Calling a females!!! I need some advice badly!!

[pbsurf]

You are doing all that you can right now.

 

Its hard, I remember being very confused moment to moment about how to act, and in the end, my moving out was really a relief - for both of us - but in a way that didn't help.

 

I do believe that you can save the marriage though. I hope that the counseling session goes well. The fact that she agreed is very good. Just let her talk - maybe you will find things out that will surprise you, in a good way.

 

Stay strong.

 

Paul

[byante]

Should I force a decision from her after counseling or just plan on going to the next session. The hardest thing is the not knowing. Not knowing whether we are going to work on it or are we gonna get divorced.

[Lester]

No, Don't force anything! All you need to know is what you are doing. Trust me..she's all screwed up and doesn't know what she wants. Don't have her go to counseling or anything for that matter. It might be the last nail.

 

Answer this... do you want to be married to her or not?

[byante]

I do very much so, but I am starting to wonder if it is worth it, because she seems so far gone.

[Lester]

It is worth it. If you have offended and I assume you did it will take years to undo. But you can! I did... and it was worth it!

[pbsurf]

I agree with not "forcing" any answer. Do not confront her about it or anything else for that matter. Let her decide, and let her come to you to talk if and when she is ready.

 

Only you can decide whether it is worth it. I don't think that counseling will necessarily hurt - esp if you just let her talk. Even if she says things that sound accusatory to you, just let her vent. I have heard of situations where counselors do side with one or the other however, so be aware of that if it seems to be happening.

[Lester]

Dear Byante,

 

I have only one goal in this forum. To save marriages.

 

Someone helped me, now I want to help. It was much easier then I thought. It was much easier than all the books and counselors had led me to believe.

 

There are no guarantees. I’m going on my third year of empting her glass. Very hard… but I still have my family.

 

Relax, you can do this if you want.

 

Be forewarned... It's not intuitive. Read my other post today. Buy time!

[lostandhurt]

I was hoping she wasn't a Walk Away Wife but if she is willing to leave her children and only visit them then she has almost all the symptoms. I am sorry this is not going to be easy on you or the children.

 

She has erected a wall so strong nothing you say will get through, nothing you do will get noticed except if she can turn it into a negative to reinforce her choice. The reason she gets mad and throws things back in your face is because you are reminding her of what she has done and is doing to you and your children.

Your wife is not the person you once knew and after the bomb is dropped it crystalizes the change for a very long time. If she is willing to admit that she is "talking to another man" then she has done much worse than that. She is chasing a fantasy and you simply cannot compete with it.

There is a good chance her hormone levels are all out or wack or she has a chemical imbalance but you will not be able to convince her to see a doctor to check them. This is your fault in her mind, she is unhappy and if she gets rid of you she will then be happy again. Of course it won't work but she believes it will.

 

What to do? My first advice is to visit this thread:

It is really long so read through parts of it when you get a chance. There are many there like you. I was and am one but I am on the other side of most of the dysfunction. it was started by John Bendix and it has allowed us to come together to support each other and keep us sane while dealing with the W.A.S. It is called WAS because it isn't unique to women although it seems they walk at a higher rate than men. Post there to get some great support and help on your next steps.

The children are your biggest concern right now. Start taking over almost all the tasks you can before she moves out. This will help you get into the swing of things and make the kids feel secure that you are there for them. My ex has done some seriously shady things in regards to my son and there was a time when many thought her the best mother ever. SHE IS NOT THE SAME PERSON so please accept that she is not going to snap out of this okay?

 

Acceptance is your friend. You cannot control things other than you, how you act, react and think. Focus on your children for she is gone. The counseling is to make this look better, nothing more I am afraid.

 

At this point you could not convince her that water is wet at gun point so give up on any ideas or reason, logic or doing the right thing. She will see you as controlling if you do.

 

There are many stories on the thread so give it a read and learn.

 

Lost

[pbsurf]

last two posts are very important and I would try not to get confused by thoughts of "winning her back" or "dating" or whatever else seems to be a good strategy. You will get lots of conflicting advice but advice from men who have been where you are is probably all you should listen to for now.

 

LAH is right about the spouses not being the same person - I have heard the analogy of a head injury, your spouse has had a brick dropped on her head and now is literally a different person than she was before...

 

I think that what hasn't been pointed out yet, and might help - (love to get some others thoughts on this) is the very positive things that can come out of all of this pain. I truly believe that things like this make us who we are in life - for better or worse - it is really up to you. And it can make you a much better person, a much better father, and hopefully a much better husband. You probably have not been happy in the last few years either, and I'm sure your older child can sense that his parents have not been happy... So the status quo - a loveless marriage - could have led to very resentful, spiteful adults raising two eventually troubled childrend. At least now the issues are out in the open and you have a chance to change this outcome.

 

This is your chance to take control of your life and be the BEST person you were meant to be. Sounds trite, but I want you to know that this is not just misery and sadness, it truly is a test that you are being asked to take. Try and stay positive, focus on your children and the love that both of you have for them, and just work every day in small ways towards keeping your family together.

[turnera]

1) Assuming that there is another person might be logical but it is not helpful right now. If there is, OP can do NOTHING about it just yet. Snooping (been there) is an extremely touchy and difficult activity emotionally, and honestly, takes the focus off of the ONLY solution available - which is a behavior change of the OP that will allow the spouse to decide whether or not she wants back in the marriage.

On the contrary, finding proof of cheating, confronting the cheating spouse, and - if she refuses to quit seeing OM - telling the important people in her life that you are fighting to save your marriage and would like their help dealing with her about this can be VERY effective in ending the affair. As has been said, there is NO point just trying to win her back, when someone else is doing the same thing.

[turnera]

These are all the exact things that cheating spouses say. There IS a script, and they almost ALL say and do the exact same things as you are describing.

 

If you don't get proof, you will end up divorced.

[turnera]

Post your story at link removed. You'll get a lot of good advice from a lot of people who've been in your shoes.

[Lester]

Dear Byante and others.

It is a lot... your head is swirling. Your only hope now is to simplify. Once out of the eye of the storm you'll be able to make good decisions.

 

Simplify:

 

Married yes or no. You can’t go back after you decide!!

If yes… then all is fair in love and war!!

 

Do anything to buy time… lie to her, be secretive, use the kids, get sick. Anything

 

Secretly learn how you offended and drove away your loving wife.

 

Be confident but loving. Kiss her on the cheek tonight lovingly. (Blow her mind)

 

Listen but don’t talk.

[byante]

How do I let her just keep this going, or she can't make up her mind she needs to leave

[Lester]

Byante, It's not about her.

[Lester]

Dear Byante,

 

I have to go home. You can do this if you want.

 

Again, make no mistake. You are at war. Do you want to win? Change

 

No more predictability.

 

I went to the devil and wrested my life away from him.

 

I lied. I spied. I read. I talked. I changed everything about me. My wife had no idea, still doesn't. No forums, books or talk of my journey at home. Just quiet confidence.

Best to you. Talk to you tomorrow. Buy Gary Smalley's "If Only he knew tonight" (If Only, If Only, If Only... that's our problem.) les

[byante]

Well we have counseling, and she has avoided me all night? Is that a bad sign?

[Lonewing]

If it does head towards the end, you make sure you keep those things most important to you close - your kids.

[ElizabethB]

Did you just described me? I know how your wife feels....

How old were you when you got married? My husband did/does same things to me. He loves to criticize me, telling me how to do things in the kitchen!!!, everywhere. He does not mind to tell it front of everybody. He does not support me when I need it most and puts me down when I don't expect it...

Little by little, after 9 years together, I can tell that I am not the same person anymore. I do love him but I am not in love with him and we don not have any kids to keep us together.

I do visit the therapist and she said I was too young when I got married. I feel bad to hurt his feelings but if he would say he is ok with divorce, I would leave right away. I don't know your wife, you- but feelings towards my husband are not coming back. And I don't know if they ever will. But your case might by different. Good luck, don't give it up...

[Lonewing]

Elizabeth, I suggested two books to earlier on to byante and I suggest them every bit as much to you. As long as your husband is the way he is, your feelings will not return. Of course, if you never communciate with him about these issues, he will never do anything to change the course he is on either.

 

If you wish to salvage your marriage, your therapist is not one I would continue visiting. She's part of the Pro-divorce crowd, and many therapists and marriage counselors are indeed pro-divorce. They'll offer up the quick fix and then help you get to the point where you "escape" your problems as a method of solving your problems. I'm not sure if this is very productive in the long term, though - it sounds like learning a bad habit to me.

 

You were not to young then, and you are not too old now. What you are now, is recieiving negative counsel, and it is helping erode what faith you have left in your relationship! If you want to salvage this, find someone who supports you relaitonship first - they will have the tools to help you put your husband back on the narrow road of your heart!

 

If he never knows, he'll never change. He may be the active supporter of this behavior, but you have been giving a passive endorsement. You'll have to find tactful ways with which to tell him so that he will rethink his behavior without getting defensive, but if he truly loves you, I'm more then certain he'll do it. A GOOD therapist will help you develop these tools - and you'll be much stronger as a person for having done it!

[ElizabethB]

Lonewing, I know you mean it well but...My therapist said she will never tell me to get or not to get divorce.

I met my husband when I was 17, he was my first and only. I am 29 now and confused like never in my life. I am tired of no respect, no support, verbal and sometimes physical abuse. He made me feel like a trash so many times. It is hard to explain in few sentences. When I met him, I wanted to spend my life with him, I wanted to grow old hand in hand with my husband. What I want now is a mystery...He has great personality but we have to live with our characters and that is something completely different, is not it?...

[Lonewing]

Character is ALWAYS in flux.

 

It does sadden me to hear of how he has treated you. This is not the man you dreamed about growing old with when you were 17.

 

The thing is...does he know how his treatment of you has made you feel? And has there been things you've done towards him to spurn further bad behavior? Because I do recognize that in any relationship, it is not eitherly onesided - it's two people together.

 

If his character refuses to make positive growth, then yes, I agree with your therapist in this regard.

 

If he still has a great personality, though, I see no reason to fight for somethign better than what you have right now. You have nothing to lose, I suppose, other than your marriage and your life. Do be careful with the latter - if things get ugly, get out!! The former, though - well, it's entirely up to you.

[Real Deal]

She is a WAW, period. Let me guess, her "friend" works with her too? She IS having and affair, even if just emotional one at this point. My ex did the same thing but she did want to keep the kids. The best thing you can do is get a lawyer and start pushing for the divorce. Protect your interests and more importantly those of your children. Do not be mean or angry with her but in some capacity you need to shut her out so she sees some consquence to her choice. Tough love (not mean love) is the only thing I have seen in these cases that works for the long term. I am really sorry my friend. Reading this brings back man memories for me from several years ago. I know the pain is intense but stay stong for your children and be a man and you will prevail better in the long run. This is not over by a long shot but you need to treat it as if it is for now. This thing with her friend will surface at some point.

[Lester]

Well we have counseling, and she has avoided me all night? Is that a bad sign?

 

Dear Byante,

 

Again, it’s not about her.

 

Yes, she is going to keep avoiding you…until she has built her new life. Revenge for the way you treated her.

 

Most likely, once she has her new life she’ll wish she still had you! Trustworthy husbands are always under valued by an angry wives.

 

Remember this! You’re not just fighting to save you and your marriage but also her.

 

Byante, Make no mistake about it… time is running out.

 

I am giving you step-by-step instructions on how to save your marriage. I am not hypothesizing or guessing.

 

You need to buy time. You do this through action.

 

Did you order the book last night?

 

Did you follow my earlier instructions from yesterday’s 3:15PM post?

 

------------------------

 

If not, I hope you have some other plan.

 

I will not be able check this forum till later today so I’ll give you some more thoughts.

 

- Watch your weight and physical appearance. Your brain is burning huge amounts of energy. Eat more if needed. Weigh yourself three times a week.

- You can’t look run down. It’s a sign of weakness and will be taken the wrong way by your wife.

- Do not plead or grieve. Don’t cry.

- Act like your planning on dating this girl, (wife) in the future. How would you act and look on that date.

- Do not ask her out or to do anything at this point.

- If she is going out with friends/family for a night out…tell her to have fun and mean it.

 

---------------------

 

When you married… There were three who came together. You, God and your wife. That’s right, he picked her for you! When you wed… the universe nudged just a little. It not only changed you but everything. (Wow, bet you didn’t know that!)

 

But, what did guys like you and me do with it? Take it for granted.

We began to use your mouths, (in the wrong way) to harm our wives.

 

Something happened.

 

Because women are totally different than us they react differently to harshness.

 

They begin to build a wall.

 

Shutting you/me out.

 

They get the bricks for that wall from us.

 

Each brick is a criticism, a harsh word, a forgotten date, over discipline of the children, not treating her with loving care, etc, etc.

 

Your wall is high. You can only see the top of her head. (This is the first time most husbands realize something is dreadfully wrong with their marriage.)

 

This wall is not going to go away by telling your wife anything.

 

It can be dismantled brick by brick.

 

It will take years but can be done!

 

One accepted, sincere apology for past wrong removes one brick.

 

A thoughtful, loving moment can remove one brick. (Remember the kiss on the cheek I told you to give her.)

 

 

--------------------------

 

Now you know why you need time.

 

-------------------

 

She’s building a life on the other side of that wall… unseen to you.

 

You need to get her to start peeking back at you.

 

You do this by action. Action today.

[byante]

Well we r getting a divorce, now debating living arrangements and kids. Options thrown out is kids stay in home and one of us leaves or we cohabitat until the school year is over so both kidscan be with us but we set boundaries, any thoughts?