I don't want to feel so needy with him

[pjbouchard]

I've been dating a recently divorced guy for a little under a year and a half. (I'm 25, he's 34). I broke up with him mid June becuase there was no progress in the relationship and it was all me putting in the effort. He was hurt and said he would miss me deeply but acknowledged that he couldn't give himself to me fully like I deserved. (He was going through depression from the bankruptcy he had to declare as a result of the divorce)

 

A month later, in mid July, he called me and asked me if he could take me out for my birthday- that he missed me and wanted to see me. I let him take me out, and we had an awesome time- he was happier in general and said that he was healthier for a relationship and he wanted to try again....that he wanted to take it slow, but slow with progress- not slow without progress like we were before. We agreed and for the next 2 weeks, it was pretty much him that pursued me.

 

Then it slowly started to become me who initiated all the dates (2 a week, usually, which is more than we saw eachother the first time around.) Part of me is happy, because before, we never saw eachother that often, but I'm still kind of irritated that its back to me initiating them. He says it's because he's had no money recently so he CANT initiate dates (we both live with our parents- I'm a single mom, and he's back with them due to the divorce.) I told him it would still be nice that even if he doesn't have the money, to let me know that he wants to see me, but he said that he can't do that because it makes him feel like a loser when he's broke.

 

Do you buy this excuse? or do you think he's just getting lazy cuz he sees that he won me over again? or do you think I'm just being paranoid? I'm just so scared of things going back to the way they used to be. He says that he thinks things are definitely going better this time around but he still doesnt TELL me he cares about me and since he hasnt been initiating the dates, I can't really tell that he wants me- he just agrees to go along with my plans.

 

Usually I'm pretty good at telling if a guy cares by how he treats me, but I'm just so scared that things are going to go back the way they were. When we're together, he's attentive and affectionate and awesome...but he still won't talk about the future or tell me how he feels about me or talk about us at all. If I ask how things are going, he tells me "great" but he never just comes outright and says it. If I suggest something to do and when to do it he says "ok sounds great" but he never asks or suggests it himself? Should I just deal with the fact that this is how he is????? If so, how do I NOT feel insecure in the relationship???

 

I don't want to keep nagging him asking him how he thinks we're doing, but it's almost like that's what it's coming to. How do I feel secure and wanted in a relationship that's going slow with a guy like this?

[annie24]

even if he is broke, he can initiate other sorts of 'dates' - like having a picnic, taking you to a dollar movie showing, free outdoor concerts, etc... there are a lot of free or low-cost events out there. honestly, i think you and your child deserve better. go find a real man who will love you and treat you better than this.

[Zeitgeist]

even if he is broke, he can initiate other sorts of 'dates' - like having a picnic, taking you to a dollar movie showing, free outdoor concerts, etc... there are a lot of free or low-cost events out there. honestly, i think you and your child deserve better. go find a real man who will love you and treat you better than this.

This may be true, but I will say that money is a sore spot for men. Especially the ones who don't have it. Some of us will feel less manly if we can't afford to take a girl out for dinner. This guy is 34 so he's probably especially insecure about not being able to do this. For him taking a girl out to free events or low-cost events may hit his ego really hard, since he may WANT to be able to do something more. Men like to be able to feel like they can provide for a woman. Unless the woman is already filthy rich.

[annie24]

This may be true, but I will say that money is a sore spot for men. Especially the ones who don't have it. Some of us will feel less manly if we can't afford to take a girl out for dinner. This guy is 34 so he's probably especially insecure about not being able to do this.

 

i agree. i definitely agree that money is a sore spot for men. so, she needs to move on. he needs to man up, fix his financial troubles, and leave this woman and child out of it, and not waste their time by giving 'excuses.' blah. she should go find a man who is more stable and reliable. this guy shouldn't be dating right now. he needs to be spending his time either going to school, or looking for better jobs.

[Zeitgeist]

i agree. i definitely agree that money is a sore spot for men. so, she needs to move on. he needs to man up, fix his financial troubles, and leave this woman and child out of it, and not waste their time by giving 'excuses.' blah. she should go find a man who is more stable and reliable. this guy shouldn't be dating right now. he needs to be spending his time either going to school, or looking for better jobs.

Mmm...I hesitate to agree 100% with your advice. Firstly because of your own recent experience which makes you a bit less than objective on this particular subject. I don't mean any offense by it and you could very well be right, but I'm just saying this guy isn't the same guy you dated. Secondly, it sounds like he's at least pretty honest about things. Perhaps the OP could talk with him a bit more about what she needs from him and to reassure him that money is not one of those things. If it is, then I agree that she needs to move on. If after communicating this, he's still not able to get past his own insecurity to take some initiative, then I agree that she needs to leave before she gets too attached.

[annie24]

Mmm...I hesitate to agree 100% with your advice. Firstly because of your own recent events which makes you a bit less than objective on this particular subject. I don't mean any offense by it, but I'm just saying this guy isn't the same guy you dated. Secondly, it sounds like he's at least pretty honest about things. Perhaps the OP could talk with him a bit more about what she needs from him and to reassure him that money is not one of those things. If it is, then I agree that she needs to move on. If after communicating this, he's still not able to get past his own insecurity to take some initiative, then I agree that she needs to leave before she gets too attached.

 

hahaha, true, i am not an objective party right now on this subject.

 

i agree - if how she feels is that way, she should tell him that money is not of importance to her, and that she is ok with 'cheap dates'. it's the thought and planning that counts. if he's still not initiating, etc... then yeah, cut him loose. most of my relationships that went downhill, i noticed at the end, it was always me making the plans for dates, etc... they stopped asking me out. they'd always say yes when i suggested, but they stopped suggesting we go on dates.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Wait a minute...so he will go out with you if you initiate the dates but won't go out with you if he is the one who has to initiate, because he claims he is short of money. Well, who pays for the dates when you initiate? If he is spending money even when you initiate then I don't think the money is the real issue. It is lazyness, getting an ego boost and passive aggressive behaviour. Maybe the reason why his marriage ended is because of lazyness in making a woman feel wanted. I am not buying his excuses. I think it is time for you to move on and find a man who will not just leave it up to you to initiate dates.

[Pixiemeat]

So are you having to pay for all the dates you initiatie? If so I'd really reconsider where this relationship is going. I appreciate that money can be a sore spot for men, especially when he's at the age he is, but if he's depending on you to pay for everything as well it doesn't sound like a fair relationship at all.

[Batya33]

Now I hesitate to use my parents as an example because they've only been married for 52.5 years, but my dad was a poor student for their entire 5 year courtship. But he did take her out for pizza, occasionally chinese food and otherwise they did all that free stuff. Sure it was the 1950s and I am sure money was a sore spot for men back then too. I think money here is mainly the excuse, can't speak for all situations but that's what it sounds like to me.

[pjbouchard]

The thing is, he'll tell me that he wants to see me if I ask him....he'll say something like "of course I want to see you", but then when I confront him about why he wasn't the one to ask me to get together, he'll say "well it's hard for me to suggest anything because I'm broke."( he does have a good job, it's just the bankruptcy thats hurting him from time to time)

 

so how to I decipher if this is the "real thing" or not? Should I tell him that for us to be in a relationship that he needs to make me feel wanted/cared about? is that reasonable? I don't want to sound like I'm nagging. and like I said before, when we are together, he's affectionate, attentive and caring- more than he was the first time around. it's just when we're apart that I start to wonder. . .a lot of it is me being worried that things are going to go back to the way they were. Should I just give it time or should I say something about it now?

[flatwater]

Is this the type of life you want - someone who is basically at the stage of a newly graduated college student - except with more debt and less time to pay it off.

[JadedStar]

Men are awfully sensitive about money. If he is having money problems no doubt he is feeling really down on himself and like a loser, and yes that will affect him asking you out. He won't want to ask you out knowing he doesn't have the money. And most men are not creative so they wno't really think you would like it if they ask you out and go to places that wouldn't cost anything.

 

I say you have one of two options. Either let him go and find a guy who is not in such a bad spot and who will ask you more or be comfortable with the fact that while he is in financial dire straits he will not be comfortable asking you out. It's male pride that is likely keeping him from doing this, not that he doesn't like you.

 

I am not condoing this male pride but understand it. Financial problems are way up there as far as being stressors for people, way up there with divorce and he has gone thru that one too.

 

I think he has been completely honest with you about his finances and why he doesn't like asking you out. thereforee you either deal with it as he has explained the reasoning or find someone who isn't in this spot.

[pjbouchard]

He actually said he'd love to be able to invite me over to watch a movie but he can't because he lives with his parents (he moved back in after the divorce, and hasnt been able to afford his own place yet cuz of the bankruptcy). The last couple times we've hung out it's either me suggesting we go to the park or just for a drive or me taking him out for a drink or two. I asked him last time we hung out why he doesn't initiate the dates anymore, and he said it was because he had a rough couple weeks with family birthdays and a laywer bill (he gets paid bi-weekly). I told him that I would really love it that ,even if he doesnt have the money, if he would at least tell me he'd like to see me and said "I've been somewhat broke and it's not like I can tell you to come over and I'd feel like a loser asking you to go to the park or something" I told him that I would find it very sweet if he did and he was like "No, I'm a guy, I can't do it."

I just want to know that he cares about me and that we WILL be able to make progress and grow...but he's not a "words" kind of man either and doesn't really feel comfortable expressing his feelings unless he is directly asked about them. How am I supposed to know how he feels and if we're getting better if I don't ask? (and then, concequently I'll feel like a nag and like I'm pressuring him)

[JadedStar]

Take him at his word. He is telling you he can't do it, i.e. he won't do it. His pride has been severely compromised with his money situation and he just wouldn't feel comfortable asking you out to the park or some other free date. In his mind that would make him cheap, and at this point it doesn't matter if he is right or wrong because this is what he feels and thinks. I don't see it changing significantly so you really have to decide can you deal with him as is, or not.

[pjbouchard]

Take him at his word. He is telling you he can't do it, i.e. he won't do it. His pride has been severely compromised with his money situation and he just wouldn't feel comfortable asking you out to the park or some other free date. In his mind that would make him cheap, and at this point it doesn't matter if he is right or wrong because this is what he feels and thinks. I don't see it changing significantly so you really have to decide can you deal with him as is, or not.

 

 

I understand that he can't...and honestly, I don't care that he can't spend money on me and that he's sensetive about it. I love this man- that's not what matters to me. But how am I supposed to feel secure and that things are going well (i.e. "better this time around") when he CANT put in that kind of effort and on top of that, he's not the type of guy to express his feelings? (And I'm not the type to keep asking because I don't want to feel like a nag or like I'm pressuring him)

[JadedStar]

I understand that he can't...and honestly, I don't care that he can't spend money on me and that he's sensetive about it. I love this man- that's not what matters to me. But how am I supposed to feel secure and that things are going well (i.e. "better this time around") when he CANT put in that kind of effort and on top of that, he's not the type of guy to express his feelings? (And I'm not the type to keep asking because I don't want to feel like a nag or like I'm pressuring him)

 

It's one of those things that even tho you are perfectly ok with things and just want him to show he cares he just is not able to do that at this time. That is why again I have to say its a choice you have to make. I understand your point and it is extremely valid, but he is so down in the dumps over his situation that I don't see it improving until his money woes improve.

[annie24]

well, just a question - what are you getting out of this relationship?

[pjbouchard]

well, just a question - what are you getting out of this relationship?

 

When we're together, it's incredible...before anything, we're best friends...and we have great chemistry and have fun doing anything together. It's hard because in some ways, I can tell that he cares...it's just that he doesnt show me he cares in the WAY that I want him to show me he cares. Does this make any sense????

[Batya33]

watch the feet - what he does - not the lips - what he says - unless he says "i don't want a relationship right now" -

 

It sounds like he can't be your best friend right now because he has too much going on in his life to be able to give to you in that way.

[pjbouchard]

So I brought up to him today that I feel like since he's won me back and his needs in the relationship have been met, that hes stopped trying to nuture the relationship and hasn't made me feel wanted/cared about. That it would be great if he could work on making me feel cared about- that he hasn't been initiating contact and hasnt been telling me how he feels, so I haven't had much to work with.

 

He got into how he can't suggest things to do because he's broke, and then regarding him not telling me how he feels about me, he said "everyone is different. it flows from some people and doesnt from others. it's something that cant be forced and must come naturally." then he said "I feel like you will never be happy unless I tell you I love you."

 

I said that we got back together with the prospect of progress in the relationship- not immediately jumping into love, but growing, so every bit of emotion/feeling that he shows toward me I value and treasure. Then he said "If things don't go at your speed or the way you want, you get upset." I told him that I'm not upset. . . just trying to be honest with him and then told him that I will work more at looking into his actions not is words. Then he cut the conversation off and said he had to get back to work.

 

4 hours later, he texts me something like nothing happened!!!

 

I dont know whats going on or what to do or how to act. All I want is for us to grow closer. I want him to be able to open his heart up to me and not keep holding me at arm's length. I need a plan of action here though. Do I continue suggesting plans and tell him how I feel about him? or should I let him set the pace? I have no clue! Help!!

[annie24]

what if you just kind of backed off the next few months. do your own thing, let him initiate plans, calls, texts. get involved in some club, mother's group, take up a sport or take dance or yoga lessons. get more involved in your life again, and step back and see if he starts contributing more to your relationship. evaluate after a few months if you really want to be with him or not. maybe if you back off, he will make more of an effort, especially if you are just happier with your own life. if he is still distant, then you need to determine if you really want a distant partner.

[junebirthday]

I have to respond to this because I fall into this trap all too often. My ex definitely loved me, but he was afraid of commitment so much so that he constructed walls. In your case, it seems the same. The money is a wall. The living with parents is a wall. Being recently divorced is a wall. Sure, it's part of his reality...but when someone deeply loves you and wants to be with you, there are no roadblocks that can't be overcome.

 

Are you nagging? Yup. Say something ONCE and let it go. You are trying to control him so that his personality fits your fantasy of what SHOULD be. He's not fitting it. You either move on, or you accept that he will not be an active participant in this relationship.

 

I know that sounds harsh pj, but it's a matter of getting real with yourself, not him.

 

T

[pjbouchard]

I absolutely agree with the last 2 posters. I need to step back and let HIM set the slow pace that he asked for. To not nag about the way I want things to be, but to just let them happen and give them time to happen.

 

So here's just one last question:

 

When he asks me (because I know he will) "whats wrong?" or "are you mad at me?" or "why are you distant?" what do I say????

[junebirthday]

Say: "stop projecting." because by asking you what's wrong, or blaming you for being distant, he's once again putting all the control in your lap. He's not taking responsibility for his part of the relationship.

[annie24]

When he asks me (because I know he will) "whats wrong?" or "are you mad at me?" or "why are you distant?" what do I say????

 

I'd tell him that he said, "everyone is different. it flows from some people and doesnt from others. it's something that cant be forced and must come naturally," so now you are trying to give him space to feel the way he wants to feel naturally.