Confused as to what attracts women, so many contradictions

[Dougie_D]

I needed to chime in.... How does oneself determine what "level/league" they are in? It's usually someone outside of your self. If no one says you are pretty, ugly, or she/he is way out of your league, etc...than everyone on this planet will believe they are on the same level field. People determine what league you are or really how "attractive/unattractive" you are or how "equal" they are to them. Never your own self. You can never determine that. The only way to really determine that is the acceptance/rejection of people. You go for whoever turns you on the most regarding looks. You get rejected. (they determined that). You go after another one not so attracted for you. You get rejected (again, they determine that).... eventually you might hit one that "accepts". Is this the cut off point? You think so, right? But then you get rejected by someone that is very similar to them? NOW what?!!!!! Do you start over with the process? ... Leagues are silly to me.

 

Also, I want to say that PROXIMITY is different now. I have a buddy that is a highschool teacher and he mentioned that his kids are going out on dates with other kids from a really far high school...where they met ONLINE. Highschool kids!? Most people are dating/hooking up meeting up online. College kids, post graduates, people who work at home, etc... The online presence is changing how attractiveness works.

[Mb1212]

I have the same question about leagues. Because I feel there are many guys out of my league who I don't even bother flirting with but will find out later they were attracted to me so I've always considered myself in a lower league than I'm in probably which makes me intimidated or shy around really attractive guys and I'm sure this happens all the time to both guys and girls.

 

And wow highschool kids meeting online? My mom would have killed me if I was meeting up with strangers when I was 16!

[radiohead20]

How old are you? Im 21 and have had a few guy friends with baby faces but it never got in their way of attracting girls! I'm a girl but I still have a baby face and sometimes people think I'm still in highschool LOL so embarrassing but I don't think that's effected guys bring attracted to me.

 

 

Hey for a girl having a babyface is a huge plus. It means you can hold on to your youthful appearance longer than most women, and looks matter the most to guys (its the truth). I love girls with more of a babyface. I am definetely into more the "cute" look than the "hot sexy" look. Think erin or pam from the office.

 

I am 27, but I look more like 20-21. There are many times where I get rejected by women who are 23-24 because they do not think I am "masculine" looking enough, but then end up dating men who are YOUNGER than me by a few years just because they LOOK older than me. Talk about frustrating!

 

Women are more image oriented these days, as they have gained more independence career wise and within their personal lives they have less reliance on a man and thus seem more apt to pick men based on image and looks rather than personal qualities or income in their younger years (20's). They are becoming more like men in terms of casual dating and trophy-wiving. Its actually a win win situation for good looking guys or guys who have a good image in their 20's who are broke/living at home/etc/ have not much going for them other than their image. The chances of them getting in a long term relationship are slim but they can easily get casual encounters from women in their 20's who are more image based.

[Deciduous]

I entirely agree. It's a pity that evolution has subconsciously stuck so rigidly to this "league" paradigm. And that is the problem. It is done at a subconscious level, not at the conscious level that you put forward.

 

We don't logically decide who to desire.

 

i.e. "Extremely, Healthy Looking, Fertile Man" is drawn to "Extremely Healthy Looking, Fertile Woman."

 

Slightly Less Healthy Man shacks up with Slightly Less Healthy Woman, because extremely healthy loooking woman is not available, and on and on.

 

It may not happen every time, but an over-all pattern demonstrates, it happens far more often than mere coincidence would suggest.

 

However we don't know that we are doing this, until some-one does a survey, and notices a strange correlation between the level of facial symmetry and attractiveness in couples.

 

Suddenly we realise that Angelina Jolie was never going to run off with Mackenzie Crook.

 

Sadly we are still grappling with our ativastic heritage.

 

Deci

[itsallgrand]

What fool told you looks don't matter? Or liars?

It's a matter of degree:

and that goes for men and women.

Some people prioritize physicality higher than others.

 

So you basically confessed here that looks are very important to you.

 

Which makes me wonder. ...

 

Who are you attracted to?

 

You also mentioned that the women you tend to go for end up swooning over someone with much less to offer than yourself (in your estimation) but very good looking.

 

So it sounds like you are going for air heads with a pretty face?

 

Maybe change who you are attracted to?

 

Not that you won't find pretty - well, pretty - but to stop being attracted to women who go for men with nothing but a pretty face is controllable on your end.

[John John]

People often do not know what they want until they've had enough experience to really know. If you go around taking a survey of what women want, you won't even end up with "tall, dark, handsome, 6 figure salary"...you'll end up with a crazy contractdition of wishlists that just doesn't make any sense. Some women care about money, some don't care if you're homeless. Some like blondes, some like brunettes.

 

Like thorshammer, I have also dated several women taller than me, ones who previously said they would "NEVER" date a short guy. I get plenty of messages from women online who have height requirements of 6'0'+ and I just laugh at them suddenly "waiving" said requirements.

 

I also have a babyface (I'm 29, and look like I'm 22 when I'm clean shaven), I find many women like that I actually consider it one of my bigger assets. Use it to your advantage man!

[Mb1212]

I actually don't see it as a huge plus for me because I'm attracted to older guys and Im already young snd don't want to look like a high schooler to them haha. Have you tried growing out facial hair? Most of my exes have looked really young with a clean shaven face but then when they grow it out they look about five years older. That might help if you think that a baby face is holding you back from woman being attracted to you because of how young you look. And in terms of masculinity I think that depends on how a guy can carry himself. I've seen guys who aren't that "big" and don't have these muscles but carry themselves so confidently that they seem masculine.

[Mb1212]

Also really there's no one answer for what attracts women. For example the three guys I've dated who I've truly loved were 1)Filipino 2)Cuban 3) Honduran So in general I'm not attracted to white guys but that doesn't mean I can't be attracted to one, I've casually dated a blonde haired blue eyed guy which is not my type at all but I was equally as attracted to him as these other guys. So appearance wise I don't think there's anything you can do to guarantee girls will be interested since everyone is so different. I think confidence is the most important thing to me and sense of humor.

[Dougie_D]

We don't logically decide who to desire.

 

i.e. "Extremely, Healthy Looking, Fertile Man" is drawn to "Extremely Healthy Looking, Fertile Woman."

 

Slightly Less Healthy Man shacks up with Slightly Less Healthy Woman, because extremely healthy loooking woman is not available, and on and on.

 

It may not happen every time, but an over-all pattern demonstrates, it happens far more often than mere coincidence would suggest.

 

However we don't know that we are doing this, until some-one does a survey, and notices a strange correlation between the level of facial symmetry and attractiveness in couples.

 

It's called "settling". We actually do logically know what we desire. We desire "better than what we had". It could be looks, intelligent, stability, wealth, AVAILIBILITY, etc....

 

For example: 2 men and 1 woman are at the same location. One man is good looking, one is not that so good looking, and the woman is average. Both men desire the woman but differently. Good looking guy desires her because she's the only one at the party and he is looking for a hook up (he thinks he can get better). The other guy desires her overall. The woman is able to desire both but will likely desire the better looking guy.

 

Then all of a sudden another girl appears. Lets say she's really good looking model type. Again, both men desire this new girl and not paying attention to the other.

 

Both good looking people end up hooking up. That leaves the average girl and not so good looking together. What do you think happens? Girl leaves and goes online. haha!

[Deciduous]

Now you are getting it

 

Although I wouldn't necessarily call it "settling" Settling is when we shack up with some-one we aren't that keen on. There's no research that proves the less attractive we are (by socially held standards) the less sexual attraction and real love we feel for our partner. No-one should settle. If you ain't feeling it, you ain't feeling it. Please don't settle. The trick is to find a match that is right for you. And that includes sexual attraction.

 

Deci

[Thorshammer]

Also really there's no one answer for what attracts women. For example the three guys I've dated who I've truly loved were 1)Filipino 2)Cuban 3) Honduran So in general I'm not attracted to white guys but that doesn't mean I can't be attracted to one, I've casually dated a blonde haired blue eyed guy which is not my type at all but I was equally as attracted to him as these other guys. So appearance wise I don't think there's anything you can do to guarantee girls will be interested since everyone is so different. I think confidence is the most important thing to me and sense of humor.

 

Oh really? Hmmmm.... white guys are missing out then.

[HopsonMcGee]

It might be time to lower your standards. It's a tough pill to swallow, but if you're not even getting first dates - let alone second dates - then you might be consistently batting out of your league.

[Slimpee]

Be happy doing your thing without regard to what women think about it and you'll be more attractive.

 

Also, maybe reconsider what you think abt fashion.

[quirky]

I think dating is always hard when you are focused on the external, eg what THEY want, what is considered attractive, how to win them over. This is pointless and most people sense that you are trying, that something is off and not totally natural. In a world where being contrived and guarded is so common it is very refreshing to meet someone natural and open about who they are. What you need is to be yourself. When my mate went on a date and he was vervous I said to him 'Talk to her exactly as you do to me just omit the farting and burping'. His date went really well!

 

Also you may need to have a think about this..you say you don't talk much and that your clothes are a bit bland. How are you gonna stand out a little? You don't have to go completely the opposite direction and be the 'look at me' person but I think it's a good idea to look into that..what makes you hide away a bit, how can someone see your uniqueness?

[Blue Spiral]

Never, ever settle for less. When you do that, you're selling yourself short. Self-respect is much more important than sex. When my own options have been limited, I've chosen periods of celibacy, as I'm not going to be involved with someone that I don't consider attractive. (And don't let anyone tell you that your standards are too high, especially when those doing the telling likely have inflated expectations in terms of what they want.) I've had some women try to set me up with one of their not-attractive friends, and then get angry when I wasn't interested, and tell me that it's "unrealistic" for me to want a "supermodel". I'm sorry, but you can go to any mall in America, throw a rock, and hit an attractive woman. There's a huge, realistically-attainable middle ground between supermodel and super-not.

 

Also, assuming that everyone in question is over eighteen, no one needs to justify or apologize for what they're attracted to. If looks matter to you, you don't need to care about what anyone else thinks.

[goodfoot]

I'm sorry, but you can go to any mall in America, throw a rock, and hit an attractive woman.

 

That's my usual Saturday, lol. I've always said I don't believe in leagues. It's already hard enough finding someone to be turning people away for being TOO good for you. She may shoot me down, but I'm not going to shoot myself down.

[Dougie_D]

I've had some women try to set me up with one of their not-attractive friends, and then get angry when I wasn't interested, and tell me that it's "unrealistic" for me to want a "supermodel".

 

I'm not trying to bash women but I do realize that more women make statements about people being "unrealistic" and proposing that the guy needs to find women in their league and not go for the hottest girl they see.

 

Majority of guys in general tell their guy friends "go for it bro!" Only a few of my guy friends will tell me to lower my standards but those friends are big into being in shape and stuff...but ALWAYS say, well if you "get in shape" you will be able to get those girls bro! They don't say its unrealistic. Also a guy would say "she's way out of your league" especially in the back of his mind he thinks he's gonna get her. These guys are mostly single anyway. I don't think he means it. I think he's saying it as a "challenge".

 

I think women created the league idea. Not men. Women put men in leagues and majority of guys go with it.

[John John]

I think it really goes both ways. But I've personally noticed more often you will see good looking women with average/below average guys rather than vice versa. Though I'm sure we all know couples where the guy is better looking than the woman.

 

I think that's why there are so many books about "game" for men...the idea that, virtually any guy (no matter what he looks like or how much money he makes) can turn his "game" on to get someone out of his league. I read one of these books not too long ago, but really don't use any of it because it's all so...contrived. Not me at all. Though humorous to read.

 

Whenever I choose to approach a woman in person (which is quite rare for me), I'm only going by looks because I don't have a "profile" to learn about her beforehand. So yeah, I"ll go for women who are "out of my league," and yeah, they will usually turn me down, but you never know if you don't try!

[Thorshammer]

Believe it or not, some really hot women are insecure. Every hottie i had was insecure, and if i said something or did something- i was labeled as someone who didnt care, i was mean, etc. They start strong and powerful with the iron hand for a veto to tell you to shut up or the date is over, that eventually changes and the power either shifts completely to you, or a mix of you both, but if she is very insecure it will easily lean towards you.

 

My ex gf of 3 years was beautiful, but she was the most insecure person i ever knew. I went from being nervous around her because i couldnt meet her eye to eye, to her telling me i didnt like her or find her pretty anymore. I dated another woman that they called the cuban jlo, and she would flip out when i signed on myspace - she actually broke up with me when 3 women left a myspace comment on a pic. She didnt break up with me because i pulled in, but i chased her after the break up, its not until i stopped and moved on fast - that she kept chasing me for 6 years- even when i was taken and she was taken (because i pushed away).

 

This might not be a popular thing to say here - but coming from a guy, who is tasked with attracting and keeping women for all his 32 years of life - the more you pull a women with insecurity, the faster you lose them. Insecure women are dangerous.

 

And i thought i had it figured out, my last girlfriend was a colombian with fake boobs, and a nose job, and was super fit like a fitness model, she looked like a hotter version of mila kunis. This girl was a mix on insecure with me, but outside she was super-arrogant. I played it cool, and didnt pull her in with too much attention, it went well, until she wouldnt let me breath, i couldnt go out, i couldnt look at women, and eventually she ended up crying and vowing that she would never be the same with me - i tried to fix it, i pulled her in, and that was my final move- she snatched someone else, i found out and broke up with her. She chased me when i pushed away until i had to be mean to her so she can leave me alone.

 

Thats a lesson from actual experience in the trenches. No matter how people want to sugar-coat this, or say how confident they are- there are certain situations with certain types of people - that will most likely play out in a certain way. Insecure people need validation, and they can only seek it from someone who they feel is valuable, and a needy, desperate second choice guy is not that.

[John John]

That's why I never go for looks alone. While looks are important to me (especially for fwb/one night stands), I have to have things in common with a woman, and she has to be at least on my level of intelligence. My ex of 5 years to me was absolutely beautiful...fair, light eyes, blue eyes...exactly my type. She once said (and so did my family and friends, after our breakup) that she felt I was out of her league and that I could do better. But because I actually had things in common with her and geuinely loved her, she was like a 9/10+ to me.

 

Funny how when you have feelings for someone they become better looking in your eyes.

 

And yeah...some hot women are extremely insecure. Those women are to be avoided like the plague.

[Dougie_D]

But I've personally noticed more often you will see good looking women with average/below average guys rather than vice versa.

 

People say this all the time and I've seen it too but the real honesty here is... I've actually seen them "with each other". I don't think I ever saw a "couple" that was kissing or hugging on too each other like they were together or even married.

 

I've gone out with my good looking girl friends by myself to places. More likely for coffee, lunch, concert, or sporting event. The girls could be family too! Who knows.

 

I honestly think it's less than what we want to assume. To assume that a good looking girl is actually with the average guy.

[Thorshammer]

There are a lot of women dating guys outside of their realm of physical attraction. Women put more stock in behavior and resources than men do. You do see men who have a lot of money with hot women - and its not all material, its sexy to be a boss with leadership, have you ever talked to a CEO? Dude will make you feel small and insecure - thats oozing with strength, thats an attractive trait for women.

 

Muscles is another display of strength, also leadership and charisma, i hear way more about women liking some guy who is funny and always plans our trips and is cool and everybody likes him- that it annoys me, especially when the girls in the group fight for him (my cousin is an example, hes just ugly but hes always had beautiful women and is a notorious cheater). I rarely hear that from men, if a girl is cool, she will be locked down as a friend if she isnt attractive.

 

Also confidence vs insecure and weak but you look good- will always lose out to confidence. I have beat out some brad pitt looking dudes to get to the girl, mostly because they are in the corner squished in by us because he doesnt have a set of huevos to tell us that he needs space- he spends 20 minutes ordering a drink because hes too intimidated to yell at the bartender over people skipping him that he wants to order a drink - he has no backbone- and he is extremely soft spoken. I have heard girls tell me that they think hes gay, or virgin, a mammas boy, etc. This once hot guy is not reduced to a child, and he is quicky knocked off the genetic ladder as a mate.

 

Though, i know a lot of women that will target a man like the above example. I sometimes get introverted and i noticed when i am quiet and looking away from everyone, a very dominant female approaches me, they are super aggressive and just lay it on me with their game - once a taller women did this to me and since my cousins were looking (and i didnt want to look like a chump and just wanted to have a little fun) i charged in as a wolf back to her that she was taken by surprise, she was completely out of her element, its like she instantly turned into a 12 year old. So, there are always exceptions.

[Blue Spiral]

I think women created the league idea. Not men. Women put men in leagues and majority of guys go with it.

 

I personally believe in leagues, but there are a lot of leagues between a 1 and a 10. When some women see a guy that's struggling with women, their first instinct is to use him to dump off one of their non-attractive friends. And if you resist, you get the "Oh, so you want a ten, no wonder you're struggling!" or "You think you're too good for her, huh??" I'm probably a 6.5 or so, but I can't tell you how many 2s and 3s they've tried to foist on me, simply because they see weakness/struggling and assume I must be desperate. This reveals a key detail of how many women think: if you aren't high-status in their eyes, then you're at the bottom. I think that women are a lot more binary in this area than men are. We see the "middle leagues", but they just see "high-status" and "loser". I imagine it's more of a time-saving device than anything. They have so many suitors that they can't go in-depth, they just have to break us down into acceptable and not acceptable.

 

Women, on the whole, are definitely more concerned with status than men are. But there are two logical explanations for it. First of all, they can get pregnant--that means being temporarily sidelined from the workforce, so the man needs to be able to provide on his own. A high-status (high-status in comparison to the woman, I'm not talking about a millionaire) man is more likely to be able to do that. And second, women have had social status used against them for centuries. They couldn't vote, couldn't own property, etc. It's only logical that, after past generations were victimized like that, they'd want status for themselves, and seek out men that had it.

[John John]

If we're talking solely about looks...I don't believe in leagues so much as that I believe we all end up with someone who is within +/- a point (maybe two) in level of attraction. Meaning, if you're a 6.5, you can probably get someone as high as an 8/8.5 or so, but you may only get a 5 if you don't have other things going for you (confidence, chemistry, career, personality, etc.).

 

But as some have already said, with women, while looks will definitely help, they aren't the end all be all. Confidence/status/money/game all matter too. That's why you'll see 3/10s with 8/10s...they have extra things to make up for their looks. I recently was dating a very attractive woman for a few weeks...she said "you're very handsome, but I don't think we have any chemistry." So that was the end of that.

 

Sad to say, but below average looking women don't have it like that. They may make a six figure salary, but if they're unattractive, personality and money won't really make up for it (unless the guy is just looking for a free lunch).

[Slimpee]

I don't really understand the obsession with "leagues" I certainly understand the concept, and even halfway believe in it, but you can't change your basic looks so what's the point?

 

You can work out and dress better if you're not satisfied...maybe get a new hairstyle...but beyond that, you can't control your looks. If you find someone attractive, talk to that person. If you like the person, ask that person on a date. They will say yes or no (anything but "yes" or a "not that day but X day is good" is a "no", btw).

 

Saying that there are or are not leagues and/or whether one gender puts the other in leagues is just a crutch, in my opinion. It's just another way of blaming the world for your dating troubles when instead you should be focusing on what you can do to attract the type of person you want to end up with.

 

Take control of what you can, people, and don't give a second worry to what you can't!