Operation Finding Girlfriend

[Ms Darcy]

I can't recall, do you also have BPD?

[Ms Darcy]

I didn't want to/wasn't sure if I'd be allowed to or feel comfortable copy and pasting someone else's work here, but I can parse it a little, I suppose, and give you guys the link if you're interested. It caught my eye for obvious reasons, but for the sake of discussion, I'm also really curious on your input guys:

 

So it's called: "Need a Relationship? You’re Not Needy. You’re Normal."

 

And just a few bits I picked up on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you guys think? Is my situation not applicable at all to that article, is the article complete garbage, are there any valid and positive points anyone would agree with? I'm just curious from you all.

 

I would be careful not to buy into products that sell co-dependent thinking. That's really all I have to say until you actually start your therapies.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I can't recall, do you also have BPD?

 

That's what the Army doc told me when we got back from Iraq and we all had to go through a mental health eval. One of my friends got kicked out of the Army for the same thing, but he had worse PTSD than I did.

 

Countless stuff out there, what the military did to a lot of us:

 

 

 

 

 

- Military using personality disorder diagnoses to deny veterans benefits

[TheSpoon2Big]

I would be careful not to buy into products that sell co-dependent thinking. That's really all I have to say until you actually start your therapies.

 

Did you read the article? Yea I guess how you can see it as co-dependent thinking. But I don't think human beings were put on this planet to lead solitary lives and never seek a relationship or bonding or a community. I don't believe we can exist in a vacuum.

 

What I took away from that article was that people don't have to feel so ashamed or feel like they are only being "needy" if they seek out a relationship.

[Ms Darcy]

Did you read the article? Yea I guess how you can see it as co-dependent thinking. But I don't think human beings were put on this planet to lead solitary lives and never seek a relationship or bonding or a community. I don't believe we can exist in a vacuum.

 

What I took away from that article was that people don't have to feel so ashamed or feel like they are only being "needy" if they seek out a relationship.

 

People need other people. This comes in many forms. I have several single by choice friends in their 40s and 50s who are very happy. They have close friend/family circles for companionship and emotional support. You just have to be open-minded in the way you think about fulfillment.

 

I personally don't need a relationship. I love my husband, of course, but I know I would be fine single and connected with my friends. I spent many years single and perfectly happy with my career and health and social life. Relationships were a bonus to an already fun and filling life.

[FlashEng1]

I just don’t want to completely abandon the notion that I could potentially find someone with whom to have a healthy relationship with, ESPECIALLY if I am in the process of individual AND group therapy. I’ve also made it a goal to focus more on not only that, but my health and fitness again, maybe spice up my wardrobe/fashion, make my apartment feel comfortable and home-y.

 

What I mean is that if I was trying to sit here and say “oh yea I’ve made these observations so I know I can date without worrying about if I get hurt or rejected or taken for a ride or if I’m using someone else just to get over my ex” and didn’t have therapy and other tools for self-development, I’d be an idiot. I was just hoping that maybe since I have those going on, it’ll not only keep me busier with their activities and “modules” I have to follow with weekly homework type of assignments and I am financially vested in this, none of this is cheap or free, that I’d be able to still explore dating but not with the 100% outcome based focus. And maybe it would help me make sense of what mistakes I’m making and what I’m doing wrong AS I’m doing them.

 

My logic, just hear me out? If I’m not dating anyone, or not in a relationship, and I’m going to these therapies, I struggle to encounter the deep level of interpersonal problems I have in my life because I’m not on that same level with my coworker friends, one or two of my closest/best male friends, not even my family who has all but disowned me. It’s like they told me when I was in the DBT group before when I asked them about how come I don’t have these same problems with strangers, or even coworkers or something? They said it’s like swimming, and for example at work it’s shallow water and I can swim and navigate in that like normal people. But then when I get home and I’m with my girlfriend, it’s deeper water and I don’t know how to swim anymore. Most people who don’t know me on a deeper level would have no clue about any of my issues because I’m very good at either masking them, or it seriously just doesn’t bother me the way it does when it gets deeper/more personal?

 

I was just thinking, maybe if I’m still navigating the dating world while in therapy and we talk about it weekly, I can gain some insight on what kind of behaviors and triggers come up for me that are leading to all of this pain and rejection and problems, since that’s the real root of my “disorder” is: a high sensitivity to real OR perceived abandonment and a pattern of intense interpersonal relationships. The goal is to give me all of these “skills” that maybe other “normal people learned growing up, seeing the healthy and right amount of emotional boundaries of their parents, or people in their lives, whatever. I truly want to work on these skills. Some even recommend going through the 6-month therapy course at least TWICE as it’s a lot of information and hard to grasp and difficult to change patterns of thought and coping issues.

 

Have you spoken with your therapist(s) or group about this thought? I can certainly understand your logic and argument for it, but don't quite think it'll work the way you'd like it to or think it will. Without getting specific to your situation, let's make a relative comparison with "dabbling into things" while working on them.

 

If you were in a relationship, and it didn't work out, one would go full no contact and work on themselves, not breakup but still email or text the other person once a week while ultimately breaking up and healing from it.

If you were to quit a drug or stop smoking, one would quit altogether (possibly with the aid of a patch/gum/etc), but not cut down to a pack a week or to do the drug once a week.

If your goal here is to work on yourself and become the best version of yourself, one would do so by focusing entirely on themselves, not dabble with co-dependency triggers or things that would hinder their progress (such as dating/finding love).

 

This is just my take on becoming better, however. Perhaps a therapist would disagree with me, or encourage you to still go out and date while going through your sessions. Having worked through my own version/past of co-dependency and self worth, I could go on all day about the amount of missed opportunities and amazing women that had healthy, fulfilling relationship potential to them, but I had to not call, or set up a date with, or text back because I knew.. I knew that I wasn't ready, not in the slightest. That I'd be fooling myself to think I could dabble with someone else's heart while I played doctor on myself, healing and working on my own issues. Growing friendships is one thing, and certainly encouraged. You can gain the companionship and love and motivation as you would a relationship. But even that's difficult for someone who has codependency issues, and could easily become a victim of love from the kindest of gestures.

 

Nah, I'd be happy going cold turkey if I had to do it all over again. I believe it's easier to reflect on your past, and identify the trigger points, and practice working on the foundation to it all; rather than continuing the bad action and trying to identify the details, steps, and how to handle every single trigger that may come.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I can't recall, do you also have BPD?

 

Pretty sure I've mentioned that along with PTSD many times now, yes. But like I said also, that was back from the Army, that's the only time I heard that word and didn't know what it meant. Many of my fellow Vets with PTSD also got labeled as having BPD. A lot of the symptoms overlap each other.

[TheSpoon2Big]

People need other people. This comes in many forms. I have several single by choice friends in their 40s and 50s who are very happy. They have close friend/family circles for companionship and emotional support. You just have to be open-minded in the way you think about fulfillment.

 

I personally don't need a relationship. I love my husband, of course, but I know I would be fine single and connected with my friends. I spent many years single and perfectly happy with my career and health and social life. Relationships were a bonus to an already fun and filling life.

 

Would you not be sad if you were suddenly cut off from your husband? If things ended? I get that you are very confident about being alone and how much you don't need a relationship to function or be happy. Why get married then? Can you say you're "happier married" or were you happier/less happier before marriage? I'm curious.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I figured no one here would go along with my thought process outlined. What would you all have me do then? Go live in Amish Country for 2 years? Then a Buddhist Temple for 3yrs? Spend 10 years single until I figure myself out. What if it takes 10 years? What if someday I look back and say, "man, I missed out on my youth, I can't take it back". What if I'm single forever and ever? I feel like maybe some of you advocate that. Like I'll never be ready for a relationship. At least until I'm "whole". What if that takes 6 months of this therapy course I'm about to take? What if it's 3 months? Like what more do you want me to do? I listed all these awesome books I rear every night, the self help podcasts I listen to, the medication I take from the VA, the individual counseling and the group counseling I do, etc. That's probably more than a lot of people on this forum are doing to better themselves instead instead of coming solely on here to get advice.

 

I don't disagree with the entirety of what you guys are saying. I hear it. And now, I haven't run the idea by my therapist. I'll see him tomorrow, and I'll see what he says and let you guys know

 

And I knew someone would think my idea would be taken as messing with someone else's heart or "dabbling" with women while in therapy isn't fair to them. I am not trying to use them as target practice, sheesh. I want to find my future wife, I want to be happy and have a family someday. I have never once had an intention of "using" a woman for my own selfish needs. I've only ever wanted affection and love in return. Yea, that might be co-dependent. Add that to my list of ongoing disorders.

 

Report back tomorrow when I met with my therapist to discuss my idea of dating while in treatment (or at least TRYING to date), to see the triggers come up for me and how better to handle them. If I never get feedback on them now, how will I know bow to deal with them when the time comes, 3 years from now, after I've been single forever with no interaction with women on a romantic/dating/attraction/seduction/sexual level?

 

My ex (2yr) never once thought I was overpursuing her, but in retrospect I was. She loved the attention, I think. I gave way more than I received in the beginning. It wasn't until one day when she did a 180 sort of, and fell all over me. She didn't see my "red flags" and/or she looked past them. She hadn't dated in over a year before she met me. Did she not see my problems when I first met her? Was she just not as experienced at dating new people and couldn't tell the difference? The guy she was with before me was together with her for 7 years. So add 1 more and that would have been 8 years for her that she didn't date guys, so maybe she had no clue what to look for or what might be a red flag?

 

Sometimes I think now it's either that, or that she was also mentally messed up like me, and that's how we ended up together, because we saw past each other's messed up-ness.

 

Night guys.

[Ms Darcy]

Would you not be sad if you were suddenly cut off from your husband? If things ended? I get that you are very confident about being alone and how much you don't need a relationship to function or be happy. Why get married then? Can you say you're "happier married" or were you happier/less happier before marriage? I'm curious.

 

Of course I would be very sad if our relationship ended. I would take time to grieve the relationship before considering dating again. In fact, I had a relationship that I thought was heading towards marriage; that ended. I took about a year off before dating again. I take time and grieve; that's my way after every relationship I have had. After that year, that's when I met my husband. I believe had I tried to date him earlier, I would not have been ready.

 

I am very happy. Happier married? No, I'm not happier married. I am generally a happy person. I was happy before marriage and am happy now. I would say I am happier as I get older and improve my general coping skills.

 

I look at things holistically. There are a lot of balls in the air going on in life. For example, I was in a miserable job for 8 years. That really was a struggle to have a positive outlook. I was still in that job when I got married. What helped me survive that job until I finally landed my dream job wasn't being married. I don't really view my husband as my therapist or anything. What helped me was building resiliency and hope within myself - through occupational therapy, yoga, meditation, exercise, close friends/family, going back to school for my grad degree, other professional actions. And that sense of resiliency and hope is what makes me happy.

 

Maybe I don't think of it as "am I happier married" but rather "am I happy in this marriage?"

 

In a bad marriage, however one defines that, one CAN definitely feel less happy overall. In a good marriage, one can also feel happier overall. I guess for me, I try to keep a positive outlook on all the areas of my life I can't attribute overall happiness to just one part of it - albeit a big part.

 

Marriage isn't an end-all-be-all. Being married in and of itself is just a state of being. I just think people have overly romantic notions that once they marry that will resolve all of their unhappiness and then they will be fulfilled. NOPE. Work will still have drama. Parents can still get ill. Partners can still get laid off. Life is ever changing and full of stress and you are living with someone who doesn't think exactly like you. I would actually say, marriage is hard work. There is constant negotiation, compromise and communication to make it work. I know folks who are married and MISERABLE. All of those incompatibilities during the dating phase get amplified when you are married.

 

I say all that to say, it's not that hard (relatively speaking) to get married. What's really really hard is to have a happy marriage over a long period of time. It tests whether you are with someone you are compatible with. Are you patient? Are you able to handle conflict? Can you communicate in a constructive way? Are you on a similar wavelength as far as values, morals, and future goals? Can you support each other in life challenges? Do you know how to give each other the much needed space both people in a relationship need? Are you able to agree on the finances in terms of spending and savings? And on and on and on.

 

So the process of finding the right partner for me was a very deliberative process and marriage was the end result of continual mutual observation. I hope that answers your question! I am very happy to be married to my particular husband and I am excited about our future. I am also aware that none of my ex boyfriends were the right people and I would have been very miserable in a marriage with them.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I guess that's the key part I take away from what you said:

I would say I am happier as I get older and improve my general coping skills.

- that's my ultimate goal right now, to develop my own coping skills.

 

What you said about not being happier married struck me though. Maybe it's our culture or society that makes us all think we're supposed to be happier married? The whole "happily married forever" thing?

 

People in relationships, at least the beginnings of one, never cease to amaze. My FB "feed" gets completely full of nothing but constant pictures of each other together and being "oh so happy" until I can't take it anymore and un-follow them or whatever.

[Ms Darcy]

I guess that's the key part I take away from what you said: - that's my ultimate goal right now, to develop my own coping skills.

 

What you said about not being happier married struck me though. Maybe it's our culture or society that makes us all think we're supposed to be happier married? The whole "happily married forever" thing?

 

People in relationships, at least the beginnings of one, never cease to amaze. My FB "feed" gets completely full of nothing but constant pictures of each other together and being "oh so happy" until I can't take it anymore and un-follow them or whatever.

 

In my life right now, the biggest thing getting my attention is my elderly mother's health. So, I guess I'm soo focused on trying to cope with thoughts of mortality and my beloved mother that I prioritize the need for coping skills.

 

Facebook is funny. People have good days and bad. But of course they are not going to post the bad. I would suggest considering taking time off FB. I actually didn't even get on FB again until last year. FB just encourages comparing yourself to others and I don't try to play that game.

[TheSpoon2Big]

I couldn't agree more about FB, no one posts negative stuff, or things they're not proud to show or when they aren't happy or something. My ex was obsessed with our "image" as a couple specifically on Facebook towards the end of our relationship, because she admitted to me when I put up a fight that she really wanted to show everyone in her life that we were a happy couple and that she wasn't crazy for being with me after hearing about all our fights etc. So every couple you see on there is only going to post the good happy stuff I guess.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother's health Darcy. I wish you and yours well.

[TheSpoon2Big]

Feeling a little pang of depression today. With this recent talk about being single vs being in a relationship and happiness alone vs happiness in a relationship etc has just got me down a bit.

 

I'm depressed because I'm alone. But rewind exactly this time 1 year ago, I was fighting with my ex so bad she kicked me out of our own apartment for a week.

 

I can't figure out if I was more depressed IN the relationship or without. In fact I'm not sure if I felt what I'd call "depression" a year ago, more just frustration/anger/hurt, I don't know.

 

And now I have been single longer than I've ever been (but not by choice).

[TheSpoon2Big]

Well all I had my 2nd therapy session with the new guy tonight. Still lots of paperwork and questionnaires to do. The guy doesn't seem too much older than me, not sure, I can sort of tell he isn't a fully trained ninja Zen master therapist yet either. I've been around enough of them now to get a feel for their level of experience. He is however pretty perceptive and listens to me. Going over my history more and more, he noted that I've always sort of been in a crisis or had "trauma" going back to early life, teenage years especially, losing my brother, the military, chaotic relationships. I suffer from a lot of guilt and shame about everything I've done wrong and how I like to view myself as protective and caring of those close to me yet I struggle with these emotional imbalances that make it hard for me to feel very masculine and in control of things.

 

About the Dating while in therapy piece, he said he's not going to tell me to date or not to date. He said he gets it, as a guy, we also want to have love and affection and the support and love from a female in our lives, and also how that's a pretty human thing. Interestingly, he said anyone who says they don't want a relationship is lying to themselves, in his opinion. While on one hand he did say that this time around it might be a good thing then I'm not in a relationship. On the other hand he did hear me out on what I was saying about dating while going through therapy or at least trying to date. He said it could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing we just don't know yet. What he followed up on was that I will be learning new coping skills on top of my old habits and routines and that may make my dating approach different or feel more uncomfortable or unnatural to me because it's not how I have approached dating in the past. He said that might be a good thing because obviously how I have approached it or am approaching it currently isn't working, not the healthy way I want them to at least. It's funny, he said well you're a good-looking guy I'm sure you would have no problem going on OK Cupid and getting a few dates. I told him haha I already am.

 

He said of course you have plenty of stuff to work on without a relationship. He did understand and hear me out when I said that sometimes a lot of my interpersonal problems don't arise unless I am in a relationship. Not that it's a prerequisite to be in therapy or to work on my issues, it was just something I thought about.

 

We have a long ways to go, and there is no set time table. It's not like in 6 months once I have spent more time in especially the group therapy that I will suddenly have a light bulb go off and say oh great yeah I've got it all down now and let me hit the market and start dating.

 

He did say it could possibly be a good thing for me to have experiences while trying to date and having all of these situations come up sort of like what happened with this last short relationship I had. Not that he is there as a dating coach and that is the sole purpose of my therapy, but it's there one way or another.

 

I now see that I do have plenty of other things that I can work on in therapy besides a relationship or being in a relationship. What initially brought me to this particular counseling training institute place was my 2 year ex relationship and my desire not to lose her because she told me if I didn't go get help that we couldn't be together. Well I lost her anyway and here I am still in therapy.

 

He told me not to feel shame if I feel like I want a relationship. He said I shouldn't feel guilty or shameful if I feel like I want that human connection with sex and love and all of that stuff. He said that's pretty natural and not to beat myself up too much over it basically.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother's health Darcy. I wish you and yours well.

 

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

[tigerkitty]

You remind me so much of myself and how I have acted in past relationships. It's only recently that I've realised that there is a difference between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy one, and how to tell the difference.

 

For example, typically in the past when I've been in a relationship my emotions and actions have been more along the lines of infatuation. I wanted to spend every second of every minute of every day with my partner, I would feel personally offended if they didn't wish me good morning or good night, or forget something I'd told them the day before, etc. I literally made them my entire world and my view was "this is how love is supposed to be, us against the world, we don't need anyone else" and I would be genuinely upset and confused when my partner didn't view it the same way, like this meant they didn't love me enough or I wasn't interesting enough for them to make them as crazy about me as I was about them. This is soooo unhealthy. This is not a working relationship, this is setting yourself up for heartbreak and disappointment but I know how hard it can be to let go of that fantasy ideal of love that you have. A side-effect of this obsessive view of my relationships was that I also did not respect the other persons boundaries or choices and also didn't respect myself. I was cheated on and lied to many a time and stayed in bad relationships because we "loved" each other. I would become moody and irritable if they chose to spend time with their family over me because in my view we didn't need anyone else. All recipes for absolute relationship disaster. You cannot indulge in these feelings because they are ultimately selfish and will push your partner away, they aren't healthy at all.

 

Problem is though, and I'm sure you're the same, logically I knew all of this and would reflect on past relationships and think "oh no I wouldn't do that again" but the moment you're in one again all of those intense emotions come flooding in again and you feel totally 100% justified when you demand more of their time, when you sulk when they choose not to spend time with you and you stay again when they treat you like crap. It's almost like its a part of your personality that is only unlocked when you're in a relationship and have those intense feelings flooding your senses.

 

The trick is you need to avoid the people that make you feel that intense craziness. It may feel like they MUST be the one for you, but they're not. You're the only one thinking that, it isn't mutual, and you'll only end up putting them up on a pedastal and both treating them like crap (yes, acting in this crazy way is treating them like crap) and them treating you like crap. You need to identify someone who ticks your boxes in a relatively casual and care free way. I met someone on a dating website back in November last year and we spent a few months getting to know each other, taking our time and just enjoying our conversation, we eventually met up and had a date and you know what? It couldn't have gone better. I'm not texting him like crazy, I'm not wondering what he's doing every second of the day, I have 0 expectations from him right now and I know if he were to treat me badly for even a second I'd be out that door, and you know what? That's HEALTHY. That's what relationships are meant to be like. It's not romantic, die hard, can't live without you love like you see in movies, no, but that ISN'T REAL. Try and try all you like to find it (and I know you will because I did too) but it will explode in flames every single time. My innate craziness has not been activated by this guy and as a result I respect him and his time and also myself a heck of a lot more. I don't feel like I owe him anything and know that he doesn't owe me anything either. Normally I'd be in "omg why hasn't he text me? It's a Saturday and it's 1pm so he HAS to be awake and he's DEFINITELY not at work so what's the problem?" mode. Over-obsessing about the other persons schedule, working out where they're likely to be, what they're likely to be doing, WHY haven't they messaged because in my mind they're OBVIOUSLY free and I should CLEARLY be their No. 1 priority. It's ridiculous. It's heart-breaking to come to the realisation that that kind of unconditional, all-encompassing love isn't real or right or healthy but until/unless you let go of it, trust me you WILL NOT find a happy, healthy relationship.

 

It won't make sense to you to choose to date someone you're feeling less enthused about as opposed to someone you're nuts about, I understand that, but you must understand that it only feels mild and less exciting because you're comparing it to the crazy, intense, HUGE emotions you feel usually when you're dating someone you really like. Find someone who does NOT bring out your crazy side and they are far more likely to be the right person for you.

 

Lastly, do take time out to heal yourself and grieve past relationships if you can. You need to take care of both your body and your mind and right now your mind sounds like it needs a break, as does your heart. Give them time to catch up and recover the loss of your past two relationships. I've been single for three years and only just started dating again and I know for a fact if I had dated earlier I'd have been a complete mess. My mind was still half with my ex, I wasn't happy with how I was doing mentally or physically and really needed that time to myself (despite the fact that I hate being "alone"). Yes it feels like you're wasting time and missing opportunities and the time bomb is ever ticking BUT it's like a good cooked meal, if you rush it and take it out too soon it ends up undercooked and you possibly end up giving yourself food poisoning. If you're patient and take your time, work on your timing and your attention to detail, you end up with the perfect meal that you're happy to eat again and again!

 

Note: I also suffer from mental health conditions and have been in therapy, I do not mean offense when I use the words "crazy" or "obsessive", they're just genuinely accurate words to describe the way that it feels when you latch onto someone the way in which we do.

 

Wishing you all the best!

[TheSpoon2Big]

Haven't posted inhere in gosh knows how long. So if any of you read this, thank you! Nothing"bad" to report, so don't worry about me being a negative Nancy if you read on.

 

Last time I washere, it was May/June, and I was still dealing with the end of that 1.5month"relationship" where I got rejected. Looking back in hindsight -always 20/20 - I see what a fool I was. Not only how my actions affected her behavior towards me and the "relationship", but also just that wewould have never been a good fit regardless. On top of that, the physical attractiveness factor was less than I'd like to think I'm capable of and have been much more successful in that department historically. Not to say that isall that matters, I'm just sayin'.

 

Since then, 2 monthsor so have passed, yea? Yet it feels like a lifetime. In the past 2 months, Ihad my nephew come visit from out of state for 2 weeks that I took vacation from work for. He's my older brother who passed's son, so I sort of helped raisehim and he and I have a strong bond. We went to a concert while he was here.Well, "music festival", 3 days straight. I also got a dog/puppy! I Love dogs, have always loved them, grew up with them, and have wanted one since getting my own apartment again. It's lonely living alone, and I missed my dogthat my last ex and I adopted together that she kept, of course.

 

I digress. Thisthread is about "Finding A Girlfriend"! Have I found one? Maybe....

 

For the past 2months, I've "dated" considerably. I realize I have very littletrouble securing dates or talking to women compared to many of my male friends.It's not something I'm "proud of", but I have slept with more womenin my life than I'd care to share. I've actually lost count. Like I said, I'mnot boasting, which is A) sometimes what guys do and B) what women think guysdo. And I know the whole "double standard" "he's a stud"and "she's a " if they've slept with an equally high number ofpeople, for example. My counter to that is that it is "easier" forwomen to get laid, if that was all they cared about for example. If the soleintent on going out for the night for a woman was "I'm going to getlaid", then she'd certainly not have to look very far or long due to thefact that men are horn-dogs.

 

I digress AGAIN,ugh!

 

So I'm talking to agirl right now that I like. I actually am "talking" to a handful ofgirls, but only one that really interests me. One of them sort of just isn't mytype, but I can tell she's really into me (or at least more so than I am intoher). Most we have done is kiss. And SHE initiated that on the first date. Iwouldn't have gone for it. Another girl also is very into me, but lives halfwayacross the world. There's a third, but I'll just have to call her a"friend". We've done nothing but hug. I could write a story about herand the mixed signals there, but the short version is that I used to talk toher and then ended up dating one of her friends back in 2007/8. So almost 10years later, this girl finds me and adds me on Facebook. We end up hanging outa few times, the first time for dinner and to discuss her recent breakup withsome 40+ yr old lawyer (she just turned 27…lol). Anyways, she knows I like her,but she's told me that she isn't interested in anything more than friendshipright now, despite her hitting me up every other week with something randomlike a text: "Dinner tonight?". Then when I question why she'd inviteme to dinner if she only wanted to be my friend but knew I liked her. Herresponse? "I just don't like to eat by myself". Hah, so you have NOother "friends" to ask, and I just so happen to be the one you ask?In fact, last week, when we were talking about this, she said "You'rereally sweet. You're going to make a very special girl happy one day".

 

Alright, leading meto the end, the girl you could say I'm "dating" the most, if youwill. No, nothing "official", no titles, no pressure and no stress.We met online but immediately hit it off. First date was probably one of thebest I've ever had. She's gorgeous, intelligent, independent, family oriented,intuitive, a good listener, awesome personality that seems to gel really wellwith mine, great sense of humor, etc. The funny bit is that she owns her ownbusiness now, but she used to work in a primarily male hair cuttingsalon/barber shop for years. Ironically, I frequented this place and she cut myhair a few times. She says she doesn't remember me, but I remember her. Thiswas 2014/2015, and I was in a relationship with my ex so didn't think twiceabout hitting on her or anything. Fast forward 2 years, she's single and so amI. Funny. Now she owns/runs her own startup cleaning business and so far she'spretty successful. Last night she invited me to stay the night at her place.What a strange difference from the last girl I dated and posted about here whowould kick me out after we had sex poking me as I fell asleep saying "wakeup, you can't sleep here", etc. This new girl, she had to go check onsomething in her office in the early AM, so she quietly got ready and left mein her bed in her apartment and just told me to go out the garage so as to keepthe front door locked. Hello????? I probably wouldn't be able to trust someonelike that, not so soon. So I made her bed, left her a sweet note, and left. Nowshe wants me to come back over again tonight. I think it's safe to say she'sinto me…. Much more so than that last girl I posted about at least.

 

The irony now thatthe situation is SORTA flipped? Now it's ME who doesn't want to "move toofast".

[TheSpoon2Big]

PS: I've had to take a break from therapy, for anyone keeping track. It's been a financial drain that I need to recover from. Weekly individual AND group costs add up.

[TheSpoon2Big]

My stupid a** wears my heart on my sleeve, I fall too fast, I get too excited. With her having me sleep over all the time and her running to the store real quick and just leaving me at her place alone (I was putting together a TV stand she bought), I asked if she wanted to be my girlfriend. She didn't say "no" and didn't reel at the question, but didn't say yes either. She said "I think we need some more time to get to know each other". Sounds perfectly logical, right? Yea, I guess that's what normal people do. I beat my head this morning after I left her place to go home for the day this morning. I wasn't as disappointed that she didn't say yes as I was upset with myself for even bringing it up. So she thought maybe I was mad or something, so she started texting me:

 

 

Her: You're so sweet sorry I didn't eat breakfast with you. Hope you're not mad

Me: of course not silly

Her: (heart emoji)

Her a bit later: Ifeel like you're upset with me ☹️

Me: I'm not upset sillygoose

Her: Good

Her: Thank you for the flowers and the CD!

Me: Of course ! I hope you enjoy them

Her: I'm sorry if I make you sad . I just like to take my time and don't rush into anything. This doesn't mean that I don't like you and you're the most handsome guy I know and with the coolest personality

Me: I totally understand, I don't want to mess anything up. I Feel kinda dumb asking you so soon anyway myself so I'm not sad or mad lol just wish I could take it back

Her Don't take it back don't feel dumb you're not dumb. I'm happy to know you would take me seriously. And this is probably why you said it

Me: Exactly !

 

 

Then she invited me over later in the day today to go to IKEA so she could buy a furniture TV stand and said she needed my "muscles" to lift it all and bring it into her place and set it up. PS: I hate IKEA with all their little stupid pieces. Then we're driving back to her place in her car, and she's blasting rap music and other stuff that I don't like and singing along really loud to it and the volume is really high! She said "is the volume too high?" I discreetly said no, but she could tell I wasn't exactly enjoying it, but she kept doing it anyway. I would never do that to someone. If I knew they were annoyed by the music, I'd try to change it to something more neutral for them until we get to know each other better.

 

She's also a small business owner, she works like 7 days a week. She has two phones and is constantly on the phone with her employees or her brother or mother. She can't go 2 minutes without looking at her phone. I felt like a slave putting together her TV stand. She wasn't being affectionate at all. She even said "after you're doing with that you should give me a massage". I said "Am I your slave?" and she laughed and said no I'm just kidding. ?

 

She also has a crap ton of money. Or she just maxes her credit cards out, who knows. Her place is a high end luxury apartment and she's got it completely decked out with brand new furniture and decorations like you wouldn't believe. And it's all the highest end quality stuff.

 

Maybe spending 2-3 days in a row with me just annoyed her, I don't know. She comes across as one of those "I'm a strong independent woman, I don't need a man" types, if you know what I mean. She reminds me A LOT of my ex ex girlfriend, the one before the last. She was Mexican (like this one), and was always doing weird things like the extreme blasting of music in my ear and then laughing when I don't enjoy it. And she says "Oh you're one of those serious types huh?". Like no, I can have fun and be goofy and have a sense of humor, but I'm sorry, if you're purposely annoying me, what am I supposed to do? Act happy? Act like I like it and be fake?

 

So what did I do? Just like the good little BIT*H I am, carried her upstairs from the couches downstairs to her bed, gave her a full body massage, then kissed her and said goodbye. All she said was "OK bye" but did give me a kiss. I guess I would have appreciated more affection. But maybe I'm too needy. I can't figure out the difference between what's a reasonable expectation of what your "love language" is (mine are words of affirmation and physical touch) and being too needy. I don't want to come across like that.

 

I give up.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think the bottom line here is what many people here have told you before, and something you realize to be true, but you don't seem to want to take the time and effort to address it: You get way too invested, way too soon, before you even know the person, and you get hurt when your strong feelings aren't reciprocated and/or the woman backs off suddenly.

 

For all intents and purposes, this woman is practically a stranger, yet you asked her to be your girlfriend. At first, I applauded her for telling you she wanted to take things slowly, but then when I read about some of the things that happened the other day, I thought, "Ahhhh....this girl has him exactly where she wants him. She loves the attention, the validation -- she loves how overly invested he already is, and she thinks she can act however she wants, and he'll still stick around." I believe that, if you stick around, things will go downhill pretty fast, and when they do, she'll pull the "But I SAID I wanted to take it SLOW," card on you, thus trying to absolve herself of any responsibility. That whole thing about you being her "slave"? Well, you are, already. She has you wrapped around your finger.

 

I truly believe that, in order for you to have a successful, healthy relationship, you need to address your patterns -- need to think long and hard about a few things, like why you think you need to "seal the deal" and make someone your girlfriend right away. Is there something that triggers this feeling that you need to rush that? Is it sex? Is it desperation to have a girlfriend so that you can stop searching? Is it something else? What were you afraid would happen if you didn't make this girl your girlfriend right away? Were you afraid she'd "get away?" Find someone she liked better? The point of all these questions is to get to the root of why you tend to repeat the same scenario over and over, just with a different girl (remember, the common denominator in all this is you).

 

I also have to question why you like this girl so much -- or whether you really DO like her all that much -- if she's already displaying behaviors that really annoy you --the music thing, being on the phone constantly, expecting you to put together her IKEA furniture (which I hate, too, but I'm a total champ at assembling IKEA stuff!). Again, this is VERY early days. Past behavior is, more often than not, a predictor of future behavior, and if you stick with this girl, it'll be more of the same, and I'm guessing worse, down the road. My concern is that, regardless of how she acts, you'll stick with her because you want to be in a relationship so badly. I hope I'm wrong.

 

I'm sorry to see you've given up therapy. I get that it's pricey, but...priorities. It seems that you're prioritizing finding/having a girlfriend over getting to the bottom of what is preventing you from having a successful relationship. I'm not judging you, but I am pointing that out as a gentle reminder that, if nothing changes, then, well, nothing changes. As the often-ridiculed (but maddeningly accurate, at times) Dr. Phil always says, "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."

 

I know you'll continue with this girl anyway, but...just ask yourself -- and be honest in your answer -- "How long do I want to continue this way?"

[Nuindacil]

I have just read your last posts, and I think that your situation is one that's very common for us guys: You don't have the intuition of what the dynamics of a healthy relationship is supposed to be. I usually feel like women are born with this intuition, and they expect us to have it too. That's why it's so frustrating sometimes.

 

But okay, about getting attached too soon: This is totally normal, it happens to all of us. But take into account that women fall in love waaay slower than us, and they will never understand that you are getting attached so soon. Basically the difference is there because they need to develop a sense of trust, of non-strangerness if you will. Which we don't need because we never feel threatened by women.

Also, browneyedgirl36 has a good point there. You have to know what you want. Maybe this girl is not what you wanted after all.

 

And about getting a girlfriend: You're not supposed to be focused on that. Your job as a man, according to the intuition that I was mentioning above, is to set dates and have fun with the girl. Until she brings up the "girlfriend" label, you're in a sort of "probation period", in which she wants to make sure that she can trust your emotional core. You need to respect that. And the healthy thing to do is to also have her in probation mode! Bottomline is that, unless your circumstances force you to do otherwise (as in my case...), don't complicate things.

 

Don't give up. As I said, your frustration is normal. This is a learning curve, we all need to go through some bad experiences in order to get the right intuition of what to do. Some posts of this thread may be discouraging too... Anyway, the best approach is to see each experience as an opportunity for growth, to learn and become a better man

[Coldarmy13]

I had to double check to make sure. Your first post sounded OK and you were wondering if she was the one wanting to go too fast. What changed in TWO DAYS from when you made the post where things seemed to go south for you?

 

Im going to re-read the two posts soon as I can, but it sounded like more of the same. You feeling the need to lock down an official title very, very early in dating someone new. Slow and steady wins the race, at least in my experience. Every time I seemed to push or rush things it always backfired. It took a lot of mistakes to learn that, maybe you are going through the same. Learn from each experience. Think about why you feel such a need to rush into things. What if she said yes but then continues to do the things that are already aggravating you, and worse. You'll be miserable.

[FlashEng1]

Hey BigSpoon!! Seeing as others are ultimately assisting you with the overall picture of what's going on, and reiterating what's been said in this thread before, allow me to pick apart most of what went on recently in hopes of helping you grow from this situation.

 

My stupid a** wears my heart on my sleeve, I fall too fast, I get too excited. With her having me sleep over all the time and her running to the store real quick and just leaving me at her place alone (I was putting together a TV stand she bought), I asked if she wanted to be my girlfriend. She didn't say "no" and didn't reel at the question, but didn't say yes either. She said "I think we need some more time to get to know each other". Sounds perfectly logical, right? Yea, I guess that's what normal people do. I beat my head this morning after I left her place to go home for the day this morning. I wasn't as disappointed that she didn't say yes as I was upset with myself for even bringing it up. So she thought maybe I was mad or something, so she started texting me:

 

Yes, you do man.. Yes you do. I'm a HUGE softie and can be known to do the same. It will be a continuous struggle for YOU in YOUR life for a long time. Perhaps your entire life. Accept it, and work on it daily. The best part about manning up to things is understanding where you stand in life about things like this, and learning how to manage it and work on it the best you can, while also owning every bit of it like a badge of honor!

 

 

Then she invited me over later in the day today to go to IKEA so she could buy a furniture TV stand and said she needed my "muscles" to lift it all and bring it into her place and set it up. PS: I hate IKEA with all their little stupid pieces. Then we're driving back to her place in her car, and she's blasting rap music and other stuff that I don't like and singing along really loud to it and the volume is really high! She said "is the volume too high?" I discreetly said no, but she could tell I wasn't exactly enjoying it, but she kept doing it anyway. I would never do that to someone. If I knew they were annoyed by the music, I'd try to change it to something more neutral for them until we get to know each other better.

 

This is an unfair assessment. Never assume, no matter how obvious the situation may be. Clear communication ALWAYS trumps insinuations, subtleties, and hints. If you don't like rap music OR the fact that it's too loud, then a completely okay and normal response is to flat out let her know this. Rather than taking the route of *thinking* she gets the picture, only to be offended that she continued things, tell yourself you'd be offended and tempted to move on if AFTER explaining things, she laughed it off, or told you to "get over it" or something. It's nice that you may never do this to someone, but it's even NICER to have that someone clearly let you know they had a problem with something, giving you the opportunity to respond accordingly. She didn't know you were annoyed by the music. No matter how many faces you made, and how loud of a sigh you gave, she didn't know unless you turned to her and said "You know what Sarah, not to be a downer but I don't really like rap music, and this is way too loud for me anyway.. can we maybe turn it down a bit?" And let her respond/act accordingly.

 

 

She's also a small business owner, she works like 7 days a week. She has two phones and is constantly on the phone with her employees or her brother or mother. She can't go 2 minutes without looking at her phone. I felt like a slave putting together her TV stand. She wasn't being affectionate at all. She even said "after you're doing with that you should give me a massage". I said "Am I your slave?" and she laughed and said no I'm just kidding. ?

 

Well... that's what running a business does. People with normal jobs work 8-9 hours a day, and are off the remaining times. SMB Owners work 24 hours a day, and every minute is a chance for a sale, management, growth, etc. within the business. If this really gets to you even after trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, then find a way to confidently let her know that when you're around, you'd like for the time to be less about being on her phone, and more about sharing something together, and get her input! Ask her if she understands or gets the drift.. You'll be surprised to learn she may have never taken it into account before *because* she's so independent and on her own wave... I think your taking offense to her statement is a huge resemblance of not only why you really should take the advice here on taking your time and slowing down with dating, BUT also about speaking up as well! Rather than letting things build up in your head, and you become more offended by the minute because of what she's said/done, learn to nip things in the bud by taking action elsewhere. Why not build conversation while working on her TV? Why not ask for her input in what you're doing. If she blows it off, let her know you'd like things to be a team effort while you take care of it because, IDK, you simply want to spend time w/ her doing things WITH her and not FOR her. What you're doing now is a sure path to becoming the infamous friendzone/doormat.. The squeaky wheel always gets the oil...

 

 

Maybe spending 2-3 days in a row with me just annoyed her, I don't know. She comes across as one of those "I'm a strong independent woman, I don't need a man" types, if you know what I mean. She reminds me A LOT of my ex ex girlfriend, the one before the last. She was Mexican (like this one), and was always doing weird things like the extreme blasting of music in my ear and then laughing when I don't enjoy it. And she says "Oh you're one of those serious types huh?". Like no, I can have fun and be goofy and have a sense of humor, but I'm sorry, if you're purposely annoying me, what am I supposed to do? Act happy? Act like I like it and be fake?

 

Or maybe your anxiety and silence has built up to where you aren't thinking quite clearly, and now believing that you're annoying your date, when it may be the complete opposite. Being with a woman who's independent and doesn't need a man is a HUGE accomplishment! That means that every minute you're with her is great for the both of you! Her in that you're more than likely not the type of man to do things for her and demand certain things in return, or make her feel uncomfortable telling her how she needs to be.. and You in the sense that she's not going to lean on you to do *everything* for her. She doesn't need your money. Your presence. Your anything... she WANTS it. So know that when you're around, she WANTS you to be around. This should be a good feeling. Also.. move on from the ex. Who cares what she used to say and act. She's your ex for a reason. There may *always* be slight similarities, as it's ultimately human nature; and humans tend to be... human about things. But that doesn't always make them alike. At the same time, do make sure your list of red flags (both from your own preferences, and from past exes) are set in stone, and you can recognize the warning signs that will allow you to move on.

 

 

So what did I do? Just like the good little BIT*H I am, carried her upstairs from the couches downstairs to her bed, gave her a full body massage, then kissed her and said goodbye. All she said was "OK bye" but did give me a kiss. I guess I would have appreciated more affection. But maybe I'm too needy. I can't figure out the difference between what's a reasonable expectation of what your "love language" is (mine are words of affirmation and physical touch) and being too needy. I don't want to come across like that.

 

Lol..... Personally, I've had this type of "test" w/ women before, and also ran into those who genuinely were this selfish. You're not too needy BigSpoon. You're just in need of work with communicating yourself more. Whether it's your love language, your desires for the ideal relationship, or how you expect to be treated, you simply need to work on speaking up in this type of situation... Other than that, it'd be nice if we were having a beer at the bar together, because I'd flat out tell you to "get over it" for this last paragraph .. We can share war stories on what women have asked us to do and tag along for in the name of dating and relationships for another day haha.

[gp11a]

I think the bottom line here is what many people here have told you before, and something you realize to be true, but you don't seem to want to take the time and effort to address it: You get way too invested, way too soon, before you even know the person, and you get hurt when your strong feelings aren't reciprocated and/or the woman backs off suddenly.

 

For all intents and purposes, this woman is practically a stranger, yet you asked her to be your girlfriend. At first, I applauded her for telling you she wanted to take things slowly, but then when I read about some of the things that happened the other day, I thought, "Ahhhh....this girl has him exactly where she wants him. She loves the attention, the validation -- she loves how overly invested he already is, and she thinks she can act however she wants, and he'll still stick around." I believe that, if you stick around, things will go downhill pretty fast, and when they do, she'll pull the "But I SAID I wanted to take it SLOW," card on you, thus trying to absolve herself of any responsibility. That whole thing about you being her "slave"? Well, you are, already. She has you wrapped around your finger.

 

I truly believe that, in order for you to have a successful, healthy relationship, you need to address your patterns -- need to think long and hard about a few things, like why you think you need to "seal the deal" and make someone your girlfriend right away. Is there something that triggers this feeling that you need to rush that? Is it sex? Is it desperation to have a girlfriend so that you can stop searching? Is it something else? What were you afraid would happen if you didn't make this girl your girlfriend right away? Were you afraid she'd "get away?" Find someone she liked better? The point of all these questions is to get to the root of why you tend to repeat the same scenario over and over, just with a different girl (remember, the common denominator in all this is you).

 

I also have to question why you like this girl so much -- or whether you really DO like her all that much -- if she's already displaying behaviors that really annoy you --the music thing, being on the phone constantly, expecting you to put together her IKEA furniture (which I hate, too, but I'm a total champ at assembling IKEA stuff!). Again, this is VERY early days. Past behavior is, more often than not, a predictor of future behavior, and if you stick with this girl, it'll be more of the same, and I'm guessing worse, down the road. My concern is that, regardless of how she acts, you'll stick with her because you want to be in a relationship so badly. I hope I'm wrong.

 

I'm sorry to see you've given up therapy. I get that it's pricey, but...priorities. It seems that you're prioritizing finding/having a girlfriend over getting to the bottom of what is preventing you from having a successful relationship. I'm not judging you, but I am pointing that out as a gentle reminder that, if nothing changes, then, well, nothing changes. As the often-ridiculed (but maddeningly accurate, at times) Dr. Phil always says, "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."

 

I know you'll continue with this girl anyway, but...just ask yourself -- and be honest in your answer -- "How long do I want to continue this way?"

 

Very well spoken, browneyedgirl.

 

BigSpoon, when I read your last post... I could not help but think that the dynamics are setting you up to be walked all over by her. She probably thinks she has it made... You need to make YOU a priority and stop trying to figure out people, or trying to keep things going even when you are posting red flags (all of those annoyances). When you spot these things early on in dating, this is usually when you might want to consider dipping out and admit incompatibility, because the things that annoy you now... they're not just going to change.