Is being a virgin a dealbreaker?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I don't "get" now the non-virgins exude this air of superiority... They're not really any better...

So they had sex. Big deal.

Doesn't necessarily make them "better."

In many cases, "newness" is preferable, like virgin wool, virgin forest...

 

Virgin cotton, Virgin Records, Virgin Islands, Extra virgin olive oil, State of Virginia.......

[JewelCat]

Virgins aren't undesirable, it's the mentality that of 'they're pure and better people bc they are one' that gets me alittle annoyed.

Alot of you are comparing virgins to 'people who sleep around' or ask if sb would prefer 'sb with morals and makes good decisions vs sb that doesn't' that is offending.

 

Doesn't that suggest a very subjective POV?

 

Aside from CR's post, I don't remember anybody saying virgin's are better, nor did I see anybody say non virgins are people who sleep around. I skimmed though parts of this thread, so if I missed that particular post, please let me know.

 

Also, I think the vast majority of threads from older virgins don't proclaim themselves to be pure and better than everyone else. They want to have sex, and they want to have relationships, but once the virginity topic comes up, too often its assumed that they have something wrong with them or they're religious or something. The concept of, "It just hasn't happened yet," doesn't seem to compute.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Not having any experience in any one particular aspect that I consider important in my relationships (be it communication, relationship experience, career, sex etc) would seem unsuitable to me, simply because in all likelihood at this age in someone's life there is usually more to it than simply 'I never had the opportunity'.

 

Don't confuse "experience" in these aspects with "application of the knowledge". You can have "experience" without having learned anything from it and how to apply it. You can have no hands on experience and yet be more of a natural than anyone with tons of experience. Remember that just like not all university educated people have any kind of smarts outside of their area of expertise, not all people with relationship experience are smart about relationships. Someone with no university education can be smarter than someone with...and someone with no relationship experience can have a better understanding of how to make a relationship work than someone who has been through several failed relationships and keeps repeating the same mistakes. Experience and knowledge/superior understanding don't necessarily go hand in hand.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Aside from CR's post, I don't remember anybody saying virgin's are better, nor did I see anybody say non virgins are people who sleep around..

Didn't state they were inherently better, just preferable, in many cases.

To counterbalance the non-virgin diatribe.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin at any age.

So..... bec. I had sex too early @17-18, that somehow makes me BETTER than a 26-30 y.o. who hasn't?

 

Me having the "I'VE HAD SEX" membership card makes me a better dating prospect?

 

13 y.o.s now have sex. So they're better than someone at 26 who hasn't given themselves to someone else yet?

 

There are many misconceptions out there.

 

Virgins aren't necessarily "better" than non-virgins.

Non-virgins aren't AUTOMATICALLY superior to the virgins.

 

Those who wait until marriage or engagement before engaging in intimate acts, for moral, religious or practical reasons, I truly respect those. And wish I had waited.

Getting involved with sex @17 is one of my biggest regrets...

 

It's all a matter of opportunities and life choices .... and the kind of person one

[Lonewing]

Don't confuse "experience" in these aspects with "application of the knowledge". You can have "experience" without having learned anything from it and how to apply it. You can have no hands on experience and yet be more of a natural than anyone with tons of experience. Remember that just like not all university educated people have any kind of smarts outside of their area of expertise, not all people with relationship experience are smart about relationships. Someone with no university education can be smarter than someone with...and someone with no relationship experience can have a better understanding of how to make a relationship work than someone who has been through several failed relationships and keeps repeating the same mistakes. Experience and knowledge/superior understanding don't necessarily go hand in hand.

 

There are always exceptions to every rule, but for every exception, expect the rule to still be most prevelant.

 

The best predicator for future behavior is past behavior. A virgin has No past behavior.

 

The expected predicated future is that they will wish to remain a virgin; the virgin's future behavior after having sex is by and large unknown, even to the virgin. It's this latter uncertainty that is the deal breaker.

[penelope13]

Don't confuse "experience" in these aspects with "application of the knowledge". You can have "experience" without having learned anything from it and how to apply it. You can have no hands on experience and yet be more of a natural than anyone with tons of experience. Remember that just like not all university educated people have any kind of smarts outside of their area of expertise, not all people with relationship experience are smart about relationships. Someone with no university education can be smarter than someone with...and someone with no relationship experience can have a better understanding of how to make a relationship work than someone who has been through several failed relationships and keeps repeating the same mistakes. Experience and knowledge/superior understanding don't necessarily go hand in hand.

 

I never said anything about 'superior understanding', that is your personal interpretation.

 

I only stated my personal preferences and didn't tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't prefer in their own lives.

 

While I agree that there are always exceptions to any rules, majorities - there is also a reason why there are general 'predictions', statistical majorities. Of course there are plenty of people without a university degree that are highly intelligent as well as people with a degree which don't seem to be the brightest of the bunch. However, the existence of those exceptions doesn't eliminate the value of a degree in general.

 

When I was talking about experience, I didn't mean to imply that as being 'better in those aspects necessarily', however meaning 'having experienced, i.e. lived through those situations. they may have been bad experience, or good experience, or any degree in between. However having 'lived through those situations' adds something (IMHO) to an individuals continuously changing make up in a significantly different way than choosing not to experience this aspect of life at all. It doesn't make one type of person better than the other, but it increases the chances that they are more or less compatible with myself. It won't tell me anything about their 'technical skill level', but it tells me something about their personality if they chose to invest into those aspects of life or not.

 

I prefer someone with similar career ambitions, I prefer someone with similar cultural background. Doesn't make my preferences better or worse or less or more right. In the same way I simply prefer someone who has some level of sexual past - or as I stated early on, a reason that makes sense to me why they chose not to have a sexual past.

 

The "I simply didn't have the opportunity" reason is one I would truly struggle with most, since I'm the kind of person that goes after the things that I want to achieve, no matter how challenging it may be, no matter if I would have to move somewhere, no matter if that means undergoing personal growth or overcoming fears etc. I believe in creating opportunities for yourself for the things you want. Thus I prefer partners with similar mind sets.

 

I'm just being honest here since I hope to help OP (and similar members on the forum) to understand why other people may have trouble with understanding where one is coming from if you have never had a sexual encounter by your mid 30s. The concern for most people (as I gather) is not the (or lack of) technical skill set, but the mind set that made someone chose not to have sex.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

There are always exceptions to every rule, but for every exception, expect the rule to still be most prevelant.

 

The best predicator for future behavior is past behavior. A virgin has No past behavior.

 

The expected predicated future is that they will wish to remain a virgin; the virgin's future behavior after having sex is by and large unknown, even to the virgin. It's this latter uncertainty that is the deal breaker.

 

This is very black and white thinking and stereotyping. Lots of people have been shocked when their partner is no longer interested in sex after they were going at it like rabbits during the first few months of the relationship...and the person who no longer had interest in sex is someone who has had his/her fair share of relationships and sex partners. So anybody's future behaviour is largely unknown. Someone who has never cheated may end up cheating. Someone who has cheated may never cheat again. Someone who has a good work ethic, may down the road become a lazy good for nothing. In life people do about-faces and totally change their behaviour...sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

[Lonewing]

From my experience, such about-faces are rarely abupt and are quite often percipitated by underlying factors. Even these breakups where we say "it came out of the blue" are events that the dumper has been building up to for weeks or months before it actually happens.

 

From my studies, sex in health relationships does not "peeter out" over time - it's one of the great myths, and it should not be surprising to see that the people who believe this are widely single or at least once divorced. Sex is a relationship barometer...

 

Obviously Yes, just because someone has had sex does not mean they are good long term potential; they may be GREAT short term flings but little more, and this is not something any person can ever hope to change: their personality type gets bored with relationships. Or they're polygamous. Or they live by their own edict, the rest of the world be damned. I've well learned, there are indeed these people who go from relationship to relationship, each one lasting roughly the same length of time, never seeming to settle with one partner. And these people are easy to rule out; a serial relationist is very higher on my list of "dealbreakers," far higher than virgins and right near the category reserved for drug users [present and in most cases, past], convicted felons, fanatics, evangelists, drunks, the financially irresponsble, and so forth. I DO NOT expect a relationship with a serial relationist to have serious long term potential - I learned this one by experience!

 

The older I get, the more of these unsuitable people I expect to find in the dating pool. Why? Those who are good candidates for a long term marriage, relationship, etc, get married, while those who are not remain in the dating pool. The virginity itself is only the tip of the iceburg...there's everything else that goes with it that has to be contended with.

 

I would expect an older virgin to follow a similar path after losing their virginity as a younger person would, and it seems to me that the most common path is people do not stay with the person to whom they lose their viginity. Having sex for the first time and the relationship that follows is a lifetime exprience, hence, I'd assume a virign still has roughly 2-5 years of maturity and growth to experience after losing their virginity before they have a clear picture of what THEY want out of life. For each one of these unsuccessful relationships, I am looking at losing between 2.5 and 5.5 years of my life in my search for a suitable mate.

 

In the time that I am with this one person, I could be dating any number of women who are already past this milestone in their life. If we were to assume an average of three dates per woman and one week per date [we'll assume most of these relationships would be only one date, while a few may last two-three months] then in the time I am with this one virgin I could have met anywhere upwards of 43 [2.5 years] to 95 [5.5 years] other women who already know how they perform in full blown relationship and know precisely what they want. In all likeliness, most of these women will be unsuitable, but it is Far more likely I'll find who I am looking for out of 43 or 95 than I will looking at just 1.

 

It all really comes down to the issue of uncertainty. One cannot make an educated decision without reliable information, and in this event, there's no information whatsoever - for either the person who is not a virgin or the person who is a virgin. The time that will be spent developing this information, quite frankly, is something most of us do not wish to live through a second, or third, or fourth time. We've already Been There, Done That...

 

So there's a very full explination of why I'd really highly prefer to avoid a virgin. It's not as detrimental or as sudden-death as other issues, but I fail to see anything Positive by it.

[ThePinkAngel]

In most countries in the west being a virgin is a shame and most guys might think it's a deal breaker. In most parts of asia, men will race or compete to be the first one to have sex to a virgin woman.

[ClarenceRutherford]

In most countries in the west being a virgin is a shame and most guys might think it's a deal breaker. In most parts of asia, men will race or compete to be the first one to have sex to a virgin woman.

Methinks that's a very odd and regretful view.

 

Many don't consider it a dealbreaker at all.

 

Not being "experienced" has its advantage, such as less baggage, as Dogs and Sara pointed out.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I am not quite sure how to respond to this kind of logic. Love and relationships is not a numbers game..plenty of people marry the only person they ever had sex with and are so in love with this person their whole life that sampling others is not a priority. Plenty of experienced people marry and still feel the need to sample others. Maturity has nothing to do with sexual experience, it has to do with a person's character. Relationship maturity also has to do with a person's character, not their experience. It is sad to see this warped mindset that places a high premium on sexual experience and so little value on life experience. A 23 year old who has had 3 partners may still be sorely lacking in maturity and responsibility and relationship know-how than a 30 year old virgin who has seen much more of the world and experienced a lot more in life. Does it matter that the 23 year old has done every position in the kama sutra and is therefore a sexpert...what else does this 23 year old have to offer to a partner..the fact that he/she knows how to go on a date and how to initiate holding hands at the movies...the fact that he knows the opportune time to move in for the kiss and make out session...the fact that he/she is very adept at pulling a condom out of a package and putting it while still giving horny eyes at their partner...yep...I can see how very important those "life skills" are and how they really help in making someone an A+ person as opposed to the fumbling 30 year old virgin who is not as adept, a bit nervous and shy but sure knows a lot about the world and realizes that a day has 24 hours and most of it is not happening between the sheets. If a person is a virgin at 30, chances are they are not going to suddenly go wild and crazy the minute they lose it and start seeking out tons of other people to have it with. A person who is 30 is probably looking for a more solid relatinship rather than the cheap thrills and "you are good enough for now" relationships of those in their twenties. People in their twenties have the mindset of sowing wild oats...a virgin in their thirties is more likely to be more serious-minded and not into the whole sowing wild oats business.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Well-stated, Dogs.

 

I would accept a virgin no questions asked.

Now.. if the girl was in her 30s and had never dated nor had relationships, I'd certainly inquire why.... but just bec. they're a virgin doesn't reflect anything "negative" on their personality.

 

Ted Danson's character on the CSI TV show recently confided to the VERY sexually "experienced" Katherine Willows -- who jumped into bed with like the first guy she dated @16 -- a bad boy mobster-type -- that he and his wife gave each other their virginities.

"Yes, life can sometimes be that simple," Danson's character said.

 

That left Willows' character speechless, as she's never ever known anyone who was sexually responsible and acted like giving her vagina to any guy that asks is the "normal" thing do do.... not unlike some posters here...

 

 

Here is why sexual experience isn't such a big deal.

 

Sexual experience is merely one part of someone's life, and usually, not the best part.

 

No one ever says in funeral eulogies that this man/woman "was so good at sex and knew everything about it..."

People aren't praised for their sexual proclivities...

 

 

Later marriages often prove stronger.

Not dropping one's pants for everyone they date demonstrates some maturity and responsibility.

Methinks that galls some.

[ThePinkAngel]

Methinks that's a very odd and regretful view.

 

Many don't consider it a dealbreaker at all.

 

Not being "experienced" has its advantage, such as less baggage, as Dogs and Sara pointed out.

 

I have many friends from different cultures and backgrounds and I've lived and visited some countries and asia and that is what I observed. Not really a fact.

[ClarenceRutherford]

I have many friends from different cultures and backgrounds and I've lived and visited some countries and asia and that is what I observed. Not really a fact.

 

Didn't say it wasn't factual.. but said it was regretful.

Big difference there, huh?

 

Regretful in the wake of heartbreak it leaves, STDs, unplanned pregnancies, religious guilt, the effect early sex has on one's life, the disappointment....

[ClarenceRutherford]

Originally Posted by ClarenceRutherford

Johnny,

That shouldn't really be a problem.

Just bec. a person is of a particular faith, that doesn't mean someone couldn't date and marry them.

 

There are couples who date where one's religion isn't a dealbreaker.

Just as long as one isn't claiming the other is going to "go to hell."

Conversely, the atheist shouldn't belittle the other for the other's religious views.

 

There's a poster here, an agnostic, whose dating a Christian woman.

He's not anti-Christian and doesn't attack her belief, and vice-versa with her toward him.

So it can work.

 

At your age, you don't need to be so restrictive on women you could date.

 

I'm not being anti-anything, but i'm not gonna be into someone who puts a religious value on losing their virginity.

 

Sorry, but I don't care for the saving it for marriage stuff.

Dated a 28-29 y.o. virgin once. She was agnostic.

 

Yes, I tried to "change" her stance but no go...

 

So there are people out their with morals who have reasons for remaining sexually responsible.

 

 

I'm not being anti-anything, but i'm not gonna be into someone who puts a religious value on losing their virginity.

 

Sorry, but I don't care for the saving it for marriage stuff.

Was only saying at your age, it's not wise to screen-out people merely bec. of their religious views.

They could after all screen YOU out bec. of your shyness and never having a GF into your late 20s...

[ThePinkAngel]

Didn't say it wasn't factual.. but said it was regretful.

Big difference there, huh?

 

Regretful in the wake of heartbreak it leaves, STDs, unplanned pregnancies, religious guilt, the effect early sex has on one's life, the disappointment....

 

i kinda out of my mind atm. I misread the regretful part. Guess that's what you get when you work and writing in forums at the same time. But I agree.

[jonny15]

In most countries in the west being a virgin is a shame and most guys might think it's a deal breaker. In most parts of asia, men will race or compete to be the first one to have sex to a virgin woman.

 

Yes, but aren't alot of men over there for old school in their mentality of women at times?

 

You know, wanting them in the kitchen, being barefoot and pregnant?

 

To me, virginity with a woman shouldn't be a big thing, unless she is for reason you don't agree with, I.E religion, or saving it for marriage.

 

I'd take it most ways, but I dunno if i'd want to wait for marriage, because that person could end up hating sex.

[jonny15]

Dated a 28-29 y.o. virgin once. She was agnostic.

 

Yes, I tried to "change" her stance but no go...

 

So there are people out their with morals who have reasons for remaining sexually responsible.

 

What is deemed moral is subjective.

 

Someone who saves it is no more moral than someone who has 30 partners.

 

Was only saying at your age, it's not wise to screen-out people merely bec. of their religious views.

They could after all screen YOU out bec. of your shyness and never having a GF into your late 20s...

 

No, really? Screening me out for being shy? I'm....like...so....shocked.

 

I don't want a chick like that because she would probably also have problems with alot of other stuff about me. I do not want someone who puts that much value on it.

 

It's funny that people tell us virgins to stop putting some much importance on losing our virginity. But at the same time, they praise others for putting importance on staying a virgin.

[Wayfara]

I would expect an older virgin to follow a similar path after losing their virginity as a younger person would, and it seems to me that the most common path is people do not stay with the person to whom they lose their viginity.

 

The average age to lose it is around 16, 17 so I do think age is a factor, a big one. Most of my non-virgin friends didn't have long-lasting relationship that age either. I'm sure there are many incidents where an older virgin didn't stay with their first too but most relationships end these days, not just the relationships of virgins. I haven't really noticed older virgins breaking up more often than the non-virgins.

 

Having sex for the first time and the relationship that follows is a lifetime exprience, hence, I'd assume a virign still has roughly 2-5 years of maturity and growth to experience after losing their virginity before they have a clear picture of what THEY want out of life.

 

You prefer women who have lost their v-card at least five years ahead then?

 

I can see it maybe taking a few years before you know what you like sexually but I don't really see how the act of sex would give you a clearer picture of you want out of life in general, it didn't for me at least. Anyway I do understand preferring sexual experience, we all have our preferences, I just don't believe that sexual experience makes you more mature and better at having relationships.

[piruru]

Is being a virgin a dealbreaker?

 

Personally, and I speak for myself only in this instance, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker but I would have to seriously wonder why this guy hasn't done it yet and presumably why he hasn't been in a relationship yet either. Has he been too focused on studying the entire time? Or has he has been waiting for the right person to come along? Or does he have underlying insecurities/issues causing him to be unable to connect with another person in that way?

 

In my experience so far I've found that people that haven't been in relationships or lost their virginity at an older age tend to have underlying issues which may be dealbreakers, but the virginity is not the issue itself. For example, some virgins are have become very self-centred/self-involved, have unrealistic expectations and are intolerant of others due to years spent alone. In this case, being a virgin might have contributed to those characteristics. There is no guarantee that these behaviours might change after getting involved with someone so for a lot of people, they just find it too hard and move on.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I know quite a few very self-involved, selfish, self-centred, having unrealistic expectations, intolerant of others, of both genders who have had no shortage of relationships and are even married with children. Again more black and white thinking about virgins and people who have spent years alone which may be true for some but is certainly not necessarily the norm. Some of the most messed up people I know are in relationships and making their partner's life hell. Just look on this forum of all the messed up relationships and most people on here and their partner have had several relationships. Depression, bipolar, narcissism, borderline personality disorder, cheating, inconsiderate behaviour towards the partner, selfishness, grass is greener, insecurity, control, manipulation and the list goes on....these are not virgins...these are not men and women who are inexperienced in relationships...and yet they have major major relationship-damaging issues. I would wonder about the damaging issues ANYONE has that can prevent them from having a happy relationship.

[ClarenceRutherford]

i kinda out of my mind atm. I misread the regretful part. Guess that's what you get when you work and writing in forums at the same time. But I agree.

That's fine. Was kind a snippy in my response.

My posts aren't always great either and I didn't mean to imply virgins are somehow "superior" to non-virgins.

 

Am not naive and know more people are having sex than aren't. Virgins are clearly in the minority.

 

For the record, I didn't marry a virgin.

That may seem shocking considering how much I post on virginity.

 

But like I told yeawhutever, someone's sexual experience isn't the key thing for me.

If one woman I date is a virgin and another's not, but has limited experience, being a virgin didn't automatically make me favor the virgin. I wouldn't know that little piece of info. early in the dating anyway.

 

My future wife didn't have a lot of experience and that was the kind of women I personally preferred.

She had 1 partner before me, a former fiance she had a lot of sex with.

That didn't "bother" me. Just as long as she wasn't promiscuous and didn't have lots of sex with lots of guys...

 

Other factors come into a relationship rather than one's experience.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Originally Posted by ClarenceRutherford

Dated a 28-29 y.o. virgin once. She was agnostic.

 

Yes, I tried to "change" her stance but no go...

 

So there are people out their with morals who have reasons for remaining sexually responsible.

 

 

What is deemed moral is subjective.

 

Someone who saves it is no more moral than someone who has 30 partners.

Uhhh... gotta disagree.

Morality isn't entirely subjective.

 

Someone having 30 partners by 25.... that's a bit too much IMO.

What's that? 3 partrners a year 16-25?

Not my thing.

 

30 partners by 50 wouldn't be so great either, as 1 partner a year.....

 

There is such a thing as sexual responsibility and just bec. someone's a virgin doesn't make them "more moral" than others.

Am not naive here.

[jonny15]

Uhhh... gotta disagree.

Morality isn't entirely subjective.

 

Someone having 30 partners by 25.... that's a bit too much IMO.

What's that? 3 partrners a year 16-25?

Not my thing.

 

30 partners by 50 wouldn't be so great either, as 1 partner a year.....

 

There is such a thing as sexual responsibility and just bec. someone's a virgin doesn't make them "more moral" than others.

Am not naive here.

 

3 partners a year doesn't seem like much at all for someone who's sexually active and maybe even attractive.

 

For me it's alot, but for someone having sex, that isn't impossible. Espically if it's a guy.

 

and morality is subjective, depending on what the person considers moral.

[ClarenceRutherford]

 

and morality is subjective, depending on what the person considers moral.

 

If morality was all subjective, than anything goes, right?

Someone who thinks cheating is "moral" is moral, then, right?

 

Or polygamy or a superior having sex with an underling...

 

One definition:

Morality or doing what's right is what you do when no one's lookin'.