How do you know what league you are in?

[Donovan79]

I disagree with the idea that women are attracted to money or job. Money and job are the symptoms of what women are attracted to, not the root cause. What they're attracted to is confidence. And you can build that up by learning to focus on making yourself great, having some pride, and slowly learning to let go of giving so much of a fark.

 

I'm nothing special looking. Maybe a solid 8. I try to stay in shape, run a few times a week, not become a fat slob, but you put me in a room of 20 random guys and there will almost always be at least one or two who have better hair, are classically better looking, etc. But I could care less as I still know I'm better than each of them. Kidding, but only halfway -- maybe not "better" than them, as assuming this will always get you in trouble when you find out they're pretty cool too, yet I still know that when it comes to surprising a cool girl and making her laugh I can more than hold my own. If she's deeply, entirely shallow and wants only the guy who looks like a model, okay, cool, it's then easy for me to let her go because I know she's a flake anyway. But if she wants a guy who can give her something more to deal with then I'm usually on deck.

 

If you can't flirt and hold a conversation with a girl you just need to practice not caring and being a generally amusing character. Make stupid jokes to the girls in the coffee shop, whatever they look like. Tell them "how the hell are you, lovely?", and mean it when you ask it, listen to their answer and ask them about it the next day with a grin. Build a group of people who adore you who you're not trying to bang. Work out regularly and get a haircut and a few pieces of clothing more expensive than usual, not for others but just to feel a bit money. Focus on work and do some things that aren't in the job description which surprise your boss in a good way. You'll find your confidence growing along with a bit of self-love. And you'll suddenly find yourself one day soon in the middle of a flirty conversation with a girl you find damn attractive, and it'll suddenly dawn on you that she's actually kind of into you too. When you realise that don't blow it.

 

Just saw "The Perks of Being A Wallflower". Good flick, had one line that resonated deeply:

 

"You find the love you think you deserve."

[Reflective82]

I don't know about that...

 

For sex they don't care about anything other than looks, but I think for dating they do care about that. I've known guys actually brag about how smart their girlfriends are and how they are proud she is a lawyer etc. And my ex told me my ambition and drive was attractive to him. But obviously looks are the primary focus for most men I imagine.

 

I would say masculinity is very attractive to me-- not sure about other women but yeah, it could help to be more "masculine" but you can't force it. I don't think it's a deal breaker though because loads of girls I know want a nice, kind guy and think the masculine guys I go for are *****s (and so far they've been right) so I think if you could be more confident there is no reason why you'd have to get the 4s- that seems ridiculous. I would love to "marry up" but I've been reading in the press recently how a lot of women are actually marrying down these days due to the fact women are now earning their own money and doing so well that there are a lack of suitable men. I think men can easily get someone above them in looks because I don't think women judge just on looks. Why not go after someone you perceive as in the same league as yoruself?

[Reflective82]

Also-- I am pretty friendly and judge on things other than looks-- but sometimes I have literally had a guy that is a 2 come up to me and without meaning to sound rude, it is actually kind of upsetting because it makes you question your own league! I'd place myself as a 7.....but you never know

[blueidealist24]

 

But I want to add that you yourself have stated that you are socially awkward and lack social skills, and you need to know that this is so central to making a connection (or not making it), leagues are irrelevant. Even physical looks pale in significance.

 

 

This is true. I'm sorta awkward, and guys have said behind my back that I'm cute but they won't go out with me because I'm just "weird." If asked why they think so, according to friends, they said, "I dunno.. she's just.. weird."

 

I think some people in this thread could be rating themselves as too high in leagues. You can't all be 7s or 8s.. unless this is a board where all the super good looking people come.

[Reflective82]

Lol, well no way to know unless you post pictures....

[blueidealist24]

The reason I never post pics on here is that I have some past posts (from 2011, mostly) within which I sound like a deranged stalker about a guy, and I would almost die if anyone I knew associated me and them.

[Reflective82]

Yes I have thought of that too.....like what if someone recognised me and was like OMG- that absolute FREAK posted that stuff! I wouldn't mind sending someone one in a PM...but then there's no reason to do that haha

[Thorshammer]

Lol, well no way to know unless you post pictures....

 

True! Because i would go after a weird girl, i dont know many guys who wouldnt if they were cute and were decent enough in personality.

 

I would say my number skyrockets if i wear a tight shirt since i am muscular. But, i dated some pretty women when i was skinny. I think a good measurement of your attraction level (which can also include personality and charm) would come from the calibur or people who were interested in you.

[Silverbirch]

 

I would say my number skyrockets if i wear a tight shirt since i am muscular. But, i dated some pretty women when i was skinny. I think a good measurement of your attraction level (which can also include personality and charm) would come from the calibur or people who were interested in you.

 

LOL, I've wondered for a while what it means that quite a few gay men have told me I am just gorgeous??? I don't look at all like Liza Minnelli.

 

BTW Thors, I'm sure it was you who liked Jennifer Lopez, "Let's Get Loud" - and I always pictured you after that dancing in some club to that song. Yes, very attractive. Maybe I am confusing you with Jonas, but I thought you were in on that too.

[Thorshammer]

Oh, nevermind, i was crossing the street and some woman gave me a serious stank face when i looked at her, so i got negative points today, lol. Geeze, i just looked for a second then crossed the street, she wasnt even that pretty.

[Thorshammer]

LOL, I've wondered for a while what it means that quite a few gay men have told me I am just gorgeous??? I don't look at all like Liza Minnelli.

 

BTW Thors, I'm sure it was you who liked Jennifer Lopez, "Let's Get Loud" - and I always pictured you after that dancing in some club to that song. Yes, very attractive. Maybe I am confusing you with Jonas, but I thought you were in on that too.

 

Yes, that was me. I am puerto rican like her. Though i like shakira way more than jlo.

[blueidealist24]

True! Because i would go after a weird girl, i dont know many guys who wouldnt if they were cute and were decent enough in personality.

 

I would say my number skyrockets if i wear a tight shirt since i am muscular. But, i dated some pretty women when i was skinny. I think a good measurement of your attraction level (which can also include personality and charm) would come from the calibur or people who were interested in you.

 

I'm not sure if the "weird" that people say I am is the same kind of "weird" that you're thinking of. For example, I often make strange eye contact with people, often staring at them funny, I've been told. I sometimes think I have a slight form of Asperger's syndrome.

[Silverbirch]

Yes, that was me. I am puerto rican like her. Though i like shakira way more than jlo.

 

For sure a lot of women find men attractive who can let themselves go and just enjoy the music and dance in that way - men who they can have fun with. Most men aren't like that - not in anglo or American culture that I'm aware of. I like some Shakira to dance too. Maybe that is partly confidence - but it's also often a sort of "love of life" and joy for people of both sexes and I think very attractive.

 

Oh, and I don't care if he is gay, Ricki Martin is so beautiful!

[Slimpee]

I think there is a better question than "How do you know what league you are in?": So what?

 

How will knowing your "league" help your life? Even if there are definable "leagues", and you figure out which one you're in, you'll just switch to analyzing what league a woman is in and if she's within your "reach".

 

I mean you have to be realistic about who you'll approach (don't just limit yourself to 5'10" lingerie models) but if you approach a woman and she's not interested move on...no big deal.

 

Why burden yourself w/ more overanalyzing?

 

Edit for full disclosure: Occasionally, i'll ask one of my female friends if some woman is out of my league. The friend will always say "Hell no!" and make me feel better

[mylolita]

To be honest, everyone who I've known who thinks they're at the top of some attractive 'league', a typical 10 outta 10 is always the complete opposite to what I would ever go for long term.

 

The super tan, super buff, tall, bleached teeth, designer clothed I drive blah blah and I earn blah blah a year and let's go out to this fancy restaurant kind of guy is not what I want. To me, they're not the ideal. I really don't believe a lot of normal, nice women even want that type of guy! I wouldn't even want that kind of preened dude to get my rocks off with let alone date or have a serious relationship with!

 

No one appreciates a bragger or someone who walks around as if they're god's gift to women. Good looking and knows it can be a real turn off.

 

I think when people refer to someone being out of someone's league, it ususally implies the whole package as well as looks. I think it's a stupid concept.

 

I know beautiful, young women who have married older, intelligent men who have pot bellies, smoke and have an inappropriate sense of humour and can maybe be a bit too honest or a bit dorky in some way. Yet what they all do have is confidence! I really think confidence and self belief is a massive turn on to both sexes!

 

Everyone knows the beautiful girl who hates herself. Yet her friend who isn't quite as pretty but has a tonne of confidence and wears the cute little outfits and smiles and laughs and has a good attitude always gets the date, yet the truly beautiful, shy and insecure one is left out in the cold single?

 

I think the difference is confidence. Gaining confidence isn't easy and can take a lifetime. I do believe we develop it more as we get older.

 

Everyone has days when they feel insecure, but if it's taking over your life and you feel like every woman you meet is way above you (which by the way, will not be true!), then you need to make it your mission to learn to love yourself and self improve! Join a gym, gain some new hobbies, update your wardrobe and force yourself to talk to new people and build up your social skills and push yourself to appreciate what you already have!

 

Everyone is capable of finding someone they're super attracted too and hitting it off with them! It's not out of your reach! I think you just need some confidence and some self belief!

 

All the best,

 

- Lolita

[Donovan79]

leagues exist. to deny it is about PC propaganda.

 

Moreover, leagues are not absolutes. A 10 could readily date a 6, if s/he chose to do so.

 

So what you're saying is...

[Silverbirch]

lol.. Do you see life as one crushing event after another? is nothing positive in your world?

 

See, this is why psychology is evil. Who are psychologists to determine what is what in this world? I form my own beliefs and opinions, I don't need some psychologist to affirm to me what I think/believe.

 

I can't see anything that Lolita posted here as viewing life as "one crushing event after another" and actually thought her post was positive and affirming to the OP.

[happpybear]

I've been told by men, in the past, that I was out of their league. I had no idea what to say to that.

 

i have gotten this crap all throughout my life. usually from men who barely know me, and who are only focusing on my looks or certain aspects of my personality. I assume the reek of insecurity (and i'm usually right) and immature if they think this way, because i am a regular person with faults like everyone else.

[goodfoot]

Every woman I've dated someone has said they were out of my league...guess I'm an overachiever, lol.

[itsallgrand]

Your problem is that you do not respect or value yourself at all, and then for some reason you are surprised when other people decide to follow your lead.

 

I agree. And there is a lot more helpful insight in this thread for you too Dougie that could help you, if you want to take it and use it.

 

Personally, my mentality is one of "screw leagues". I'm aware that some people (perhaps a lot of people) will categorize me. That is their deal. It really does not have to do with me. I get to define myself for myself.

 

Who is attracted to me and who will form a connection with me can seem random at times. I don't always understand it. I'm often surprised actually by who is attracted to me. Sometimes it is a matter of paying attention - if you set your mind in one direction, you can miss out on seeing a lot of other possibilities and things going on. So it's important to pay attention. To what people are responding to. To who people are. To what they value.

 

I found Thors insights in to himself interesting - particularly how jaded women hate him. That made me laugh. Because he is cocky. Well I'm a little jaded, and certainly can't say I would ever hate a guy who has a lot of great traits for being cocky, but it is insightful that that particular trait (which he seems comfortable and fine with himself to express) will attract certain people, repel others.

 

And that is true of any trait. You could wake up one day, and show off one side of yourself, and attract a certain person. Then the next day, show another side of yourself, and attract someone completely different.

 

When people talk about leagues, they are really talking about what group are you honing in on or attracting. Most of us can play on more than one league! It's all a metaphor, that's all.