Alternative Lifestyles - A Life Less Dependent on Money

[Silverbirch]

This is a subject that current man in my life and I are discussing and exploring more and more. A number of years ago, I completed a degree in Community Development, and along the way, met other students who were trying to incorporate this into their lives. I know there are people would immediately dismiss the idea as part of some type of left wing plot, but the way we see it, with the way our economy and widely accepted lifestyle practices are going, we are both seeing the need to be looking at our lives. I'm just wondering if other people here have thought about this and what changes you may have made or what you are considering.

 

Just offhand, what I can think of that has been a real wakeup call for me personally happened last year andd is in relation to my acceptance of the use use of telecommunications technology in my life. I require a telephone for my work and contact with my family and friends. I live outside of a city and my home is not within GPS satellite range. I do not have a landline telephone as I found this so expensive in the past. I had found it cheaper to have a mobile (cell) phone. Anyway, the recharger for my phone broke so I went to my phone company to buy a new one. They told me that they no longer made a recharger compatible for my phone, and that I would be required to get a new one. My contract had expired, and to do this, I would need to resign. They told me that even though there had been some changes in the company structure (a merge with Vodaphone) that service for me would be better and cheaper, and encouraged me to spend $20 a month extra to what I had been paying.

 

The long and short of it is that for the first time ever, I began receiving monthly bills of hundreds of dollars. I investigated the matter practically immediately. They insisted that I had been making an extraordinary number of calls. This continued to happen and eventually, I found out (not through the telephone company) that this was actually a scam which has become such a problem that there is existing government legislation which enabled me to be released from my contract. It was a terrible fight along the way though and I had to go to the government ombudsman as the phone company has tried to get every last cent out of me that they can. I also made another BIG mistake. I had always made my payments through direct debiting and the phone company withdrew $1700 from my account just before Xmas even though my account was in dispute and was supposedly being investigated. I could write pages and pages of the unfairness and inconveniences to me. I am now paying off a couple of hundred dollars of what they insist I owe in phone calls although they finally (after intervention from the ombudsman) agreed to stop pestering me for $1200 which they claim was the value of the phone (which I returned and which for a long time they insisted I hadn't, but I was able to provide proof of this. I am now on prepaid mobile phone which costs me less than $40 a month all up with Telstra. I should have just done this all along.

 

Last year, my housemate and I also got an extraordinary electricity bill which I know we could not possibly have used. My housemate changed electricity companies and our bill is currently less than a quarter of what it was. Fact is that my housemate and I both have paid jobs, and at this point in our lives, although it was a bit of a struggle, we were able to pay that bill. It makes me wonder though about unemployed and elderly people and how difficult they must find it. When I was bringing up my son on my own, I had one of those payment systems where I paid a nominated amount each fortnight. The thing is though that if they do make mistakes (which is something that often happens and you can't always prove it). the consumer is left having to foot the bill.

 

Current man in my life has a background in engineering and both of us are hoping that one day, in our lives, we can live without having organisations like electricity companies over our heads. I know he has some ideas about power generation which don't require one to be hooked up to "The Grid" and I've begun getting magazines which have stories on how other people have become self-sufficient in providing their own power to their homes.

 

Something I had heard about from other students, and which I now find has a base close to where I live is the LETS System which is a nono-monetary system which trades in services and which I am thinking about joining.

 

I would so like to be able to become at least partly self-sufficient in food production. This would take a fair amount of work in setting up though as where I live, we have serious fox and rabbit problems. I was more than self-sufficient with egg production until foxes took all of my poultry through the day by digging under fences.

 

There's so much to discuss on this subject and I'd love to read other people's ideas so if you would like to contribute, please do.

[pl3asehelp]

Unless you can do everything you need to do yourself you need to either buy it with money or live somewhere where you have skills you can barter with others who are willing to provide you those services in exchange for what you have to offer other than money. Sounds like a way to make your life extraordinarily difficult if you ask me. The concept of currency was created just to solve this problem and make our lives easier. You could just as easily get scammed in some other non-financial way so I hope you don't view this experience with your phone as something that was caused by the existence of currency.

[Silverbirch]

AHHHHHH NOOOOOOO. I obviously didn't express myself clearly enough but don't have all the time in the world to do so. If nobody gets what I'm saying, I'll give up the idea that they may. It's partly about the notion of dependence on large financial corporations to provide "essential" services and how the consumer can get the most for themselves out of existing systems. One example might be that I could make more use of communication systems such as Skype.

[Mercurial Girl]

I think the more self sufficient you can be the better. Sadly I've only gotten as far as growing my own herbs, tomatoes, lettuce. Whoopiedoo.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Mercurial Girl, thanks for your post and congratulations on your accomplishments to date.

 

When I was raising my son, I belonged to a "Food Co-operative" which was pretty good. Unfortunately, that one is no longer operating and there isn't one close to me. From what I can make out, most of the food co-ops in my state are run at university campuses. I know that there are initiatives in local government where I live where some people who produce their own vegetables meet regularly and exchange their produce. There is a renowned local market close to where I live which is open every Saturday. Unfortunately, at the present time, I have to attend my "paid job" so can't go to that market. From what I can make out though, it isn't as good as it used to be.

 

I live in a region which was famed for attracting artists, musicians, writers and people with alternative lifestyle ideas in years gone by. I'm not as connected to that as I would like to be. I do know that a lot of those people became commercially successful. We do have a store in a local village I am going to this morning where they have a store which specialises in alternative household items. I haven't been there for ages so will go back.

 

If I recall correctly, the people who I met who were involved in the LETS program spoke about the importance of "working and buying" locally to stimulate a local economy.

 

This would make a lot of sense for me for a number of reasons. Most notably though that fuel here sometimes costs $1.70 per litre. In my current job, I drive an hour each way every day. There is no public transport where I live.

[RedDress]

Hmmm... I have a couple of friends who think similarly... but I guess I just don't really get it, to be honest. Why would you go to all of the trouble of trying to generate your own power when there are already people who are out there who do it better? They do it better, they do it more efficiently, they are there to troubleshoot problems, etc. Specialization just makes sense to me. Why struggle to build a chair if someone else can do it better? Take your time to do the things YOU are good at and together - as a massive community - we can get things done.

 

There's a reason we are moving towards globalization. It's because it's efficient and it works. What you are speaking about is de-centralizing and going back to being self-sufficient... but... that life had a lot of problems too. That's why we don't live that way anymore.

 

Basically... that approach only works within the existence of the global approach. Otherwise, you'd have to go back to never eating pineapples (if you are not in a hot climate), not using the internet (and hence skype), making your own soap, etc.

 

I dunno. Picking and choosing doesn't make sense to me.

[greywolf]

Silverbirch, I understand what you mean. I think most people want independence, but it is hard because it is inconvenient. Have you considered solar energy?

[greywolf]

Moderator note: Please avoid turning this into a political debate.

[Silverbirch]

Yes Greywolf,

David and I have been talking abut various possibilities. His background is in engineering. Today I bought the Australian magazine for people who have been involved with such lifestyles, many for several decades. I has advertisements for various products and household appliances (egs stoves and fridges). A lot of those households are situated in regions where "going onto the grid (electrical connection) costs 10's of thousands of dollars so many people are opting to instead invest in setting themselves up to produce their own power.

 

The advice given by people who are producing their own power is to produce it in more than one way. For example, many of those people are using wind power, solar power and power produced by generators using LPG fuel. There are reasons I can't go into due to the risk the discussion would turn into a political debate, but what it means is that the cost of electricity will increase for many of us here by a further 25%.

 

With regard to food consumption, I am fortunate to live in a region which although it doesn't produce pineapples (I don't actually eat them), produces many other foods resulting in the development of celebrated local cuisine which has gained national attention. It also is a major source of revenue for the region - many international tourists come out here to visit the wineries and restuarants and appreciate the countryside - sometimes via hot air ballooning.

 

I didn't get time to go to that store today, but I did go to my dance class and spoke to someone I know who has lived in the region for decades and she knows a bit about the LETS group. In community development theoretical terms, my attendance at the local dance group enables me one opportunity to increase the likelihood of my own development of social capital and capacity building. Such groups are one way people can play their part in removing people from social isolation and build vibrant communities. After the bushfires in this region 3 years when several hundred people died, government and organisations supported pony clubs and getting them back and functioning because in this region and many others, coming together in such ways helps people come together and support each other in a variety of ways. There is generally higher employment rates in regions where social capital is high.

 

With regard to globalisation - I do recall an old motto (1990's) - Think Globally, Act Locally. Given time and opportunity, I could probably say things for and against globalisation, but that would be turning this into a political debate which was not my purpose. I simply asked if other people had ideas on becoming MORE self-sufficient. It's really only an idea for people who are willing and able to think outside the box, and that's okay by me.I'm not asking anyone to join me, just sharing positive ideas so no poo pooing please - not here anyway. Just start up your own threads for that. TA!

 

It's so wonderful here, I couldn't bear to leave. However, over the last few years, due to it's discovery by the mainstream, the realestate has skyrocketted. The property I live on but do not own has been valued at around $2million. To buy anything comparable at an affordable price, one needs to live much further from the cities which is something that eventually David and I will both do.

[Silverbirch]

Something else important I forgot to mention is that at least here, some energy companies have schemes for householder who produce their own energy whereby any extra energy they produce can be sold to those energy companies. Those companies recognise that in some instances, householders can produce power more efficiently than they can. That means that instead of a householder paying an electricity bill, they receive payment. I would so like to do that.

 

Here's a link to an Australian government site which basically outlines how, especially people who live in the country may be able to not only produce their own energy, but sell it to energy provider companies.

 

link removed

[Mercurial Girl]

Sounds like you're in a great region to become more self sufficient in quite a few ways. We have maybe 4 months of the whole year of warm weather and I love fresh produce too much to only get to enjoy it for so few months. I buy local meat and dairy throughout the year and produce when it's available, but if I went only local I'd be stuck eating just meat, canola, and wheat grains for most of the year. Yechhhh...

 

Pineapple is icky anyway

[Batya33]

For my family's sake I am so glad I don't have to spend the time it takes to make my own energy or grow my own food. I prefer to spend my time doing other things with my family, on my own, etc. I love that within one hour this morning I can do my power walk, then make a quick phone call from a number already stored on my cell phone and pick up sandwiches that will last us for 3-4 meals from a place that has fresh meats, cheeses and organic produce. I'd love to try gardening someday but not because it's essential to have tomatoes on my sandwich. I respect people who want to spend their time doing other things. Even though large corporations have people in them that do not always act in an ethical manner or worse I am sure if bartering became as widespread as doing business with big box stores, etc there would be plenty of individuals who would act in an unethical manner. I'm sure this already goes on plenty on websites like Ebay, etc.

[greywolf]

Something else important I forgot to mention is that at least here, some energy companies have schemes for householder who produce their own energy whereby any extra energy they produce can be sold to those energy companies. Those companies recognise that in some instances, householders can produce power more efficiently than they can. That means that instead of a householder paying an electricity bill, they receive payment. I would so like to do that.

 

Here's a link to an Australian government site which basically outlines how, especially people who live in the country may be able to not only produce their own energy, but sell it to energy provider companies.

 

link removed

 

We have that here too. Back when I worked in construction (2010. Not sure if they still have this program now), the State would actually give you money for setting up solar energy in your home. Then when you're not using the energy, it could be directed back to the electricity company, and they would use it, and pay for it, or deduct it from your bill for the electricity that you use at night.

 

I am like you in that I would like to be as self-sufficient as possible, partly because I think that I can do things better on my own than a company can. If I had my own garden, I would know exactly where those vegetables came from, that it'd be chemical free and not genetically modified, etc. But then the next issue is, will I ever actually have the time to do it? =/

[Saffron_]

I think it's a wonderful idea. One of my favourite programmes right now is 'Grand Designs' mainly because it's fascinating to see people designing and building increasingly more energy efficient homes. From using solar panels to building Scandinavian style homes that naturally keep in the heat to designing entire co-op style communities partially built by the prospective owners to save on the cost of buying, it's fascinating stuff. I recall a couple of people on the programme building homes that produced their own energy and more so the excess could be sold. I can't remember how (too complicated for me to understand). I've had a number of fights with my gas company, and won. I was being charged the average for a 3 bed family home even though I live in a tiny 1 bed flat, am rarely home and never put my heating on.

 

I see you live in Australia. Seems like a perfect part of the world to live the sort of lifestyle you're describing. Of course it can be done just about anywhere but location and finances hold most people back. I live in a tenement flat and can't afford to buy a house, or land so I'm stuck on the grid. We don't have a garden and the waiting list for allotments are years long. But if I could do something, I would. If you can afford it, go for it!

[Silverbirch]

Thanks everyone for your interesting posts since I last visited. Hi MC, I'd love to visit Canada, but don't know how I'd cope if I had to live in such a cold climate all the time. I find it cold enough here and apart from very freak snow every 50 years or so, doesn't snow where I live although there is snow within 1-2 hours away. With regard to growing in such a cold climate, have you ever looked at creating microclimates? You'd need to be growing things on window sills, maye some bathroomd or in terrariums I would think, and it wouldn't be possible in the REALLY cold months.

 

I've decided I'm going to get some vegies planted this week. I'm going to do a raised bed which I'll rabbit-proof. It's way too early to plant tomatoes, but when I do, this year, I'll have a go at sundrying them in the over. Have you tried that. I've grown parsley many times but haven't made my own pesto from it yet though I've made ?a=tabbouleh from my home-grown. It's the right time of year here to be planting potatoes and like last year, I'm going to go dig-free and plant them in old car tyres. In fact, I'm going ot use the chook house and try growing some things in pots. Well, I wouldn't be aiming to be fully self-sufficient, but spinach is so easy to grow and I like eating it. I'm veery interested in something which might interest you. It's called Permaculture and years ago, I saw an educational film by it's founder Bill Mollison, showing fruit and vegetables grown on a small apartment balcony. Permaculture is an interesting science which is prooving to be life-enhancing for many people, especially those in developing countries.

 

I've been sitting up in bed reading these books and magazines and they've given me a real yearning to be pursing that lifestyle. There's lots of fun things I'd like to try, not really related to self-sufficiency - for example, there are instructions and photos on making an outdoor wood-fired pizza oven. If done correctly, the pizzas should only take around 3mins to cook.

 

Bataya, gardening, especially growing food can be so therapeutic, energetic AND relaxing.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Greywolf, yes there are rebates here, but I'm sure at one time, within a period of time which has now passed, there were really excellent rebates and incentives to do so - as there have been for people to install rainwater and greywater tanks. We have had a lot of water restrictions here so a lot of people in suburban regions put them in for their gardens.

 

Yes, time is always a factor, but I'm vowing to myself to make more time this week. During times when I have done so, I've felt the psychological benefits too of getting out there and there are so many ideas I'm always meaning to try. You really don't need much land at all to grow vegetables when you look into it. Especially in permaculture, they have so many good ideas. My mother used to grow her own bean sprouts on the kitchen window sill - something I've meant to do for years and never gotten around to. There are also lots of things which can be grown in hanging baskets - I believe strawberries which look very nice and probably parsley. Did you know it is super-easy to grow potatoes in plastic rubbish bins or car tyres and there is no digging to harvest them. It's the most productive way to grow them - virtually no work. In fact, I think you can also grow them in the very durable large plastic bags.

 

I still haven't gotten around to making my own worm farm to harvest the fertiliser although I do have enough horse manure for an entire village. That was another thing I liked about the chooks and that we could get rid of our scraps and then be provided with fresh eggs. David has managed to keep some poultry as the foxes aren't so bad out his way. it would take so much work (and money) to fox proof at this property that I likely won't bother - unless the universe sends me a suitable fox-proof enclosure.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Saffron,

I don't know if I have seen that particular program but definitely ones very much like it, and I agree they are fascinating - for me anyway. I love seeing how people can get so clever and creative.

[Batya33]

Bataya, gardening, especially growing food can be so therapeutic, energetic AND relaxing.

 

Yes I know it can be -and someday I'd love to try that as a hobby if I ever live in a house (I never have). I find other activities far more therapeutic, energetic and relaxing. And one reason I am able to do what I do now -be a full time mom and be financially comfortable-is because I worked for large companies for many years and relied on large universities (I am sure funded in part by large companies) - in fact I received support from one large company to pursue one of my career-related dreams which was unrelated to the corporate world, and received support from at least two other large companies to pursue volunteer work for many years. So for me and for my family being part of this economy has mostly been a good experience overall. To each her own of course!

[Saffron_]

You really don't need much land at all to grow vegetables when you look into it. Especially in permaculture, they have so many good ideas. My mother used to grow her own bean sprouts on the kitchen window sill - something I've meant to do for years and never gotten around to. There are also lots of things which can be grown in hanging baskets - I believe strawberries which look very nice and probably parsley. Did you know it is super-easy to grow potatoes in plastic rubbish bins or car tyres and there is no digging to harvest them. It's the most productive way to grow them - virtually no work. In fact, I think you can also grow them in the very durable large plastic bags.

 

Silverbirch, I'm going to look into that! When I was growing up I remember my parents growing tomatoes, sweetcorn and potatoes in growbags. Everything tasted amazing. Completely different to shop bought. I don't have a garden but I do share a patio which gets some sun. Might be do-able.

[Batya33]

Yes, I love going to the local greenmarket! I think it's great that you want to try to be more if not totally self-sufficient, I simply wanted to point out that it can get a bit extreme to paint the corporate world as mostly or totally evil or out to scam people or to assume that people who choose to have a balance of self-sufficiency as well as working with, for, or relying on large companies for their daily needs are not living in a positive, productive way. There's room for all sorts of lifestyles and I like the idea of peaceful co-existence among all those choices.

[anya1607307555]

You really don't need much land at all to grow vegetables when you look into it. Especially in permaculture, they have so many good ideas. My mother used to grow her own bean sprouts on the kitchen window sill - something I've meant to do for years and never gotten around to. There are also lots of things which can be grown in hanging baskets - I believe strawberries which look very nice and probably parsley. Did you know it is super-easy to grow potatoes in plastic rubbish bins or car tyres and there is no digging to harvest them. It's the most productive way to grow them - virtually no work. In fact, I think you can also grow them in the very durable large plastic bags.

 

My sister grows potatoes in an old belfast sink and a large plastic tub. If you have a greenhouse or other suitable fixture, you can grow some vegetables upside down. Tomatoes, cucumbers and chilli peppers work well like that.

[Mercurial Girl]

My sister grows potatoes in an old belfast sink and a large plastic tub. If you have a greenhouse or other suitable fixture, you can grow some vegetables upside down. Tomatoes, cucumbers and chilli peppers work well like that.

 

I would need to grow indoors with grow lights for anything to be worth the effort haha. I'd get tomatoes for a week up here and on my north facing balcony.

[Silverbirch]

So many interesting ideas here! I've never heard of growing plants upside down. Please tell me more about it. I haven't heard of these types of "bags" either and would like to know more about them.

 

Saffron and Mecurial Girl, something which might interest you both which I forgot about was that when I would start seedlings off in the past, I would get plastic soft drink bottles and cut the bottoms off them with an art knife, then place the bottomless bottle over the seedling, pressing it firmly into the soil (you take the lid off it too). It makes an amazing difference with plant growth (creating a hothouse microclimate and keeps snails and other pests away). You can also make these miniature hothouses from glass bottles - especially large glass wine flaggons are meant to be good, but you need a glass cutter and so I never bothered with that.

 

Just a brief post this morning. I have the day off and one of my plans is to go get some seedlings and plant them today. I think atm, with the colder weather having come on, it's time to plant potatoes, spinach and beans. Will give an update later and hope you can answer my questions about the bags and planting upside down. Thanks.

[Silverbirch]

yesterday I managed to buy rainbow silverbeet and parsley seedlings and they had a lot of kis which make it very easy for people who have never grown before. I bought a kit for Australian garlic and plan on going back some time to get a mushroom kit and also a bean sprouter, maybe a basil kit as to date I have never been successful growing basil.

 

Bataya, good to hear you have had so many positive experiences.

[pl3asehelp]

Why get seedlings and rely on the nursery to germinate the seed? It's expensive and it's something you can certainly do yourself if you don't like being reliant on others. My wife and I garden extensively to feed our family, have chickens, etc and we never buy seedlings. Also, often seedlings are of genetics that were actually developed by a large corporation like Monsanto and they're sterile and will not even reproduce, or if they do, you're supposed to send Monsanto a check. I recommend planting Kale - delicious raw or cooked, SUPER good for you and really easy to grow all year long, at least where I live in a zone 9 climate. If you get red russian you can grow it in hot areas or even in snow.