People should respect other people's morals and values

[newwave]

This isn't just aimed at certain people here, but in general. Seems that when I've told people my standards, I am told that I need to lower my standards. However these aren't "standards" these are morals and values.

 

For instance my major ones are divorce, single parenthood, and parenthood in general. In most cases (I'd say 90% easily) I think divorce is wrong. I agree with divorce in the cases of infidelity and abuse, but otherwise generally not. I am tired of meeting people and them saying they got a divorce because they didn't love the spouse anymore, or they changed. I'd tell them to suck it up. This is true with regards to kids. Kids generally should be raised by married couples. This is especially true when it comes to single parenthood. I am morally opposed to having kids out of wedlock. It's wrong and shows me the person has a lack of morals. These are my views and people should respect that we all have different values (or lack thereof).

 

By saying this does this mean I'd go up to a guy never married with a kid and say he has no morals? Of course not, but the reality is his morals don't match mine. Most divorced men also don't have the same morals as me. There are enough divorced women out there that might be interested in them. I want to marry once unless my spouse dies and I want someone who feels the same way. A divorced guy in most cases doesn't feel the same way, because they got a divorce. I realize that many women file for divorce but I'd have to question why. Was it because the guy was a chauvinist? Was he cheating? Too many questions. I realize this lessens the dating pool and might leave out some great guys but it's a chance I have to take. I might reconsider in the case of a guy briefly married and his wife left him

 

I know some people might say by me posting this I am not respecting their views, but the reality is I don't care what someone does, just don't expect me to bypass how I feel. I do not go up to people and tell them I disagree with their lifestyle.

[Ebrithil]

Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion and moral values as you have rightly said and no one should ask you to change yours for the convenience of what ever.

 

I think your right in some aspects, I think people get married to soon, they dont take the time to develop their relationship to see if it will last before commiting to it. I also think that if you are truley unhappy and you have tryed to make it work then you shouldnt have to worry what other people will say of you. In the end you should seek to be happy.

 

Im not entierly sure if you ment to say you would never concidor a divorced guy I know you said some could be really nice people I just think people should be judged on the merit of their charictor, not thier past mistakes.

[Day_Walker]

I think that you can respect another persons beliefs, morals and/or values and still disagree with that person.

 

I think that you can believe whatever you like but from what you said above I do not agree with your morals/values. I do respect that you can believe whatever it is that you want/choose to believe.

[sunshinecity]

As much as some would like to criticize your standards, they're yours and it doesn't matter what other's think.

 

I am a divorced woman with one child. My divorce resulted after years of alcoholism, physical abuse and infidelity on the part of my ex-husband. However, I feel the same way you do about people divorcing bc they simply fell out of love or like with their spouse. I married with the intention of being married til we parted in death. It didn't work that way. I'm okay with that now.

 

That being said, I'm not against dating a divorced man with children. I don't have as many 'only in the case of's' as you. But I have found myself turning a man down after finding out he has kids with more than one woman or if he has kids and has never been married. Or a big one, if he has kids by more than one woman AND has never been married. Recently I met a nice guy. He was recently divorced.... too recently for my liking. That was a red flag for me right away. Rebound guys are not my style. But the big turn off for me was that he divorced bc he and his wife no longer had anything in common.... WHAT??? What a cop out IMO. Biggie number two.... They had 5 kids together. FIVE. However nice he was, I just couldn't/didn't want to get to know him any further. I actually went out with him a couple of times and all he talked about was his ex and his kids. No biggie about talking about the kids, but the ex?? Give me a break already.

 

I don't have many people speaking to me about my standards. That may be bc I never complain about being alone or single or that I can't find a good man- not saying that you do. I'd love to meet someone but I love my own company and I'm a happy person. That's all that matters and that's all that should matter with you. Who cares what people think about your standards? You shouldn't. But if your posts come off as critical of others or preachy, then that's why people have a problem with your 'standards/morals'.

[HellFrost666]

It sucks when people do this, but unfortunately it will never change. I can tell by reading your post that you are intelligent enough to know that.

[newwave]

Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion and moral values as you have rightly said and no one should ask you to change yours for the convenience of what ever.

 

I think your right in some aspects, I think people get married to soon, they dont take the time to develop their relationship to see if it will last before commiting to it. I also think that if you are truley unhappy and you have tryed to make it work then you shouldnt have to worry what other people will say of you. In the end you should seek to be happy.

 

Im not entierly sure if you ment to say you would never concidor a divorced guy I know you said some could be really nice people I just think people should be judged on the merit of their charictor, not thier past mistakes.

 

I might consider a divorced guy but would depend on why they divorced and how long they were married (and had no kids). I have dated divorced guys and they had serious issues and were dead set on never marrying again. I know people have stated that guys after 40 don't want to marry, but I strongly disagree and think they are more likely to marry than divorced according to my experience.

 

The reason I posted this is because I've seen so many people here and even offline who said I was being picky. To me being picky is rejecting a guy because he is chubby or because he's a blond instead of a dark haired (or has no hair). Being picky is not because he has kids and I don't want to be a stepmother.

[newwave]

As much as some would like to criticize your standards, they're yours and it doesn't matter what other's think.

 

I am a divorced woman with one child. My divorce resulted after years of alcoholism, physical abuse and infidelity on the part of my ex-husband. However, I feel the same way you do about people divorcing bc they simply fell out of love or like with their spouse. I married with the intention of being married til we parted in death. It didn't work that way. I'm okay with that now.

 

That's definitely valid reasons to divorce in your case.

 

That being said, I'm not against dating a divorced man with children. I don't have as many 'only in the case of's' as you. But I have found myself turning a man down after finding out he has kids with more than one woman or if he has kids and has never been married. Or a big one, if he has kids by more than one woman AND has never been married. Recently I met a nice guy. He was recently divorced.... too recently for my liking. That was a red flag for me right away. Rebound guys are not my style. But the big turn off for me was that he divorced bc he and his wife no longer had anything in common.... WHAT??? What a cop out IMO. Biggie number two.... They had 5 kids together. FIVE. However nice he was, I just couldn't/didn't want to get to know him any further. I actually went out with him a couple of times and all he talked about was his ex and his kids. No biggie about talking about the kids, but the ex?? Give me a break already

 

Those are all red flags. I once met a guy with several kids out of wedlock by different women. I refused to even consider this guy. These guys will likely do the same to any woman.

[Mauxly]

I agree that it is your life, your heart and you get to decide whatever you'd like regarding who you'd like to date. I also think that you may have a more difficult time finding a mate, but it can be argued that you'd rather be alone indefinitely than be with the wrong person right?

 

Not that you asked but I agree that divorce for divorce sake is wrong. And the men I've dated who've done that wound up being flakes. So I get you there. If they are willing to make the commitment of marriage, and then up and leave when it doesn't suit them anymore it means that marriage to them isn't what it is to me. So I'm in full agreement there.

 

I have to disagree about the child thing. Sometimes things happen and women don't want to get an abortion. But they don't want to be tied to someone who may be horrible for both them and the kids. So they go it alone. I know too many happy single mothers with awesome children to judge them negatively. Again, you didn't ask, but I thought I'd weigh in anyway.

 

I think you'll see a lot of this. You state your opinion, someone states theirs, and then it kind of turns into what seems like an argument where one person is trying to sway the other to their view. It may or may not be the case...

[IntotheWild]

I think some people may feel judged when you state so absolutely that a divorce implies a lower moral standard. Not to offend you, but it seems a bit legalistic of a criteria to judge moral fiber. You could have a divorced person that fully loved their significant other, but their S.O. just left them for whatever selfish reason. Your moral stance says that person is not good enough for you. Then you could have a man who never married, but verbally abused his ex-gf for three years before she dumped him. That guy hasn't been divorced so he passes on your moral meter.

 

There is also the issue of how to define marriage. It's a very old institution, but in modern times it's defined by a legal document. In older times and in certain cultures, it was defined by a vow. It's also been defined by sexual intimacy - there is a sect of Christianity that says once you've had sex with a person, you're married to them - the physical act establishes a marriage.

 

So while I understand that you want people to respect your beliefs, you could equally benefit by trying to understand why other people may have problems with them. Imagine if someone posted on here, "I believe all gays are evil and people need to respect that." You can imagine they wouldn't get favorable responses, and for good reason. Stating certain beliefs sometimes just screams "This is how I judge people."

[Ebrithil]

I can understand that, I think that there is a lot of steriotyping some times though hence my comment about judging people on the merit of thier charictor. But you shouldnt go into a relationship without wanting somthing from it.

 

Is not chosing somone because they are chubby shallow or picky? or is it that you know what you want and you want to be with somone who can accommodate your every need and desire (I dont mean that comment to be offensive to anyone, its just an example).

[Mauxly]

I agree with intothewild. I think that it is fine for you to have your own views, but maybe the way you state them hurt other people's feelings.

 

I'm not sure that you can get around that and still be honest on here, so I'm not saying stop talking about what you believe in. Just understand that you may wind up stepping on some toes and you'll have to buck up and take the flack.

[newwave]

Just for the record I am not judging friends on these, just guys. To be honest I'd likely also judge a guy who had a string of life in girlfriends too.

[lavenderdove]

OK, here's my favorite story of all time to illustrate the problem of confusing 'judmental' with 'morals and standards'.

 

If Joseph had had your attitude, he never would have married Mary, Jesus' mother. Mary was an unwed mother. and if he'd been judgmental, he'd never have married her and help raise Jesus.

 

Morals might be you don't believe in sex outside of marriage, or you don't believe in cheating or stealing. But rejecting someone just because life has thrown them a curve and they might be divorced or have kids from another marriage is about being judgmental.

 

Please don't think yourself as having 'superior' morals becaue you wouldn't marry a man with children from a prior relationship. Personally, my own morals and standards would say such a person is very judgmental, which isn't an admirable trait.

 

Of course you can choose anybody you want as a partner for any reason at all (or reject anyone at all for any reason), but don't try to hide your choices behind being 'moral or high standards'. That has nothig to do with it.

[Dako]

I used to feel somewhat the same.

 

I just got off the phone with my ex wife. I'm helping her replace a car battery and installing a TV antenna on her house. She just bought me an iPod. She wanted to be single so I agreed because I love her. Before you scoff, that's what happened. No abuse, and we both care for each other.

 

I'm looking for a partner.

Hope she's immoral by your standards.

[Mauxly]

I'm looking for a partner.

Hope she's immoral.

 

Thanks for making my day!

 

Darn it man, you edited it and completely changed the meaning for me.

 

Day no longer made. I thought you were talking about looking for a randy girl, thought it was cute!

[Puddincup]

I have gone out on a few dates with divorced guys and they didn't go so great. I remember in particular one guy who complained about what a cold jerk his exwife was and I thought that was disrespectful somehow. I know they have a lot of history but I don't think a first date is the time to talk negatively about your ex-spouse. The way I see it is that he probably thought the exwife was a challenge when they were dating and stayed interested because he couldn't quite figure her out, then they got married and then he realized after awhile that she was cold all along.

 

I find that as a single woman who has never been married that I have more in common with a single man who has also never been married. Like I said, I have gone out with divorced guys but usually find that my best relationships are with men who have always been single, like me. Same with kids. I just can't relate as well to men who have kids. It's not a moral or values thing, but more about compatibility.

[Dako]

Thanks for making my day!

 

Darn it man, you edited it and completely changed the meaning for me.

 

Day no longer made. I thought you were talking about looking for a randy girl, thought it was cute!

 

I was trying to stay pertinent, but randy wouldn't put me off.

[Batya33]

My guess is that there's an element of sabotage in your strident stance on divorce, parenthood, etc. It gives you an excuse to avoid huge numbers of people to date based on "morals" so you can stay in your negative comfort zone. It's interesting how you judge others' morals - when you said you would blame god and be mad at god if you end up not getting married or having a baby. Is it moral in your religion to blame god or be mad at god beause you didn't get what you wanted out of life?

[bruinsy81]

My guess is that there's an element of sabotage in your strident stance on divorce, parenthood, etc. It gives you an excuse to avoid huge numbers of people to date based on "morals" so you can stay in your negative comfort zone. It's interesting how you judge others' morals - when you said you would blame god and be mad at god if you end up not getting married or having a baby. Is it moral in your religion to blame god or be mad at god beause you didn't get what you wanted out of life?

I agree with the ''negative comfort zone'' suggestion and the kind of attitude the OP expresses would clearly SEVERELY limit a potential dating pool .

[jettison]

This is one of those threads that just screams to be deconstructed, so in the spirit of deductive reasoning, I'll oblige.

 

First, when you say "people should respect people's morals and values", do you really mean that people should respect YOUR morals and values, or do you mean that all people should respect all other people's morals and values? Or, do you think people should only respect others morals and values if they are the same as yours?

 

What if someone said that "my morals conclude that if you are 10 lbs overweight, that that must mean that you engage in glutony, and therefore, it will be immoral for me to ever date you." Or, what if they presented, "It is immoral for me to date you because of your use of unseemly expletives. You cursed and took the lord's name in vain after I just kicked you in the shins. No to a relationship, bub."

 

In regards to your "won't date a divorced guy" rub, I think other posters have already poked a lot of wholes in this whole idea, but I'll poke a little more just for good measure. "Most divorced men don't have the same morals as me?" Does this mean that their morals are simply different then yours, or are your morals superior to their morals? If your morals are superior, then why is that so? And from where, specifically, do you get your morals? Personal experience, parents, the bible, etc? Or a collection of all of the above? Does intrinsic knowledge simply make you right and others wrong? If that's not it, what deity makes this so?

 

And as a person who is presenting themselves as so static, without even a hint of malleability, what does it mean to grow and change? Is growing and changing simply not a part of your dynamic? No increase in maturity as you age? Newwave at 19 is the same as Newwave at 60 in your estimation? If that's true, does that strike you as sad, unusual, inspiring? What adjective comes to mind to describe a person whose mind is so made up that it could never change, no matter the experience or stimulus presented?

 

Half of all divorced people get divorced because it is forced upon them. What of this lot? If you get married, and then your husband divorces you, and there's simply no choice in the matter, do you then, by default, become one of those "immoral" people that you preach about in this thread? And if that's true, would you consider it the right thing to do for a moral man to steer well clear of you, and to treat you as some kind of inferior human being that doesn't measure up to their standards? After all, you are now a dreaded "divorcee".

 

All that said, I disagree with your general principle on merit. "People should accept other people's morals and values." Respect isn't something you decide. It is an agreement that you have with yourself about another person based on your personal morals. Therefore, I am not at liberty to say "I respect your belief that divorced people are immoral." I do not respect it. I find that assertion to be patently absurd. I do, however, feel like I need to accept your morality, and that you should have every right in the world to live your life this way. Your bias is your bias, we all have him, and I would never tell you what you should be allowed to prefer... in your case, the never-married as a dating/life partner.

 

My morality tells me that I could never date someone who saw the world through such a black and white, reactionary, tiny prism of a lens. I would find that utterly distasteful and immoral. This means based on your omission of people you don't know or understand, and because my moral code would not allow me to date a person like you and still respect myself. And, if you stand by what you say in the title of this thread, then you "should respect other people's (mine) morals and values." Those happen to be my morals and values. Do you respect them? If you don't then your premise is null and void. If you do "respect" them, then how do you respect them and why?

 

In conclusion and full circle, I think that the whole point of this thread is basically to say, "if you don't look at the world like I do then you're a poor excuse for a human being." On on that note, I'll let anyone else have the floor now.

[newwave]

Why exactly does it make me a negative person because I am opposed to dating these types of guys? Because I don't date women does that make me a homophobe? Of course not. No, I want a specific thing and that's what I want. Maybe the one I like will come back or maybe I'll find another never married/no kid guy (yes they are out there). If I don't then if I am still single, then that's how it is. I am tired of people judging me because of this. Muslims don't eat pork, would you judge them for this? Same thing.

[jettison]

Why exactly does it make me a negative person because I am opposed to dating these types of guys?

 

Two points. One, I never said "you're a negative person", nor mentioned the word negative. Two, no one is opposed to you dating "these types". Some people may, however, disagree quite a bit with your static morality.

 

Because I don't date women does that make me a homophobe?

 

No, that makes you straight.

 

Of course not. No, I want a specific thing and that's what I want. Maybe the one I like will come back or maybe I'll find another never married/no kid guy (yes they are out there).

 

Then why not simply say, "I prefer to date men who were never married." Not a single objection would have been logged in any of the replies. You clearly state that you think it is immoral to divorce... or even to date multiple women before settling down. So, you conveniently lump every person that fits a certain criteria into the same mold, completing ignoring that infinite shades of gray that color their character and their morality.

 

If I don't then if I am still single, then that's how it is. I am tired of people judging me because of this. Muslims don't eat pork, would you judge them for this? Same thing.

 

You are tired of people judging you, and your entire thread is based on the premise of you judging half the people in our society based on something that has happened to them, and judging them harshly.

 

"I'm tired of you judging me... I'm the one that gets to judge you!"

 

And no irony? Really?

 

Why would you hold everyone else to a standard that you can't even live by? Further, why would you judge me for not agreeing with you? "It's like Muslims don't eat pork...same thing." What do you have against people that would disagree with you? I feel like I"m being opressed. (See how twisted this can get?) Why not just start judging people as individuals rather then lump them all in this big group so you no longer have to think about them?

 

 

"Judge not lest ye be judged"? Ring a bell?

[newwave]

I never said anything about those who date many women, I said I'd question why a guy lived with many women. Different thing, and yes it would send red flags. Yes, I only date never married/no kids guys. Would I consider a guy with kids? NO WAY. Different than a preference of say hair color. Yes I prefer dark haired men but would date a blonde guy. I do not approve of divorce in most instances nor do I approve of guys with kids out of wedlock. I know that's unpc to say, but it's true.

[tf987]

Just curious but what are your morals based on? ...religious views?

 

Who says that a divorce is wrong if 2 people decide to end it and they don't have kids? Who is hurt in that case?

 

It's fine to have your own beliefs, but if you want to post them here you should expect to get some different opinions.

[newwave]

Yes, religious views. I have friends who had kids out of wedlock or even divorced, but not what I want for my partner.