Public Humiliation as a Discipline Method?

[FairyGodmother]

There is a picture circulating on Facebook of a young girl (maybe between the ages of 10 and 12) holding up a hand painted sign in front of traffic, saying "I LIED TO MY DAD", whilst her father supervises.

 

The vast majority of people who commented on the picture agreed with what the father had done, saying things like "more people need to be their child's parents and not their friend" or "this will really teach her respect, and not to lie", on the basis that being caught lying later in life will be more embarassing than the sign holding ever was.

 

Personally, I strongly disagree with this. First of all, I think that if the child lies it is likely to be a reflection of poor parenting. Seconldy, something more along the lines of losing a privilege (phone, tv, computer) for two weeks seems more appropriate to me. I'm not sure that public humiliation should ever be used to discipline.

 

What do you think?

[Moontiger]

Depends on the child. If my parents had done this with my brother he probably never would have started doing drugs, gotten in trouble with the law, and had to go to rehab.

 

Now, if it was me I would have been traumatized for life.

[JessicaLeekley]

All children will lie at some point it is stupid to suggest otherwise... being a pathological liar or severe lying can reflect on parenting but lying is part of learning boundaries all children do it. Secondly, I do agree public humiliation is severe and can have huge effects on a child's development.

[OptomisticGirl]

 

First of all, I think that if the child lies it is likely to be a reflection of poor parenting.

 

You've clearly never been around children, have you?

 

I see no problem with it. It's not like he's got her dressed in an orange jumpsuit digging on the side of the road, she's simply holding a sign that says I lied to my parent so everyone can see. I can remember being about 6 and asking my mom for a piece of gum. She said no so I pocketed it. Once my mother found out what I had done she turned the car around and made me go back into the store, hand the manager the piece of gum, and explain that I had taken it without permission and therefore had stole. That set me straight more than having play time outside taken away from me for a few days ever could.

[FairyGodmother]

Depends on the child. If my parents had done this with my brother he probably never would have started doing drugs, gotten in trouble with the law, and had to go to rehab.

 

Now, if it was me I would have been traumatized for life.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean, so I'm rewriting it. Is it possible to have a child that was raised in all the right ways, was never traumatized, is loved and cared for, to still behave badly? In a way that no amount of parenting without public humiliation would help stop this behavior?

[HeartGoesOn]

That's awful. I wonder if this would be considered a form of child abuse?

[OptomisticGirl]

I personally do not understand how such a child could exist - if it was raised in a way so that it wouldn't even want to act out (if that's possible). Can't you just emphasize repeatedly from the moment that they discover lying that it is bad? Or are some children just inclined to act out no matter how hard you try as a parent?

 

All children (and teenagers) test their boundaries. It's a part of growing up. Once you realize what a lie is and that it can maybe get you out of trouble, you'll test it one day to see if it works. If your caught doing it and punished chances are you don't do it again until that next 'testing the boundaries' stage comes.

[itsallgrand]

Parenting and facebook,

I saw this youtube video of a father basically disciplining his daughter via youtube,

due to her lying,

he gives her hell and shoots up her laptop on youtube,

and though it was interesting and he had some good points,

imagine actually being that kid.

 

I don't know exactly how I feel about it. I think a middle road would be much better. I just know I wouldn't use that method. Not with a child of mine (who doesn't exist, keep in mind) and not with any other kid.

 

There is a lot of bad parenting out there and honestly,

in my experience,

the worst of it is negligence,

and those kids often aren't seen,

 

so at the very least,

at least these parents open up themselves to scrutiny?

[FairyGodmother]

All children (and teenagers) test their boundaries. It's a part of growing up. Once you realize what a lie is and that it can maybe get you out of trouble, you'll test it one day to see if it works. If your caught doing it and punished chances are you don't do it again until that next 'testing the boundaries' stage comes.

 

So there is basically no way of stopping them from trying it? Couldn't you explain what lying is to them before they discover it on their own and really stress that it is not a good thing to do? Or will that not matter?

[Moontiger]

There is also a BIG pieces of this we don't know, 1) What was the lie? 2)How often did she lie/get in trouble? 3)What had the parents done before this?

 

The child wasn't physically injured and really the only thing that was hurt was her pride. I really don't see anything wrong with it as long as the parents are being safe (child not left alone, bathroom breaks, water, etc).

[Moontiger]

EDIT: Sorry, I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean, so I'm rewriting it. Is it possible to have a child that was raised in all the right ways, was never traumatized, is loved and cared for, to still behave badly? In a way that no amount of parenting without public humiliation would help stop this behavior?

 

Have you EVER spend an extend amount of time around children???

 

All kid's test their boundaries.

[Moontiger]

So there is basically no way of stopping them from trying it? Couldn't you explain what lying is to them before they discover it on their own and really stress that it is not a good thing to do? Or will that not matter?

 

Hard to do when they can lie from the time they are infants: link removed

[OptomisticGirl]

So there is basically no way of stopping them from trying it? Couldn't you explain what lying is to them before they discover it on their own and really stress that it is not a good thing to do? Or will that not matter?

 

Have you never lied to your parents or someone else? Did your parents not explain the same things to you?

 

My mother explained what lying to me was long before I really knew what it was, but it's human nature to test boundaries. Children don't simply go 'okay' when told something, it's the human factor to see WHY that is so. I was told to look both ways before crossing the street as a child. Always did. One time was in a hurry (as a teenager), forgot, and almost got ran the crap over. It wasn't until put in that situation that I realized WHY it was important to look both ways. As an adult if you lie to your boss do they dock your hours? Do they take away your paid time off? Of course not. Would having less hours hurt you? Sure, but is it getting to hurt more than knowing the entire work place knows you lied?

[OptomisticGirl]

EDIT: Sorry, I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean, so I'm rewriting it. Is it possible to have a child that was raised in all the right ways, was never traumatized, is loved and cared for, to still behave badly? In a way that no amount of parenting without public humiliation would help stop this behavior?

 

Yes. While I have traumas in my childhood I was also raised the right way. Treat your elders with respect and don't lie and steal. I still tested my boundaries. It's up to the parent to decide how they see best to discipline. I know parents who have had kids steal things who just simply threw the things away and took away the xbox. My mother made me go back in the store (in front of customers and employees) and explain what I had done. It got the message loud and clear it was very, very wrong to go.

[itsallgrand]

You've clearly never been around children, have you?

 

I see no problem with it. It's not like he's got her dressed in an orange jumpsuit digging on the side of the road, she's simply holding a sign that says I lied to my parent so everyone can see. I can remember being about 6 and asking my mom for a piece of gum. She said no so I pocketed it. Once my mother found out what I had done she turned the car around and made me go back into the store, hand the manager the piece of gum, and explain that I had taken it without permission and therefore had stole. That set me straight more than having play time outside taken away from me for a few days ever could.

 

It's so funny you mention that because just today my co-worker and I were talking about experiences as a kid when we wanted or did pilfer something.

 

Her mom either would look the other way, or she even described watching her parents steal small things and laughing about it. And one time she wanted a kids barbie doll in a park, the kid had left it behind to go to the bathroom or something, and her mom encouraged her to grab and go!

 

My experiences as a kid were all vivid and like yours, Optimistic Girl. If I took something, I was made to bring it back, publicly apologize, and usually there was some small punishment as well. Not getting something I wanted, usually.

 

And I remember those times so well. How ashamed I was. How - I must have been a decent kid - I felt really bad disappointing people.

 

But of course kids are different. However, some methods hold true. Like holding a kid responsible for poor decisions that they have been taught are wrong. I guess it's in the how to do that where you get the spectrum of "oh that 's too loose, that's too strict" debates.

 

I've seen far too many kids who simply didn't have parenting period.

[FairyGodmother]

I took a psychology class in college, and we learned that positive punishment (making them do something undesirable) is the worst form of discipline because it fosters resentment and hatred of the person who inflicted it, rather than understanding of the "crime". Following that line, my suggestion of removing a privilege is negative punishment (not letting them do something desirable) is much more effective because it creates less emotional damage. The best thing is apparently positive rewards (allowing them something desirable if they do well), or negative rewards (taking away something undesirable, like chores, for a moment in time, say a day). Obviously though these two are hard to apply to a situation like lying. I guess if they did something bad, and told the truth instead of lying you could punish them for the infringement but lessen it because they told the truth, and let them know that that is why it was lessened.

[OptomisticGirl]

Exactly. Even as an adult the thought of taking something I hadn't paid for makes me shudder because I'm a good person. I was raised with good manners and I'm a decent human being. Because I know how that can feel (the feeling of being caught) I don't steal (also because of the legal ramifications!) We tell our teenagers not to drink before 21 - how well does that work? Normally it takes something horrible happening to them for them to realize it's bad or they just get lucky and nothing ever happens to them. Then as adults they look back and go 'I was way too young to be doing that'.

[Moontiger]

Not to be mean, but just take one class in college doesn't really give you everything you need to know about child development. At 12, why should she get a reward for telling the truth?

 

I don't think we really know enough about the situation to judge the father's choice here.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree with the last statement. My mother always told me 'if you do bad and tell me the truth, you will only be punished for the act. If you lie to me it's going to be double the punishment'. But kids test those boundaries (shoot, I know I did!) I can honestly say I don't resent my mother for doing positive punishment. I don't even remember resenting her as a kid. I remember being angry but it never lasted long. After the positive punishment my mother always sat me down and asked what I had learned, did I know why I had to do x, y and z. I was never awarded for doing something I SHOULD have been doing anyway. You are suppose to always tell the truth - why would I have been rewarded for doing that? I was awarded when I did things I was asked to do (outside chores as chores was something I SHOULD have been doing).

 

People see the little girl standing with the sign, but they have no idea what form of discipline follows that or not (ie sitting down with her or not sitting with her).

[FairyGodmother]

By the way, I'm only 20, and I have never baby sat or had younger siblings to deal with (and even if I had my parents aren't good examples of parenting) so no I haven't had experience around children. I posted this thread to learn though, and that's what I'm trying to do, not be insulted by how little I know.

 

And I don't pretend to be a child psychologist, I was simply adding that info to see what people thought of it in real life experiences.

[OptomisticGirl]

 

And I don't pretend to be a child psychologist, I was simply adding that info to see what people thought of it in real life experiences.

 

In my experience it doesn't work and actually causes more problems and than it fixes.

 

my 2 year old nephew - God I love him - but he's going to be a hand full. Children learn very early what no means. He knows what it means because if he reaches for something he isn't suppose to have and we say no, he instantly stops. Do you think that stops him from going back after it after a few seconds? Ah, no. He's going to be one that constantly tests boundaries. I can tell him no 50 times but after each time he WILL try to reach for that object until I put it out of his reach - which usually is followed my a screaming fit I ignore. He use to like to reach for wires (of any kind - to the lamps, computer, you name it). About a month back he reached for my sister's straightener wire as she was doing her hair, jerked it out of her hand and when it fell it burnt the sides of his foot. So far he hasn't reached for any wires since the incident.

[poetryandlyrics]

Well. We don't know the story behind it, the lie, if the child had been disciplined or talked to before lying again, or whatever.

 

I think that method would certainly work on me. Would definitely set me straight. But only if there's still parental supervision as moon tiger had said to make me feel safe still rather being more traumized at being left alone and doing that. That'd overpower the lesson being taught. I'd just end up "hating" the parent but learning there are consequences. And since I was an extremely shy child, being in public like that would set me straight. It would work on me since I was also an unruly child (acting out extremely due to a lack of real discipline needed and a broken home). If I wasn't from those reasons, maybe being talked to with reasons to why my behavior was wrong and why lying was wrong and blahblah would work (I often just needed to be explained to like a child-adult to accept the situation). But I don't know that "me" in that life. Maybe I'd still be a bit bratty.

[metrogirl]

You could be the best parent in the world and children will still lie about stuff. I don't think it's means they were raised by bad parents. My parents did the best they could with me and I was a rascal growing up. I think a lot of it has to do with who the kids peers are at school as well. As parents we can't spend every waking second with our children so yeah, they learn a lot of their bad behaviors at school or in a social environment.

 

I raised 4 kids by myself, I know I certainly did the best I knew how. I taught them right from wrong and for the most part my kids were good kids. They tested their boundries, they got punished and things taken away for a period of time. There is no perfect child and there is no perfect parent. Just my opinion.

[FairyGodmother]

You could be the best parent in the world and children will still lie about stuff. I don't think it's means they were raised by bad parents. My parents did the best they could with me and I was a rascal growing up. I think a lot of it has to do with who the kids peers are at school as well. As parents we can't spend every waking second with our children so yeah, they learn a lot of their bad behaviors at school or in a social environment.

 

That is a very good point I had not thought of, thank you.

[Seraphim]

Public humiliation is ridiculous. Any parent who thinks it is a good idea had better ask themselves if they make a mistake at work if they want their employer to stand them on a chair in their panties in front of their co workers and see how it feels. Or better yet if you are a bad parent or bad spouse same thing let's stand you outside naked with a sign telling your sins. Then if you can stand that I guess you can do that to your kids.