BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 All I really want is the truth... some way to find it out. From her, or others. Please help. If you don't think she'll give you the true answer (or more accurately, the answer you're looking for), then just let it go. Why? Why do you think I should give up? You know... when you say these things, I feel very very hurt, to the point of... crying... no... I can't describe it. I am looking for something that is the only way to complete my image of the world, to understand what's going on, and you are telling that it's wrong or that I should just "let it go"? WHY? I WANT to know the truth. If you have any idea how I can get the daughter to tell me the truth, please tell me. How should I approach her? What should I avoid talking about? How shall I ask her? Link to comment
Fionnuala Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 If you want the truth, your best bet is to talk to the girl directly. I would just call her up and be honest with her that you were feeling insecure and feel there had been some miscommunication, and find out if she would be interested in trying to work through these things with you. I think approaching it this way may open the lines of communication to find out the "truth" that you are seeking. And the reason I say to let it go if she is unwilling to give you the answer you want is because, regardless of how much you may want to know exactly what, how, why, etc, she is not obligated to give you these answers. You can't force anyone else to give you the answers you want. Sometimes you have no choice but to let it go and move on with your life, doing the best you can to become the best person you can be. You cannot have open communication and learning from someone who is unwilling to do it. Is it ideal? No. But unfortunately, sometimes that's just the way it is. I'm sorry it upsets you, I don't blame you. I have felt the same way before, but in the end I found that I knew the truth on my own. I didn't need to get it from someone else. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 How? Please tell me. I have never done this before. Can you please be more specific on how I should ask... how I should start talking... I am even scared to connect on the internet (messenger etc.) when she is online. I am so scared. How shall I phrase and approach in a way that she will be open towards me and tell me everything honestly, even if she is over with me? Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 she is not obligated to give you these answers. You can't force anyone else to give you the answers you want. I agree with the first sentence, but not with the second. OK, I'm not saying to get the answer by "force", but in some way, indirectly. e.g. by pretending to be a friend of hers and contacting another of her friends via facebook and trying to extract information, or trying to get information through gossip... But even if I did it directly, I am sure... there is some way to do so. I personally have no clue how to start because I am seriously, seriously, seriously sad and confused about myself right now, not because of her but because of ME, because I spent so much time without being able to do anything. not even one attempt... I am... destroyed. seriously. I feel like psychologically starved... I can't move on without the truth. The truth is a kind of "button", or "trigger" that will help me move on in the right direction. Otherwise I'll probably enter a vicious circle and probably do damage... harm... to myself and others. There has to be a way. there has to be some way. there has to be! Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 The only alternative is to do something that will probably close my relationship towards her forever. I am not sure whether I will get the truth by doing so... but at least she will have to create a consistent explanation: I will upload all the evidence I gathered about her other relationships, etc. on facebook, including her conversations with me in which she told me she loves me, and simultaneous conversations in which she says "I love you" to another guy, photos of her with the older man, etc. and ask her to explain everyone what it means. She HAS to explain, since more than 500 people (her friendlist) will be wondering why she did that... she MUST give an explanation if I reveal things publicly. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 If you think that is the way to accomplish your goal then I would say she is right in steering clear of you. That kind of behaviour is completely off the wall and I would suggest you really do some self-reflection because you are in major scary stalker mode...as for that tactic forcing her into talking...I doubt it very much...it would probably throw her into the arms of someone else, certainly not you. Link to comment
Fionnuala Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I agree with CAD. I am not going to give you any advice of how to talk to her, because I don't think it would be in anyone's best interest for you to approach her in any way. The level to which this matters to you is unhealthy. And no, attempting to blackmail her on facebook is not going to get you the "truth." It will just make things worse. Please just leave it alone at least for now. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 >>Otherwise I'll probably enter a vicious circle and probably do damage... harm... to myself and others. Busy, that is a clear sign that what you need here is counseling. This is a girl that you didn't even really date, and you are taking this incident as so serious you might hurt yourself or others? You seriously need to call a counselor right now and start talking about this with them. Life is full of rejection and changes and being a chameleon to please people is not a good goal... Rather than chasing after this, you need to learn how to be flexible and learn how to deal with rejection and change without obsessively chasing the other person or demanding they interact with you or that someone explain their behavior. No one owes you that explanation, and hunting them down like this is just not appropriate. You need to learn who you really are without reference to demanding other people explain their own decisions and choices. Please get some help and make that call tomorrow. You may not know it, but this kind of obsession is not healthy and you need to talk to a counselor before you consider hurting yourself or others. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 >>She HAS to explain, since more than 500 people (her friendlist) will be wondering why she did that... she MUST give an explanation if I reveal things publicly. No, she doesn't have to explain... she can turn around and tell those 500 people that you are a crazy nut stalking her and invading her privacy and that you are making up falsehoods about her since she rejected you. You think this will get the answer you need, but all it will do is enrage her and possibly mean she gets a restraining order against you and/or sues you for libel/slander. If you do this kind of thing, you will only ruin your own reputation. And confirm in lots of people's minds that you need psychiatric help. Please make that call to a doctor tomorrow. You need to get to the bottom of why you feel so compelled to behave this way. You are obviously suffering over this, and you need to talk to a doctor about this and ways to feel at peace when someone chooses not to date you, rather than going into a frenzy to try to be a 'chameleon'. Really, that is not a healthy or normal goal to aspire to. You need to be a person who is happy inside himself, with who he really is, and who doesn't feel compelled to make these kinds of demands from women who rejected you. Everyone gets rejected at some point (and usually many times), and it doesn't mean you need to change into someone different. You just need to find the right person who matches who you are, and keep dating other people until you find that person. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would say she is right in steering clear of you. That kind of behaviour is completely off the wall and I would suggest you really do some self-reflection because you are in major scary stalker mode I would kindly ask you to elaborate on why you think so. This is a girl that you didn't even really date, and you are taking this incident as so serious you might hurt yourself or others? As I repeatedly said, it's not the girl, but the things that happened that I am taking seriously. I feel an ignorant fool when I don't know what is happening around me. How the people around me work. How they deceive me and others. I don't want any relationship with her. I know perfectly well it would be unhealthy. I simply want to know step by step what exactly happened. Life is full of rejection and changes and being a chameleon to please people is not a good goal... I know rejection and all that stuff "happens". But my heart won't be at peace until I know the exact steps of HOW it happened. I'm an investigator. A scientist. Yes, and I'm proud to be one. With regards to the "chameleon", it is not because I want to "please people". Please don't put words into my mouth. It is something I have derived from a long elaborate philosophy and it would be to complex to explain on a forum. Just believe me that it has nothing to do with seeking other peoples' approval, but is more a way of life, an art. It is ME. That's the way I like myself. Liquid but consistent as water. You need to learn who you really are without reference to demanding other people explain their own decisions and choices. I would like to ask you why you think so. My decisions and way of life certainly depend on my knowledge of how other peoples' mind works. If I know that a girl will reject me because someone else is richer than me, then I will... a) not pursue a relationship with such a girl, or b) become richer. it doesn't mean you need to change into someone different. You just need to find the right person who matches who you are, and keep dating other people until you find that person. I totally disagree with the pre-assumptions you use in phrasing this. Does changing one's attitude and behavior mean that one becomes "someone different"? If an ex-boyfriend rejected you because you are crazy and cut your wrists, would you keep dating until you finally found a person who loves you for being crazy and cutting your wrists? If you were rejected because you stink, because you never wash yourself out of personal neglect, would you find someone who would be fine with staying with you even if you never wash yourself? Do you see the point? I am trying to find out what I might have done wrong that is potentially bad for me as well. Someone else's criticism can be used as a measure of feedback for one's self-improvement. That's what I'm looking for. The problem is, I still don't know what exactly were my mistakes. Was it something I couldn't change (such as my disability), or things I did out of pure neglect (for example, the day she came I was totally tired and drowsy, in a insomnia-mood), or was it some unique action that doesn't even correspond to my usual routine behavior? Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I am not questioning your desire to know what went wrong that prevented her from dating you. Most people have those same questions. What i am questioning is your obsession with hunting her down and by any means possible DEMANDING you find out this information, including slandering her to 500 of her friends! She never really dated you, she doesn't owe you information she doesn't want to give you, and to feel justified in harassing her mother and 500 of the people she knows in order to get that information is not healthy at all, and frankly way over the top in terms of acceptable/normal behavior. You need to accept that people are entitled to reject you and make decisions that involve themselves and their own lives without giving you a detailed transcript of every little thing that went into making that decision. She has a right to privacy and to live her own life without someone blasting her to 500 people she knows on the internet. And frankly that kind of thing might get you embroiled in legal action if you slander her in any way if you blast that information to 500 people she knows, or you in any way intimidate her friends/family or look like you're stalking her. You may not recognize it, but your behavior here is obsessive. Please consider getting some counseling to help you understand why hounding someone or their relatives/friends for this kind of information isn't appropriate. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 For your information, I know mental health experts since ages, have relatives who are psychiatrists and work with counselors frequently; it is also part of my own study curriculum. What is important to note is that there is a HUGE difference between the way they (counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc.) talk to patients and the way they talk to friends and colleagues. When communicating with patients, they are bound by a code and normalized social ethics (which they are forced to accept), which includes rules such as those mentioned by you above (the right to privacy, etc.), whereas with friends they speak openly. What I am doing is questioning and debating social ethics, and have several expert friends who do so as well. Scientifically, there is nothing wrong in doing so, and none of them would call it an "obsession". It is a matter of debate and not psychiatric illness. My friends who are in the field usually joke with me about the whole story and say they just can't believe that I am wasting my time over this. But they have no clue either, since the whole story is one case. They also disagree with my idea of asking her to tell me the truth in front of 500 people, but most of those whom I asked for advice told me it is reasonable that I try to understand what went wrong and perhaps also what might be wrong with her. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 What if I did it anonymously? e.g. I create a fake account, add her as a friend, and post all evidence on her wall, the conversation logs in which she says contraddicting things, photos with that older man, etc. What I'm most angry about is that on her online profile she really keeps writing very honest-looking messages, to her friends and everyone else, with status messages that seem to show an ethical and well-mannered mature woman. That is totally contraddictory to the way she actually behaves (or, to the evidence I have). I want to see how she will react and what she will tell everyone as an excuse. I mean... that is hard evidence... including photos with her... she can't say it is "made up". P.S.: also, a Facebook profile is a private page where people communicate with friends. Just because she has 500 friends how can it be legally considered libel/slander? It is simply someone asking her on her private profile page to explain what those things mean. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Anytime you say anything in writing that may not be true and injures an individual's reputation, they can sue for libel, and if you say it verbally, it is slander. So if you post a comment on someone's webpage where it is clearly identifiable that it is she the comment was about, and it injures her reputation, you could be subject to libel/slander laws. Plus it defies logic why you would think posting those things on her wall will make her likely or willing to answer your questions. It will only enrage her. It is obvious you are intent on proving she is dishonest or unethical. But how is it ethical for you to post private conversations with you or others on her board for everyone to see? And if she said she cared about both you and another older man, so what? She could have really liked both of you and never was your girlfriend so if she said she liked both of you, that could have been true and not dishonest. You need to let this go. I agree with your friends that you are wasting your time on this, and i suspect your motivation is more anger and a desire to get back at her for rejecting you or 'prove' she is dishonest. You are no longer part of her life so you need to let this go and move on to someone who does want to be part of your life and focus on pleasing her and making her happy, not trying to find out why some woman long gone is no longer interested. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I am angered by her dishonesty as well, but that's not the main thing that makes me want to find out the truth. It is a catalyst. A kind of "knife in the injury". She used to tell me "You are the only one I love.", and simultaneously told another guy "I love you and I miss you so much." On her Facebook profile (during the last weeks before she came to visit me) she gave the impression through her status messages that she loved "a special person", that she found her "S.O.". But anyone who read it could think that He was being addressed (especially if the girl played the same game on more than two guys). And one of the reasons I was so disturbed the day she visited me was because I read the conversations between her and the other guy. I was simply clueless about what she wanted from me. She kissed me, she dry-humped me, all I could do was watch and wait until she would tell me something more explicitly. Even many weeks after she "dumped" me, she wrote several status messages on her Facebook profile such as "Only one person kisses me on [a specific spot on her body that I also kissed]", or, "I am not promiscuous." Let me explain in detail what I mean to do: - I create a fake facebook account, and make everthing possible to cover my identity - through this fake account, I add her as a friend - through this fake account, I post on her wall, asking, like a friend, "Hey, could you explain to me what you meant when you were here?" and "Could you explain to me what you were doing on this photo?" or something like "Hey! Are you polyamorous? What were you thinking when you wrote this to this guy and that to that other guy?" - note that these are questions and not statements or comments. - if she doesn't answer, 500 people will wonder what those photos and conversations mean, and she will have to provide a general (public) explanation to everyone in order to maintain some form of consistency Link to comment
Fionnuala Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 No, she will not have to respond. She will never HAVE to respond. And most likely, she will just block your fake profile, and her friends will not be "wondering" anything except who this crazy person is harassing her. Sorry, but that is a more likely scenario than what you project. Trying to manipulate someone into giving you an answer is the least effective way to do so. I think you already know what you need to know. You already have what you think is the truth, you're just looking to embarrass her and force her to explain herself. She will probably never be able to explain herself to you sufficiently, and she will most likely never even attempt to if you continue to approach this the way that you are approaching it. You do not want honest, open discussion. You want to force her to own up to what you see as her being dishonest and mistreating you. You keep saying you want to find out what you did wrong so you can change and become a better person. But when you talk about getting her to tell you the "truth," you aren't talking about asking her what about YOU did that caused her to walk away, you're talking about trying to get her to admit that she had two guys at once, lied to you, strung you along, etc. All of which is speculation on your part based on your prior "investigations." You are at least as dishonest as you claim she is, if not more so. It's been said over and over again, but you are much better letting go of this than continuing making up plans to try and manipulate her into saying what you think she should say. It isn't wrong to want to understand so you can better yourself for the future, but the way you are going about it is hurtful, manipulative, and wrong. You are wasting your time. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Agreed, she's going to say, who the heck is this person i don't even know asking personal questions? then she'll block you and that will be the end of it. but you're determined to do this, so knock yourself out. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 No, she will not have to respond. She will never HAVE to respond. This is my logic: Even if she blocks my fake account, she knows that the other 500 people will wonder. If the other 500 people (which include her possible other boyfriend or guys she has strung along) don't get an explanation about the specific details (especially the photos), the others might not believe her anymore or play along with her game. If she cares about her image (I'd say she does), she will explain something that is consistent with the knowledge of all 500 people. That is most likely to be as close as possible to the truth. Or another well-elaborated story, but she will soon find out that it's difficult to project lies onto so many people at the same time. Her mother, her best friends, her acquaintances, everyone will read the evidence material. I think that if she confesses, in a blurt-out manner, she will surely also complain something like "ah, these men! they always [....the possible variables that made her 'dump' me...]!" If by any intuition she feels that I am the author of the fake account, she will surely complain against me publicly, openly saying what I did wrong, why, how, etc. It may not be a "discussion", but it is the only way for me to get her to explicitly express anything about me. How else would you suggest to approach otherwise? You keep saying "let it go", "move on", "walk away". That will lead me to nowhere in understanding what went on in her mind. Nowhere. You are no longer part of her life so you need to let this go and move on to someone who does want to be part of your life and focus on pleasing her and making her happy, not trying to find out why some woman long gone is no longer interested. You are making too many assumptions about what I need. Right now, I don't care about being in a relationship or having a girlfriend. I don't "search" for women. I know there are plenty of women who like me "the way I am" who still send me compliments and sms. If I wanted a happy relationship, I wouldn't be investigating. In that case I would certainly realize that this is a waste of time. No, it's not love I'm looking for. It's truth. To understand how the mind of certain individuals works. To understand whether/how/why they want to deceive us, destroy us and tell lies. To understand whether it's in part our responsibility, what we could have done to produce a better outcome with those specific individuals. What created the turning points. And how to tackle those turning points should they ever happen again in future. I don't care how long ago it happened. I simply want the truth. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 In searching for the so-called truth you are completely losing yourself and becoming the kind of person you are accusing her of being...dishonest and deceitful. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I still don't understand why you say "so-called truth"?! I am pretty sure there is more a reason than just the fact that I "don't know what I want to eat"... do you disagree? I simply want to be a better person (see my other thread about how I perceive self-improvement) but in order to do so I want the truth - howevermuch it may hurt! To put it another way: I hate being lied to. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 One person's opinion of you should not be the all-determining factor in self improvement. If she lied to you then she is not worth bothering with...improve yourself by looking deep within yourself and by considering the opinions of people who have your best interests at heart...people who lie generally do not have the other person's best interests at heart and therefore whatever they say is going to be coloured by their hidden motive. Link to comment
BusyNAbroad Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I don't completely agree with what you say, at least not after having known her for all these years, from our conversations (unless she was fake and told most of the things on purpose just to seduce me) and what our friends in common have told me about her. But despite that... If, as you say, her opinions are not worth bothering with, then what difference would it make anyway if I moved in a way that could harm her reputation? Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I don't completely agree with what you say, at least not after having known her for all these years, from our conversations (unless she was fake and told most of the things on purpose just to seduce me) and what our friends in common have told me about her. But despite that... If, as you say, her opinions are not worth bothering with, then what difference would it make anyway if I moved in a way that could harm her reputation? There is a world of difference between not putting much stock in a particular person's opinion of yourself and going out and trashing their reputation which is an act of vindictiveness. Being vindictive and ruthless is not something people with integrity do. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Don't you see the irony of saying you want to be a better person, while at the same time talking about disguising your identity and trying to ruin her reputation?? If you want to be a better person, rise above this whole thing and just let her go and move on.... Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.