VHSshowdown...you are right my friend!!!

[chai714]

Blue, I fear I may be too late, but if not, do this, wait to call her until tomorrow or the next day.

 

Keefy is right on here. She's coming your way, so let her chase some. When she stops chasing some, give her hope by calling her back. I also agree that you should wait a day (or 2) to call back. Don't text her back though. In fact, ignore that text altogether.

[OUTOFTHEBLUE9]

Don't worry guys, haven't called or texted her back yet at all. Have been having a busy day, but have been thinking about it. I don't want her to get the impression I don't care enough to call her back. I think she has school until 9, so maybee I will call later when she is at school, and leave that message.

[chai714]

I think she has school until 9, so maybee I will call later when she is at school, and leave that message.

 

I think it would be better to let her sleep on it tonight. If you must, call her tomorrow sometime.

[keefy1972]

Yes Blue, DO NOT call her tonight!! Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. As Chai said, if you must, sleep on it!!

[OUTOFTHEBLUE9]

If you say not to then I won't. I feel like I want to get my presense known at her new place. It's weird, but I do. I know how I feel about my new place, and I don't want memories of her here yet. Once I have memories, and stuff from this place, then its hard to move on. Same goes for her, I feel.

 

Its been 24 hours since she called, and told me to call her back. All day since she texted me last. I don't think she will be contacting me again. I feel like I am being rude as I know I wouldn't like it if she treated me this way.

 

I need some reasurance that I am doing the right thing, and why! I kinda feel crumby for ignoring her.

[keefy1972]

You aren't "ignoring" her Blue. You are simply giving her the perception that you have more going on in your life than worrying about her. This shows strength and independence. Without that, you have zero chance with anyone. You have to make her think that she does face the possibility of losing all of the attention you provide at any moment. If she thinks you will always be there waiting for her, she is going to take all of the sweet time she wants in getting in touch with you. Why?? Because she knows you will be there. You see absense breeds an air of mystery about you. Absolutely necessary. You really need to understand this concept. How is she ever going to truly miss you if you are always there when SHE wants you to be??

[keefy1972]

I put myself in a bad position yesterday and I feel pretty good about how I recovered from it. Well, she came over again today at work, to pick up some things that she had to take back to her office, and when she was leaving I was going to lunch, so I offered to give her a hand and carry some things for her. We get to her office and only her boss is there. So we stand out in the hall talking for a few minutes and her boss walks out. I say to her that it was nice spending some time with her yesterday. She agreed and added that she told me before that I would see her more now that she has this new job. I said, "yeah, still not as much as I would like". "Actually, I want to go out on a date with you". She stood there silently staring at me with a half-cocked smile on her face. After about a minute I said, "Is that all I get?? Just a silent stare?" She said, "Well, I dont really know what to say". So I said, "Oh, so you are still seeing him"? She slowly nodded her head. Told her I had thought that since she was doing so much stuff on her own, that maybe she wasn't. Isnt normal for someone to be flying solo so often when seeing someone. She nodded in agreement, like she understood how I could think this. But I said, "So you are still seeing him, wasting your life away". She kind of fidgeted a bit without saying anyhting and I continued, "of course, that is only my opinion". Then I say, "Sorry, I see I've made you uncomfortable, I will go so you can go back to work". She said, "Come in here" and backed into her office which was now completely empty. I said, " I was gonna watch you walk away" and smiled. She said, "Well, I was just going to give you a quick hug". I said,"Ok, I can do that." We hugged. While holding her I said, "You smell so good". and she said, "So do you".

 

Then she said that, "If Xxx and I dont work out, I will tell you". Then she asked if I would hate her if things did work out with them. I said no, "How can I hate you when I care so much about you?" "You have got to let go of the past XXXXX. I know I have acted, a few times, as if I hated you but that was a very long time ago. Like another lifetime ago. I know you dont think so, but I am a strong guy, " she interrupted me and said, "I KNOW you are a very strong guy". I said, "NO, you think I am weak, and will be totally destroyed if things work out with you and him. I got news for you, I will be fine no matter what". Then she asked if we could not talk about it and I said we NEEDED TO. She said we always do, and I said that we don't because we hardly ever TALK anymore. Then she said something about not liking talking about it at work. I said, "I will get going so that you can get back to work". She said, "Im just not comfortable having this conversation here at work, you understand dont you"? I said, "Yes, and I dont ever see you anwhere except for work, but oh well, what are you gonna do. See ya later". Turned and walked away and I heard her say, "I'm sorry XXXXX". I took a few more steps on my way out and heard her say, "HEY..."

Pissed off as I was, I turned around, walked back to her, and said, "Yeah, what's up?" She asked me, "Are you upset now"? I said, "No, Im not, so stop thinking I am going to get upset all of the time". Said see ya again and left hearing her say it back to me on the way out. I was boiling a little on the inside, but I am so proud of how I NEVER let her see it. My tone was perfectly calm and friendly the ENTIRE time. She did tell me that she played tennis last night, is playing tonight, and is going to her grandmother's on the other side of the state for the weekend. See when she volunteers these things to me without my asking, it makes me feel as if she WANTS me to know she isnt going to be with the old man. I know I made a mistake in telling her she was "wasting" her life away with him. But I am very proud of how well and friendly I was. I have regained so much of my control that it is awesome. I have decided that she is probably trying to prepare me for the news that they will be staying together, so I have decided to leave her alone for good. No more emails, texts, or calls. I will say hello if I see her at work, but that is it. I can't be "just" her friend. I just cant do it as much as I want to. It's too much work to keep her from knowing how badly I want her back. Just too much.

What do you make of all of this??

 

Funny thing is that now I think I am realizing that maybe she does ONLY want to be friends with me and isn't interested in anything more than that. It just makes me sad that I have been lying to her all of this time by saying and trying to act as if I am ok with that. As much as I want to be, I really am not ok with it at all.

[vhshowdown]

Blue, it isnt considered ignoring her man. It is just so you can get yourself together, and be strong, and be strong for her, if and when you get a second chance. Keefy, good last post man. Very true... she misses you, I think this is a given. But right now, you need to get your emotions under control, or otherwise she will walk all over you.

 

Well, I talked to H. yesterday. She called me at home and I answered not knowing it was her. We talked and she told me she got her car back, and got a ticket already, and lost her job, and got her job back, etc.... drama drama drama!! Real down. So, I was like ya I just got off the phone with my realtor (who is another ex gf) and I am in the home buying mode...

Then I was like ya, I just got back from VEGAS, and had a great time, saw Coldplay, gambled, got a suntan, met all kinds of people, etc.... and she was like you suck!!!

 

Then she says let me call you back, so she calls me on my cell phone, hangs up, and calls me back on my home phone. Then she goes well there is my home phone number on your cell phone. I didnt say anything. Right now, I am not sure what she wants, and I know she doesnt know where I stand with her either. So then I told her "we" were going house shopping the next 2 weekends. And she was like who, you and your cat? No, me and my realtor (I think she knows my ex gf is my realtor, Im not sure). She got real quiet after that... So then I told her I gotta run to the post office, cya.....

 

So what do you guys think? Did I do good. I actually feel good today, I dont really feel the need to call her either.

[vhshowdown]

keefy, I think the convo was ok, but it is still way to early in getting back in her life, which you are now, to let her know what you are thinking. Get back in her life, dont bring up dude, or the fact you want to date her again, etc... Get back in her life and SHOW her what it is about you she is missing!!

[keefy1972]

Haha...that was pretty awesome V. She don't know what to think and that is perfect. You are really at a crossroads I think. You are now where you really need to figure out if you want her back at all. You seem to waver from day to day and I think that is a good thing in the healing aspect. I notice that you aren't posting everyday anymore either. As much help as you are to others, I still have to believe that that is a good thing too. You seem to be on solid footing. A place we are all aspiring to be sooner or later.

[keefy1972]

And V, why arent you signed on IM this morning??

[codaaurora]

Good morning my boys...

 

BLUE I hope you waited until atleast today to call her. What Keefy said is exactly what I would have said. Give it some time. I know you feel crappy for not calling her right back, but think of it this way, has she called you back instantly every single time you've called? Most likely not. Either way, that is not the point, the point is that you have a life now and need to lead it, not make time to call her. (Whether that's true or not).

 

VHS You naughty boy! Seriously, good job, you kept it light, made sure she knew you were busy and having a good time and didn't let her drama bring you down. More than likely, unless she's always been like this, the increased drama your seeing is her effort to get your attention and sympathy. Girls are taught that boys that care want to "fix" our problems, girls are also used to getting sympathy and attention in increased amounts (from their gf's atleast, but we tend to be stupid and think it will work with the boys too) when their is a bunch of drama in our lives. Especially for the younger or immature women. Older women or more mature women, tend to see life as an opportunity to get past all the drama and will avoid it like the plague when they can. You did an excellent job tho.

 

KEEFY I know that I already went over this with you, but I thought I would put it up here so you can see it for later. Basically though, she is confused, missing you and still has feelings for you. If she was so into him, she would have told you she has every intention of making it work with him, instead of telling you she would let you know if it doesn't work out. I mean, why say that if she thinks it will? Because she doesn't think it will and is getting your reaction. Also, granted, friends tell other friends stuff, but I don't tell you guys what I wear to work or play (ie: wearing a short black tennis skirt, with a yellow t and no STRIPES). I also dont' keep you guys posted on my every move over the weekends. Why? Cause I'm not interested in you guys romantically and it doesn't cross my mind that you would want to know that stuff. BUT if I was, I WOULD want you to know, to know if I'm with a guy or not with a guy, what I'm wearing, what I'm experiencing, listening to a song and telling you about it, blah blah blah. She's doing all that stuff Keefy. Give her some more time, don't totally give up on her, but CONTINUE LIVING YOUR LIFE. I'm so very proud of you and the way you handled that situation. Now stick on that path okay?

 

CODA: UPDATE Well guys, I sent that email on Sunday and haven't heard from him since Monday (05/02/05, when he called and left me a message that his mother had heard from his younger brother who we were worried about, I didn't call him back, but sent him a text saying thank you). To be honest, I'm getting very sad. A part of me is screaming that I made a mistake, that he will never call me again, that I need to atleast talk to him and that if he brings that subject up THEN I can just hang up on him, but not to loose contact with him, out of sight out of mind, your going to loose him, blah blah blah. But then another part of me, one that's a little bigger than the other part, says calmly that it's tired of being disrespected. That K needs to see that i mean business this time and that I need to see that I mean business this time. That if K can't treat me right, there WILL be someone out there who will. I CAN be happy again. I WILL find love again. I will NOT end up the old lady with cats, although in my case it would be fish and guinea pigs. Anyway, I wanted to be honest with you about my feelings, I don't want you (any of you) to think that I'm perfectly okay with this. I'm human and I miss my ex. I am afraid of loosing him forever, but I'm even more afraid of loosing respect for myself.

[OUTOFTHEBLUE9]

Ex called this morning as soon as I got to work. One of the first things was, did you get my message, how come you didn't call back? I said it was late when I got it, and I was busy yesterday. Said I was gonna call today sometime (probably shouldn't have). I guess she texted me yesterday morning because she woke up from a bad dream about me. She wouldn't specify what was so bad, but said she woke up shaking. Not long into the conversation, she asks me if I am going home this weekend (to my parents place for mothers day). I said I wasn't sure and asked why. She wants me to come out to her place on Friday night on my way home to help her with something. This time I seriously feel like this one is an excuse to see me. This is what she wants. She wants me to either drive behind or driver her car from her school. It broke down there. Anyone could do this for her. I didn't say I would do it, I said maybee, we'll see. She whinned a little bit, "common, say yes". Its like a 400km drive for me. Any thoughts?

[codaaurora]

She wants me to come out to her place on Friday night on my way home to help her with something. This time I seriously feel like this one is an excuse to see me. This is what she wants. She wants me to either drive behind or driver her car from her school. It broke down there. Anyone could do this for her.

 

Here's a thought. SHE IS USING YOU.

 

This time I seriously feel like this one is an excuse to see me.

 

Are you kidding yourself? Are you TRYING to kid me? Read this next sentence and you'll have your answer...

 

She wants me to either drive behind or driver her car from her school. It broke down there.

 

This says it all BLUE. I mean, she might legitimately miss you, but she still expects you to be her beck and call guy. She still thinks you will cave in and help her. You need to NOT DO THIS. She has parents, she is seeing someone else yes? Even if no, YOU ARE NOT HER BOYFRIEND anymore and it's by HER choice. So what, your going to let her have her cake AND eat it too?

 

Look man, you need to tell her that you spoke with your parents and decided that it might be best for you to go this weekend being that it's Mother's Day and that you hope she is able to get her car taken care of. Then tell her, RIGHT AFTER THAT, that you have to run, you have a meeting, and get off the phone!! No more than a 2-3 min conversation. I'm serious. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR YOURSELF. This girl is serious ticking me off, she knows she can work you and IS.

 

Ultimately, you answered the whole problem in the last sentence...

 

Anyone could do this for her.

 

I know you want to help her, I know that you think that if you don't you won't ever win her back, that she'll be mad or hate you for not helping her, but trust me, it doesn't work that way. Look at me, I was foolish enough to help K out three times in less than 2 weeks and he STILL treated me like dirt by brining up a subject over and over again when he KNOWS that it hurts my feelings as I TELL him it does as he's doing it. Get mad BLUE, get indignant! You deserve too! Do me a favor, walk to your front door and bring in your welcome mat, cause your not going to be that way anymore OKAY???

[keefy1972]

Blue...of course it's an excuse to see you. It is ALSO a way to get something out of you. Quit being stepped on!! She may be using this as an excuse to see you, but instead of justifying it by admitting to herself that she misses you, she is using you DOING something for her as a way to justify it. You need to stop letting her do that. MAKE her admit that she misses you by just asking to see you. It is not so hard to do that, but if she don't get to where she can do that, she is NEVER going to allow herself to be involved with you the way you want. Why not?? Because you are being a puss and honoring her every wish. No woman wants or will ever want someone that will always bow down to their highness. What does she do for you that makes it so she deserves all of these favors from you? From what I can see, nothing. Go back, read your posts here, and realize that with her every interaction with you always ends up in her asking for you to do something for her. I dont care if it is an excuse for anything, it is just not a healthy, balanced relationship. THAT, my friend, is what you need to address.

 

Coda, glad to hear from you and hope you are feeling better, and thank you for the continued encouragement. Glad you are feeling so determined in maintaining your self respect. Remember he is in the anger stage, but he will be back. You have way too much history for him to discard you so easily. I dont care how stubborn you say he is. He is also human...I think. LOL You continue to not give yourself enough credit. Hell, I have only known you a few months and you have made quite an impact in my life. I can only imagine the impact you have made on his in over 9 years. Keep your head up and know that you are fighting for what you deserve out of him. Not for him. You did the right thing and dont doubt that for a second. I know you wouldnt want to live the rest of your life getting crapped on. Stay strong, brighter days are ahead. I promise.

[codaaurora]

Keefy,

 

What you just said was so sweet and kind, it made me cry and being that I'm at work, I had to get up and run to the bathroom, thank god they thought I was just sick! LOL

 

Seriously, you have no idea how good that made me feel. By saying that I made that much of an impact on you for the short time that I've known you, helped me to realize that I truly did have a huge impact on K, whether he wants to realize it now or not. I truly was his rock. He went to me for everything, I was his Dictionary, his confidant, his guide for life and living, his advisor and his friend. Without me, he will eventually see that. Thank you Keefy. Thank you so very very much.

[codaaurora]

BLUE

 

MAKE her admit that she misses you by just asking to see you. It is not so hard to do that, but if she don't get to where she can do that, she is NEVER going to allow herself to be involved with you the way you want.

 

I have to agree with Keefy on this, he hit the nail on the head of what I was trying to say.

 

I'm sorry if I was harsh on you man, I just don't want to see a friend get run all over by someone he obviously cares so much for. Don't let her do to you what I let my ex do to me. Keefy and V and my co-workers kept telling me over and over to stop giving in to him, stop being there for him, stop being his fall back, his free support and I just wouldn't get it into my head and thought that by being there for him would show how much I cared. BUT guess what? It didn't. He didn't come running back to me. He actually asked me for advice on how to get dates with other chicks!!!! AND THEN got mad when I wouldn't as I wasn't being a friend and that I just wanted to be vindictive and see him fail. I mean HELLLOOOO Coda!!! How much more abuse was I going to take? And that's just what it was BLUE, it was abuse, a form of mental/emotional abuse and I was eating it and asking for more. Don't be me Blue. Take our advice now. We're doing it for your own good.

[keefy1972]

No thanks required. I am only stating what is completely factual. Yes he WILL see this and it will probably happen much sooner than you expect. People have a way of developing serious dependencies on others and it is clear that he DID have a strong one on you. As you said, he came to you for an awful lot. Waaaaay too much for him not to notice or miss while it's gone. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you get some kind of correspondence from him soon and in it he will, if he is as stubborn as you say, try to act as if nothing has happened. He will be charming and funny, all of the things that made you fall in love with him and never acknowledge his mistakes. Don't give in to this. He is realizing his dependency. Make him wallow in it enough to muster up an apology...or at least a promise to respect you.

[codaaurora]

Keefy, It'll be hard to do, as no one can charm me better than he can. He always was able to do that. But I know with the help and strength of you guys and my friends and family, I will persevere.

 

Oh, and I am feeling better today. Tired but better.

 

How are you doing today? Feeling better about what we talked about yesterday?

[keefy1972]

To be honest, I really dont know what to feel. I am so conflicted in that area that it makes my head spin. I cant help but wonder if yesterday's events were those of progress or recession. Did the appearance of remaining calm have a positive effect? Did it have a negative one? Did it have one at all? I guess time will answer those questions and the ones I have about what to do next. As I told you, after an episode like that yesterday, I would usually write her a long email or call her and have a conversation in which I would, a. Confess my undying love and devotion. b. Apologize for bringing it up, making her uncomfortable, and for the "wasting your life away" comment. c. Tell her I have had it and can't take it anymore. This is the first time I will have followed up such a conversation with what seems to be indifference.

 

When I hear from her again, what will it be like? Is she going to mention that conversation? Is she going to ignore it like it never took place? Is she going to contact me at all?? So I guess the best way to describe how I am feeling is apprehensive.

[codaaurora]

a. Confess my undying love and devotion.

 

She knows it already and by you not doing it this time it's going to make her wonder if she is losing you.

 

b. Apologize for bringing it up, making her uncomfortable, and for the "wasting your life away" comment.

 

By not apologizing anymore for your opinions, which by the way, you are ALLOWED to have as the last time I checked this is a free country. You should NEVER have to apologize for your opinions unless they are nasty, hurtful and obviously untrue. This one was none of those. It's going to freak her out when you don't apologize as she and I (now) both know that you "just won't rest until this is settled".

 

c. Tell her I have had it and can't take it anymore. This is the first time I will have followed up such a conversation with what seems to be indifference.

 

BWAH HA! She is going to be scratching her bottom and going ...."HUH?" when she sees that your not doing any of your tried and true, regulation, normal operating proceedure stuff! I almost wish I could be there to see her face! LOL

 

When I hear from her again, what will it be like? Is she going to mention that conversation? Is she going to ignore it like it never took place? Is she going to contact me at all?? So I guess the best way to describe how I am feeling is apprehensive.

 

I know that it's going to be hard for you to wait and see what comes out of this. Truuuust me I know. I'm feeling your pain on that right now hon, but what you need to rememeber is that what you did NEEDED to be done ok? You needed to shock her, rock he world a little bit, I personally would have waited a little longer, given her lots of great, fun, RECENT memories of you before pulling that stunt, but hey....they ain't married yet right? So who says that you can't do it again and this time DO IT RIGHT???

 

Anyway, you know I am here for you Keefy. Anytime.

[OUTOFTHEBLUE9]

I have to say this first. Your all very harsh.

 

BUT, after reading it a coupe times I think you are right, and that is what I need for your point to get accross to me. I truly believe that it is an excuse to see me, but I want her to realise that she wants to see me, and not make excuses. I don't know if that will ever come, because that is her personality I think. I read one of the free tacits from link removed, and it sticks out in this situation. About how the subconscious makes a decision and the brain makes excuse to justify the decision. It was something like that. So her subconscious wants to see me, and her brain is making excuses why she needs to see me. Partiallly may have to with having to come up with excuses to tell her parents why she needs to see me, else they would flip, and not let her go. Even tho she is well old enough, and has been on her own, to make her own decisions.

 

A part of me wants to go to see her, as she doesn't have a car to come see me, and help her out. But another part can't justify driving 2 hours out of my way to help her out, when in the past recent visits, nothing good has came, actually quite the opposite.

 

Heres another problem, sorta a personallity flaw in myself of which she is aware, and will probably make you not like her even more. I have a problem where I hate to say no, usually can't. She saw this with my friends, especially one in peticular. She would always say how she hated it that I always did things for him, and he was using me. If it was picking his GF up at another school and droping her off at home, while he was at work, or helping him technically computer or car related at 2am, I would. But that is just the way I am, I help people, and I don't ask for anything in return. But I guess that is where this is different because I do expect something in return. (things are just coming out as I'm typing, bare with me). I guess if its just a friendship that I want, then I keep doing these things for her and not expect anything in return.

 

I'm a shy person, that hates rejection, doesn't hate a single person, I get along with every person I have ever met, don't have a single person that hates me (that I am aware of) and if there was someone I would dye. So what I am getting at is... I am affraid she will hold it against me.

 

I don't know what todo. But I am feeling like tomorrow night isn't a good night for me anyways.

 

At what point can I talk to her on the phone for more than 2-3 minutes OR unblock her from MSN, or do things for her? I don't think she will just wake up and say "I'm going to dump my current BF and go back to Blue, even though he won't talk to me for more than a minute, I don't see him online anymore, doesn't respond to my calls or texts, and won't help me out when I am in a bind!" This is really confusing.

 

Sorry for the long post, just getting my thoughts out!

[keefy1972]

Buddy, the point of it all is, you have got to make her understand that with all of the good things that you have going for you, you ARE NOT just waiting around for her to call or ask you to do something. She needs to know that you have a life that doesn't revolve completely around her. You give her too much credit man. She is not being completely fair with you. She knows you have a hard time saying no as it is, pile your known feelings for her on top of that, and what you have is one person TAKING ADVANTAGE of someone else. I'm sorry, I know you have strong feelings for this girl, but you have to open your eyes to this.

 

There will come a time that it is ok to have a conversation with her where you don't need to rush off of the phone, and you can unblock her from your messenger. You just have to be at a point in your life where your interactions with her DO NOT make you feel bad inside. Like getting your hopes up only to be let down, or just feeling downright rejected. If you can get away with talking to her and it not have a negative effect on how you feel or live your life, by all means, talk to her until your blue in the face. You are just needing to minimize the pain you feel right now. Talking to her very much will not accomplish that right now. What you need is time away from her.

 

And just so you know it...nobody here hates your ex. Only thing we are concerned with is that you not get hurt by her. We are all kind of like a family here and want to help each other out. Outside perspective can sometimes be the best. We are all here to help you so don't be embarrassed or ashamed if you stumble. We will lend you a hand to get back on your feet. Even if it has to be "tough love"

[codaaurora]

Absolutely Blue, just cause I say I'm ticked off at her, doesn't mean I hate her. No way, I don't know her, how can I? I just don't like what she is doing to you.

 

As a woman and reading what you have been saying since coming on the board, I didn't need you to tell me that your the type of personality that can't say no. I already saw that, from two perspectives. One as a person with the same problem but is slowly growing out of it and learning that I need to do for me first and stop caring if the other person is mad cause I say no every once in a while. Two: as a woman who sees a man that can be manipulated. All women see it, it's just whether or not she choosed to use it. I've always chosen not too. Yes, I manipulate to get what I want, but in an innocent vain, I bat my eye lashes, I'm sweet, I threaten to kick tail, but I NEVER use someone's personality against them. NEVER, that is a big big no-no.

 

Remember to stay strong BLUE. I know you can't understand how no contact is going to make her want to leave her present BF, who knows, it might not. BUT that's not what's important. What's important is that she realize that she can't use you anymore. That you realize that you are WORTH the love and attention of a kind girl. That you grow and learn from an experience that will make you a better man and mate. MOST of all, that you have time to heal.

 

**Also, if this helps, think of it this way, who got all the girls? The Fonze or Potzie? McGuyver or Jack Dalton (the bumbling sidekick)? Jerry (Sienfeld) or George (Constanza)? All these guys were confident with themselves. They knew what they wanted and didn't want. They knew that yes, they might fall in love and yes they might get rejected and hurt but that there was someone else out there to love them and it was the other person's loss. Become the McGuyver BLUE! (Plus he was just really hot with that Mullett and the gum wrapper blowing things up and those eyes and that body and that voice...but I digress)

[keefy1972]

LOL, Coda you're a nut! And you say im a dork. Anybody that digs anyone with a mullet is out of their tree. Mullets are for tools. Hahah