liar, liar, how can I live with one?

[Kattie]

My spouse has the habit of saying things to mislead me and doesn’t follow through on the things he says. I am looking for advice on how to deal with it. This is the latest example:

 

My husband recently bought himself a telescope for about $3K. After 1 month he decided that he would like to upgrade it to something more expensive and bigger. He came to me to ask for my blessing with the understanding that he would sell off the one he has first. I’ll also mention that money is extremely tight, and that we are still paying down a very large debt. Needless to say, I wasn’t thrilled with the idea, but I agreed as long as he could recover his money from the first one.

 

Since the new one is due to arrive any day now, I asked my husband yesterday how the sale of the old one is going. He informed me that he decided to keep them both, and that it doesn’t make that big a difference to our finances, so it shouldn’t be a problem.

 

Due to these sorts of lies, I don’t feel I can trust anything he says. I find this a tough thing to live with. One side of me says it is just a telescope; many men go out and do worse. The other part of me is annoyed and uncomfortable living with a liar. I feel manipulated and disappointed in him and in myself for always giving him the benefit of the doubt that the next time he will mean what he says.

 

Please help me sort these feelings out and tell me what you would do.

[mhowe]

It isn't the telescope per se, it is the manipulation and sense of entitlement.

 

I think you should stop "giving in" and tell him that he doesn't need 2 of them, and put it up for sale. It does make a difference.

 

And in addition, a discussion of how behavior like this makes you feel like you canot trust him.

[laninaperdida]

Is it a joint debt ?

Who makes more money?

Do you have things you buy on a regular basis?

(They don't need to be expensive habits... Getting your nails done every 30 days like moi can add up to a telescope easily.)

These questions matter.

If he makes more money than I understand his entitlement when it comes to buying things he wants.

If it's your school debt, the again ,I understand .... He's there to help you, of course, but if he wants a telescope he can as far as I'm concerned, tight or not.

Regardless of the premise, I agree with the above poster and it's more about the manipulation that's occurring than anything.

He's lying, but not quite.

That's how some people approach problems so you'll never be able to change them in this aspect.

I know, I'm one of them.

You need to...not beat him at his own game per we, but work around it....be one step ahead.

If you're not than you're going to feel as though he's lying and manipulating you (and he is, slightly) and problems will snowball.

He's your husband , you should know him well enough to stop it before it starts.

You should have made the condition of selling his first telescope before the other one absolutely mandatory.

You left the option of recovering those funds... That's wiggle room.

I don't have this issue with my SO, but I've encountered enough tricksy and non confrontational people to know how to navigate them.

[autumnsun]

What a selfish guy.

 

Money is tight and he spends 3k on a telescope? For what? Does it add to his professional life? Or is this just a super expensive, irresponsible hobby for your current financial state?

 

He needs to be told how this not only impacts your financial stability day-to-day, but how it also makes you feel foolish, lied to and manipulated. No point being gentle with the delivery... he needs to know the honest truth. If he doesn't see where you're coming from, then I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like he enjoys getting what he wants, when he wants and pays no mind to how it impacts you both as a unit.

 

I would also photograph and put the first one up for sale on my own. If he isn't going to be proactive, do it yourself. He does not need thousands of dollars worth of telescopes.

[annie24]

If money is tight and he is buying 2 telescopes (not for his job, I presume) then yes, I do think that is lavish. How would he feel if you decided to buy a $3000 Christian Dior purse this weekend? You know, it doesn't change things much. The telescope sounds like a luxury item, not a need.

[laninaperdida]

I would also photograph and put the first one up for sale on my own. If he isn't going to be proactive, do it yourself. He does not need thousands of dollars worth of telescopes.

 

This is awesome, lol.

If you can't stop something before it starts make sure you go on damage control.

He got the new one with the verbal agreement was to sell the old one so you are entitled to sell it the same way he was to keep it.

Let him come home one day with it gone and something paid off.

This takes balls, scheming, and planning so I doubt it will actually go through.... Some people just don't have it in the, and they are usually the ones people like your husband can talk around.

[Kattie]

- Our debt is joint but he was the cause.

- We both work and earn about the same income.

- All bank accounts are joint.

- I am not a big spender. Sometimes I indulge the kids in camps, good equipment, and a few extras. I won't start to keep up with him.

- I am fed up of the "greasiness" of these manipulations. It seems more like politics that working as a unit.

- I DON'T want to treat him like a child and take responsibility for recovering the money. I hope that is not the job of a wife.

[mhowe]

Your last point ---- if you don't hold him to his word --- that it would be sold, you are condoning his behavior and will continue to increase your debt

with these bonehead purchases of his.

[annie24]

Maybe it is time to separate your finances - i.e., have a separate account for "fun" purchases like telescopes, and not adding to your additional debt.

[IAmFCA]

It is not the job of a wife. You can love him as a wife, while you protect your assets as an individual.

 

So it is your job as a financial partner. You entered into a financial partnership with an irresponsible partner, and now you have to take action.

 

Establish individual accounts for yourself. On your own. You do not need his permission to do this.

 

Better: Tell him this is the plan: You each have individual accounts into which your individual pay goes. You have one joint account, into which you each contribute a certain amount of money each month. Agree to what that account will pay for: household expenses as well as children's expenses. Whatever you each have left over, you each save on your own. See Suze Orman - like her or not, she espouses this plan and so her website may be a useful reference. One of my friends has been doing this plan for their 25+ year marriage, and very happily.

[Kattie]

I guess the biggie for me is the lack of trust, that I cannot fully believe what comes out his mouth. Oven if the purchases were $10, I would feel just us bummed about being misled.

[mhowe]

Kattie --- I looked at your other posts. This stupid purchase is the least of your worries. His name calling, his bullying --- are you sure you can't leave?

[annie24]

Tell him that he needs to stick to selling one (or returning the one that is coming) because it just doesn't make sense to buy something like that unless it is for his career. And what is he looking at anyway? Galaxies and stars, or hot neighbors??

[Jeffbobo]

Maybe it is time to separate your finances - i.e., have a separate account for "fun" purchases like telescopes, and not adding to your additional debt.

 

This is a good idea. Either that or wap him up side the head with the old telescope. That'll learn'em.

[tattoobunnie]

- Our debt is joint but he was the cause.

- We both work and earn about the same income.

- All bank accounts are joint.

- I am not a big spender. Sometimes I indulge the kids in camps, good equipment, and a few extras. I won't start to keep up with him.

- I am fed up of the "greasiness" of these manipulations. It seems more like politics that working as a unit.

- I DON'T want to treat him like a child and take responsibility for recovering the money. I hope that is not the job of a wife.

 

If it involves you, which is does, it is your job to watch out for your money, no ifs, and, or butts. Sorry, but trust me, you let him run rampant, he will keep running rampant.

[journeynow]

This is part of a bigger issue, isn't it? Name calling, bullying, manipulation, financial irresponsibility.

 

First, and fast, separate finances. Second, marriage counseling. What did he do to cause the joint debt? Third: Tell him he has to return the new telescope. Counseling BEFORE new toys. $3k can go into therapy and paying down debt. Selling the OLD telescope comes before buying the new one.

 

I don't like that this puts you in the role of monitoring his financial behavior, and having to clean up financially after him. Separate discretionary accounts are a good idea, and people do need to have fun, but responsibilities and financial obligations need to be met as well.

[Katrinagirl]

If nothing else, you need to start establishing some boundaries here. IMO, other than treating him like a child, there is not much you can do about "this" particular situation unless you somehow convince him that having two telescopes is extravagant and not necessary, given your current financial situation.

 

However, that said, you need to be firm in telling him that how he handled this entire situation (promising you he would sell the first before getting the second) and then reneging on that promise is UNACCPETABLE, period. You need to be firm in telling him that going forward, that type of manipulation and lying and WILL NOT be tolerated under any circumstances. And that if he continues to lie to you about ANYTHING, you will take the kids and leave.

 

I would be PISSED if my husband pulled that crap with me. Of course he wouldn't because I started setting boundaries with him when we first began dating. NO LYING! And he also tried to manipulate me a few times which I saw right through, and put and end to it by telling him if he didn't stop attempting to control and manipulate me, I'M GONE. And I meant it.... and a couple of times I DID leave him because to be honest when I first met him he was one of the biggest manipulator and controllers I'd ever been with.

 

But I learned that we teach people how to treat us. His previous girlfriends tolerated it and it completely messed them up in the head (I learned this later from other people). So with them, since they tolerated it and he suffered no repercussions from his bad behavior, this sent him the message that women will tolerate it so he continued with the behavior.

 

DON'T tolerate it!! It took my husband a while to learn new behaviors but he did eventually and we had a great marriage.

 

So if it were me, I would get pissed at HIM, and tell him he needs to STOP the lying and STOP the manipulating NOW, otherwise you will take the kids and leave. IMO, this isn't anything that should even be up for discussion. He needs to stop it, immediately.

 

Sorry this sounds a bit harsh, but this brings back memories and it pisses me off that some guys believe they can get away with this crap!

[mhowe]

- Our debt is joint but he was the cause.

- We both work and earn about the same income.

- All bank accounts are joint.

- I am not a big spender. Sometimes I indulge the kids in camps, good equipment, and a few extras. I won't start to keep up with him.

- I am fed up of the "greasiness" of these manipulations. It seems more like politics that working as a unit.

- I DON'T want to treat him like a child and take responsibility for recovering the money. I hope that is not the job of a wife.

 

What kids? From your previous post you said you were in your 50's.

[Katrinagirl]

Kattie --- I looked at your other posts. This stupid purchase is the least of your worries. His name calling, his bullying --- are you sure you can't leave?

 

I would rather live in a shelter with the kids for awhile... than stay and tolerate VERBAL ABUSE from my spouse....or from anyone! Next time he attempts to bully you or name-calls, tell him to knock it off, that it will no longer be tolerated, and if he doesn't get some sort of help with his anger, you and the kids are gone!

 

Go to a shelter if you have to. They can help you get back on your feel independently.

 

This man sounds toxic. Get away from him asap.

[Katrinagirl]

What kids? From your previous post you said you were in your 50's.

 

mhowe, I'm thinking grandkids maybe?

[mhowe]

I don't know --- she says she is spending $$ on camps for the kids --- I am sorry, if you are in a huge debt and 50+ years old, nana shouldn't be sending

the grandkids to camp.

[Katrinagirl]

I don't know --- she says she is spending $$ on camps for the kids --- I am sorry, if you are in a huge debt and 50+ years old, nana shouldn't be sending

the grandkids to camp.

 

I agree! I only wanted to suggest that maybe that is what she meant by "sending the "kids" to camp," -- i.e. the grandkids.

 

Hopefully Kattie will come back and explain....

[annie24]

Yes, I'm a little confused too. In your 50s, you should be saving money for retirement, paying off outstanding debts, not adding to it. I don't know who these kids are, or how much this camp is, or if they can take the telescope to camp with them, but seriously, you should sit down with a financial planner and figure things out.

[kmae23]

Maybe invest some money in a financial planner of some sort. You may be able to try a cheap one, this way there is an outside party that is holding him accountable. I don't know much along the lines of details regarding these type of planners but I have heard of ones that work mainly in getting out of debt. I would think setting up an appointment and acting as serious as possible about it, despite the reservations he may have and voice, would at least be a start.

 

If that doesn't work, even though it may be out of your personality and I usually would not fight fire with fire, sometimes doing just that is the only way to get your point accross. Buy that three thousand dollar purse! And act as if it was no big deal and just your usual activity. Of course he would know by now this is not your usual activity. This may be very bad advice, I am aware of that. Just throwing that thought out there! You could buy something that is easily returnable.

[IAmFCA]

Presumably, in other threads about abuse etc the OP was counseled to get out.

 

In this thread, we have suggested getting separate accounts. That will provide a good foundation for leaving if she chooses to down the road.

 

If there is a risk that protecting her assets / their assets will cause him to lash out at her, then screw it, she should just go. Assets aren't worth abuse. Sue him later for whatever remains.