Going out with an ex's friend

[csdude55]

I've been out of the game for awhile, so what's the rule on going out with the friend of an ex?

 

Ex and I were talking for several months, and getting serious, but never "official". She broke up with me to reconcile with her ex a few weeks ago.

 

For the last several weeks, I was texting with her friend / distant relative (like 3rd or 4th cousin), purely as friends*. She knew about her cousin and I, but I don't think she knew that we were getting serious. I told her when I was dumped, though, and a few days later she asked me on a date. I told her we could go out as friends, but I was definitely not ready to get my heart involved. She didn't push it, so we just sort of let the idea go.

 

Now, it's a week later, and she mentioned going out one evening next week. I said OK, but haven't set a date or location or anything; it's kind of up in the air right now.

 

Pros: she's absolutely gorgeous; she's funny; we have a lot in common; and she's intelligent enough for serious conversations (we talk about religion and politics a lot).

 

Cons: she actually looks a LOT like my ex, who I still love and would take back in a heartbeat (which circles back to the "gorgeous" pro); I'm still hung up on someone else, so there's a good chance this would be a rebound; going out with her probably won't help my chances of winning the ex back**; and there's a good chance that it could damage their friendship if my ex still has feelings for me or feels slighted.

 

Thoughts? Is the friend of the ex off limits for the dumpee?

 

 

* For those that read my previous posts, this is the girl that claims to have "never kissed like that", whatever that means.

 

** The ex is a hard variable for me. I'm still head-over-heels in love, but in our last conversation she told me that she's falling back in love with her ex (although he's abusive, he's the father of her children) and doesn't think she loves me anymore. Romantically, I don't know how we can recover from that one. Plus, I don't know how I'd feel about being her second choice, so if she did want me back she'd have to do some work to make me open my heart again. Our connection was nothing short of magical, though, so in my dream world she would realize that she made a huge mistake and beg me back.

[ThatwasThen]

Cons: she actually looks a LOT like my ex, who I still love and would take back in a heartbeat

Why are you even thinking about going out with someone else (friend of an ex or anyone else) when you are still in love with someone?

 

What a horrible thing to be doing to any girl you get with.

[csdude55]

Good question. I guess the answer is because everyone I know (including posts on here) say or imply that I'm not doing myself any favors by sitting around hoping for a girl to come back that is trying to reconcile with her ex.

 

Who knows, maybe she and I would hit it off, and I'd forget all about the ex? We're just talking about dinner.

[HeartGoesOn]

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you take the time to slow down, and smell the coffee. At the rate you're going, you're bound to crash well before you know what hit you.

[Iggles]

If you're still in love with your Ex, going on a date with her cousin is a disastrous idea. Plus, you are being misleading by not disclosing to the cousin that you and your Ex were getting serious. It's a little gross she would want to mess around with the same guy who sexed up her cousin. Let her decide on that one with her eyes wide open.

[Feast]

Disagree, go out with the cousin. Your ex broke it off and you don't owe her anything, she's dating the father of her children, hard to morally get in the way of that. If the cousin is gorgeous and a great catch, go out with her. I know your not ready, not over your ex, but you know, I'm tired of people missing out on a good thing, potentially a great thing by playing by the rules. If you think this girl is a great catch, go out with her, you'll probably find your over your ex real fast. Better than thinking about your ex for months while she dates someone else. Maybe not fair to the cousin, but she knows what's up anyway.

[csdude55]

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you take the time to slow down, and smell the coffee. At the rate you're going, you're bound to crash well before you know what hit you.

 

I think you're saying that I should try not dating anyone for awhile.

 

This may sound pathetic and immature, but for me, I think this is a pretty dangerous idea. You see, I just ended a 20 year relationship that I stayed in for 12+ years too long, mainly because I thought of myself as undesirable. There was no love in the relationship, but we got along well, and I thought that was the best I could hope for.

 

I've only recently come up with the fortitude to start over, thanks in no small part to the fact that I've had a few other women express interest in me, changing my perception of myself.

 

Here's where the pathetic part kicks in: give me 3 months of being alone, no real friends, and no one expressing interest in me, and I'm going to start thinking that I made a huge mistake, and eventually find myself crawling back to the safety of the ex that I know I don't love. I would like to think I'm stronger than that, but I've seen it a thousand times with other men.

 

 

Plus, you are being misleading by not disclosing to the cousin that you and your Ex were getting serious. It's a little gross she would want to mess around with the same guy who sexed up her cousin.

 

Just to clarify:

 

1. I never said anything about sex. We talked several times a day for months (every day, without fail), we both said "I love you" several times, we had one (incredible) kiss, and talked about a future together, which is what I meant by "serious".

 

2. The story between the ex and I is a little complicated. She was on a break with her ex when we connected, then they got back together, but our relationship grew emotionally anyway. She later made a decision to give him a "real" chance, which meant leaving me out of her life. And I can't really blame her for that; like Feast said, we're talking about the father of her children here, and it's hard for me to justify getting in the way of that if they can be happy together.

 

Now, her current boyfriend (the father of her children) doesn't know about me at all, so this isn't exactly my secret to divulge... especially not to her cousin. The last thing I would want to do is tell all of this to her cousin, then find out that she's a gossip and tells everyone else. Keeping it a secret is wrong, but not keeping it a secret is wrong, so... it's a moral gray area, I think.

 

Besides, I'm not a total jerk. It's not like I would do anything physical with one woman while dreaming of another.

 

 

Disagree, go out with the cousin. Your ex broke it off and you don't owe her anything, she's dating the father of her children, hard to morally get in the way of that. If the cousin is gorgeous and a great catch, go out with her. I know your not ready, not over your ex, but you know, I'm tired of people missing out on a good thing, potentially a great thing by playing by the rules. If you think this girl is a great catch, go out with her, you'll probably find your over your ex real fast. Better than thinking about your ex for months while she dates someone else. Maybe not fair to the cousin, but she knows what's up anyway.

 

This was kind of my thought, too. I think of myself as a romantic, and do believe in "soul mates" and "true love", so the idea of my potential soul mate being off limits just because of a previous mistake doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

And if you believe in destiny, maybe the whole reason that I even met the ex was so that she could introduce me to her cousin?

 

But I've recently learned that I'm an idiot and my own worst enemy, so I don't know how much I trust my own judgement anymore.

[CraigHowes]

This is way deeper than anyone on this forum can advise you on. I would disagree with feasts advice.

 

You think of yourself as undesirable to women and attach yourself to one in order to feel complete hence why you stayed in a loveless relationship because that's what you thought you deserved.

 

Without self love and your own identity you will always look for other people to validate who you are. This is not healthy and something you need to work on.

 

When you put your value into someone else's hands you lose self respect and worth. Your value and who you are comes from within.

 

Dating her cousin will eventually come round to your ex and they will talk to each other causing major drama. Plus if she looks a lot like your ex I fear you are just looking for a replacement.

 

I would honestly stay single for a while and maybe seek professional help to deal with your issues and your worth.

 

"Here's where the pathetic part kicks in: give me 3 months of being alone, no real friends, and no one expressing interest in me, and I'm going to start thinking that I made a huge mistake, and eventually find myself crawling back to the safety of the ex that I know I don't love. I would like to think I'm stronger than that, but I've seen it a thousand times with other men."

 

This is not healthy and this is your issue to deal with, you can't mask it within another person because it's still there. A healthy long lasting relationship is built on honesty and trust. Your not being honest with yourself or her and if you can't trust your own judgement then your not ready.

 

Stop running from your issues and finally face up to them.

[csdude55]

You're right, we're getting way deeper than I'd intended. I was really just wondering what you guys considered right and wrong, whether the friend / distant cousin of an ex is off limits.

 

I have to say, though... doesn't pretty much everyone determine their self worth based on their perceived value to others? Whether it's by the quantity or attractiveness of the opposite sex that express interest, number of close friends, accolades from their superiors at work, etc? How many movies and TV shows are based on that very thing? I just finished watching an episode of 30 Rock (on Netflix), and it seems like the whole show is based on characters struggling with that same issue.

 

I really don't have any close friends; I have business associates and drinking buddies, but no one I consider a "real" friend (the ones I did consider a real friend are now either exes or potential dates). Knowing that, wouldn't anyone start to question their decisions if they went several months with no close human interaction? Or would a "normal" person be OK with being completely alone for extended periods of time?

 

(Note, I mean those questions literally. I have no idea what other people feel, or what's supposed to be "normal". For all I know, I could be like a sociopath watching Dexter and thinking, "see, I'm pretty normal, after all")

[Sportster2005]

Do what you want. Just be open and communicate clearly. Let the cousin know you would dump her if your ex comes around. If she is O.K with that you're good to go. If you don't tell her you are being dishonest by not disclosing this important fact. And dishonesty if never a good thing.

[growfrompain]

I think the general consensus is that it is morally ok to date her cousin, however, if you don't take the time to work on your issues, the same pattern will repeat.

[Mellie]

I'm still hung up on someone else.

 

It's not very nice to lead her up the garden path, whoever she is. You're just setting yourself up for a shed load of drama.

[Iggles]

Ok, I'll bite.

 

You're right, we're getting way deeper than I'd intended. I was really just wondering what you guys considered right and wrong, whether the friend / distant cousin of an ex is off limits.

 

I have to say, though... doesn't pretty much everyone determine their self worth based on their perceived value to others? Whether it's by the quantity or attractiveness of the opposite sex that express interest, number of close friends, accolades from their superiors at work, etc? How many movies and TV shows are based on that very thing? I just finished watching an episode of 30 Rock (on Netflix), and it seems like the whole show is based on characters struggling with that same issue.

 

Knowing your link removed as a concept, is based on having a strong sense of your value as a person based on internal factors. Loving yourself is akin to self acceptance of all that you are, including your flaws.

 

Relying on external factors to determine your self-worth is essentially the opposite. You don't know your value in your own right, so you look for external indicators of what your value is. That is a losing a game, because it's giving other people way too much power over your life. If you have a leadership position at a well paying job, are viewed as a "pillar" of the community you live in, throw holiday parties at your home that are the talk of the season, and are married with a beautiful wife and 2.5 kids you might be happy. But then again you might be insecure as heck, wracked with worrying that at any moment it all come collapsing down. And, if you indeed lose your status you won't know who you are any more.. See the danger here? So what about all the other people NOT on the top of the social heap that based their self-worth on perceived values of other people?? The prognosis is not good at all..

 

I really don't have any close friends; I have business associates and drinking buddies, but no one I consider a "real" friend (the ones I did consider a real friend are now either exes or potential dates). Knowing that, wouldn't anyone start to question their decisions if they went several months with no close human interaction? Or would a "normal" person be OK with being completely alone for extended periods of time?

 

This is the real issue you should fix. You are devoid of satisfying friendships. In the past, romantic partners have allowed for close emotional connections.

 

Instead of looking for a new girlfriend to supply this -- and should the relationship end you'll be back at square one -- it's time to put yourself out there and make new friends. Join meet ups and focus of activity partners. Find likeminded folks, men and women, you can develop one on one friendships with in addition to hanging with in groups.

[csdude55]

Instead of looking for a new girlfriend to supply this -- and should the relationship end you'll be back at square one -- it's time to put yourself out there and make new friends. Join meet ups and focus of activity partners. Find likeminded folks, men and women, you can develop one on one friendships with in addition to hanging with in groups.

 

I'm afraid we're getting WAY deeper than the intent of this thread! LOL But the thing you have to realize is... I've tried. Forever. People seem to really, really like me for about a month. They call me every day, want to hang out every weekend, and they're super excited to see me. After a month or two, though, they get tired of me and never want to talk again.

 

I can't explain it, but it's been like that for as long as I can remember. I've tried every tactic I can think of: I've tried being stand-offish, I've tried giving what I get, I've tried "keeping it light", I've tried getting deep, you name it... it always ends up the same way. It doesn't matter whether the friend is a guy or girl, either.

 

Even the girl I'm talking about in this thread is the same way. She messaged me for the first time on Dec 2, and every morning after she would wake up and send me a message to say hi. It was like I was the first thing on her mind in the morning, and the last thing on her mind at night. She asked me on a date for the first time on Dec 18, and said things like "I think you're amazing". Then she asked me out for a second time on Thursday, Dec 25. Friday, Dec 26 she was being flirty, talking about kissing and turn-ons / turn-offs, and I was flirting back.

 

But then on Saturday, she was a bit cold towards me. It makes no sense at all: our last messages on Friday night were flirty, and her first message to me on Saturday was cold. My last message to her on Saturday was, "What time do you get off tomorrow? I might come by to see you. If you want me to, I mean?" (which I don't think was pushy, since LAST Saturday she asked me to come see her at work on Sunday). She never replied to this message.

 

Today (Sunday), our entire conversation (on Facebook) has been:

 

Me: Hey, beautiful! How was work today?

 

Her: Gud h r u

 

Me: OK so far I like it being warm today, I got to throw a Frisbee with my dog for a while

 

Her: Cool

 

(10 minutes later)

Me: Are you OK? You seem a little... down

 

That was 4 hours ago, and as you can see, it's as cold as ice. She's been posting videos and stuff, but it doesn't show that she's read the message, so I'm obviously being ignored. All I can assume is that the 1-month curse kicked in a little early this time.

 

I'm serious when I say it has ALWAYS been like this for me. Literally every person I've been friends with has either gotten tired of me after a month or so, or tries to date me... or both. That applies to both genders, as far back as middle school. It's obviously me that's the problem (I can't believe that everyone I've ever met has the same problem), I just have no idea what it is.

[Mellie]

Maybe she spoke to her friend/cousin?

[csdude55]

Maybe she spoke to her friend/cousin?

 

I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet; maybe she was just in a bad mood or something. But if she's decided that she doesn't like me now for whatever reason, it's pretty darn rude to not at least say something instead of leaving someone guessing. I don't think she has any right to be mad at me over anything, and we're too dang old for the silent treatment.

 

If you're right, though, then it wouldn't be THAT hard to say "I spoke with Anna, and I don't think we should go out now".

 

I'm hoping that maybe she was just having a bad day. She really is a great catch, and maybe we would have really hit it off and I forgot all about Anna. But if history has taught me anything, she's just lost interest.

[ThatwasThen]

I know your not ready, not over your ex, but you know, I'm tired of people missing out on a good thing, potentially a great thing by playing by the rules.

That's the thing... he WILL miss out on a (possible) good thing because he'll not be able to open up and become vulnerable to the new girl if he's still vulnerable to the old one. When you're still vulnerable to the old one the new one will more likely then not just be a rebound who he will chuck once he gains back his confidence and takes back his mind and heart to a clean slate. If he waits until he's at least indifferent to the ex, he'll have a much better chance of making something long lasting with the new girl. Whether the new girl be the cousin or someone else.

 

I do agree that he owes it to the cousin to advise her that he's not over her cousin but he'd like to take her out to dinner. Let her decide if she's smart enough to tell him no or not.

[csdude55]

I do agree that he owes it to the cousin to advise her that he's not over her cousin but he'd like to take her out to dinner. Let her decide if she's smart enough to tell him no or not.

 

FWIW, this was pretty clear from the beginning. Most of our earlier conversations were about Anna (the ex) and Jane (the 20 year relationship), and on Dec 17 I was talking about how I was sad and depressed because of my last conversation with Anna. The next day was when she asked me on a date, and I told her that we could go out as friends, but I wasn't ready to get my heart involved yet.

 

On Dec 26, she asked if I was still in love with Anna (remember, she asked me out again on Dec 25, and I said OK). My reply:

 

Me: Mm, that's a tough one, too. I really am, yes. She and I connected on what I thought was a very deep, emotional level, and I was completely in love. But if she doesn't love me back, there's not a lot I can do about that. I can't make someone love me that doesn't.

 

I don't want to be someone's second choice, you know?

 

Her: I understand

 

Me: I really do like you a lot, too, though. And if Anna isn't interested in me, then I'd really like to see if you and I connect like that

 

Her:

 

We kept chatting that night, and it was an hour or so later that we started to get a little flirty. So I don't think I've been deceptive here at all.

 

****

 

It's irrelevant at this point, though. We were talking about going out tonight (Monday), and since our conversation on Sunday (that I pasted earlier) I sent one more message this morning, asking if we were still on for tonight. She's been posting on her FB page, but hasn't replied since she said "Cool" on Sunday, so I guess that's a "no".

 

I really wish I knew what I did wrong, but like I said before, this happens literally every time, with everybody, whether it's a friend or a date. I can count off 20 examples without even thinking about it. I don't know why I bother getting excited anymore.

 

This is the kind of thing that will inevitably send me crawling back to the safety of the ex that I know I don't love (the one I was with for 20 years). There's clearly something about me that just turns people off, and it's extremely depressing. For whatever reason, she was able to get past it, so maybe a loveless relationship with a friend really is the best I can hope for.

[ThatwasThen]

Oh she sounds like a real winner. You won't accept being your ex's second choice but this new girl is willing to be yours? SMH.

[HeartGoesOn]

Oh she sounds like a real winner. You won't accept being your ex's second choice but this new girl is willing to be yours? SMH.

 

I was just getting ready to say this. Spot on!

[csdude55]

Oh she sounds like a real winner. You won't accept being your ex's second choice but this new girl is willing to be yours? SMH.

 

I'm getting the feeling that you guys aren't really romantic at all. Or maybe I'm just an idiot. I don't know.

 

IMO, there's a pretty big difference. When I met this girl, I was already in a relationship (as screwed up as it was) with Anna. We didn't really connect or anything until after Anna and I broke up.

 

This is similar to how Anna and I were; we were friends before, but didn't really connect romantically until her and her boyfriend were on a break.

 

Now, after I gave Anna my heart and soul, she still went back to her ex. So now, if she came back, I would be her second choice.

 

This is different from the girl in this thread and I, because I haven't gone back to Anna after we started to connect.

 

If I DID go back to Anna, then broke up and wanted to come back to her friend... THAT would be making her a second choice.

 

I can't control time, and it wasn't my choice to meet this girl after meeting Anna. Had I met her first, there's a good chance that I would have connected with her instead of Anna.

 

Or maybe I'm just trying to justify everything to myself. Like I said before, it's not like I can really trust my own judgement; I let my heart overrule my head.

[Ms Darcy]

Just be honest with her cousin and tell her that you'd take the other girl back but you are willing to see if you are interested in her for now. See if she's smart enough to make her own decision.

[Capricorn3]

OP has started another thread as a continuation of this one. Thread closed.