Seducing a close friend who's interested but anxious

[abitbroken]

Then why be another in the long line?? And a woman he had sex with and then it didn't end up being a relationship - that's not FWB - its a fling or an affair. And honestly, do you want a relationship with a guy who has readily had "so many sexy times" with other women that you know full well about and is obviously not discreet about them? He kisses and tells. You are not "Different" because you have no boundaries of respect. I have high boundaries. If a guy is in the same room or temporarily in the same house with me, it doesn't mean that i owe him backrubs and a blow job or even would want to. To even get a kiss from me, you have to date me, establish a dating relationship with me, i have to feel like we are a match, we have to be exclusive, etc, etc, and all that stuff. My bf didn't touch me at all except to gently touch my elbow to get my attention to look at something until at least the 4th date. Not even a hug or a handshake. And he's the love of my life.

 

You are not requiring anything - you are giving him whatever he'll take to try and get in a relationship with him rather than requiring a guy to step up first.

 

He doesn't want to 'mess things up' because he doesn't want more with you. If he had sex with you he risks that you want a relationship, he doesn't - so he will hurt your feelings and lose his bj and backrub supply. If he hints at things once in awhile without committing, it keeps you eager to spread your legs or open your blouse for him just in hopes. Win for him!

[regular joe]

I have to agree with the others. He sees you as a friend and nothing more. You get along well and as far as he is concerned you are a friend and nothing more. If he never crosses that line, you will always be his +1. Your his date when he needs one, one he knows won't embaress him.

[tigerlily94]

I have to agree with the others. He sees you as a friend and nothing more. You get along well and as far as he is concerned you are a friend and nothing more. If he never crosses that line, you will always be his +1. Your his date when he needs one, one he knows won't embaress him.

 

I suppose so. I don't know. He hit on me a whole lot during the first year or so of our friendship, and I rebuffed his advances. So while I think there is a strong foundation of friendship here, there was always tension somewhere along the lines. And I was trying to burn the bridge there, I guess.

 

If he can have sex with other women, I don't know why he needs me, then. Unless for emotional support, companionship, etc. But isn't that what a partnership is? I just think he's not ready to settle down + be monogamous. And he doesn't want to lose me as an option in the long run, otherwise this would all be over.

 

I'll remove myself as an option in the short run, then. And let things get back to an even keel.

 

It'd have all been a whole lot easier if the line was crossed clearly earlier, or if it was never approached at all (no kissing). But it is what it is.

[mhowe]

He is not "saving" you for later when he is ready to settle down!

You are a flirt and bj buddy now and forever. He doesn't want the drama of sex and your desire for a relationship or trying to tame him.

 

The are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Doc Blaze]

Because you are comfortable ..you are there and he likes your friendship....

 

 

he gets sex from other girls..he gets emotional support, cuddling, you being in his bed every night.....and you making advances too..back rubs, BJs..this dude is living what some might consider the the perfect Bachelor life syle

[abitbroken]

I suppose so. I don't know. He hit on me a whole lot during the first year or so of our friendship, and I rebuffed his advances. So while I think there is a strong foundation of friendship here, there was always tension somewhere along the lines. And I was trying to burn the bridge there, I guess.

 

If he can have sex with other women, I don't know why he needs me, then. Unless for emotional support, companionship, etc. But isn't that what a partnership is? I just think he's not ready to settle down + be monogamous. And he doesn't want to lose me as an option in the long run, otherwise this would all be over.

 

I'll remove myself as an option in the short run, then. And let things get back to an even keel.

.

 

You are THERE in front of him willing to strip. So why does he need to go look for other women? You are sleeping in his FREAKING BED! There is no room for another one right now!! Nope, he doesn't "need" you, but as sure as heck, he is going to take what is offered!

 

Also, what is so awesome about this guy that you keep going after him other than that he is available?

 

I will caution you when you TRY to date a guy you have been friends wtih - you know all about their bad behavior that you would never put up with in a relationship but you do because you are just buddies. ANd when you get into a relationship and they still behave that way - you can't stand it. So separate from this messed up arrangement and find guys who WANT to find a girl to date. Don't be surprised when they say "no thanks" if you are pushy.

[abitbroken]

Because you are comfortable ..you are there and he likes your friendship....

 

 

he gets sex from other girls..he gets emotional support, cuddling, you being in his bed every night.....and you making advances too..back rubs, BJs..this dude is living what some might consider the the perfect Bachelor life syle

 

Hugh Hefner would approve highly of him.

[tigerlily94]

mhowe, please chill out. I went down on him once, after knowing him for over three years. I wouldn't exactly call that a "bj buddy." I trust people who know us in person on some elements of this situation. It's okay.

 

Doc Blaze, I think this is more the gist of it. It is not entirely one-sided or black+white. I was the one pushing for more recently. He's been the one who pushed for more in the past. But your description sounds more like a girlfriend (minus commitment + sex). And I can stop this if I like to, too. So I do plan to lean way back for the next few days, and I expect things will mellow out.

[tigerlily94]

Heh, he's really quite a beta, though. He's very sweet + caring, and we do have a good rapport - we went to grad school together, joke around a lot, have mutual friends, etc. He's admitted to "not feeling very confident" with dating. A suave player he is not. He's never lived with a woman before and got too nervous the first couple times we made out to do anything more.

[abitbroken]

mhowe, please chill out. I went down on him once, after knowing him for over three years. I wouldn't exactly call that a "bj buddy." I trust people who know us in person on some elements of this situation. It's okay.

 

Doc Blaze, I think this is more the gist of it. It is not entirely one-sided or black+white. I was the one pushing for more recently. He's been the one who pushed for more in the past. But your description sounds more like a girlfriend (minus commitment + sex). And I can stop this if I like to, too. So I do plan to lean way back for the next few days, and I expect things will mellow out.

 

You are not leaning back enough if you share a bed with him, IMHO

 

And by the way, its awfully manipulative to give him a bj, then pull back ON PURPOSE as a strategy to get him to do something or not do something. You need to just put your cards out there. Tell him you don't want a relationship and you are just trying to get him happy or you DO want a relatioship with him and if he tells you he doesn't - sleep on the sofa. Move out. If he does - sleep on the sofa, move out so that you can date him. Enough of this garbage of trying to coax him. He DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP with you but maybe hearing it again will HELP YOU

 

Heh, he's really quite a beta, though. He's very sweet + caring, and we do have a good rapport - we went to grad school together, joke around a lot, have mutual friends, etc. He's admitted to "not feeling very confident" with dating. A suave player he is not. He's never lived with a woman before and got too nervous the first couple times we made out to do anything more.

 

So - he never lived with a woman and you are trying to give him a trial run? Yes, he got too nervous about you making out not because he is nervous about women - its because it was awkward. You are a friend. I would be nervous as heck if making out didn't feel "right" because they were my friend.

 

btw, if he really wanted a relationship is he "the one" for you? if he is not, then don't hurt him - stop now. Don't push him to trust and then decide he's too nervous "too beta," whatever for you.

[tigerlily94]

You are not leaning back enough if you share a bed with him, IMHO

 

And by the way, its awfully manipulative to give him a bj, then pull back ON PURPOSE as a strategy to get him to do something or not do something. You need to just put your cards out there. Tell him you don't want a relationship and you are just trying to get him happy

 

Lean back = staying elsewhere for a couple days, not sharing a bed.

Pulling back is my decision based on what's transpired since. I don't want to make him more uncomfortable; I want to give him space + some alone time. If he wants to explore more sexually (and not necessarily in a committed relationship now, though it'd be easier if he'd just acknowledge that this is pretty much like dating anyway) then I'm happy with that arrangement. If not, then that's where things rest.

 

No, he has never lived with a woman and never had any substantial relationship or partnership. He said he had a four-month relationship which was the longest one in his life. I asked him once if he'd ever been in love and he said "no."

 

The making out situations were ones that HE initiated. Then he got nervous.

 

I have no intention of hurting him. None.

[abitbroken]

Lean back = staying elsewhere for a couple days, not sharing a bed.

Pulling back is my decision based on what's transpired since. I don't want to make him more uncomfortable; I want to give him space + some alone time. If he wants to explore more sexually (and not necessarily in a committed relationship now, though it'd be easier if he'd just acknowledge that this is pretty much like dating anyway) then I'm happy with that arrangement. If not, then that's where things rest.

 

No, he has never lived with a woman and never had any substantial relationship or partnership. He said he had a four-month relationship which was the longest one in his life. I asked him once if he'd ever been in love and he said "no."

 

The making out situations were ones that HE initiated. Then he got nervous.

 

I have no intention of hurting him. None.

 

So, you are willing to "do whatever he wants?" Instead of deciding what you want (committed relationship, dating with a long term potential, or casual dating) and then finding the guy who wants the same, you are bending to whatever he wants of you. You really should never do that. That tells a guy loud and clear that you have no boundaries. That he doesn't have to do anything to earn the relationship. That he can be at his worst. That he has to put no foot forward instead of his best one. Btw, "casual dating" i mean respectably - going to movies, seeing a band - dating like that until you meet who you want to pair off with - not removing all the formalities of dating and "playing house with no strings." You should think of yourself and act like you are a prize - that a guy can't just roll over in bed and you're his.

 

As far as hurting him: But you will hurt him if you push for a relationship, but don't feel he is someone you would want to be with permanently. In otherwords - he is a conquest but when it comes down to brass tacks, you are really looking for a different guy for the long haul. Not anyone in particular in mind. btw, you have no more friendship anymore. You are now a girl that is chasing him/the female version of a suitor.

 

And you are absolutely not taking no for an answer and have NO respect for his boundaries and wishes. He seemed like he didn't want to play - he was clear that he didn't want a relationship so as punishment you brought a guy home to do the "two can play at that game", rather than packing up your things or leaving things at that and deciding you will now remain fully clothed and sleep on the sofa until you can find a new place in the next few weeks. And then you started massaging him. This guy is most likely mega confused.

 

Also, going away for a few days is you going to visit someone. It doesn't send any sort of message. You have to fix this situation - look for ads of women looking for female roomies. Going away for a few days is something you should do to clear YOUR head - not to get a reaction from him. You say you are giving HIM his space and HIS alone time to sort things out - when staying somewhere else should be about YOU because YOU need to cool off and get some space here. If you are doing it so HE can cool off, you might be disappointed that he didn't spend a few days seriously contemplating the situation. He will probably just go on about his day with no major revelation or crying on his blankie waiting for you to come back. I have a feeling the only thing you want is for him to realize he wants you after a few days are passed. Honestly, he is not going to change his mind. He might give you some lip service to get the perk of you throwing yourself at him for a little while longer, but that is all.

[tigerlily94]

Wow. Okay. The topic of dating came up and he'd said that it was something to think about after I'd moved out so... all right. Tonight I went to get some overnight things and we ended up watching TV for a bit + chatting. He said "you really don't have to leave," and I said "no no, it's good - get a good night's sleep, it'll be helpful." I think he's enjoyed having someone around to talk to + may realize his own loneliness in a different way, but I don't think he'll necessarily change his tune about relationships and such in the next few days. No way!

 

I'm stunned at how many actions and interactions are assumed to be straight-up malicious. Posters here get more angry upset etc than either of us have. There's quite a bit of confusion all around.

 

He isn't a kiss+tell guy. He's private. He's only admitted to things if I otherwise had a suspicion or found out. He has never talked to me about women he likes and has made some off-putting remarks about guys the few times in the past I'd talked about them. Would things be different now? Possibly. But this was never purely a platonic friendship - it's always been tinged with feelings on either side.

 

This is a guy who I believe feels he isn't ready for a lot of things that are sometimes just not without challenges. He has talked often about wanting to run a marathon over the last two years, but has yet to make more serious sustained progress toward that goal. Tonight he said he'd want to do a particular entrepreneurial project, but insisted "I think I should wait til I'm in my 40s for that though." And maybe he's right and knows best. But he's also expressed regret at various life/love/work opportunities that are well in the past now, too.

 

I used to feel more insecure like that so I empathize but being on the other side of it now I see it as a self-constructed cage. I wish for his sake (and sure, mine too) that he could put aside some of his fears and actually TRY some of the projects, goals, etc he talks about doing or at least wanting to do.

[Batya33]

" I wish for his sake (and sure, mine too) that he could put aside some of his fears and actually TRY some of the projects, goals, etc he talks about doing or at least wanting to do."

 

 

If you do have his best interests in mind you will stop coming on to him and respect his wishes that he's clearly stated. You can be supportive by being a good listener and helping him find a life coach or therapist if he's interested.

[tigerlily94]

I do listen to him, and I backed off physically. I've spoken to him over a year ago about seeking therapy and he was open + receptive to the idea. But he runs away to work instead and feels he's "behind" his peers in terms of career, relationships, life milestones, etc. It's so difficult to sit by and watch him keep going in circles when things could be so much easier. His anxiety is bad and he's on cholesterol medication already. I feel like he'll never take steps to change anything in his life or he won't in time - the health/stress thing is worrisome to me, his family, and some of his friends.

 

I guess I'm trying to fix him and I thought a radical move would help. I still think he would benefit from a close relationship/partnership and I want to fill that role. There could be a ripple effect of better habits, more reassurance, greater ease + comfort. I just don't know what to do and maybe there's nothing else I even can do. It's sad.

[mhowe]

He will "fix" himself if and when he is ready --- you can't fix him nor will a relationship with you magically transform him.

 

YOU want to fill that role --- he doesn't want you to.

Your frustration is clear --- and the way to get around that is to stop trying to change him --- and change your behavior towards him....and accept him as he is.

 

You are his friend --- not his life coach, his therapist nor the catalyst for transformation.

[Batya33]

I agree with Mhowe. You're not respecting his boundaries and you're interfering far too much in his life in a way that is not supportive and far too biased. Do the right thing and back off. In my humble opinion.

[abitbroken]

But he DOESN'T NEED FIXING. Everyone has things they excel at and don't excel at. He may or may NOT benefit from a relationship right now. it is not UP TO YOU TO DECIDE. The relationship you want is where you are his therapist, basically. Some people are better off single until they arrive where they want to arrive at. If I was tied down to a boyfriend in my early 20s, I would never have taken some of the opportunities that I did. This guy is pulling in women for sex WITH his high cholestoral and everything to go with it, so why should he change a thing? When he is READY, has a healthy scare or when he is READY he will make changes OR NOT.

 

You have to accept people for who they are, and not what you hope to mold them in to! NO there is nothing you can do - you are not being a good friend You are being a downright horrible one.

 

You need to focus on your own life and stop your codependent ways. You need to MOVE OUT. You need to NOT promise him that you will date because if he is not someone you would want to date AS HE IS even if he doesn't change, then you should not promise.

 

I caution you that if/when he does make changes, usually the person that was thought to need "fixing" outgrows the fixer. They are sick of having a mommy around. Or the fixer panics because that person is no longer under their thumb and other people find them appealing.

 

So don't leave to play games with him. Move out and don't play games. Actually, you are the one who needs therapy, quite honestly.

[tigerlily94]

Y'all are way too intense + serious. Everything's been going better than ever, actually!

 

We hung out for a good part of this weekend - he ended up tagging along with some of my friends for a big event in town - and he opened up a lot later on, about his parents' marriage and their challenges; and how his peers won't join in with him in some activities anymore because they have to be super-serious and kowtow to their spouses and children, etc. We had an open talk about what makes a good relationship and what doesn't, and it's like he didn't even realize that relationships can be laid-back, happy, and you can still see your friends and have fun.

 

I'm surprised no one else here recognized him for what he really is - a commitmentphobe, truly. He has an intense fear of relationships because he is afraid of being *left.* Being in a relationship, being married, etc. means things can go bad. It means you give up some control - you don't have the upper hand or call all the shots, you are in a *partnership*. You've let someone into your life, they have met your family, your close friends, others who are important to you. Single + the hook-up scene is safe, you don't take anything personally and you don't get hurt. You haven't incorporated these women into the other facets of your life/you have very few friends in common, so you are not as attached. You compartmentalize this; you use the flings + one-night stands to get your needs met, but it's only really sexual needs and not a real substitute for intimacy. Meanwhile you kick the can down the road, keep flirting with women you're really attracted to, but when things get too close, pull back, hence preventing the possibility of getting rejected.

 

That strikes me as kind of lonely way to live, but if you don't know of a better way, or are too afraid to risk otherwise, I guess it's the only way that you know how to be. It just took me way too long to understand this, but it makes perfect sense in his case.

 

Ah, well. I feel fine, guys, and I'm grateful for your listening. Here's hoping things continue to move along a better trajectory, because this last week has been really excellent.

[blackgnat]

I'm still amazed at the fact that you two share a bed. It's unreal to me.

 

You are looking at crumbs and making them into a loaf.

 

I agree that he seems to be a commitmentphobe-the longest relationship he's ever had is four months? And he is 35? Big red flags, if you are expecting him to have an epiphany about you being the one to change his mind.

 

I'm sure he enjoys your company and the sexual tension between you but he's not making any effort to take it further. I think you're feeling that if you keep trying hard enough you can make him see how good you are together, but I don't think he's wired that way.

 

From what you say, I feel like you think you know exactly how he ticks and what you can do to "save" him from a life of loneliness. But why make him a full time project? That shouldn't be your job! If he doesn't want a relationship with you (other than friendship) then you're expending way too much energy on him. And really, why would he HAVE to make an effort? He has you exactly where he wants you (to the degree that he DOES want you) because he knows you like him more, will keep him company, will share his bed, will provide sexual favors and a listening ear...

 

I think you should back off all the way. If he wants to, then he will pursue you. But for you to be right in front of him and he STILL isn't offering you anything more than what he has with other women, then I think it's an exercise in futility.

[abitbroken]

He is telling you he might want a relationship so he doesn't feel behind his friends. Rather than he meets a woman and decides to build a life with her because she is awesome. We DO know that he's a commitmentphobe - and YOU are not paying attention to that! You are trying to "change him" and coax him into a relationship with you to "cure" him. honestly, I MARRIED a commitmentphobe, believe it or not. He married me when he started to be afraid of growing old alone. All the while before I heard how marriage didn't "work" and all the stories about mom and dad and friends and whomever. When we did get married, it felt out of left field. I thought he turned over a new leaf We were happy for AWHILE and then it fell apart because and he told me "marriages didn't work." He was okay when things were good but when things got to the marriagey stuff like sharing finances, making joint decisions, or when the chips were down and a man needs to the head of his household and side with his own new family instead of the whatever crazy whim a sibling or parent had, he just bailed. There was abuse, as well.

 

The only thing HEALTHY here is for you to move out and leave him alone instead of treating him as your little project. Go out and date others. If he wants to date you, then he has to court you in the proper way with no prompting by you. And if he isn't giving you what you need without your having to coax him, pick a different guy. Why would you settle to be with a guy who might want a relationship so he doesn't feel so left behind by what his friends are doing, rather WHEN HE IS READY choose a girl that he fancies and thinks is really, really special? That may or may NOT be you.

 

Ah, well. I feel fine, guys, and I'm grateful for your listening. Here's hoping things continue to move along a better trajectory, because this last week has been really excellent.

 

If its a therapy session...indeed.

 

You cannot mold people into who you want them to be!!

[Iggles]

I'm still catching up on this thread but wanting to respond to this:

 

I decided that if he said, "no" or "stop" at any time, or anything to that effect, I'd stop immediately. But if he encouraged it or let me keep going...I was going to keep going...and ended up going down on him, which he enjoyed, but couldn't really believe it was happening. The worst thing he said was "Ahhh maybe this isn't a good idea," but that was about it.

 

He was laughing + smiling afterwards and seemed a bit in disbelief.. but then he hopped in the shower to get ready for work. When he got out, he walked up to me and gave me a big grin + a kiss. Hmmm.

 

Of course he's smiling. You gave him a bl0wjob for free! As in, he did not have to make any commitment to you, or take you out for dinner, or even put in any effort in returning the favor! Instead he just got into the shower and headed to work. No reciprocation needed.

 

Not sure what you were trying to prove here, but a man getting it up for a woman he's attracted to is a common occurrence. He "let" it happened because he likes having orgasms, bonus for having one due to the efforts of a woman, and his mild protestations take him "off the hook" is his mind from any accusations of leading you on..

[Iggles]

He actually already has a beer gut. I'm petite. And I'm the only girl he has brought home to family - his sister has admitted this to me. He invited me to Thanksgiving a couple years ago, and he just invited me to a family BBQ this past weekend. I'm sorry if I didn't explain that we have a substantial history as close friends.

 

Those are all superficial things.

 

What does his beer gut have to do with whether he wants to date you? And he brought you home as a friend. NOT his girlfriend.

 

You're reading too much into it..

 

I guess I'm trying to fix him and I thought a radical move would help. I still think he would benefit from a close relationship/partnership and I want to fill that role. There could be a ripple effect of better habits, more reassurance, greater ease + comfort. I just don't know what to do and maybe there's nothing else I even can do. It's sad.

 

No, no, no!

 

That's not how healthy relationships work. You want to be the "rescuer" because if you "save" him that puts you in control; you feel needed; he'll be so grateful that he will never leave you, unlike a man who doesn't need you (i.e., can stand on his own).. It's aiming for codependency instead of interdependence.. It's the female version of being a "white knight".

 

OP, do yourself a favor. Don't pick a partner like this. Pick someone who is ALREADY the man you want your future husband/father of children/life partner to be. And strive to be the WOMAN who is deserving of that man.