iLiveWithMyMom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 @heloladies21 OK. First off, no one is trying to be judgmental. I just gave my opinion on the question on topic. If you took what I said personally, then I apologize for offending you, but short of not posting, there's nothing I can do about that. I've read through this entire thread, and I'm really not sure why you're being so defensive actually. lol. Also, my distinguishing between aggressive sex and rape was not a tangent. You said you and your gf "like it rough", and I was trying to clear up what I consider "rough" and how it's not synonymous with "rape". @jul-els Not being the least bit rhetorical, because I'm sure people like me really want to understand the situation, but could you (or anyone else) explain what exactly it is about the "idea" of rape that turn would turn a person on? For example, is it just the idea of a man overpowering a woman, or is it the idea of a woman being violated? I mean, you can have the first without rape, so I'm finding it difficult to understand people's mindset. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 @heloladies21 OK. First off, no one is trying to be judgmental. I just gave my opinion on the question on topic. If you took what I said personally, then I apologize for offending you, but short of not posting, there's nothing I can do about that. I've read through this entire thread, and I'm really not sure why you're being so defensive actually. lol. I believe that you are not intentionally trying to be judgmental, but it doesn't change the fact that the negative connotation of "How on earth could you be into that sort of thing?" is very pervasive in all of the critic's posts on this thread. You can be judgmental negligently, or recklessly, as opposed to intentionally. Also, my distinguishing between aggressive sex and rape was not a tangent. You said you and your gf "like it rough", and I was trying to clear up what I consider "rough" and how it's not synonymous with "rape". Everybody will have a different standard. Not being the least bit rhetorical, because I'm sure people like me really want to understand the situation, but could you (or anyone else) explain what exactly it is about the "idea" of rape that turn would turn a person on? For example, is it just the idea of a man overpowering a woman, or is it the idea of a woman being violated? I mean, you can have the first without rape, so I'm finding it difficult to understand people's mindset. How can anyone explain any of their sexual fetishes? Some people are into oral sex, some like doing people dressed up like clowns. There really is no other explanation to why people like to do what they do other than "just because." Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I believe that you are not intentionally trying to be judgmental, but it doesn't change the fact that the negative connotation of "How on earth could you be into that sort of thing?" is very pervasive in all of the critic's posts on this thread. You can be judgmental negligently, or recklessly, as opposed to intentionally. People have the right to their opinions, and the poster asked for them. If someones answer makes you feel bad, then you need to grow up. If you question your own interests because of what someone says on a message board, then you need to question your interests. How can anyone explain any of their sexual fetishes? Some people are into oral sex, some like doing people dressed up like clowns. There really is no other explanation to why people like to do what they do other than "just because." Some people like children. Some people like animals. Everything isn't "ok". We shouldn't accept everyone fetishes because we don't want them to feel bad... Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 heloladies: People that aren't into it aren't going to understand and you can't expect them to. I honestly have no idea why anyone would have a foot fetish, IMO the fetish is kind of silly. It doesn't mean I look down on the people that do have a foot fetish though. There's no need to become defensive about differing opinions, especially since this is a sensitive subject for many. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 People have the right to their opinions, and the poster asked for them. If someones answer makes you feel bad, then you need to grow up. If you question your own interests because of what someone says on a message board, then you need to question your interests. Don't ascribe views onto me which I don't hold. Nobody's answer makes me feel bad or question my views. Some people like children. Some people like animals. Everything isn't "ok". We shouldn't accept everyone fetishes because we don't want them to feel bad... Your acceptance is irrelevant, the fetish of viewing acted rape porn is legal. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 heloladies: People that aren't into it aren't going to understand and you can't expect them to. I honestly have no idea why anyone would have a foot fetish, IMO the fetish is kind of silly. It doesn't mean I look down on the people that do have a foot fetish though. There's no need to become defensive about differing opinions, especially since this is a sensitive subject for many. I'm not here to change anybody's mind (what's in it for me?), just as a personal exercise in discussion. Just because I argue passionately doesn't mean that this discussion is affecting me on a deeply emotional level. I'm OK, thank you for the concern. Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Don't ascribe views onto me which I don't hold. Nobody's answer makes me feel bad or question my views. Your acceptance is irrelevant, the fetish of viewing acted rape porn is legal. Unless you know the person who the OP is talking about then you don't know how the rape-porn was acquired. You can't say whether it was legal or not, you don't know...as I don't know... If you think it is alright for a man to have fantasies about raping women, do you think it would be alright for someone to have fantasies about raping children? Or if they write stories about raping children, or draw pictures of raping children? How is one more acceptable than the other? Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'm not here to change anybody's mind (what's in it for me?), just as a personal exercise in discussion. Just because I argue passionately doesn't mean that this discussion is affecting me on a deeply emotional level. I'm OK, thank you for the concern. I wasn't really concerned, but you're welcome I guess... If you're not trying to change anyone's mind, what's the point of arguing? Seems kinda pointless. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I wasn't really concerned, but you're welcome I guess... If you're not trying to change anyone's mind, what's the point of arguing? Seems kinda pointless. What's the point of this thread, or this board? It's all just to discuss, learn. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If you think it is alright for a man to have fantasies about raping women, do you think it would be alright for someone to have fantasies about raping children? Or if they write stories about raping children, or draw pictures of raping children? How is one more acceptable than the other? People can fantasize about whatever it is that they please. Making it illegal to "think" something is impossible. Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Unless you know the person who the OP is talking about then you don't know how the rape-porn was acquired. You can't say whether it was legal or not, you don't know...as I don't know... If you think it is alright for a man to have fantasies about raping women, do you think it would be alright for someone to have fantasies about raping children? Or if they write stories about raping children, or draw pictures of raping children? How is one more acceptable than the other? How are movies where assassins are the heroes, and serial killers are the main characters whom you're supposed to sympathize with much different from acted rape porn (assuming it's acted)? Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 People can fantasize about whatever it is that they please. Making it illegal to "think" something is impossible. I didn't ask you if it should be illegal, just as the OP did not ask if rape-video movies were legal. The question is should they be accepted, or treated as a red flag. So again, my question is, do you, heloladies21, think that is acceptable for a man to have fantasies and/or cartoons of children being raped. Do you, heloladies21, think that this should be a "red flag" (*see thread title) to someone in a relationship. I do not care what the laws are, that is not the question. Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 How are movies where assassins are the heroes, and serial killers are the main characters whom you're supposed to sympathize with much different from acted rape porn (assuming it's acted)? Generally people don't masturbate to action movies or movies about serial killers. Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Generally people don't masturbate to action movies or movies about serial killers. But they enjoy watching them, do they not? And does it really make it different just because masturbation is involved? And if so, how? Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 But they enjoy watching them, do they not? And does it really make it different just because masturbation is involved? And if so, how? Its different because it involves sexual gratification. They get off on this stuff. It points to their wants and desires. I can watch True Lies, and fantasize about being an action hero, flying planes and saving the world; and no matter how great my urge, that probably won't happen. Someone who gets off on seeing people raped... it's easier for them to fulfill that fantasy than mine to fly a 747 while holding a mini-gun. Do you think rape is a more serious act than physical violence? Why? Both are physical assaults? Does it really make it different because sex is involved? Link to comment
Lights Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 But they enjoy watching them, do they not? And does it really make it different just because masturbation is involved? And if so, how? Sexual enjoyment is a lot different than just sitting and watching a movie. Comes from different places, and the enjoyment is different altogether. Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Its different because it involves sexual gratification. They get off on this stuff. It points to their wants and desires. I can watch True Lies, and fantasize about being an action hero, flying planes and saving the world; and no matter how great my urge, that probably won't happen. Someone who gets off on seeing people raped... it's easier for them to fulfill that fantasy than mine to fly a 747 while holding a mini-gun. Do you think rape is a more serious act than physical violence? Why? Both are physical assaults? Does it really make it different because sex is involved? Good question. If suppose if someone was physically violent just for the pleasure of it, then no I don't think it's a less serious act than rape. Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Sexual enjoyment is a lot different than just sitting and watching a movie. Comes from different places, and the enjoyment is different altogether. I just feel like this comes from the whole 'sex is bad' idea and that we must repress it. So you're watching an action flick, and you're cheering for the main character because he's kicking ass and killing everyone, but it's not as bad? I dunno... I just try not to judge people for their thoughts because we all have our dark twisted fantasies deep down. Link to comment
heloladies21 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I just try not to judge people for their thoughts because we all have our dark twisted fantasies deep down. Except for those of us who are above all of those "dirty" thoughts Link to comment
Samedy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I just feel like this comes from the whole 'sex is bad' idea and that we must repress it. So you're watching an action flick, and you're cheering for the main character because he's kicking ass and killing everyone, but it's not as bad? I dunno... I just try not to judge people for their thoughts because we all have our dark twisted fantasies deep down. But context does change things. College guy #1: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he thinks the puppets are funny and appreciate the creative engineering that goes into the creation of the show. College guy #2: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he masturbates to Big Bird. Who do you ask to babysit for you? Link to comment
greywolf Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 But context does change things. College guy #1: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he thinks the puppets are funny and appreciate the creative engineering that goes into the creation of the show. College guy #2: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he masturbates to Big Bird. Who do you ask to babysit for you? If that's all I have to go by, then I'd pick the first one. Although it's really hard to say without actually meeting said hypothetical people. I mean, guy #2 could be a cool guy with just a furry fetish for all I know. Link to comment
iLiveWithMyMom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 lol. I really need to be in bed, but dang ENA is so interesting tonight. Let me just say this. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think people who watch rape porn are any more likely (as a whole) to go out and rape someone vs someone who doesn't watch rape porn. However, I'm willing to bet that a very, very large majority of rapists are into rape porn; just like pedophiles are almost always caught with a stash of child porn. What I'm getting at is this: if you're an otherwise extremely compassionate and empathetic person who finds real rape abhorrent to the core, how can you take sexual gratification in watching people act it out? Rapists watch, well because they're rapists, but I don't know why otherwise very morally decent people would. It's like I'm against drowning puppies in real life, and if I saw a movie where someone was drowning puppies, even if it was fake, I'd have the same basic reaction as if it was real. lol. Link to comment
jul-els Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 @heloladies21 Not being the least bit rhetorical, because I'm sure people like me really want to understand the situation, but could you (or anyone else) explain what exactly it is about the "idea" of rape that turn would turn a person on? For example, is it just the idea of a man overpowering a woman, or is it the idea of a woman being violated? I mean, you can have the first without rape, so I'm finding it difficult to understand people's mindset. That's completely subjective. I appreciate you saying your not being rhetorical, but there's no way for me to answer that. Why does anything turn anyone on? There are more reasons than there are things to be turned on by. Link to comment
Mia_of_Doom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 What I'm getting at is this: if you're an otherwise extremely compassionate and empathetic person who finds real rape abhorrent to the core, how can you take sexual gratification in watching people act it out? Rapists watch, well because they're rapists, but I don't know why otherwise very morally decent people would. Because rape is a taboo (to put it lightly) subject, and thus alluring because of how forbidden it is in a real life context. Feels weird to spell it out like that but it's the same reasoning behind sexual gratification of BDSM, talking dirty, anal sex, etc. I would NEVER want to be bound and gagged or have insulting words thrown at me in a real life situation. But in the bedroom with a partner I trust, it would be exciting. Am I making sense? Link to comment
1MoreChance Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 But context does change things. College guy #1: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he thinks the puppets are funny and appreciate the creative engineering that goes into the creation of the show. College guy #2: Enjoys watching Sesame Street because he masturbates to Big Bird. Who do you ask to babysit for you? LOL I couldn't help but laugh at the thought of this guy jacking off to big bird LOL!!!! Seriously though, I'd NOT have him over to baby sit my kids (or even my dog). I think you make some great points Samedi. and I agree it is true that there is a difference between watching an "action" flic where some people get shot (though I think that there are far too many of those these days, including tv cop shows, and that says something about where we are as humans), and masturbating to violent rape scenes. Everyone, remember the description of those scenes by the OP. and I just want to say that nobody forced the "anonymous" poster to post under a different avatar. She is imposing this upon herself and I agree with what samedi said: is she that worried about what others think, is she coming to doubt herself and her choices because others doubt them? then she is not certain of her choices and of herself. This is her choice to post under a new name. Why is she so afraid of judgement? Because of others? Several people in this thread have said they are absolutelly fine with rape scenes and fantasies. I think she needs to take a look at herself as to why she is not comfortable psting as her "real" avatar (thought it is still anonymous lol). Some people enjoy spreading feces all over themselves and their partner during sex. Should they be ashamed and keep it secret? I believe most will, because it is just so marginal. Importantly, however, no one is hurting anyone if it is concentual. the very essence of rape, however, is that it is a forced, non consentual act. In the violent rape films, the whole idea is that one is getting enjoyement and sexual gratification from watching other people, namely women who BTW have suffered such real atrocities during events such as war crimes for example, suffer great pain and humiliation. IMO anyone who enjoys seeing that (as a man, or as a woman who is projecting herself into the characters being raped) and gets sexual gratification from it, should seriously question themsleves IMO. People bring up "rough sex" as though there was a comparison with the scenes described by OP. Describe rough sex. The scenes described by OP were pretty precise. "rough sex" is vague, subject to interpretation. Nothing wrong with liking having sex in other ways than "gentle, slow lovemaking on a bed of rose petals" lol. it doesn't mean we come close to playing the role of being violently assaulted. Or that we leave the house and wish our bf to enjoy his rape vids as we kiss him and wish him a good day. Interesting that OP is gone. The point ultimatelly is that she can find happiness, trust and peace within her relationhsip with her SO. I trully hope she does. Personally, I could never call him an SO and I would be out the door in a second. Call me closed minded. Link to comment
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