Why does infidelity automatically end it?

[mrmaximum]

I think that this is turning into a stereotypical situation directed at males. I would like to point out that women does this as well as men.

 

Although I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see where Gracelove was coming from. I’ve been appalled at the amount of men I’ve encountered (lockeroom stories if you will) that would cheat (or have cheated) if they knew or thought they could get away with it. However, there are still quite a few men out there that are trustworthy and it is one's responsibility to seek them out, yeah? If we where to accept the paradigm that all men will cheat at one point in time or another, then I would surmise that it may not be too unreasonable to assume that all women do not cheat. All one must do is look at some of the posts here to know that this isn’t true. Although we all have to make our own rules in life and follow where our heart leads for our own protection, we must be careful when we brush with broad strokes. Not all men are cheaters and not all women are angels as CS90453, myself and a host of others can attest.

[cs90453]

Thanks for elaborating. I just wanted to point out that we're talking about cheaters in general and didn't want to split hairs that's all. I agree about the locker room talks and you're right about it being wrong. Sorry if I came off as being defensive everyone.

[Ben10]

There was another thread on here that got me thinking about infidelity.

 

Let me start by saying that I have been cheated on by nearly every single person I have been with, including the father of my now 5-year old son.

 

My father cheated on my mother, numerous times. They are still together and doing better than ever.

 

My question is: Why is everyone always rushing to tell the cheatee to leave?

 

Because no good will EVER come by staying with a cheater. That is unless you are happy to settle for someone that isn't trustworthy.

 

 

Look at it this way: Being married is a huge commitment. People don't always want to walk away from their marriages. That being said, infidelity hurts. It's awful. And what if children are involved?

 

The adulterer is the one that broke the committment.

 

I tried to stay in my M for my kids. But we only get one life to live and life with a cheater is no life at all, so I divorced my wife. I'm not going to look at her face every day for the rest of my life and look into the eyes of a cheater. I am not going to be with someone that I have to wonder who she wants to boff next.

 

 

Too often I think we rush to yell, "Divorce! Divorce!!!" Everyone is disposable nowadays.

 

Cheaters are disposable, spouses in general are not.

 

 

Everyone always says, "You're worth more than that. Why do you put up with that???"

 

 

Yes...and???....

 

 

If your partner is loud and obnoxious? Leave them.

 

Thats not betrayal.

 

 

If they cheat once? Leave them.

 

You betcha

 

 

If they yell at you? Leave them.

 

Thats not betrayal.

 

 

If they aren't 100% loving and supportive of your decisions? Leave, because you DESERVE better.

 

well thats the cheaters' excuse right from their own handbook. "they don't fulfill 100% of my needs, so I cheated".

 

 

In my parents' case, I can honestly say neither one of them would have been any better off had they divorced. Not at all. And plenty of people who divorce or separate end up more miserable than before.

 

How do you know? I don't know who cheated on who, but lets say your mother cheated on your father. He may have decided to forgive, but he aint ever gonna forget. He may accept the status quo and decide to live out the rest of his life just settling for keeping the family together, all while bottling up resentment over what your mother did to him. What kind of life is that? (keep in mind I don't know the story, this is just an example)

 

 

I hope you don't think I am advocating infidelity or staying with an abusive partner, but I think we should start encouraging people to WORK ON IT first rather than just abandon ship

 

The cheater already abandoned ship in a sense. cheating is something nobody should have to put up with. If someone wants to be a cuckold, however, that is their own problem and choice.

 

 

- especially if there are kids involved.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Its only sad when kids are involved. Someone shouldn't have to stay with a cheater and be miserable for the rest of their lives because the other spouse/partner didn't give a crap enough about the family to keep it in his pants/keep her legs crossed to other people.

[Ben10]

I am not married/no kids but when I hear about a marriage where young children/teenagers are involved I do not automatically say "leave him/her" if there is cheating. It really depends. Honestly, I really wouldn't want to give any advice either way if I were asked - if kids were involved.

 

But, if physical abuse was involved, then I would have a knee jerk reaction to leave the marriage.

 

I was married and divorced my wife for cheating. We have two kids under 8.

 

I am not going to be miserable the rest of my life because she couldn't keep from spreading her legs to another man.

 

SHE did this to the kids, not me.

[law1204]

Most people view cheating as The Unforgivable Sin (I noticed men more than women). As in, anything else can be forgiven BUT THAT. (I mean, lots of women put up with a man that will break their arms but a man can't put up with his wife going out on him. Interesting, seems more of an ego thing to me.)

 

Concurrently, people view cheaters as "someone who abandoned ship" already or that they ARE dishonest, disloyal as people.

 

The problem with this is that cheatees have decided to define the cheater's feelings and motivations *for* them. It's somehow acceptable to label someone or define them as a person or assume their thoughts and feelings *for* them. I think that is abusive. I think it is wrong to say, "You did X because YOU ARE.." or "You did X because you believe/want to/think..."

 

Why not just listen to what they have to say? Might be pretty insightful. Anything else your wife/husband DOES does not necessarily define them as a person, especially their mistakes. Why does only THIS one define someone as a person?

 

As for "never being able to get past the pain" and "always seeing cheater stamped on her forehead," some of those type comments strike me as fairly pathological or obsessive, sorry. Don't mean to slam anyone on that but never being able to forgive, and I mean TRULY forgive, which excludes forehead stamps, is also a character flaw in my book.

 

I guess I say all of the above because in the interest of full disclosure I was a CS. But my H did a lot of things to hurt and abandon me which I think were at least as bad as infidelity. I really do. I am not saying so to justify my behavior, or to blame him for MY mistake, but is being a verbal abuser with an addiction problem less bad than being a one-time cheater?

[chasey]

Most people view cheating as The Unforgivable Sin (I noticed men more than women). As in, anything else can be forgiven BUT THAT. (I mean, lots of women put up with a man that will break their arms but a man can't put up with his wife going out on him. Interesting, seems more of an ego thing to me.)

 

Exactly...

When you really look at different relationships there are alot of things out there that really are alot worse or at least equivalent to cheating. Some people forgive these and some people don't. Just like some people can forgive cheating and some cannot.

[mrmaximum]

Exactly...

When you really look at different relationships there are alot of things out there that really are alot worse or at least equivalent to cheating. Some people forgive these and some people don't. Just like some people can forgive cheating and some cannot.

 

Why men seem to take it worse than women seem to. On another site someone mentioned something and his hypthesis does seem to carry some weight (not saying it's right, but I think it does shed some light on the subject). Now I will never minimize the feeling of finding out that your husband fathered another child outside of your relationship, this hurts I'm willing to bet. However, a woman never has to wonder if her little ones are hers. All guys have is the words of their wives/gfs that the children that they fall in love with and nurture are theirs and in some cases, their words aren't worth a plug nickel.

 

Just from a guys POV, if you cheat on me, how do I know that you won't pull the whole Alpha male sex, Beta male upbringing dealio on me? Your kids are your kids as a woman and no one can take that from you, but as a man, some people have woken up to some very painful truths. Just something to think about.

[Mythical_Suicide]

I always said two things would cause me to automatically end a relationship, Cheating and Abuse. Those are the two things I will NOT put up with. My ex cheated on me once and I forgave him but our relationship was never the same after it happened and really wasn't worth staying in it even though we had a child together.. Why? Because I was unhappier with him than I was without him because there was no sense of trust while together.

[george237]

Look I think if you are married and you have children then yes you should seek counceling. I take marriage very seriously and I think you should give it a good chance to make it work. If you are engaged or dating I think you should leave them. There is no commitment there and it is better to walk away.

[tangi39]

[quote=law1204;2553397

As for "never being able to get past the pain" and "always seeing cheater stamped on her forehead," some of those type comments strike me as fairly pathological or obsessive, sorry. Don't mean to slam anyone on that but never being able to forgive, and I mean TRULY forgive, which excludes forehead stamps, is also a character flaw in my book.

 

QUOTE]

 

Law, I am actually a very forgiving person.

Cheating to me is not just about the act itself but the things that go along with it. The betrayal, the lying and breaking trust, etc. - THAT is what I'd have a hard time forgiving. I could lie and say "I could get over it and move on easily " but I know in my heart I don't know if I could move beyond it. I was just trying to be honest. It's easy to talk but if it happened to you, you might be singing a different tune. If you could forgive it easily , hey great. But I know I couldn't- We are very different in that regard, but that's just how I personally feel- You may see that as a character flaw, I don't. I hope you never have to face that kind of gut wrenching pain.

I understand that people make mistakes, but if someone knowingly puts their marriage in jeopardy, they need realize there will be consequences.

One of those is dealing with their partners response. Some may take it better than others. But the partner did nothing wrong- they need to deal with it however they see fit.

I don't think anyone was trying to say- "If someone has an affair they are forever labeled as a horrible worthless person who should be permanently ostrosized from everyone. " No. I think people are merely expressing how they personally would feel and how they personally would need to handle it.

I think the majority of people saying they "wouldn't be able to forgive" are just saying they'd need to let their spouse go for that reason.

If you are an advocate of "TRUE" forgiveness, understand then that letting go of someone may be the the only chance the cheater has of ever receiving that. If your way of healing would be different, fine, but I don't think that makes other ways "obsessive" or "wrong".

[Ben10]

Look I think if you are married and you have children then yes you should seek counceling. I take marriage very seriously and I think you should give it a good chance to make it work.

 

Well in a situation like this, one spouse did NOT take marriage seriously and cheated.

 

And what is to work out with a cheater? Only thing you'd be working on is settling for much less in a spouse than you could have with someone else.

 

In my opinion, it would be settling for a cheater just for the sake of the kids.

 

As a son, I'd be pretty damn depressed if I ever found out one of my parents stayed in the marriage if the other cheated and pissed away most of their life for me. I'd want them to be happy.

 

 

If you are engaged or dating I think you should leave them. There is no commitment there and it is better to walk away.

 

 

Are you married? If so, have you ever been cheated on by your spouse?

[Ben10]

As for "never being able to get past the pain" and "always seeing cheater stamped on her forehead," some of those type comments strike me as fairly pathological or obsessive, sorry. Don't mean to slam anyone on that but never being able to forgive, and I mean TRULY forgive, which excludes forehead stamps, is also a character flaw in my book.

 

 

Law, I am actually a very forgiving person.

Cheating to me is not just about the act itself but the things that go along with it. The betrayal, the lying and breaking trust, etc. - THAT is what I'd have a hard time forgiving. I could lie and say "I could get over it and move on easily " but I know in my heart I don't know if I could move beyond it. I was just trying to be honest. It's easy to talk but if it happened to you, you might be singing a different tune.

 

Law was the cheating spouse, that is why she isn't singing a different tune. She is defending cheaters because she is one.

 

 

I understand that people make mistakes

 

Cheating isn't a mistake.

 

 

but if someone knowingly puts their marriage in jeopardy, they need realize there will be consequences.

One of those is dealing with their partners response. Some may take it better than others. But the partner did nothing wrong- they need to deal with it however they see fit.

I don't think anyone was trying to say- "If someone has an affair they are forever labeled as a horrible worthless person who should be permanently ostrosized from everyone. "

 

I think that was in response to what I said. I divorced my xW because thats all I did see when I looked at her......a cheater.

 

did I see her as a horrible person? you bet. worthless? to me, you bet.

 

Do cheaters need to be permanently ostrosized from everyone? Not necessarily. But then again, if I ever known a potential mate to have cheated in the past, I wouldn't give them much consideration as a faithful potential mate.

 

 

No. I think people are merely expressing how they personally would feel and how they personally would need to handle it.

 

Yes, that was basically the gist of it when I made the "cheater stamped accross her forehead" comment.

 

 

I think the majority of people saying they "wouldn't be able to forgive" are just saying they'd need to let their spouse go for that reason.

 

Correct, however...I don't see it as letting the cheater go for that reason, I see it as the cheatee freeing themselves.

[tangi39]

Correct, however...I don't see it as letting the cheater go for that reason, I see it as the cheatee freeing themselves.

 

That was what I Meant, Ben.

 

I think I would handle it and feel very similarly to you.

Hopefully, I will never have find out.

 

I thought it was important to stress that there really is no "perfect" way to handle a situation like this. And that everyone has to do as they see fit.

[mrmaximum]

I always said two things would cause me to automatically end a relationship, Cheating and Abuse. Those are the two things I will NOT put up with. My ex cheated on me once and I forgave him but our relationship was never the same after it happened and really wasn't worth staying in it even though we had a child together.. Why? Because I was unhappier with him than I was without him because there was no sense of trust while together.

 

There are those that can get past it and then there are those that simply can't. Trust is a very 'fickle' thing and really shouldn't trifled with. Most adults know that if you go down the infidelity path you are taking a major swing against your marriage and to be honest, does one truly know if it can survive?

 

Look I think if you are married and you have children then yes you should seek counceling. I take marriage very seriously and I think you should give it a good chance to make it work. If you are engaged or dating I think you should leave them. There is no commitment there and it is better to walk away.

 

I'm sure there are people that do all that they can once the affair comes to light, EVERYTHING that the BS has asked them to do, but if the BS simply can't get over it, then they owe it to everyone involved to leave. I've heard it said that the best gift you can give your children is two loving and caring parents. In this case, example isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing. Here is a truth that so many may fail to recognize and that is that there isn't a fix for every relationship and counseling isn't a magic bullet.

 

 

Law, I am actually a very forgiving person.

Cheating to me is not just about the act itself but the things that go along with it. The betrayal, the lying and breaking trust, etc. - THAT is what I'd have a hard time forgiving.... If your way of healing would be different, fine, but I don't think that makes other ways "obsessive" or "wrong".

 

I'm with you on this one too Tangi. Sometimes with people we actually want to give the WS a break and heal the wounds to the relationship. But it's the thought that they constantly may have kept you in the dark to maintain the charade which hardly shows that they have your best interests at heart. Like Ben says, it's a choice, a series of choices that must be made in succesion to an outcome which could blow the relationship wide open. Some just can't get over the idea that their wants and needs where pushed aside so readily, or the 'pictures in their heads' despite their best intentions.

 

This is why I say it's a gamble, MAYBE your SO will forgive a ONS, MAYBE your they will forgive your long term affair, MAYBE they will forgive a useless fling with a co-worker....but you don't know that and there is only one way to find out. We've all seen it folks, horrible car accidents where the car is mangled driver walks away and then some strange ones where the driver is killed on impact but the car doesn't seem quite so messed up. One may forgive a string of affairs, others will give the heave ho after a ONS. Why take the chance? Are there not easier roads?

[law1204]

I always said two things would cause me to automatically end a relationship, Cheating and Abuse. Those are the two things I will NOT put up with. My ex cheated on me once and I forgave him but our relationship was never the same after it happened and really wasn't worth staying in it even though we had a child together.. Why? Because I was unhappier with him than I was without him because there was no sense of trust while together.

 

You would be surprised what you might put up with when it comes to abuse. There are a lot of different kinds, and not all of them are overt. Many women who are in abusive relationships don't even really realize that the reason they feel so utterly bad, or even suicidal, is because their spouse or bf is emotionally or mentally abusing them.

 

All they know is that they are miserable. A lot of them don't even attribute it to their abuser, they blame themselves.

 

In fact, living with a covert abuser, who can often exhibit what is called "crazymaking behavior" can cause a woman to do things completely out of character for her.

[law1204]

I hope you never have to face that kind of gut wrenching pain.

 

There are a lot of different causes for gut-wrenching pain, that I do know. I would forgive the person who caused it as long as I knew they would stop causing it and understood that it was hurting me. Given a choice between what my H did to me and infidelity on his part, I would have picked him cheating on me any day of the week.

 

I understand that people make mistakes, but if someone knowingly puts their marriage in jeopardy, they need realize there will be consequences.

 

If cheating is a symptom of a problem or problems, wouldn't the person or persons who were responsible for the original cause be held to that as well? I don't believe cheating happens in a vacuum. Can cheating in fact be a consequence? I know it's horribly politically incorrect to suggest such a thing. But I think it needs to be asked anyway.

 

As for consequences, I don't believe that adult can "punish" another adult in an adult relationship. It destroys the dynamic and can turn things into a parent-child thing. Which is WAY unhealthy.

 

I don't think anyone was trying to say- "If someone has an affair they are forever labeled as a horrible worthless person who should be permanently ostrosized from everyone. "

 

Uh, I think that looks very closely like Ben10's position here.

[avman]

Members are reminded to be respectful of each other when stating their viewpoint.

[law1204]

She is defending cheaters because she is one.

 

Neither one of those things is correct.

 

I don't see it as letting the cheater go for that reason, I see it as the cheatee freeing themselves.

 

Let me ask this way: Why would the cheater want to do that?

 

Avman, is that better?

 

--Law

[orangesoda]

For me, you can never, ever, in any language, under any circumstances, justify cheating.

 

If things are so horrendously bad, you can always leave the relationship. If you're not married, breakup. If you're married, get a divorce.

[law1204]

I thought it was important to stress that there really is no "perfect" way to handle a situation like this. And that everyone has to do as they see fit.

 

Tangi, I like the way you put this last statement. Everyone does have to do what they see is the correct thing for them.

 

My position is to try and make people question how they "see fit." Mira Kirshenbaum, a well respected therapist, said there is no healing without understanding. I think cheatees do themselves a great disservice by not trying to understand the reasons why they got cheated on - because a greater understanding brings more healing. I believe that, I experienced that.

 

link removed

 

I guess my overall view is, "It's Really Not What You Think."

[law1204]

If things are so horrendously bad, you can always leave the relationship. If you're not married, breakup. If you're married, get a divorce.

 

In my situation, I didn't want to leave the relationship. I loved him and I love him still, even when things WERE horrendously bad.

[mrmaximum]

For me, you can never, ever, in any language, under any circumstances, justify cheating.

 

If things are so horrendously bad, you can always leave the relationship. If you're not married, breakup. If you're married, get a divorce.

 

Temporarily move out? Know someone who did it. She got the message real quick. So we want the relationship to go on, but there is a critical problem present. For things to proceed we must deal with the problem, once again, when does it ever make sense to try to put out a burning building with gasoline? When does it ever make sense to complicate matters in a possibly terminal way when when you are desperately trying to rectify things?

[law1204]

When does it ever make sense to complicate matters in a possibly terminal way when when you are desperately trying to rectify things?

 

The book I posted earlier has seventeen reasons for affairs and the psychology behind each one. They all make sense in some way.

[Ben10]

Given a choice between what my H did to me and infidelity on his part, I would have picked him cheating on me any day of the week.

 

Well of course. Thats because you are a cheater and want to believe you have the high road here.

 

 

If cheating is a symptom of a problem or problems, wouldn't the person or persons who were responsible for the original cause be held to that as well?

 

Who said cheating is a sypmtom of a problem or problems? Sometimes cheating is spawned because the cheater has horrible character.

 

And in the cases where someone may see it as a symptom of a problem, it takes two to maintain a healthy relationship. But the decision to cheat is yours and yours alone. Your H is not to blame for your decision to gratify yourself with another man.

 

 

I don't believe cheating happens in a vacuum. Can cheating in fact be a consequence? I know it's horribly politically incorrect to suggest such a thing. But I think it needs to be asked anyway.

 

Of course you feel that way, you are a cheater.

 

 

Uh, I think that looks very closely like Ben10's position here.

 

Uh, I think I addressed that as well. I'll admit, it is exactly my position.

[Ben10]

Neither one of those things is correct.

 

It sure is correct.

 

 

Let me ask this way: Why would the cheater want to do that?

 

We weren't talking about a cheater doing the letting go. We were talking about the CHEATEE doing the dumping so they can find someone else.