Bad boys?

[Seraphim]

Exactly, neither of us can truly know what has influenced the other.

 

I don't usually get involved in dating threads because I don't usually have a lot to offer. However, when it looks like women are going to get dumped on that's when I usually appear. To be fair I usually show up on threads were women say there are no good men in the world too. I don't believe either gender should be blanketed with huge generalized statement.

[John John]

Exactly, neither of us can truly know what has influenced the other.

 

I don't usually get involved in dating threads because I don't usually have a lot to offer. However, when it looks like women are going to get dumped on that's when I usually appear. To be fair I usually show up on threads were women say there are no good men in the world too. I don't believe either gender should be blanketed with huge generalized statement.

 

You're right. I know in the past I've been guilty of blanket statements against women, but such statements really came from a place of anger/hurt/frustration at the time. No one gender has it easy all the time, and it varies from person to person. I've also tried to be empathetic to the fact that women (to this day!) are more harshly judged on their looks than men are, and have seen unattractive (at least, to me) women really struggle. And I feel terrible for them.

[Seraphim]

True blanket statements don't help anybody. And they are really a cognitive distortion. And they only serve to insult the other gender and they don't really support any growth.

[lukeb]

Maybe I'm more black-and-white because I actually do remember a time when women were not considered equal in ANY case. People think of women being maligned is more of a 1900 thing. It isn't . Even in the 70s and 80s women were still being treated in society as not equal. You have to remember I was growing up in the 70s and 80s not the 1990s or 2000s. It was still actually a different society for women.

 

I think equality for women is an absolutely ridiculous concept, that is equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. I am all for equality of opportunity, but I doubt anyone is interested in equality of outcome. Equality of outcome also includes having 50% male kindergarten teachers, and having 50% female high-voltage power line workers. When you look at the more egalitarian countries where women have more choice, what we actually see is more differentiating between the genders not less.

 

When we look back at history we can only see it through what we can relate to, and in some ways it is a lot like the difficulties us westerners have with the middle eastern countries. When women got the right to vote is something we can understand. That women used to have status, power and honor as mothers historically is something we don't understand and can relate to. Mothers have no power in today's western society so we can't comprehend in those terms. So we think it is clear evidence that women historically didn't have power when we look at things like the right to vote.

[TMifune]

True blanket statements don't help anybody. And they are really a cognitive distortion. And they only serve to insult the other gender and they don't really support any growth.

 

Did you just make a blanket statement decrying the value of blanket statements? ;-)

[Seraphim]

I think equality for women is an absolutely ridiculous concept, that is equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. I am all for equality of opportunity, but I doubt anyone is interested in equality of outcome. Equality of outcome also includes having 50% male kindergarten teachers, and having 50% female high-voltage power line workers. When you look at the more egalitarian countries where women have more choice, what we actually see is more differentiating between the genders not less.

 

When we look back at history we can only see it through what we can relate to, and in some ways it is a lot like the difficulties us westerners have with the middle eastern countries. When women got the right to vote is something we can understand. That women used to have status, power and honor as mothers historically is something we don't understand and can relate to. Mothers have no power in today's western society so we can't comprehend in those terms. So we think it is clear evidence that women historically didn't have power when we look at things like the right to vote.

 

We still don't have equality of opportunity and I sure know we didn't when I was a young adult.

[lukeb]

We still don't have equality of opportunity and I sure know we didn't when I was a young adult.

 

I think that depends on what that means: "equality of opportunity" If you mean it in the sense of all things being equal then you are right but all things aren't equal, we live in a world where the biology is such that only women can get pregnant, and only men can impregnate them, and you are also dealing with millions of years of biological programming. That can't be undone even with biological game changers such as the birth control pill. I still think it is an illusion to think a pill can make everything equal.

 

A mainstay of feminism is the belief that gender is a social/cultural construct, it is not that they want to believe it, they HAVE to believe it. Feminists believe boys are different not because of biology, they are different because we treat them differently, etc. I just don't believe that's true, all the hard science points otherwise.

[Seraphim]

I am talking about equality of opportunity to do whatever job we want. At present there is only lip service to that notion . Equality of payment don't pay me less because I'm a girl.

 

Biology, yes, set us up to do different things. Neither thing is less than the other, just different.

[Moontiger]

Threads like this always make me laugh because nearly all of my close female friends do not go for what people refer to as "Alpha Males". They are all genuinely good man (who never feel the need to tell anyone how "nice" they are). The firend I have who did pick an "Alpha", well no one in our circle likes him. This goes for my family as well, mom and sisters all picked what I suppose some would call "beta men".

 

Let me put it this way, in Pride and Prejudice there is character named Mr. Collins. He is what I think of as someone who would use the phrase "nice guys finish last."

[TMifune]

Threads like this weigh on my heart because they expose the startling lack of empathy that modern women have for modern men. I guess laughter's just another piece of evidence in that pile.

[lukeb]

Threads like this always make me laugh because nearly all of my close female friends do not go for what people refer to as "Alpha Males". They are all genuinely good man (who never feel the need to tell anyone how "nice" they are). The firend I have who did pick an "Alpha", well no one in our circle likes him. This goes for my family as well, mom and sisters all picked what I suppose some would call "beta men".

 

Let me put it this way, in Pride and Prejudice there is character named Mr. Collins. He is what I think of as someone who would use the phrase "nice guys finish last."

 

Well with alpha males I don't necessarily mean a brute or some what is generally considered some of the more negative characteristics associated with masculinity. It could be but it doesn't have to be greater physical strength or courage. Especially since in modern times there is less emphasis on those qualities anyways as we are moving away from a blue collar economy.

 

When I say alpha males I am meaning the more successful guy (whatever that may entail), or "a catch". You can be a nice guy and successful. It seems to me if women can't marry "up" and I mean marrying up significantly, they tend to think they have to settle while in fact they may be marrying their equal. It is not surprising then that the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. Men have it tough! Well straight men do.

[reinventmyself]

It's pretty simple. Men care more about looks, and women are more harsh and pickier with the overall "package" men bring to the table because they are the ones assuming more risk if they marry/mate with a given male (although like I think you said, the bc pill sort of changes this - but women still have the instinct to go for the best man they can get). If a woman chooses to have children with a certain male, she has to go through the pregnancy/giving birth process, and her children will inherit the father's genes. So while women definitely care about looks as well, they also care about intelligence/innate talents, status, height, earning potential/money, etc.

 

You do realize you can rewrite this entire paragraph and switch genders and the same theory could apply.

[Capricorn3]

Thread has run its course.