A Story of Cheating and Engagement

[overthemoon86]

Hi there,

 

This is a story about my sister and I am really seeking guidance on how to handle this. It has been such a roller coaster for my family and frankly I am heart broken with her choices. I wanted to get your thoughts on the situation and how to handle it as a sister.

 

My sister is 22 years old, has lived at home her whole life, currently going to school, and has been dating her current boyfriend (now fiance) for 8 years...they have been together since she was 14 and he is her only boyfriend. He is 25 years old and has dated a couple of other before her. He recently has his own apartment and his job situation is not that stable.

 

Over this past summer, their relationship was really hitting the rocks, they were fighting all the time, really ugly. She was going away for school for the first time in their relationship and it was causing a lot of problems. He is really controlling person and he wanted her to drop out of school and marry him, promising her that he could take care of her. (On what income...I don't know). He still lived at home at that point and marriage seemed to be his ultimatum.

 

She ended up going off to school and their relationship got even worse...he was very distance, kept trying to break up with her, wanting to go on breaks, but she would not let him. Finally he broke up with her two weeks into her being at school and would not take no for an answer. She called me hysterically crying and come to find out he had been cheating on her for months. He told my sister that he loves the other girl and wants to be with her. Totally dumps my sister, moves in with the other girl and doesn't talk to my sister for a whole 2.5 months.

 

During this time, I spent a lot of time with her, consoling her, trying to help her see that it is better this happens now, she can enjoy college, find herself...but of course she was still devastated. Then all of sudden the phone calls stopped and she stopped asking me to visit her...I knew something was up. I checked on facebook and noticed they were friends on FB again, of course I called her asked her what was going on and she said they were just talking again. I told her to be cautious, there were so many red flags in this. Suddenly the other girl broke up with him and now he goes crawling back to my sister...sounds fishy to me.

 

Fast forward to Christmas (really just four weeks later after they started talking) and they were back together. He never apologized to my parents or my family for his actions. Never even made an attempt. My parents just thought this was temporary and they would drift apart again.

 

One week later...he proposed to her! My family and I found out on facebook...and he never even asked my dad for his approval. Frankly, I am so disappointed. I never called her to congratulate her because I believe that facebook is not an engagement announcement to your family. And there are SOOOOO many unanswered questions. Did she forget that a little more than a month ago he wanted nothing to do with her and now he wants to marry her? Sounds pretty impulsive, irresponsible, and immature to me.

 

Anyway, I haven't really spoken to my sister since this happened...I talked to her once and she was angry at me for not calling to congratulate her.

 

I would love your opinion on this. Thank you.

[DancingFool]

I think that you need to somehow separate out in your head what's family business and what's couple business. What happens between two people in the relationship is ultimately between the two people and the only person who needs to forgive and accept apologies is your sister. As for him asking your dad for permission.....it's really old fashioned and while some families might still expect that, realize that others would be weirded out by that. In short, you can't really hold that against him because there is no longer a set standard and one size fits all tradition about that. It sounds like you all are really close as a family, however be aware that there is a fine line where being close can turn into too much strife and meddling in things that should be left alone.

 

Ultimately, as much as you love your sister and don't want to see her get hurt, you do need to let her go and live her life, make her mistakes and even fall flat on her face. It's her life to live, her mistakes to make, and her consequences to live with. Since you say that he is controlling, etc. the best that you can do is actually bite your tongue, be tolerant with your sister and make sure that if she is ever in trouble down the road, that she can turn to you for help without fearing criticism or even an I told you so. That is the best that you can do for her. If anything, the more you all disapprove the more she might get pushed to him and away from you all. So don't do it.

[mhowe]

Agree with DancingFool.

 

What is he supposed to apologize to your parents for?

 

Her life ---- her choices, her mistakes, her lessons.

[redswim30]

He doesn't owe your family an apology, an explanation or otherwise.

 

Unless your sister is 12, she can make her own decisions. She must want to be with him for a reason, even if you don't understand why. It's her life and her choices.

I understand the need to protect her, but she is going to make mistakes in life and sometimes people need to make them to grow and learn.

 

If you want a relationship with your sister, don't be petty about the Facebook stuff. Call her, congratulate her, tell her you hope she is happy and that you will be there for her anytime.

Sounds like she might need you to be. The last you should do is alienate her for choices you don't agree with.

[redswim30]

PS I would NEVER marry a man who asked my Dad for approval. That would pretty much guarantee that I Would say no. He's marrying ME, not my Dad!!!!!

[bulletproof]

My family and I found out on facebook...and he never even asked my dad for his approval...I never called her to congratulate her because I believe that facebook is not an engagement announcement to your family.

 

These are your views. Your sister doesn't have to share them. Just like you don't share her view of her bf as marriage material.

 

I agree with the others; put your own thoughts/feelings aside and support her. You don't have to be dishonest, but you can make your feelings known once, kindly, and move on. She likely already knows how you feel anyway.

[overthemoon86]

Just a little more clarity on my parents relationship with my sister's boyfriend. First off, my family is pretty traditional and both my sister and I were instilled with traditional values. My parents don't expect the men that we will eventually marry ask for our hand in marriage, but it really is the best way to start off on a positive foot for everyone. My parents want to feel included in serious decisions such as marriage (really the only thing in this category is marriage) and not for them to have a say, but more for them to feel included. I respect that and I would want my future husband to respect that as well.

 

My parents were extremely saddened by my sister's boyfriend's actions. My sister was an absolute mess when they broke up and were privy to all the TMI details. She tried to quit school, called my mom countless times in tears saying she could not go on. That is a lot of anyone's parents to bear. On top of that, they treated him like a son, he practically lived at my parents house and they really took him in and provided for him like he was their own child. So to disrespect their daughter like that is heartbreaking for them. The least he could do was have a conversation with them...not saying that it is going to fix everything, but at the very least talk to them.

 

Our entire family was disappointed over the facebook announcement. It is petty...hence why their decision to get married is immature. If they cannot announce it to their family properly, they are not going to get the support they are expecting. I should not be finding out about my ONLY sister's engagement on the internet and no one had a clue this was going to happen. It would have been nice for my sister to contact the immediate family before putting that online for us to find out.

[overthemoon86]

Just one more thing to add, when I did speak with my sister after the engagement, my sister told me that she was totally blind sided by the engagement....she had no idea he was going to ask her to marry him. In other words, they never talked about it. My sister obviously knows there is tension between my parents and her boyfriend because they all went to a Christmas party at her boyfriend's parents house and her boyfriend never even said hello to my parents...definitely not good. My sister was really mad at him for that. So when he got down on one knee the first thing she said before he even got any words out was "did you call my father?" Of course his answer was no. Obviously my sister still said yes, but she was disappointed that he didn't include our parents.

[mhowe]

Well...the chances of it coming to fruition approach nil. They have made a desperate move to solidify a broken relationship. Any anything said to pull them apart will push them together in a Romeo/Juliette "they are all against us" scenario.

 

So...let them be. But don't lose your sister over this.

 

My sister married a guy my parents couldn't stand. It lasted 3 years. While I wasn't fond of him, I regularly called or visited my sister. More often when he wasn't around.

[overthemoon86]

Right, I definitely agree as well...I haven't said anything at all really...except when I talk with my parents...my sister knows how I feel, but I have not bombarded her with directives or disapproval. I guess I just feel concerned for her well being. I know he was intimate with the other girl...so I encouraged my sister to get tested, I don't know if she actually did. And he was also pretty heavily into drugs as well...so I am not sure where he stands with that as my sister is definitely NOT into that. He also has been racking up the credit card debt from what my sister tells me and has been switching jobs every two to three months. He has even asked my sister to pay for things...she even got him a flat screen tv for Christmas. Now remember my sister is in school and has no job...they pretty much fight over money CONSTANTLY.

 

mhowe, how did you deal with the situation with your sister?

 

Thanks

[mhowe]

I was in her wedding party. She lived about 15 minutes from me...so I called or stopped by when he wasn't around. He attended dinners etc with our family. She got pregnant, but it was eptopic so she couldn't keep the pregnancy. He cheated on her...my parents gladly paid for the divorce to get her out of the marriage...as they were upside down on the mortgage.

 

She married again...has been with #2 for 20 years and they have a 15 yr old son.

[overthemoon86]

I am sorry to hear about your sister's first marriage...it sounds like she is in a much better relationship now.

 

I guess I am hopeful that both my sister and my parents can avoid the costly wedding, messy divorce and whatever else comes with that. I know that my parents will not get her out of her marriage financially if things don't go right. I know this a very new engagement so hopefully they work out their differences before they walk down the aisle.

 

It's really difficult to sit back and watch someone make a terrible mistake which could cost them emotionally and financially.

[mhowe]

My parents paid for both her weddings. It was her life and her decision... They didn't agree with it. However...the wedding was only about 50 people...immediate family and his/her friends. Held at my parents summer house.

 

Live and learn.

[itsallgrand]

My parents paid for both her weddings. It was her life and her decision.

 

This made me chuckle. And no offense meant. But her choice, her life...but not her money? haha.

 

I think your sister is being manipulative right now by getting angry at you for not calling to congratulate her fast enough or on her terms. She sounds quite dependent to me. Financially and emotionally; on your family, and on this guy. Understandable...but still...she's 22 now...time to let the reigns out a bit. And time for her to start realizing the world does not revolve around her dramas. It may take her a while to get there. And it may take your family a while too - I guess she is the baby?! It may take her a while to let this guy go; and that's understandable, even if she does do some self defeating things in the meantime. She has the right to marry him if she wants to.

 

Consistent support without taking crap is the way to go, IMO. The next time she calls you, and she will, I would call her out on that little tantrum. Explain that you were waiting for the official announcement, and you did not do it to hurt her. And tell her that you want to keep things open to talk to each other and see each other no matter what is going on in your lives - see if she will be willing to put those kinds of issues aside as well. It takes two for a relationship. Not just one; and the other one running away whenever things get hard. She's old enough now to talk to about this.

You don't have to like all her choices and she doesn't have to like all of yours. So long as you both know and show that you love each other and will always be there for each other.

If the two of you can get on board this kind of agreement, then it won't matter what happens ....if the engagement falls through, if she marries him, if all hell breaks loose, anything...so long as there is that mutual trust love and respect there.

 

just my two cents.

[overthemoon86]

Thanks itsallgrand, I appreciate you getting involved...I have definitely kept the lines of communication open and let her know how I feel, but I don't play into her dramas...because it really is just so DRAMATIC. She is the baby...I am about 5 years older than her. I went through a breakup about 8 months before hers and I was devastated...she never called me, never came over to hang out, didn't spend any time with me while I was going through the worst period of my life...her message was consistent that I would find someone better and I needed to get over my boyfriend...she was probably right, but her tone hurt me. I am not saying that what I did for her was right, but I was there ever second for her while she was bawling her eyes out telling me she couldn't go on with her life. We talked four times a day and I was at her school every weekend.

 

It's just so disappointing to me that she has to turn around and go down the same destructive path because it's all she knows and she turns her back on everyone that has supported her.

 

It's only a matter of time before her man leaves her again...he is the most impulsive guy I have ever met. Mind you he was "in love" with another girl like two months ago. There will be another girl that comes along...only time will tell. I just hope she isn't in such a bad situation that I won't be able to help. I sure as heck can barely support myself let alone someone else...and my parents are the same way.

[mhowe]

She was the baby of the family...and my mom had to pay for her own wedding and vowed her daughters would not. They were very generous parents in very many ways.

[bulletproof]

 

Our entire family was disappointed over the facebook announcement. It is petty...hence why their decision to get married is immature. If they cannot announce it to their family properly, they are not going to get the support they are expecting. I should not be finding out about my ONLY sister's engagement on the internet and no one had a clue this was going to happen. It would have been nice for my sister to contact the immediate family before putting that online for us to find out.

 

Right, it would have been nice, but she's not obligated to do anything. It's her engagement, so she can do it the way she wants to. She obviously doesn't agree with the traditional ways of the rest of the family. I think you need to let go what you think she should have done and just accept what she's done, to some degree. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but accepting it will probably make things a lot easier on everyone. And let your parents worry about whether they're hurt by their behavior and his lack of apology. You really don't have to worry about that.

[overthemoon86]

I know that she doesn't have to do anything...it's HER engagement, you are right. I don't think she wants "tradition" so to speak, but more inclusion of our family that has been in her life and supported her since her birth. She was upset that he didn't call my father, especially after everything that had happened. If you don't want to alienated from my parents, don't treat them like they don't exist. And frankly that really goes for me too. Don't expect me to be jumping up and down when you cursed his existence for 3 months and then turn around and say you are going to marry him. Her seeking my approval on someone that she essentially hated is pretty backwards. I understand that people change and they change their minds, but it hasn't been that long!

 

My beliefs are obviously not shared by everyone. I totally understand that and everyone walks their own path. But the way they are expecting everyone to jump on board with this, is pretty ridiculous. Engagement/Marriage doesn't have to be a selfish act where the only two people that matter are those getting married. Obviously that is the MOST IMPORTANT part, but marriage can be shared by everyone that the couple loves.

[overthemoon86]

Hi there, I just wanted to share a small update.

 

I spent the last couple of days with my parents and my father shared with me a meeting that he just had with my sister's future husband. Her future husband called a meeting with my dad, which I think was actually really good of him, showed maturity, and respect for my family. However, it sounded like the meeting did not go so well. My father explained his disappointment with him going out and starting another relationship with another girl while still with my sister and then crawling back to her to quickly try to marry her. My sister's fiance then said well actually it was two girls...seriously? you needed to say that? Then he goes on to say, "well if you were your father would you be sitting down talking to your future wife?" Which really has nothing to do with one another...and he was the one who wanted to talk to my dad!

 

Anyway, it was kind of a nasty meeting and then a week or so later, my sister's fiance texted my dad and asked if he wanted to go out for a beer. My dad told me he never responded, he is not going to be buddies with him.

 

This is just getting sadder by the minute....

[redswim30]

I don't think she wants "tradition" so to speak, but more inclusion of our family that has been in her life and supported her since her birth. She was upset that he didn't call my father, especially after everything that had happened. If you don't want to alienated from my parents, don't treat them like they don't exist. And frankly that really goes for me too.

 

My beliefs are obviously not shared by everyone. I totally understand that and everyone walks their own path. But the way they are expecting everyone to jump on board with this, is pretty ridiculous. Engagement/Marriage doesn't have to be a selfish act where the only two people that matter are those getting married. Obviously that is the MOST IMPORTANT part, but marriage can be shared by everyone that the couple loves.

 

But do you care more about traditions than about your sister? I have siblings, and they make choices I disagree with. But at the end of the day, it's more important for me to love them than judge them.

 

IMVHO, you should try to avoid a "you deserve it" attitude if your parents don't approve. You never know where life may take you, and someday you may make a choice that not everyone in your family agrees with.

Would you want to be shunned?

 

I think marriage is absolutely just between the two people getting married and no one else. They are the people in the marriage, so ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, because they don't have to live it every day.

I don't think that is selfish. You can pretend marriage is "shared", but it isn't. No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors besides those two people. I understand your concern, but your sister has to make her own mistakes.

I was married and divorced, now I am happily remarried.

I had to make some of the mistakes I made in my first marriage in order to have a more successful and MUCH happier marriage now.

No one in my family got a say in my divorce or remarriage. I hoped they would be supportive (and they were!) by had they not been, I wouldn't have done anything differently. I might have just cut them out of my life.

Or thought that they didn't love or support me unconditionally and pulled further away from them.

 

Like it or not, your sister is an adult. And it was NOT classy for your dad to bring up the fiancées mistakes to his father. That was wrong of him.

Most parents don't react well to other people judging their children or their children's mistakes. If someone was bashing one of my kids, you don't WANT to know what I'd say to them!!!!!

Even if it was true, it's petty, immature, rude, and unnecessary. (And be fair, would your father have reacted well if his father started saying rude things about your sister?)

He can't go back in time. And if it bothered your sister THAT much, she could have said NO to his proposal, but she didn't.

So, she loves him more than she hates his past mistakes. It doesn't matter if you do, you aren't marrying him. She isn't judging him, so why should you? If things turn out badly, they do.

 

I still think you should support her. Supporting her is NOT the same as supporting him. Tell her you love her and that you'll always be there for her.

The more you and your family resist this, the more she is going to turn towards him and away from your family.

 

You don't have to like him. You don't have to like the fact that they are getting married. But you SHOULD love your sister and be there for her.

Family is for life, you know there's as strong chance this marriage won't be. (but you never know, they COULD prove you all VERY wrong!- I've seen it happen)

 

Your sister needs you now more than ever. You can't stop her, control her, change her. Don't try. Just be a loving sister. THAT is what she needs from you.

[overthemoon86]

I know that it has been 10 months or so now, but just wanted to give an update...or maybe just vent. Actually just vent.

 

I have read everyone's comments on here over and over, they really helped me try and be "supportive" and put the past aside. Especially when I was feeling doubt and completely overwhelmed by the situation. It is exhausting, I am not going to lie. I know this is my sister's life and she needs to make her own choices and everything happens for a reason. I have to keep reminding myself that I am not the one marrying him, I do not have to live with that everyday.

 

But what I am having a hard time dealing with is how he is at every family dinner we have in fact every time I visit my parent's house, he is there...and I just cannot deal with him. His personality is absolutely exhausting, he is arrogant, rude, condescending, and completely controlling. Every conversation we have at the dinner table he has be in control. Not to mention the way he argues with my parents (and me) is absolutely absurd. I have to get up from the table multiple times so I don't start screaming at him.

 

My boyfriend met him for the first time a couple of months ago and obviously he has heard how much I dislike him. However, he told me he was going to keep an open mind and he couldn't have been that bad. As soon as we got to the car to drive home, he said "Wow, now I understand...what an a** h***".

 

It honestly makes me dread going to my parent's house...or go to any family gathering. Not to mention my sister and her fiance were extremely upset with me a couple of months back because I could not go to their engagement party because I booked a trip to Portugal before they even got back together. Of course they bring it up every time I see them.

 

To be honest, writing this out made me feel a little better about things.

 

Now back to Monday.

[appies]

You don't have to like him, hell you don't even really need to talk to him. Unfortunately it is still your sisters decision to make. Deep down I'm sure she knows he is rude and arrogant but has made a choice to stick with him. All you can do is support her and hope eventually she gets her priorities straight with him.

[Lester]

Unions/marriages built on circumstances, false/non commitment and other superfluous anchors* rarely last.

That's not to say such faux-unions can't last for decades, ruin your life and your relationship(s) with your sister and family.

*You, family, friends, affairs, money or anything they can fight about.

 

What to do:

See/enjoy your sister/parents separately. Listen but don't get pulled into discussions about him.

At parties, listen, smile, endure then leave and forget.

If possible, stop/reduce looking at facebook.

 

It's her/theirs life.

[dias]

Keep a connection and talk with your sister regularly as you do. He seems to has a huge influence on your sister but don't let him drive you apart from her. Better chat with her when he is absent.

[overthemoon86]

Thank you everyone for your input, I definitely know that this is her decision and I cannot do anything about it. I try to be the most supportive person I can through all of this, it definitely is challenging! I guess I wish it didn't affect me as much. I try my best to ignore him and not let his comments make me feel angry. In the back of my mind I really wish they would just break up, what a relief that would be...and for her too.