friends with benefits .. sex not being one of them

[mentee]

Background: B is a co-resident in my surgical program. We became fast friends, but hooked up early on in the friendship. Our friendship quickly turned into a very involved but undefined relationship (spending most of our time together, planning things together, living in the same space, having typical relationship spats, etc). We were both confused about what we were and what we wanted, him being significantly more confused and unable to commit. Because of that we stopped being intimate but everything else remained the same (we still cuddled, held hands, kissed, slept in the same bed, but nothing below the belt). In February I started to have stronger feelings and ended the "friendship" but that didn't last very long. We went back into the same undefined relationship.

 

What I want: to feel secure in a committed relationship or at least feel secure on my own.

 

Why I haven't been able to cut things off: It would be a huge, huge loss for me if he wasn't in my life, and he feels the same way. Surgery residency is possibly one of the roughest things one can go through in life, especially for a woman. And unfortunately most of the surgeons I have encountered are self-centered, egotistical, abusive, mean, and arrogant people who lack kindness, compassion, and understanding. There are only 2 people in my program who amaze me with their sincerity and work ethic, and B is one of them. He is my bestest friend who is always looking out for me, taking care of me, protecting me. He makes sure I have dinner in front of me every night. He will walk blocks to get me something I'm craving although he may have had a harder day. He tears up when he sees me crying and stressed. And I go to great lengths for him as well (such as staying at work until 3am to help him out even though he pushes me to go home first or cleaning the apt so he can feel more comfortable at home) and feel a genuine concern for his well-being and happiness. I don't remember loving someone as much as I do him, and I have never been cared for to the extent that he cares for me.

 

We both love each other and treat each other well, and I can't imagine life without him, especially during this time. But I would also like security. I know that we never get real security in any relationship, but I would like for him to at least want a future that includes me.

 

So I feel stuck and scared. Afraid to let go of my bestest friend who would do absolutely anything for me ... except fall in love with me. ):

[mirrorman]

Caveat: I'm anything but a relationship expert, as you'll no doubt conclude from my other postings here! These are just my opinions, no more no less.

 

I think there are worse things than having someone in your life who obviously loves you and will stick by you no matter what. There are marriages which don't possess those very desirable quantities. Given the stressful nature of your chosen field, it's definitely a good thing to have someone around to um, provide you with regular benefits. And who stays with you even when that particular set of benefits isn't on the radar; that speaks volumes about B's character and his dedication to you!

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, don't worry so much about lifelong commitment. You're both medical residents, and making decisions of that magnitude at this time is going to be difficult at best, for you and him both. I would say, enjoy what you have to the max. If the relationship ends up going on the bookshelf of your life's experiences, consider yourself extremely fortunate to have known a straight-ahead guy who cared about you. On the other hand, if he shows up one day with an engagement ring, great!

 

What I'm trying to say is that you're incredibly fortunate to have a person like this in your life. Many of us can only wish for such a thing!

 

And unfortunately most of the surgeons I have encountered are self-centered, egotistical, abusive, mean, and arrogant people who lack kindness, compassion, and understanding. ...

 

That describes too many of the "health care professionals" whom I've seen over the years. You'd almost think that certain powerful people in the medical establishment wanted these people to turn out this way.

 

By the way, good on ya for having the guts to enter a field that's still highly male-dominated.

[mentee]

By the way, good on ya for having the guts to enter a field that's still highly male-dominated.

 

Thank you! It's a struggle every single day. I'm extremely disappointed in the kind of people I've met in the medical field. But people are people wherever you go. It was a wrong assumption of mine to think that physicians would generally be more compassionate. Perhaps they were initially, but soon became jaded. And I can't blame them either.

 

You're right about B. I feel extremely lucky to have this kind of person in my life. Maybe I should put more energy into loving him than into the fear of losing him.

[annie24]

i don't know if that is a good idea. B seems unwilling to commit so I don't think that investing your energy and love into him is a good idea. if you are looking for a real relationship, then i think you should really focus on yourself and finding another man. i'm afraid if you stay in this limbo with B that you're going to get really hurt in the long run.

 

has he told you what he is specifically confused about and why he doesn't want to commit?

[mentee]

Yes we've had a few tearful conversations about it but I don't think the reasons are any different than any other guy who will not commit.

 

- he's "terrified" of falling in love and us not working out

- his ex of 7 yrs (first gf) left him for someone else and it took him 4-5 years to get over the betrayal

- he's "over 50% sure" I'll find someone "better"

- he's very stressed out about the residency, trying to get into a competitive fellowship, and finishing in time to retire his parents

- he doesn't know what his future looks like and how marriage and kids will fit into the picture

- he feels so focused on his career that he fears he'll be a bad bf and lose me completely

- he believes that if he commits, by his own definition, it is a commitment to eventually marry me .. not just "seeing where it goes"

- after the betrayal, he thinks he's not capable of loving anyone

 

 

I've stayed for reasons already mentioned and I do feel very loved by him based only on his actions. I know I deserve someone who is ready and not afraid of being in love with me. But I don't want to lose him. We are obviously closer than best friends are, and he has said he's never had someone so close to him since the first ex .. and is not sure how to navigate through his feelings.

[annie24]

ok, this is my take - i don't think that focusing on this guy will get him over his fears/goals/etc... i have a feeling that if you withdrew a bit from him, didn't focus so much on a friendship, kept things more professional, and started going on dates with other men, that he might get 'scared' that's he's going to lose you and that will wake him up.

 

of course, i could be wrong. but a lot of these type A men will go after something if they really want it. i don't want you to waste your time pining over a guy who isn't giving you more than friendship. you know you deserve more. i do feel if you do join link removed and start looking for some guys who actually can give you a relationship, you will come out well. either by dating one of them, or B will "wake up" that he might lose you.

[mentee]

And although it may seem that the answer is clear, just imagine going through hell (surgical residency/abuse/sleep deprivation) but someone is there to hold your hand. I'm extremely grateful for him. It is costing him extra energy and who knows what else to be there for me, and that is why I cannot be upset with him for his inability to commit.

 

The only reason I'm even able to post today is because my back totally went out and I couldn't operate and was sent home. I know that perhaps I should find someone else but he's the best thing in my life. I ask myself, how would I even find the time/energy to find someone else? and will he ever understand what I'm going through as a resident?

[mentee]

You're right I should withdraw .. it's just tough because of the circumstances. And the oddest thing about all of this is if we were to define love only by actions, he loves me a lot more than I love him.

[annie24]

i know - he is giving you a lot of support, especially emotional. that is what a true friend is. he sounds like a very good friend, but isn't giving you what a boyfriend can give you, namely a solid relationship. i think you'll be disappointed if you pine after this guy because he has stated plenty of reasons why he cannot commit right now.

[lavenderdove]

I think the only person who can protect your heart is you. He may be a wonderful person, but he is making it clear that he doesn't see a future with you at this point. And if he is willing to see you and cuddle you and go without sex, then he is either someone with sexual issues, or he just isn't that attracted to you. It is normal for people who are that close to desire each other if there is a romantic attraction, and to NOT be satisfied with just cuddling..

 

You have to look at your heart like it's an unruly horse... you can't let it gallop away with you in the wrong direction, if that direction is getting more and more attached to him with no promise of a future.

 

You can start by trying to keep your emotions aligned with the reality of the situation. If you are so involved in work now that breaking up the friendship would be traumatic, then perhaps you can keep him as a friend, but entirely stop any pseudo romantic things like cuddling and acting like he is your boyfriend. Try to work in some dates or spend more time with other people so that he is not your only source of support.

 

So pull back to a well defined friendship where you treat him no differently than you would a female friend, and you don't engage in activities you wouldn't do with a female friend (i.e., no cuddling or pseudo-romance). You also have stop fantasizing about having more with him. Every time a thought of a future with him comes up, squash it with a 'not happening' comment to yourself and practice thought stopping (google it) if necessary to stop those thoughts.

 

My fear is that he just doesn't feel the level of romantic attraction to you that he should and hence is holding back. Or he just doesn't want a wife, or at least not for a long long time. No one wants to say to a dear friend that they love you as a friend but just aren't romantically attracted to you enough to make it more, so they will hedge and give all kinds of excuses.

 

So my suggestion is to start framing him as a brother in your mind, not a lover, and try to get some other dates and friends into your life.

[mentee]

thanks for the lovely advice .. I feel like I need to hear it multiple times to give myself the strength to do it!

[mirrorman]

...And if he is willing to see you and cuddle you and go without sex, then he is either someone with sexual issues, or he just isn't that attracted to you.

 

With all due respect, lavenderdove, I disagree. 36-hour work shifts can definitely do a number on one's libido; one might only have the desire (and energy) for cuddling rather than seduction! And if he wasn't attracted to her, he'd find someone whom he was attracted to in a hurry. The bottom line is there's nothing wrong with a physical relationship that doesn't involve sex as long as both parties are all right with that.

 

It is normal for people who are that close to desire each other if there is a romantic attraction, and to NOT be satisfied with just cuddling.....

 

Watch out for that word "normal". That concept doesn't always match up with how the real world works!

 

Mantee, I'm thinking that before you toss a great, supportive friendship into the dumper, first, you may want to stop thinking strictly in terms of boyfriend/fiance. You're both going through the spin-cycle right now, so major life decisions - like commitment - might not be do-able, not because either of you are commitment-phobic but because you're both up to your butts in alligators! Perhaps the reasons he gave you for not committing were on the level, perhaps they were all he could think of at the time, all things considered.

 

In my opinion, the best thing to do might be to be there for each other, and enjoy each other's company. If he's fiance material, it will become obvious once you guys are out of the "resident" zone!

[mentee]

Mirrorman, thank you so much for your advice. I think our situation is much more complex and difficult because B and I are surgical residents, which is almost like being in the military (but surgeons can probably get away with far more abuse).

 

I did talk to B today to let him know that things might be different from this point on. We pretty much live together so there a lot of changes to be made to keep things strictly platonic/friendly/brotherly. It's sad because I hurt my back pretty badly, and he came home from work with tons of NSAIDs and bengay patches. I was laying in bed, he playfully started tossing everything he bought for me onto the bed, drowning me in snacks and medicine and my favorite candy. He then gave me a back massage and kissed my lower back. Then he left and came back with dinner.

 

It's really hard for me to believe that he doesn't love me as more than friends but at the same time, if he wanted to be my boyfriend, he would be. And if he was in love with me, he'd tell me so. And if he didn't want to lose me, he wouldn't say it was okay for me to try to move on and do what I needed to do in order to be happy.

 

This morning before work, we had a talk. He said "I don't understand my feelings, but I want you to be happy. I feel confused like I don't want you to leave but I don't want to be selfish. I will always be here. But I know within a week you'll find someone new, and you'll be gone."

 

So my plan is to still pull back and create boundaries and hope I survive residency without him. ):

 

Mirrorman, are you also a physician? you really understand what hell residency is .. and what it does on the libido as well.

[annie24]

well you can still stay friends with him but mentally detach yourself from the idea of him as a boyfriend. he is a good friend, sure, but can't give you a romantic relationship. i think that kissing you on your back is kind of sending a lot of mixed signals.

[mentee]

I just came home after an afternoon with one of my best girlfriends. She's also a resident dating another surgical resident. She was having her own complaints also. They've been together for 1.5 yrs and he's already talking about marriage/kids/etc. but she doesn't feel loved after having multiple conversations about what he can do to make her feel more loved. Her situation is opposite of mine in the sense that she wishes her boyfriend did all the things that B does for me, but she's getting the promise of commitment that B can't give me.

 

Everything's more complicated as residents aren't able to give as much as someone else who has more free time can. And we were also discussing how difficult it is for successful women to find compatible men, especially as we get older. Whereas successful men can date any kind of woman at any age.

 

I'm feeling really frustrated, I guess. ):

[lavenderdove]

Plenty of people have extrememly high stress jobs that consume most of their time and energy, and that doesn't stop them from having a relationship. The two are not mutually exclusive, in fact, a supportive relationship is one of the factors that can make such a high stress job bearable.

 

So saying you're not together because of the job just isn't an excuse. Plenty of residents are married, have kids, get pregnant while in medical school and residency etc, and they are tired, but just fine as couples.

 

He's not your boyfriend because he doesn't want to be. And a stressful job can reduce libido, but i'd bet big money that he goes off and masterbates just like everyone else does when sex drive does hit, instead of choosing to have sex with you.

 

So a 'big' job is not excuse for avoiding intimacy and a relationship. He's not your boyfriend because he doesn't want to be your boyfriend, not because you are residents. Please don't distract yourself from that point, because it will just raise your hopes and keep you in a 'friendly' relationship that isn't going anywhere.

 

I think it is perfectly fine if you want to keep him as a friend, but you need to stop the boyfriend fantasies, and if you want a boyfriend now, look elsewhere. I think it will break your heart even worse if you let this continue, then at the end of the residency he says, you're a great friend, i'm moving 3000 miles away for a job, let's keep in touch, then he's gone in a poof and you're devastated.

 

It is far wiser to ramp this back to 'real' friends (no massages, no cuddling, no fantasies of a future), then be pleasantly surprised if one day he says, i can't leave you, i've changed my mind, than the reverse, where you invest more and more in him, then are shocked when he moves away. So don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[mentee]

Lavender I think you have seriously misinterpreted my last post and did not read my previous.

 

I have never believed that he doesn't want to be with me because of the job and was surprised that you said so. I was making a general statement about residents. Isn't it clear that my mind is in the right place if I had already decided to change the dynamics of our friendship and already told him so?

 

I feel like I triggered something in you regarding my feelings about being a busy resident. I think its important to know that surgery residency is by far the most difficult in medicine. I don't expect non-MDs to know or even imagine but when I vent about my frustrations I hope readers can try to understand my situation. Many ppl in medicine have relationships but that doesn't mean they aren't strained or unhappy. I am only speaking from my own experience and my colleagues'.

I'd like to know that I can express my troubles on enotalone and have some sympathy. As this is not an easy thing to go through.

[lavenderdove]

Mentee, i am responding to other people's comments like Mirrorman's who is blaming the long hours for his lack of interest in you, that perhaps the job is what is making him not want a romance (i.e., he's too stressed, he's too tired).

 

I am just pointing out that people regardless of their situation get involved in relationships if they want to be in a relationship, and if they tell you they don't want a relationship, then you have to listen to that and do what it takes to protect your own heart.

 

The career itself (or demands of the career) are irrelevant. People get involved in relationships because they want to be with the person, and if they are saying they don't want to be in a relationship, that is your cue to pull back and not hurt yourself more by playing at some kind of pseudo-romance with them, that is friendship in their minds, but romance in yours.

 

i am extremely sympathetic to your position as it is awful to be around someone all the time that you want a romance with, and all they want is friendship. I think that is why people are telling you you need to pull back, because you are getting more and more attached to someone who is a fine friend, but who is rejecting you as a romance. The more attached you get, the harder it will be in future when he leaves the program and goes off on his own to a job elsewhere, and leaves you behind.

 

That was my point, to not use your proximity to him now to build false hopes for a future, when he is saying he doesn't want a romance. Enjoy the friendship, but put a damper on romantic thoughts/expectations.

[mentee]

So just an update:

 

It's been about 3 wks since I stopped everything (living together, acting like a couple) and started treating him strictly as a best friend. We recently had a talk where he said maybe we should exclusively date, but take it day by day. Right now he's applying for fellowship which he'll leave for before I'm done with my training. What he wants is competitive so I don't know where he'll end up. I don't know how "exclusively dating" is any different than what we did before (being together but no idea of what we'd do in the future). So I thought about it. I thought to ask him to be in a committed relationship, which to me includes a promise to stay with me in the future and consider me before the fellowship. Then I realized that I didn't want that. I actually don't want him to promise me anything right now, and I want him to focus on trying to get the fellowship and achieve his career goals.

 

There are a lot of things I need to focus on too in my life, and I realize I couldn't make him any promises either. In a way, this revelation was a big relief. I'm going through a lot of things, and he's been there for me every step of the way. I feel very loved and consider myself lucky to know him. And I guess we can just date (at least officially now) and see what happens.

[mentee]

another update:

 

we've been officially together for the last 3 months .. he's been a wonderful boyfriend ! mirrorman, you were spot on about everything, thanks!