Is this what "settling" means?

[MattW]

I think this is what the OP is talking about...connecting on a friendship level and over time it blossoms.

 

Pretty much, yes. Basically, what I prefer is a "friends first" type of dating model. I'm not looking for the "instant attraction"; I don't necessarily believe in "love at first sight" (in general, I mean; I'm sure it happens to some people), and that's not what I'm looking for. Heck, with the girl I was recently interested in, it wasn't until I had known her for over a year that I decided I liked her enough to want to go out with her. Ideally, it wouldn't always take THAT long, but that's basically what I'd prefer, some level of friendship for a while before dating someone.

 

Honestly, I think the whole "friend zone" thing is a bit of a myth. I think that mostly happens when a guy bends over backwards for an ambivalent girl and treats her like some kind of princess before any dating has even begun. Basically, he gives himself to her completely before he's even asked her out. I don't do that. I try to maintain a certain "distance" from people (emotionally), and I'm not looking for a girl to treat like a "princess". I want an equal partner, someone I feel I can go anywhere, do anything with, and say anything to. I don't bend over backwards for people until they've given me a good reason to do so. I don't act like some lovestruck puppy dog, I don't do that sappy dopey stuff that gets guys "friend zoned".

[superfan]

It does and it doesn't. That was the point where I decided to try to date and get to know people - I had been single for 6 years up to that point. If I were still in the same mindset that I was before (of wanting to have that "connection" first) then I would not have allowed that friendship to develop between my husband and I. The only reason it didn't begin with dating was because of the distance. Otherwise, we would have gone out and tried things out right away.

 

And like I said, even when my husband presented himself as wanting to be involved romantically I was hesitant because I didn't know if that "spark" was there.

[superfan]

Honestly, I think the whole "friend zone" thing is a bit of a myth. I think that mostly happens when a guy bends over backwards for an ambivalent girl and treats her like some kind of princess before any dating has even begun. Basically, he gives himself to her completely before he's even asked her out. I don't do that. I try to maintain a certain "distance" from people (emotionally), and I'm not looking for a girl to treat like a "princess". I want an equal partner, someone I feel I can go anywhere, do anything with, and say anything to. I don't bend over backwards for people until they've given me a good reason to do so. I don't act like some lovestruck puppy dog, I don't do that sappy dopey stuff that gets guys "friend zoned".

 

What you are talking about is perceived "nice guy" syndrome...which you are right is not the way to go. But the friendzone is 100% real. Definitely not a myth. I know a few different instances where I had initially had some interest in a guy and he didn't seem to reciprocate. I then moved on and we would develop a friendship and they eventually would display some level of interest, but at that point to me, they were no longer a romantic prospect. I saw them as too much of a "buddy" and couldn't dredge up that same level of interest.

 

You don't have to fall all over a girl like a lovesick puppy, but at the same time, you shouldn't hold yourself back from a girl or refuse to show her you are interested because in a lot of cases, you might miss the window. Maybe that happened with the other girl you were interested in.

[MattW]

But the friendzone is 100% real. Definitely not a myth.

 

All I really meant is, while it happens to some people, I don't think it's set in stone that, if you know someone for an extended period of time, you're most likely in the "friend zone". I think that has a lot to do with how "close" you allow yourself to become with someone that you're not romantically involved with. Some people certainly allow friendships to get close enough that dating actually would be "weird", but again, I think as long as there's a certain amount of "distance" there, the "friend zone" is fairly avoidable.

 

Heck, once again using the recent girl I asked out as an example, a few weeks before I actually asked her out, I had overheard another guy we know asking her out, and I heard her repeatedly deflect him by saying "I feel like that would be really weird". She didn't say anything like that to me. I know I can't use this one experience as a generalization, but I feel like, over the 1.5 years I knew her, we got "close", but not "close enough" where the idea of dating me seemed weird to her. She seemed to at least consider it and give it some thought, so it seems pretty clear to me that I didn't get "friend zoned" and was rejected for a different reason.

[camus154]

No, you were friend-zoned long before that. If she saw you as potential for more than a friend, she would have said yes.

 

All the friend-zone really means is that you're friend material, not boyfriend material. Now granted, you can start off as friends with a woman and that can change the more you get to know each other, but in general I think people of both gender know fairly early on whether someone will ever have potential to be more.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It does and it doesn't. That was the point where I decided to try to date and get to know people - I had been single for 6 years up to that point. If I were still in the same mindset that I was before (of wanting to have that "connection" first) then I would not have allowed that friendship to develop between my husband and I. The only reason it didn't begin with dating was because of the distance. Otherwise, we would have gone out and tried things out right away.

 

And like I said, even when my husband presented himself as wanting to be involved romantically I was hesitant because I didn't know if that "spark" was there.

 

I am a bit confused...you had a friendship with your husband first, you didn't consider dating him...it was just someone to have a friendship with and in the meantime you were pursuing others with no thought of dating your now husband. So it is possible with the friendship notion in mind, you still would have been friends with him even if your desire to take a chance meeting and dating new people wouldn't have been awakened. There was no risk with this guy because he was just your friend. The bottom line is that you started off as friends who clearly had lots in common and eventually became a couple. This is exactly what the OP is talking about..he is not referring to "sparks" he is referring to interest based on friendship and knowning the person on a deeper level than just the superficialness of dating a stranger. By the time you started dating your husband, he was no longer a stranger to you...you had built up a solid foundation. This is what the OP is talking about.

[MattW]

No, you were friend-zoned long before that. If she saw you as potential for more than a friend, she would have said yes.

 

Sure, but what I meant was, I don't think she said no because we were "too close" and us having a friendship would've made it "weird". I think the reasons for her rejecting me were unrelated to that. If that were the case, I think she would've told me that. She's always been pretty "up front" about stuff, and it wouldn't have been hurtful to me at all had she said "I don't think of you that way" or "Let's just be friends", or something like that.

 

Anyway, I just don't buy into the idea that people decide early on what they think of other people, and then (for the most part) that's it, there's little chance to be anything more. I think it's definitely possible for people to change their mind about other people, the more they get to know them. Heck, this girl in particular seemed a bit "rough around the edges", personality-wise, when I first met her (not to mention, there were things that caused me to not find her particularly attractive physically), but as I got to know her more, I got to see her personality better, and I realized I liked it a lot. The more I realized that, the more I started opening up to her, and letting her see my real personality.

 

So, I think if my mind can change so drastically about a person over time, I don't see why it's so "unlikely" for other people to have the same kind of realizations. It seems like a pretty sad, depressing thought to think that we're all pretty much "set in stone" as something or other to someone shortly after meeting them... If that's the case, then no one will ever be attracted to me because I don't make great first impressions and I stay reserved around people until I've gotten to know them better.

[camus154]

Anyway, I just don't buy into the idea that people decide early on what they think of other people, and then (for the most part) that's it, there's little chance to be anything more. I think it's definitely possible for people to change their mind about other people, the more they get to know them.

 

So, I think if my mind can change so drastically about a person over time, I don't see why it's so "unlikely" for other people to have the same kind of realizations.

 

I hear you. But the mistake here is failing to distinguish between what's possible and what's likely. For every story you give me about two friends who one day went further, I'll give you 10 that end in the friend-zone.

[MattW]

CAD seems to get what it is I want, and the "dating model" I'd prefer to have. It kinda brings me down, though, to see that everyone seems to unanimously agree that I'm "doing it wrong" and that that way "doesn't work".

[camus154]

I apologize if I'm not quite understanding where you're coming from.

 

I don't necessarily think you're "doing it wrong". I just think by your posts that you may tend to over-analyze things and it might not hurt to lighten up a bit. You're young, man. Is it possible you're taking things too seriously? I don't mean that to be glib.

[HeatherB]

CAD seems to get what it is I want, and the "dating model" I'd prefer to have. It kinda brings me down, though, to see that everyone seems to unanimously agree that I'm "doing it wrong" and that that way "doesn't work".

 

There is no "doing it wrong." Your style is just not the norm, so no woman is going to understand what you are doing--until you explain it. The right woman will find you incredibly romantic and spiritual, even. It's just that finding her and securing her interest is going to be the big sticking point. You're obviously smart. So I bet you can figure your way out of all this.

[MattW]

I apologize if I'm not quite understanding where you're coming from.

 

I don't necessarily think you're "doing it wrong". I just think by your posts that you may tend to over-analyze things and it might not hurt to lighten up a bit. You're young, man. Is it possible you're taking things too seriously? I don't mean that to be glib.

 

I didn't mean to sound like I was offended by anything anyone has said here, because I'm not. It just kinda brings me down to think that the method that makes sense to me is basically "wrong", because the other method doesn't appeal to me at all, in any way, shape, or form. Again, not in a way where I "fear" it, but it just doesn't make sense to me, period. I can't see myself doing it that way.

 

I know I'm "still young", but it feels like the years are slipping by really quickly, and I still feel like I'm not even close to finding any of the things I want out of life. By my age, most people have already found at least one person to be in a "relationship" with, even if it didn't last "forever". I'm not trying to compare myself to others, but I can't help but wonder, if everyone else can seem to find it at least once in their lives, why can't I? What's so different about me and/ or "wrong" with me that I still can't even find one person? Heck, I'd be happy if I'd have had one relationship that ended after a certain amount of time, because at least then I'd feel like it's "out there" for me somewhere. But the way things are now? It's hard. It's frustrating. Deep down inside, I'm super lonely, especially knowing that I know several people who are dating, in relationships, getting married, or are married. I don't know even one person in my life right now that's as bad off in that regard as I am, and that just seems sad, to me. I have no one to even relate to, yanno?

 

I see so many people with significant others, and even if they may not last forever, even if they may end badly one day, they're happy with each other now, in the present, and I just don't get it. It boggles my mind that so many people can find that (again, even if it's only temporary for them), and for whatever reason, I can't.

[camus154]

I know I'm "still young", but it feels like the years are slipping by really quickly, and I still feel like I'm not even close to finding any of the things I want out of life.

 

Dude, you're 23. The only difference between you and all the other 23 year olds around you is that you're honest enough to admit you don't know it all by now

 

By my age, most people have already found at least one person to be in a "relationship" with, even if it didn't last "forever". I'm not trying to compare myself to others, but I can't help but wonder, if everyone else can seem to find it at least once in their lives, why can't I? What's so different about me and/ or "wrong" with me that I still can't even find one person?

 

But haven't you already identified what's so different about you? Isn't that kind of the crux of this thread? You know you approach things differently, so the logical consequence of that is your own results are going to reflect that.

 

There's nothing "wrong" with you. Perhaps you're just more picky than others. All these people around you who have at least been with someone by now, they're most likely going to burn through several relationships before settling into one long-term. That's how most people do it.

 

Perhaps you'll be a case of quality versus quantity. Maybe you'll go a bit longer to find a good relationship, but when you do, it will be the only one you need. I don't know. The point is--you can't look at what everyone else has and try to compare it to yourself when you acknowledge that your own approach is different from theirs.

[superfan]

I didn't consider dating him because he was in another country. I lived in Canada and he lived in Scotland. If he had lived in Canada at that point my life I wouldn't have pursued a friendship OR a relationship. I didn't feel that "instant spark". I would not have gone the 'just friends' route. The fact that we slowly built up a foundation is accidental and my story is fairly uncommon. We COULDN'T date because of the distance. And I agree that building up a solid foundation and learning to get to know someone is a good idea - but it is still "coming in at the end of the movie". Unless he meets someone in another country who he can't date because there is an ocean between them, it's a good idea to try to date as a process of getting to know the person. Otherwise you might miss out on someone you may truly connect with somewhere down the line.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

There are three choices:

1. Accept who you are and your comfort level, accepting that by being different from the norm you won't have the dating volume that others have.

2. Force yourself to be who you are not comfortable being in order to fit into society's norm and have a string of serial relationships.

3. Change your mindset about dating so that you can comfortably go out and have dates with all kinds of women in case one of them develops into something further.

 

Only you can decide which way to go on this..and you don't have to stick to one..you can try and if you don't like it you can go back to the method you feel most comfortable with.

[MattW]

3. Change your mindset about dating so that you can comfortably go out and have dates with all kinds of women in case one of them develops into something further.

 

For the record, it's not that I haven't tried to "change my mind" over the years. I just... can't do it. It's not easy at all to force your mindset to change to something that doesn't make much sense to you, yanno? I'm sure to most people, the way I think about things and whatnot probably seems absurd and maybe doesn't make much sense. But what can I do? It's how I feel about the whole process, and when I have a strong conviction about something, that's not exactly the easiest thing to change.

 

I dunno. I... guess I can accept the idea of never finding that special someone. I did for a while, but when I fell for this girl recently, I sort of threw all that out the window, and all my thoughts and feelings about dating, relationships, and all that, came rushing back into my head. Now I have to start all over with dumping them out of my head again, and relearning to be okay with not having anyone. Or, heck, maybe I'll just "settle" for someone I don't feel that connected with. A lot of other people end up doing that, it seems, and I think at the rate I'm going, I'm definitely going to come to that point eventually where I'd rather have ANYONE than no one at all. It's not exactly the ideal situation, but logically speaking, those will most likely be my only two options.

[camus154]

For the record, it's not that I haven't tried to "change my mind" over the years. I just... can't do it. It's not easy at all to force your mindset to change to something that doesn't make much sense to you, yanno? I'm sure to most people, the way I think about things and whatnot probably seems absurd and maybe doesn't make much sense. But what can I do? It's how I feel about the whole process, and when I have a strong conviction about something, that's not exactly the easiest thing to change.

 

Saying "it's not easy" is of no value. What in life is particularly easy? Just because things are hard doesn't mean they can't be done.

 

I dunno. I... guess I can accept the idea of never finding that special someone. I did for a while, but when I fell for this girl recently, I sort of threw all that out the window, and all my thoughts and feelings about dating, relationships, and all that, came rushing back into my head. Now I have to start all over with dumping them out of my head again, and relearning to be okay with not having anyone. Or, heck, maybe I'll just "settle" for someone I don't feel that connected with. A lot of other people end up doing that, it

 

But so what? You think you're the first person to get their hopes up on one person only for them to be dashed away? This is life, man. You invest in things that have no guarantee of working out. And if they don't, you dust yourself off and get right back in the saddle again.

 

I know it kind of sucks, but you seem to be viewing all of this through the eyes of "but it's not fair!" Well, no, it's not. Why would you think it would be?

[tazunemono]

Also, I wonder if guys who are just now starting to understand that most women aren't Playboy center folds, does that make them depressed? Like when they think that they are settling for a woman who wouldn't get paid as a model, does that make them feel worse about themselves? Do they grieve the loss of the type of girl they thought they would be with?

 

When I see a *really* attractive girl, YES part of me really hurts that I can't be with someone that "genetically gifted" ... then again, I feel the same way about a nice Ferrari or a huge pile of $100's ... I'll never have either of those in my life, either. At least you can rent a Ferrari...lol

[MattW]

Saying "it's not easy" is of no value. What in life is particularly easy? Just because things are hard doesn't mean they can't be done.

 

No, but there's no tangible way to change your entire perspective on a major subject. At this point, it's something that's ingrained in my mind, it's a part of who I am. How the heck do you change a very strong belief you hold? It's not like... I dunno, like losing weight, for example, where you can say "work out x amount of hours a day, and you'll lose weight".

 

But so what? You think you're the first person to get their hopes up on one person only for them to be dashed away? This is life, man. You invest in things that have no guarantee of working out. And if they don't, you dust yourself off and get right back in the saddle again.

 

I know it kind of sucks, but you seem to be viewing all of this through the eyes of "but it's not fair!" Well, no, it's not. Why would you think it would be?

 

It's not that I'm upset because "it's not fair". I'm just very frustrated how I can't seem to "crack the code", and I grow more and more frustrated as time goes on. I may still be young, but the years are passing me by. In another month or so, I'll be 24. Next year, I'll be 25. The year after that, 26. Heck, I remember when I was 16, and as horrible as high school was, deep down, I knew I was smart, and that once I finished high school, I'd have the whole world ahead of me, and I could have the life I wanted to have. That was almost eight years ago, and yet, here I am, still not any closer to having the life I want, and with seemingly nothing on the horizon for me any time soon.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to act like "it's not fair!" and "the world has screwed me over!". I just... I don't understand why I'm the way I am. I'm not looking to place blame on anyone or anything for the way I am. I'm... unusual, compared to most people, in a lot of aspects. I can't help it. It's not a "choice" I made. It's just who I am.

[camus154]

No, but there's no tangible way to change your entire perspective on a major subject. At this point, it's something that's ingrained in my mind, it's a part of who I am. How the heck do you change a very strong belief you hold? It's not like... I dunno, like losing weight, for example, where you can say "work out x amount of hours a day, and you'll lose weight".

 

The easiest way of changing a belief or paradigm is examining how well it's working for you. And to examine alternative paradigms.

 

It's not that I'm upset because "it's not fair". I'm just very frustrated how I can't seem to "crack the code", and I grow more and more frustrated as time goes on. I may still be young, but the years are passing me by. In another month or so, I'll be 24. Next year, I'll be 25. The year after that, 26. Heck, I remember when I was 16, and as horrible as high school was, deep down, I knew I was smart, and that once I finished high school, I'd have the whole world ahead of me, and I could have the life I wanted to have. That was almost eight years ago, and yet, here I am, still not any closer to having the life I want, and with seemingly nothing on the horizon for me any time soon.

 

Well, here's a start--the life you want for yourself shouldn't just entail being happy with a woman. Not saying that you think it does, but you are stating that when the topic here is relationships. What else do you want out of life and what have you done to go about getting those things?

 

I just... I don't understand why I'm the way I am. I'm not looking to place blame on anyone or anything for the way I am. I'm... unusual, compared to most people, in a lot of aspects. I can't help it. It's not a "choice" I made. It's just who I am.

 

You don't have to abandon who you are as a person, but you absolutely can control certain aspects of that. People who are naturally shy can work at becoming more social. People who are naturally afraid of large crowds or public speaking can work to overcome those things. People have a lot more choice on who they are than you might think.

 

Besides, who you are changes naturally as you mature and gain more experience. All the stuff you think you know gets turned on its head. Don't be surprised if you change your sense of self several times over.

[MattW]

The easiest way of changing a belief or paradigm is examining how well it's working for you. And to examine alternative paradigms.

 

Perhaps. But the alternative still just doesn't make any sense to me. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of dating someone without knowing them a bit and having some level of friendship beforehand.

 

Well, here's a start--the life you want for yourself shouldn't just entail being happy with a woman. Not saying that you think it does, but you are stating that when the topic here is relationships. What else do you want out of life and what have you done to go about getting those things?

 

See, though, the other things I want out of life take time. For example, I'd like to have a good career. But in order to do that, I still have a couple more years of education to work through. I don't have the ability to just complete my education in a short period of time and get a good job.

 

Making progress with women, on the other hand, is something I can do at any time, and could have been doing for years now. I don't have to wait x amount of years to date. That can happen right now, if things were different.

 

Does that make sense? I'm not saying having a special lady in my life is the only thing that matters, but it's something I could've been making progress on for a while now, and haven't been. On the other hand, I do value that "love" and "companionship" above anything else; I mean, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a crappy career and whatnot, but have a loving supporting lady to enjoy life with, than a good career and a good life, but with no one to share it with.

[camus154]

Perhaps. But the alternative still just doesn't make any sense to me. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of dating someone without knowing them a bit and having some level of friendship beforehand.

 

Well, that's what dating is for. To get to know people. But you're in the express lane instead of stuck behind the blue hair trying to exit. You have a singular purpose up front--you're looking for Ms. Right--instead of friend bonding for 3 years and then one day realizing, gee, I think I'm in love.

 

It's not much different than how you make friends, really. You meet someone. Hey, they seem cool. You like some similar things. You start hanging out. You start "clicking". Presto, you have a new friend. Would it make any sense to make friends by first having some lengthy "pre-friend" process?

 

See, though, the other things I want out of life take time. For example, I'd like to have a good career. But in order to do that, I still have a couple more years of education to work through. I don't have the ability to just complete my education in a short period of time and get a good job.

 

Ok. So now you know why you're not there yet in regards to your career. So next time you feel like you don't have the life you wanted, recognize that you're still working towards it. That's the truly important part.

 

Making progress with women, on the other hand, is something I can do at any time, and could have been doing for years now. I don't have to wait x amount of years to date. That can happen right now, if things were different.

 

But why CAN'T you do that right now? It's not because fate is unkind to you, remember. If you can say you don't have to wait X years to date, then why are you saying you need to know a woman X years as a friend before you'll even consider her date material?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

crappy career and whatnot, but have a loving supporting lady to enjoy life with, than a good career and a good life, but with no one to share it with.

 

Many people actually feel quite the opposite when their happy relationship suddenly turns sour and they end up divorced and with a crappy career.

[MattW]

But dating typically constitutes spending one-on-one time with a girl to get to know her. Just "making friends" can happen any time. You don't have to spend one-on-one time with someone to become friends with them, or get to know them.

 

The bottom line is this... I'm not saying I have to know a girl x amount of time, or whatever (though, it would likely at least take me weeks or months in any case). What I'm really saying is, I don't want to date someone I'm not attracted to, and it can take me a while to find a particular quality in a girl that I'm attracted to. Am I making sense here? Like I've been saying, I need a reason to want to go out with a girl, and it's not something as superficial as "Ooh, she's pretty". It's not really easy to put into words what it is I look for; it's more of a "I'll know it when I see it" kind of thing. I just... never really see it. In other words, it's not that I'm waiting for any specific amount of time to pass, I'm simply waiting to see if a girl has something that attracts me to them.

 

I can't just force myself to be attracted to girls, and again, I don't want to go out with someone I'm not attracted to. So where does that leave me?

 

 

 

Sure, but that was just a rhetorical example, with the implication that I'd take a lifelong partner (as in, no divorces/ breakups) and a crappy everything else over a great everything else and never having a partner.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Sure, but that was just a rhetorical example, with the implication that I'd take a lifelong partner (as in, no divorces/ breakups) and a crappy everything else over a great everything else and never having a partner.

 

The thing is you never know if the relationship is going to end due to a break up or death so it is always a good idea to be happy with the work you choose to do for your entire life because relationships may come and go but your life is yours until the end and you have to make sure you are fulfilled in something that you spend a good chunk of your waking hours doing.