How do you know what league you are in?

[Dougie_D]

So many of my friends have suggested to go after girls in "my league"... So I took that as chubby and less average looking.

 

But when I tend to go after girls that I feel like are in "my league" and basically strike out... What does that mean?

 

So I go lower and lower and I still strike out!!! Does a girl have to be BLIND to date me!????

[irishapple]

So many of my friends have suggested to go after girls in "my league"... So I took that as chubby and less average looking.

 

But when I tend to go after girls that I feel like are in "my league" and basically strike out... What does that mean?

 

So I go lower and lower and I still strike out!!! Does a girl have to be BLIND to date me!????

 

Your post reeks of desperation. What sort of person gives a rating system ? Treat a woman as an individual and if you see someone you like, regardless of if they are in your league or not just approach and chat to them and then go from there. Why not build a friendship first? I did that (Im gay BTW but same principle applies) and now Im in a relationship with a a guy and its going from strength to strength. Just respect someone and you will be fine. If its just a ONS you are looking for and shoot a load then fair enough but if you want a relationship you need to ditch that frame of mind and stop listening to your peers.

[Kendahke]

So many of my friends have suggested to go after girls in "my league"... So I took that as chubby and less average looking.

 

But when I tend to go after girls that I feel like are in "my league" and basically strike out... What does that mean?

 

So I go lower and lower and I still strike out!!! Does a girl have to be BLIND to date me!????

 

If you're running your dating issues by a committee, then you just need to stop dating. When you do that, you have no confidence in your self and your abilities and women can pick up on that.

[bulletproof]

You've asked about leagues before... generally speaking, they exist in the mind. Plus, you're hyper-focused on looks- I noticed that according to your post, your "league" is only based on what the woman would look like. What about her job, her personality, her experiences? Doesn't that matter?

[Heather Dawn]

I've been told by men, in the past, that I was out of their league. I had no idea what to say to that.

[Blue Spiral]

As more and more people on ENA are admitting, leagues are sadly real. That doesn't mean there can't be exceptions, though.

 

Let me tell you how I found out what league I'm in. My acquaintances, relatives, and not-exactly-friends would say, "This girl I know is single, you should let me introduce you!" And sometimes they'd add "If you really pursue her and treat her well, maybe it'll work out." 99% of the time, the girl in question was hideous. And yet some of these people thought I'd need to really try hard to have a chance with the girl. Ye gods.

 

That's yet another one of the reasons I switched to FWBs: women have extremely (IMHO unrealistically) high standards for a relationship, but FWB-expectations are more manageable. And we can't compete with the sexual options women have. I can't tell you how often I'm in the checkout aisle, there's an ugly/not exactly young woman working the register, and I see that she has a wedding ring on. I'd say 80% of the time. Average/slightly-below-average guys are basically screwed, but even the worst women can find a guy willing to marry them.

[amy8177]

Seems like dating girls in your league means a girl who complements you and your personality and attributes. I am going to assume you are young and/or very shallow and I agree with bulletproof that you are basing toooooo much looks alone.

 

It goes like this: If an athletic girl walks by and you think she's hot and you want to date her ----that's normal and fine. Yet, you must take into consideration if she works out and takes care of herself she may want someone like her as well. This is not always the case, but like attracts like for the most part.

 

So a shallow person will attract a shallow person. A deep person may attract another deep person. Is this ALWAYS the case? Of course not, but attraction works because the other person sees in their partner what they see in themselves. Your woman or man is your mirror. Frightening but oh so true.

 

Does this make sense? Therefore if you want a different kind of woman, YOU have to make that change within yourself.

[Heather Dawn]

It goes like this: If an athletic girl walks by and you think she's hot and you want to date her ----that's normal and fine. Yet, you must take into consideration if she works out and takes care of herself she may want someone like her as well. This is not always the case, but like attracts like for the most part.

 

So a shallow person will attract a shallow person.

 

Are you implying that people who take care of their bodies are shallow? Because there's nothing wrong with being active and healthy, and it certainly doesn't automatically equal shallowness.

[amy8177]

Those comments were not mutually exclusive if you see I used a paragraph break to imply that.

 

Shallow and deep comments were completely separate from that example. People have their own definition of shallowness or depth. I am no one to say what is or what isn't etc.

 

The athletic comment was made to reference a hobby or an attribute that someone may want in their partner.

[ProtestTheHero]

Dougie, you have no league. You're not ready to date anyone because all you do is focus on the external. You've created so many fictional constructs of how dating "works" and who goes after what that all you're doing is spinning your wheels. You'll never get anywhere or make any progress as long as you keep creating threads like this one.

 

Your problem is that you do not respect or value yourself at all, and then for some reason you are surprised when other people decide to follow your lead.

[Heather Dawn]

Those comments were not mutually exclusive if you see I used a paragraph break to imply that.

 

Shallow and deep comments were completely separate from that example. People have their own definition of shallowness or depth. I am no one to say what is or what isn't etc.

 

The athletic comment was made to reference a hobby or an attribute that someone may want in their partner.

 

OK. looking at it, I guess I can see how you meant it - though it wasn't entirely clear.

[allcity]

Your problem is that you do not respect or value yourself at all, and then for some reason you are surprised when other people decide to follow your lead.

 

Exactly right! A person's 'league' is only defined by the boundaries they set for themselves. Too many guys think that their looks define their 'league' for them, when the reality is it is their own lack of self-esteem, lack of social abilities and their inability to flirt etc that really sabotages them. There are very few really good-looking men in the world, compared to all the average and below-average looking guys, so looks have very little to do with long-term dating success. If looks and 'leagues' were the be all and end all, then all the average and below-average looking people would be single and being gorgeous would be a pre-requisite for marriage and LTR's, which it clearly is not.

[Ratae]

A girl told me once I was below her league because I wasn't 6 foot+. I don't think 'leagues' exists in the mind at all. An attractive woman can basically choose the best looking guy she wants. Even average woman can date up and get a guy better looking than them. It pretty much sucks for us average-looking guys because average-looking women (our equals) can date up. We are left with the scraps and less attractive women, i.e. fat/obese.

[bulletproof]

Your problem is that you do not respect or value yourself at all, and then for some reason you are surprised when other people decide to follow your lead.

 

This is exactly right. You really don't love who you are and yet you expect others to do so. Understandable considering some of the stuff you've written here about how your parents speak to you and treat you. But you can change.

[Cognitive_Canine]

 

Your problem is that you do not respect or value yourself at all, and then for some reason you are surprised when other people decide to follow your lead.

 

I have to agree with this. You don't seem to like yourself or respect yourself that much, Dougie.

 

Heck, I remember you used to talk about how you were the clown among your friends and you didn't particularly like it. Would you date girl version of you?

[Klokwurk]

There are leagues, but that doesn't mean we can't shoot for the stars.

 

But this doesn't even apply to you, Dougie, cause you don't even love yourself, man.

[irishapple]

A girl told me once I was below her league because I wasn't 6 foot+. I don't think 'leagues' exists in the mind at all. An attractive woman can basically choose the best looking guy she wants. Even average woman can date up and get a guy better looking than them. It pretty much sucks for us average-looking guys because average-looking women (our equals) can date up. We are left with the scraps and less attractive women, i.e. fat/obese.

 

I would have told her to go play with the traffic on the motorway....

[tiredofvampires]

I can't tell you how often I'm in the checkout aisle, there's an ugly/not exactly young woman working the register, and I see that she has a wedding ring on. I'd say 80% of the time. Average/slightly-below-average guys are basically screwed, but even the worst women can find a guy willing to marry them.

 

So who do you imagine/picture those women married to? Just wondering.

 

Other posters are right, Dougie, that you have an essential problem with self-worth and respect. It really does just contaminate everything.

 

But I want to add that you yourself have stated that you are socially awkward and lack social skills, and you need to know that this is so central to making a connection (or not making it), leagues are irrelevant. Even physical looks pale in significance.

 

It seems to me you are someone who behaves in a somewhat oblivious way, without reading cues and nuances. Some of your threads attest to that. It seems to me from a lot of your threads that you don't know how to read people, or you deeply mistrust any intuition you might have. I think some of this may be learned behavior, as an extension of your lacking any sense self-confidence, which is required to trust your gut and go with it. You essentially don't tap into intuition with people, and if you don't know how to interpret, or don't trust your interpretations of situations, you very well may be coming off as out of touch. And being out of touch is not a quality that draws people closer.

 

I wish I could tell you how that could be fixed, but it's not an easy answer or a practical kind of job. It's another type of inside job (and you don't seem to be interested in those kinds of explorations.) It's a matter of becoming aware, and awareness is something you have to cultivate if it's not something that comes naturally to you. I sense that you're the type of person who "reacts" rather than "responds" in social situations -- and what I mean by that is that you sort of leap before you look; the first thing that comes to mind, you do or say, without much thought. You have some pretty stock ideas and mo's, and they don't allow for nuanced interaction. You are somewhat impulsive, with hasty assessments and very over-simplified reads on people and situations. So the best I can do from this distance is tell you that learning how to observe, to step back and watch, to not try to make something out of situations but just to feel out what's going on without acting on urges -- that might help you become more finely tuned. You're too driven by your agenda to be doing much noticing and listening. I sense you're a bit like an amp blasting with no dynamics, and to refine social interaction, you need to sometimes play softly, and be ready to adjust and shift according to incoming cues rather than just come loaded with your desires, wants, and programmed instincts.

 

I'm just sharing some impressions, but I can't tell you how to apply these in specific situations. I'm just saying that's so much more determinative than leagues.

[Reflective82]

admitting? of course leagues are real-- I doubt anyone would even deny it.

 

I'm not sure how to tell what league you are in though....

[Reflective82]

I would add that "leagues" are not just looks focused though. Generally, women are judged more on their looks, but it isn't just that. And guys are rated on looks, personality and job, I think....

[Blue Spiral]

So who do you imagine/picture those women married to? Just wondering.

 

My guesses: guys with less dignity/hope (and fewer options) than me, or guys that appreciate them for who they are on the inside.

[Blue Spiral]

I would add that "leagues" are not just looks focused though. Generally, women are judged more on their looks, but it isn't just that. And guys are rated on looks, personality and job, I think....

 

Indeed. As ever, I maintain that men don't care that much about a woman's job, ambition, or personality (as long as they're not grating or "I'mma cut you"-crazy). Whereas for women, leagues involve more than just looks. I'm actually pretty good-looking, probably a 7.5 or an 8, but my lack of height and money (and my general meek, non-overtly-masucline nature) knock me down to a 6 or so. And women want to date/marry up. The 7s want the 9s, and so on. So, as a 6, my only true-relationship options would be the 4s, and please believe me when I say that it's scary out there.

[Thorshammer]

You never know what league you are in. Watch the netflix documentary science of sexual attraction (something like that, i dont remember the title). In it they rated people, and these people didnt know what rating they were, but the women did... the women went right after the top guy believeing they were at that level... when they told them to rate based on looks only, they picked different people tho... but at or around their level... and from what i saw, women picked 1 level higher. Then they went around asking people if they thought the lowest rated men (the strangers didnt know they were rated) were attractive, they listed their job and income, the lowest rated guy got high marks when the income read; 250,000 a year.

 

I believe i have dated higher. But there is more to the game then just looks, you need charm and personality, which i believe i have a lot of. Jaded women hate me because i can be cocky, i set off their bad experiences, princess i hate and i make it known that they arent anything special (and this actually doesnt hurt my chances by the way).

[allcity]

A girl told me once I was below her league because I wasn't 6 foot+.

 

No offence, but again all that really does is say more about you, than the woman that said that. She only has the idea that her 'type' is 6 foot+ and you weren't able to make her lose her preconceptions.

 

I'm a short guy and have never had trouble attracting people I like. I've even had women that were 6' 2" in heels buy me drinks and tell me "My usual type is the 6' 5" football player kind of guy but there's just something about you."

 

That's why I can say without any doubt that 'leagues' are all in the mind. I don't believe anyone is out of my league and, so far, no one has been.

[Thorshammer]

No offence, but again all that really does is say more about you, than the woman that said that. She only has the idea that her 'type' is 6 foot+ and you weren't able to make her lose her preconceptions.

 

Height can be an issue for some, but not for many. 40% of the women i was with were taller than me. Last one i had was 4 inches taller.