Is this really viewed as playing games?

[lostnscared]

I'm on another forum and I was posting advice(like I do here) to a woman who didn't understand why a man that she once liked stopped paying her attention the moment she began to show and express interest in him(she started texting him, calling him, trying to set up dates, etc). In other words, prior to her deciding to be the aggressor, he was very attentive, seemed very into her, but then when she began to take it upon herself to call him every now and then, text him more often, and even go as far as to ask him out on dates he basically faded away and lost interest.

 

So I told her that in the future, just let the man do everything(texting, calling, setting up dates) and just be receptive and warm. I also told her to keep busy as man typically seem to shy away from women who are overly available and don't have their own lives. I was flamed and I was told that this type of advice is playing games. Now I'll be the first admit that I do not have a significant amount of dating experience--I've been in two LTR and when the last LTR ended(an 8 year relationship) I did not date for about 5-6 months after, when I did date I dated one guy for a few months, and since then I have went on to date a couple of more(though nothing serious). BUT I have observed friends dating experience as well as the small amount that I've had and it seemed like when my friends(or me) chased the guy--as in showing a lot of interest by texting him randomly, calling him when we felt like it, and even asking him to hang out or go out that the guy would lost interest OR just expect me(or my friends) to do everything. On the other hand, when I did nothing and let the man call, arrange dates, and text me FIRST before responding it seemed like the man's interest maintained or peaked because I was matching his pace and giving him space and breathing room.

 

What I've done SINCE I got out of my last LTR is basically NOT initiate anything unless the man initiated first, and if he took too long to text me(i.e. more than 5 days) once he did text me I would wait 2-3 days before I got back to him--again to match his pace.

 

Now I have friends who will not follow this advice(that I've given them) and they continue to text guys when they feel like it, call guys when they want, and even ask the guy to hang out when they want. Half of them have luck doing this and things work out fine, half of them don't. But the one thing that I feel like MY APPROACH does is weed out men that are only half-interested in me. By letting the man initiate things and contact me I get to know if he truly likes me or doesn't and I also give us both space to see where things go. I admit that it does put the ball in the man's court completely and that some men might not like this or may want woman who equally initiate contact, but I feel like once a woman starts expressing too much interest there is a good chance that the guy will lose interest. Again this is just from observations, reading articles, studies, going on men's blogs, as well as woman's blogs, and then from personal experience that I've come to this conclusion.

 

Now am I wrong? Is it really playing games to put the ball completely in a man's court, to not always be so available?

 

I do want to add that once a man decides to be exclusive with me I'll start to initiate things as well, but until he is my boyfriend I will not.

[vesper]

yes, it is viewed as playing games, in todays market women need to chase after the man as much as the man chases after the woman, in my opinion. They have to chase eachother, if it is a one way streak, it will never work.

[lostnscared]

yes, it is viewed as playing games, in todays market women need to chase after the man as much as the man chases after the woman, in my opinion. They have to chase eachother, if it is a one way streak, it will never work.

 

Then why when women chase after men do they end up getting burned far more often then when they don't. I read on this forum, and the other one I venture on, tons of threads from women that texted a guy often, asked him out, called him, etc and he lost interest when prior to this when she was more unavailable or wasn't as interested he seemed MUCH more interested in pursuing her. It seems(again from these forums) that the moment the woman started taking it upon herself to do the things that he was doing at first(calling, texting, asking on dates) the man would back off or fade away.

 

Studies have shown that men like to pursue women and chase, but when a woman makes it too easy for him, or becomes the aggressor, the man gets turned off.

[Batya33]

I don't think there should be any chasing and I don't consider asking someone out "chasing". To me chasing is calling someone again and again even though the other person doesn't respond plus lots of flirting in person - basically crowding the other person without reciprocal interest.

[Klokwurk]

Bwahahaha, no, that isn't playing games. That's called courtship, and it's been around a long time for a reason.

[MikNomis]

As far as I'm concerned, if it works, it works. It's their happiness and no one else's.

[vesper]

Then why when women chase after men do they end up getting burned far more often then when they don't. I read on this forum, and the other one I venture on, tons of threads from women that texted a guy often, asked him out, called him, etc and he lost interest when prior to this when she was more unavailable or wasn't as interested he seemed MUCH more interested in pursuing her. It seems(again from these forums) that the moment the woman started taking it upon herself to do the things that he was doing at first(calling, texting, asking on dates) the man would back off or fade away.

 

Studies have shown that men like to pursue women and chase, but when a woman makes it too easy for him, or becomes the aggressor, the man gets turned off.

 

Well Im in a lot of trouble then because I asked out my man on a date.

[Cherry1010]

I dont know why you were flamed. Sounds like the people on that forum have nfi.

 

Agree with klokwork.

[Cherry1010]

yes, it is viewed as playing games, in todays market women need to chase after the man as much as the man chases after the woman, in my opinion. They have to chase eachother, if it is a one way streak, it will never work.

 

Well Im in a lot of trouble then because I asked out my man on a date.

 

Your dude is taking the piss.

 

Yes you are in trouble.

 

I believe in the way of courtship. A woman should not ask a man out. Period.

 

This thread asks a question that didnt need to be asked. Refer thread 'do men still chase in 2013'. It's all there.

[vesper]

I did not ask him out, I simply said when do I get to see you again? and he replied how about tuesday

[LikeWater]

Yes you are in trouble.

 

I believe in the way of courtship. A woman should not ask a man out. Period.

 

What a 1950's way of looking at things.

 

If you look here:

 

 

 

There are plenty of men who don't mind at all when the woman takes the initiative, including me.

[Cherry1010]

I did not ask him out, I simply said when do I get to see you again? and he replied how about tuesday

 

 

Could have gone either way. I asked a guy I was dating the same thing. Literally I kid you not didn't get a reply. Again. All other contact was initiated by me (one further) and then it was done.

 

It could look desperate. Granted, maybe he wasn't that into me Etc, but if your man is a confident guy, he wants to talk to you, let him contact you.

 

Don't do it.

 

That's my advice.

 

Okay let me ask you this? Did it feel good asking? No. It doesn't. Right?

[Cherry1010]

What a 1950's way of looking at things.

 

If you look here:

 

 

 

There are plenty of men who don't mind at all when the woman takes the initiative, including me.

 

It's probably from cave men era actually.

 

I don't want these type of men what a turn off.

 

Each to their own, luckily. Everyone has their opinions. I don't really care what you think. What are you going to say next you like it when women propose to men? Oh brother.

[LikeWater]

I don't really care what you think.

 

It really didn't have anything to do with what I think, I was just proving you wrong by showing you that there are a lot of guys who like the it when the woman makes the first move.

 

Of course, you're free to ignore the proof and keep living in your primitive mindset. Whatever.

[LikeWater]

What are you going to say next you like it when women propose to men? Oh brother.

 

Nah, I think marriage is pointless.

[lostnscared]

I do want to point out that I do have plenty of friends that call guys they like, text them, ask them to hang out, etc and things STILL progress to a relationship. So it isn't as if the only way to get a man to get serious about you is to follow what I said in my first post. Every man is different--though I have to admit that I think there are MORE men that like to chase than those that do not, but still every man is different. That being said the reason I gave that particular woman that advice is because the method she was using(being the contactor, asking guys out, being more aggressive and direct) was not working for her. I only recommended something that would A) Protect her feelings in the future and B) Get a man to invest in her who ALREADY likes her.

 

Now if a person has always ASKED out men, and/or texted men when they felt like it, called men when they felt like it, and it hasn't worked negatively for them then I don't see why they should change it up and all of the sudden stop doing the things that feel natural and that have worked for them. BUT if your like me, or other women and have found that when you initiate things it does not work out that well then I feel like maybe you should TRY what I've stated and just let the man take the lead and see if that works better. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.. But you could be very surprised.

[LikeWater]

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a perfectly sensible way to look at it.

[Batya33]

I think we also have to factor in what kind of man the woman is looking for. Perhaps she prefers to feel in control, perhaps she is turned off by men with more traditional views on dating, etc,

[lostnscared]

I think we also have to factor in what kind of man the woman is looking for. Perhaps she prefers to feel in control, perhaps she is turned off by men with more traditional views on dating, etc,

 

I agree. Some men are attracted to women who are more independent and somewhat assertive and confident about what they want. And for some women it's natural(and feels natural) to take the lead. On the other hand it's also important for the woman to consider the type of man she is dating. There are some men that are USED to women taking the initiative and lead and when a woman doesn't, it does peak his interest, but then he becomes insecure because he is used to women expressing their interest in a certain way and since this woman is not he doesn't think she is as interested. On the other hand a man that is used to woman initiating things, but finds one that will not, may be that MUCH more interest in her because she is not as assertive as the woman he is used to, this adds mystery and turns him on. And then you have men that PREFER to court the woman, to initiate things, and get turned off when a woman does it. There are so many variables for both people involved... That is why I said that for some people this approach(that I talked about earlier) may work or may work against them. It depends on the people involved. But there are SIGNS for woman(and men) that can help them decipher what method may or may not work with that particular person. For instance, a man who is used to having woman initiate things often will talk about it. I dated a guy earlier this year like that. He told me that his last girlfriend really liked him and pursued him so he went out with her. And then a girl he had a FWB with, SAME thing, she really liked him and asked him out and he went with it... I knew right away that he was a guy that was USED to women working to get his attention. I also knew that it could go two ways once I used the method described first post either A) He would think I didn't like him OR B)It would make him feel challenged and make him work that much harder.

 

What ended up happening was a mixture of both... On one hand he was very challenged and I noticed that he pursued me super hard and even said at one point "What do I have to do to get with you, you're making it so hard for me" But he had a huge smile on his face when he said it. Which meant that on deeper level he liked it.

 

But then, on the other hand, he was insecure. For instance on our first date he thought I was going to stand him up. He didn't believe I liked him and often said "yeah right" when I said it. He seemed extra insecure on certain occassions and would often want me to tell him face to face how I felt for him...

 

So it was a mixed bag...

 

But I think what I am trying to say is that you can somewhat tell if a man appreciates the chase, despises it, and if a woman likes traditional dating or despises it.

[Sportster2005]

Just because event B follows event A does not mean event A caused event B. He may have lost interest for other reasons.

[lostnscared]

Just because event B follows event A does not mean event A caused event B. He may have lost interest for other reasons.

 

This is true, but I was giving her advice BASED on what she said happen. She admitted that when she wasn't giving him attention and letting him take the lead, he pursued her heavily, but when she started to text him, call him, ask him to go out on dates all of the sudden he started to fade away. So she believed the cause was HER becoming the pursuer. Now, like you said, he could have just lost interest, or got to know her more and realized she wasn't what he was looking for. But going by what she stated, she felt that Event A did lead and cause event B to occur.

[Batya33]

"Some men are attracted to women who are more independent and somewhat assertive and confident about what they want."

 

Every man I ever dated seriously was-- because that's who I am. Didn't mean they would have been comfortable with my taking the lead in a romantic context. I do think some women make that mistake thinking it's a one size fits all - that they should act the way they would in going after let's say a job opportunity when pursuing a relationship. I also think some women who prefer instant gratification to waiting for a phone call rationalize that it's not the 1950s and they don't wait for phone calls in other areas of their lives.

I find even with friendships, when you meet someone new it's often good to give the other person enough space to get to know you even if it feels like you clicked right away.

[lostnscared]

I agree... I think that people should definitely give each other space and time the first 1-2 months of dating. It shouldn't be "Oh my Gosh he didn't text me today, he's texted me EVERYDAY but he missed ONE day" or "why hasn't he called me in a day"... I think that dating should be carefree in the early stages. Of course as things progress, and after the first month or two of getting to know each other, expectations can be raised a little but I think far too many people(women and men) want instant gratification early on and get frustrated or feel rejected when it doesn't happen.

 

I also will admit that my idea of courtship is not a one size fit all. I do often recommend my idea of courtship, when I'm giving advice to women, IF I notice that there was a lot of "I called him" or "I asked him out" or "I texted him" and it was repeated in their post several times(which indicates to me that she is probably doing too much too soon and needs to pull back). On the other hand I am very aware of men that will give up if a woman requires traditional courtship--and not always because he isn't interested, but because he appreciates and prefers a woman that isn't a "sit back and wait on him" type of woman.

 

I know that there are websites and books made for woman that give a one size fits all approach where woman should NOT do anything at all but let the man do everything, not answer his calls after certain times, not call him on certain days, etc. And these are often viewed as games. In some ways these "rules" can be good advice and in other ways they may backfire depending on the man and woman.

[Sportster2005]

This is true, but I was giving her advice BASED on what she said happen. She admitted that when she wasn't giving him attention and letting him take the lead, he pursued her heavily, but when she started to text him, call him, ask him to go out on dates all of the sudden he started to fade away. So she believed the cause was HER becoming the pursuer. Now, like you said, he could have just lost interest, or got to know her more and realized she wasn't what he was looking for. But going by what she stated, she felt that Event A did lead and cause event B to occur.

 

Yes it's quite possible that is exactly what caused it.

 

If he did not like to be pursued that's his personal decision. She may be better off in the long run. If he's all about the pursuit then he his probably a catch and release type of guy. So to answer your question, yes. This appears to be a guy who is more about game, than relationship.

[annie24]

I guess it depends on the guy. I know a man who has been happily married to his wife for 20 years. He met her in grad school and he pursued her relentlessly. She wouldn't give him the time of day. It took over a year for her to let him kiss her on her cheek. They were mainly friends/study buddies but he was in love with her. His friends told him he was nuts and that he should move on. He told me that if she had showed more interest in him earlier on, he would have lost interest in her and moved on.

 

His case is rather extreme. I think most men would eventually lose interest (sooner rather than later) if the most interest they get is a kiss on the cheek after 1 year. This woman wasn't playing games or playing "hard to get." She simply WAS HARD TO GET. She just totally wasn't into him until he wore her down, lol.

 

I guess it just depends on the guy.