to me for 20 years I listened, was respectful and didn't feel the need to dispute every detail. Basically gave a "hey, I'm not saying I don't have faults but I've always been willing to work on them", but made it clear that I have reasons to move on as well. Meaning divorce or not divorce isn't just her decision. Wife liked counselor and wants to continue on a weekly basis. This week I plan on talking about what the goals are and timeline. I feel months have been wasted already and not planning on wasting much more.

 

Knight,

Looks like she pulled out the little black book. The one that has every negative detail in it for the last 20 years. I'd say that if there aren't more pages in the little white book than there are in the little black book, then you'll be wasting many more months and her reasons for sticking around are really for just using you as a safety net. That little black book is her means to justify her bad behavior and put it on you so that when she *does* make her exit, she's at least justified in her own mind and for sure, she'll share it with others to make her case.

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

I am sure you expected this, if not we expected it. The re-write of history to justify their actions is as common as the sun coming up every morning.

 

If the counselor asks you why you are there simply answer truthfully. "I am here to decide if I am going to divorce my wife or not" Since these sessions can make your head swim write down some things you want to cover during the session and take your list with you. You can even give it to the counselor so they can run down the list and mediate the situation. This is not the time to be a passenger, you need to be in the driver seat.

 

Like Jeff mentioned she used all her ammunition in the first session and will likely just restate them in different ways but if she doesn't admit that those things do not justify cheating, lying, being verbally abusive and vindictive then all is lost. Also as Jeff mentioned if she cannot admit that as a whole the marriage has been pretty good then your marriage is doomed.

 

For them to admit what they did was a horrendous betrayal and actually feel true remorse is almost unheard of.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Yes. The common line I've heard is "we were separated", meaning anything goes. The problem with that argument is I asked specific questions and was lied to. Being separated doesn't make lying okay. And why would I believe her now. I'm making it clear that either we air it all or there's no moving forward possible.

[lostandhurt]

I am sorry but you were and are still married so being separated is total BS! That is one more excuse by her. Did you ever have a conversation where the rules of this separation were defined? I don't recall you mentioning that in any of your posts.

 

It is kind of like telling your wife you are going out of town for 3 days on a business trip and she agrees and when she finds out you cheated while gone you remind her "but you agreed to the business trip"

 

Ask her straight out in the session when you both agreed you would be seeing other people and having sex during the "separation"

 

Lost

[bwknight]

No, there was never a conversation defining the separation. And of course it's BS and she knows that, and its not going to fly. Again, she's going to have to get real and lay it all on the table, and take her lumps. Time to put her big girl pants on.

[bwknight]

Counselor wanted 1 on 1 with us so wife had hers this week and I have mine this week. I made it clear that everything is on the table and she agreed. Guess we'll see how open she's been this week as I'll be laying out the last 6 months of her behavior. Once all the crap is out there it will be interesting to see if the dialogue changes.

[lostandhurt]

Don't get your hopes up. I used to be surprised hearing the stories that came out of therapy or counseling sessions. Most of the time it was like two totally different relationships were being described by each person. The factual one and then the fantasy one.

 

She may have convinced herself so well that she actually believes it now or simply cannot bring herself to admit any of it out loud.

 

Be wary of her saying what she thinks both of you want to hear.

 

It was more than just interesting when I sat in that session with my wife and listened to the words coming out of her mouth. In my mind I kept trying to make excuses or come up with reasons or an illness that was causing her to think that way but in the end I had to accept it.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Hey, I'm with you. And I'm not expecting earth shattering transparency but it would be nice.

[waffle]

I am amazed that staying married/getting a divorce is even a question at this point. Just amazed.

[bwknight]

I'm not sure it's a question either. Unfortunately I don't have all the hindsight most here have and I've got kids that need to be walked through this as well. It's certainly not going to hurt to see a counselor together. If nothing else maybe I get some answers. I think everyone on this site has probably wanted that at some point.

[lostandhurt]

So how did the counseling session go?

 

Take your time but remember you need to protect yourself and get the fairest settlement you can for yourself. Remember you will more than likely be doing 90% of the heavy lifting as far as parenting goes after the divorce and will need the resources to do that.

Right now her fantasy controls her thoughts and reasoning, wait to long and you may have to deal with a totally different personality...

 

Lost

 

PS I wanted answers like you and all of us did and I got them, it didn't change a thing. I was still dealing with a cheater, liar, selfishness on a scale you couldn't imagine and someone that was only focused on the fantasy.

[bwknight]

It's been let's say interesting. Took a couple of weeks to wade through the bad husband for 20 years crap. It has surprised her how much I know about her recent behavior and her go when cornered is anger. This resulted in a knock down drag out last week. But I was heard Know that we've established I'm not stupid it has created some communication but My response is let's talk about it in counseling. It's obvious that's going to be uncomfortable but it's the best chance of getting honest answers. I have no illusions that knowing the truth changes anything but I deserve the truth anyway,

[Jeffbobo]

Knight,

What does more of the truth gain you? More importantly, to what end? If you have some fantasy that she’s going to spill her guts, tell you everything, then confess her undying love and beg for forgiveness at which point you’ll tell her that you forgive her, all will be well and you’ll both live happily ever after... If that’s what you’re hoping for in the truth then you’re living in a fantasy world. Also if you’re hoping for the truth to rub it in her face and attempt to somehow hurt her as bad as she has you, then that’s wrong as well. You already know the truth well enough. And so does she. Only in her mind, it’s justified for you, in her words, being a bad husband for 20 years. The truth will set you free. And you already know enough of the truth.