Friend of over 7 years has always been in love with me

[Raph]

I didn't miss that bit actually I didn't even bother going indepth on it as it wasn't a vital/central part of my argument, and you did fill in the gap But to be honest, I think by year 10 he should be giving up. Hell, most people would've a long time before 7 years

 

Why prolong the "suffering"? (I'm not saying she's taking advantage of him, by the way.)

 

What I am saying is that if anon333 wants to deal with it, while still remaining friends, she has to ignore the fact that he likes her at all - after going straight to the bottom of the issue with him and telling him to change his perspective instead of telling him to "stop loving" her. Telling him to stop just wouldn't work. Some emotions you can't just automatically shut off a feeling - you can supress it with another feeling though.

 

... Otherwise the other thing she could do is just blank him out of her life.

 

Either way, he'd have to come to terms with reality, whether he waits his whole life or is blanked out or has a good long conversation attacking the problem directly without making him "stop loving" her.

[Anon333]

Jettison, I agree. I think the relationships has been a series of ups and downs, but I think the big waves were more in the beginning. He has learned how to live his life with me in the back of his head for the most part. I guess we both adapted to the friendship and are still learning how to, but for the most part, all the tough things (besides maybe me getting married) have happened.

 

He's seen me with other men, seen me flirt with other guys, has been hurt by this situation many times, but I do think he has chosen that having me in his life is worth those times of jealousy and hurt. Because there are far more times when he calls me up after a hard day and I easily make him feel better just by listening. After 7 years, I think he knows the possibilities of what may happen in the future. I even reminded him yesterday when I talked to him, saying "what if I get married?", "What if I am with someone who doesnt want me to talk to you?", all the scenerios that are possible. And he has been fully aware of those things for a long time. We have already gone through periods of not talking for a few months, or him not calling me while I date someone else. This is how he has chosen to deal with this friendship....

 

I have had boyfriends that cheated on me and verbally abused me, I have had my best friend sleep with my boyfriend, I have had a mother who was careless with me when she got remarried, and I have had a father who I have never been that close with, and a step dad that I despised when I grew up. To me, I chose to lose my best friend, and I also ended up breaking up with the cheating boyfriends, the family relations are works in progress and always will be. This friend of mine is also a work in progress that isnt the healthiest relationship out there, but to me (and him)it is a meaningful one. Maybe I am just repeating myself....But to get back to the topic, I really do think we both know what we are in for with this relationship, and I think after 7 years, most of the difficult part of the relationship has come and gone.

[Anon333]

Raph, what if he would be miserable the rest of his life without me...This is what he is positive of, and tells me. He would rather suffer through jealous twinges if I am with someone else, than to have me out of his life for good. He swears that his feelings for me would never go away, and if I stopped being his friend he'd be miserable. I know in most cases this is not true. I know I have felt that way about boyfriends etc...But I really dont think this is like most cases. He is not just comparing me to all the girls he has met since he met me, he is comparing me to all the girls from his past to the present. If he ever happened to find someone he felt the same way about, I dont think it would matter if I was his loose friend or not. But it would matter if he still never met anyone and was miserable not having me as a friend. Right?

[grymoire]

Whatever the situation may be there is one good thing that I am consistently seeing here. It is the fact that Anon333 keeps telling him that they both can never be together or questions like 'what if i get married?'.. some thing that reminds him of the reality of the situation. That is admirable of her.

 

Jettison has a point about what's the big difference between 7 years or 10 years... It does seem to make sense... I can think whatever hurt that could be caused would have already been caused. What I am amazed though is the fact that this guy has decided to persist even after such a long time. This is probably the first time I am coming accross this type of situation..

 

Anon333 seems to have had many bad relationships... It is soooo UNFORTUNATE that some of her ex boyfriends have been cheaters and yet she doesn't seem to want the one guy that has been loving her for years and years and years..... Oh well..... Life can be strange some times..

[Anon333]

Grymoire. Yes I know it is strange. I think that is what angers him. He sometimes cant understand why I have no interest in him after I dated so many losers and he loves me so much. But I cant change the way I feel. I wish I could. But I'm not attracted to him at all. It is not that he is ugly, it is just who he is in a whole is just not someone I would ever want to be intimate with. Its too bad.

 

I do think this situation is unbelievably strange. Maybe it is strange because of the type of person he is. That is why I tend to believe maybe even if he never met me he would never have had a serious relationship. ANd its why I tend to believe that if I stopped being friends with him, he may very well be miserable forever. It blows my mind that he has these feelings for me like this. I usually tell him it is so strange, and that maybe he just chose me randomly to love this much, thats how I feel sometimes. That he needed some type of idealized thing in his head to love. ANd he swears everything is reality and it is only me. I dont know....very very strange...But I tend to forget that part when we are just talking as friends.

[grymoire]

You know... this is starting to resemble the typical Nice Guy thing. "I loved her so much but she always wants the Jerk".. Even I have asked that question many times in this forum. But like you said nothing can be done if there is no attraction.

 

Can you explain this part a little bit? I didn't understand:

 

 

 

what do you mean by that?

 

And I still stand by what I said earlier. I do not think he actually loves you... I think he is just obsessed with you...

 

I have had some strange things happen in my life as well.. One girl (she is actually my elder sister's friend) developed a crush on me when she first saw me in 1989. She sort of became obsessed with me right from that point and it still continues. Can you believe it? She is now married and has a kid but she has never stopped loving me.

[jettison]

Anon,

 

Addressing your issues about marriage and "the other guy". Think about Sunshine's situation. She kind of lead some guy on, willingly, for a long time because he provider her some emotional comfort when she was lonely, but she never respected him. In fact, once she was married, her respect level for him plummeted still further. He became unneccesary because he no longer supplied a service to her... to quench her lonlieness and feed her ego. She had a husband for that now.

 

When my 10 year and I broke up, I told her that I would always try to be in her life somehow, even if it were very hard to do. And when my new love became jealous, I wrote her an email that basically told her, "No offense, and you're a wonderful person, and you've been great post breakup, but no more phonecalls. No more emails. I'm in love with someone else, I want it to work, and it can't work otherwise. You've done nothing wrong, but I just can't communicate with you now."

 

She never responded. I'm sure that she was hurt. It hurt me just to write that to her. But really, any time you have a close bond with the opposite sex, you take that risk. I am a firm believer that if you're not enjoying friends of the opposite sex then you're missing out a lot in life, but the asterick is always present. If you have a jealous partner, or an all-consuming partner that wants ownership of you, and you agree to their parameters, then all other relationships fall by the wayside. That's just reality, and that's just life. We all know it.

 

So, whether it's this 7 year guy, or someone else, those are the unwritten rules, and they are the same for everyone. It's a level playing field though because we all live by those rules. I have a friend who I've know for about the same time... 7 years. We had a little, minor romance when we first met, when my girlfriend at the time was out of the country, studying abroad. So, it was never "consumated", but we had a bond, and we knew it.

 

When my girlfriend came back, I ended up having to tell her "I just can't know you anymore. I'm very sorry" once my girlfriend told me in very explicit terms, "It's her or me." The new woman cried on the phone with me when I told her the news. It sucked. I felt awful for months. But to be fair to my GF, I couldn't have that emotional attachment with her. In any case, we became friends again later down the line. She even fell in love again, had other boyfriends, etc.

 

Now, a full 7 years later, we're still in touch, and we're both, technically, single. She wrote me an email recently telling me that she loved me. I think it's been too long for anything to happen again, but we obviously have a bond that could end again if either one of us got really serious about someone else. That's life. She holds me hand. Throws her arms around me. Tells me "I love you". Wants me to sleep over.... all those things that you could do with the opposite sex as long as you don't currently have a significant, study partner. Obviously, the whole dynamic goes straight out the window if either of us gets serious about someone else.

[grymoire]

Addressing your issues about marriage and "the other guy". Think about Sunshine's situation. She kind of lead some guy on, willingly, for a long time because he provider her some emotional comfort when she was lonely, but she never respected him. In fact, once she was married, her respect level for him plummeted still further. He became unneccesary because he no longer supplied a service to her... to quench her lonlieness and feed her ego. She had a husband for that now.

 

Just being curious.... Has Sunshine posted these details in her post? And no offence to Anon but how is Anon's situation different from Sunshine's situation? Why do you consider that Sunshine used that guy but Anon did not use her friend?

 

I really need help... especially with that last question. If you can explain it in depth it will clear lot of my own questions.

 

Also, there is a good chance that Anon also does not respect her friend.

[Anon333]

Grymoire, it is just that he is not the right person for me. Little things about him add up. I cant put my finger on one thing, but they are alot. I am not physically attracted to him for one, even though he is an okay looking guy. And I am not attracted to his personality on a boyfriend level either. I feel more caring towards him, and supportive of him than anything. I think he comes off much differently to other woman. I think who he is with me might be different because he cares about me so much. Well, you situation with your sister's friend does sound like another odd situation. Its good she is married, but it is similarly strange she never stopped loving you.

[Anon333]

Grymoire, I dont believe I am stringing him along since I have dated plenty other men right in front of him and told him their is no chance for us. I also said there may be apossibilty in the future I meet someone else and he may not like me talking to you. That is something I will have to figure out when the time comes. But it sounded like sunshine maybe hid these things and strung him along more. I dont know. I think after 7 years of me being with other people and saying im not interested, it is obvious Im not interested.

[grymoire]

Grymoire, it is just that he is not the right person for me. Little things about him add up. I cant put my finger on one thing, but they are alot. I am not physically attracted to him for one, even though he is an okay looking guy. And I am not attracted to his personality on a boyfriend level either. I feel more caring towards him, and supportive of him than anything.

 

I am sorry to ask once again... but it will really help me if you can explain the bolded part a little bit. When you say personality what specifically do you mean? Are you telling that he doesn't hit on you? hides his sexuality?

 

The reason I am asking is I myself have wondered for a very very long time about why women always dump the good guy and choose the guy that will cheat on them as boyfriends.

 

The female friend that I have talked about in this thread is another example.. she rejected me and went on to date a guy that was a total jerk. He made her cry, never called her, never developed any feelings for her, cheated on her throughout the relationship, and finally during a fight called the cops and put her in jail. She is now taking around 20 pills to deal with the depression.

 

For the life of me I cannot understand why women choose the guys that will break their heart and cheat on them. As sick as this may sound I am even thinking that if I do get a girlfriend I have to cheat on her in order to keep her as a girlfriend.. If I am just a good guy and love her and treat her well I very well may lose her. I always have this fear..

[jettison]

Just being curious.... Has Sunshine posted these details in her post? And no offence to Anon but how is Anon's situation different from Sunshine's situation? Why do you consider that Sunshine used that guy but Anon did not use her friend?

 

I really need help... especially with that last question. If you can explain it in depth it will clear lot of my own questions.

 

Also, there is a good chance that Anon also does not respect her friend.

 

Sunshine made it clear that the relationship was horrible, that it served no real purpose except to combat loneliness, and also that she purposely put out little feel-good, flirty message to him when she imagined that he might be moving away from her. Anon has made it clear that she values this person beyond his lust for her, that she would be crushed if he weren't in her life, and that it would be very difficult for her to just tell him to scram should she, for example, get married.

 

I'm pretty confident that the respect level between the two scenarios is quite different. If you lose all respect for someone simply because they want to get horizontal with you while you don't with them, then that's just how you feel. No one can argue it. But there are other people who are able to maintain a level of friendship even they don't happen to be physically attracted to the person. This seems to be Anon's case. Anon sees a lot of value in her 7 year, and it seems to go beyond merely the combating of loneliness.

 

I highly doubt, for example, that Sunshine would be writing impassioned responses of her former crusher, nor defending him to other posters. She said, quite explicitly, that she considers him a disturbed person.

 

Night, meet Day. Day, meet night.

[jettison]

I can explain this. Every person, male or female, wants to screw someone that they think is capable of...

 

- Sticking up for themself.

- Walking away from a bad situation.

- Puting you in your place when you're a jerk.

- Leaving you.

- Puting themselves first.

 

 

If you have not shown these qualities to your mate or your potential mate then be prepared for the nookie to either not happen, or else to run out in short order. When you don't stand up for yourself, and value you first, it sends very intense signals to the potential mate that you don't consider yourself worthy for, erah, mating.

 

This is why "jerks" get women. It is NOT because they are jerks. It is because they are not doormats, and because they always value themselves first.

[grymoire]

I can explain this. Every person, male or female, wants to screw someone that they think is capable of...

 

- Sticking up for themself.

- Walking away from a bad situation.

- Puting you in your place when you're a jerk.

- Leaving you.

- Puting themselves first.

 

 

If you have not shown these qualities to your mate or your potential mate then be prepared for the nookie to either not happen, or else to run out in short order. When you don't stand up for yourself, and value you first, it sends very intense signals to the potential mate that you don't consider yourself worthy for, erah, mating.

 

This is why "jerks" get women. It is NOT because they are jerks. It is because they are not doormats, and because they always value themselves first.

 

Thx Jettison... As you can see I am just trying to learn whatever I can from this thread.... While I understand that women go for the confident self-respecting man I get confused when I repeatedly see the same scenario -> This guy loves me so much but I am not interested... And all my ex boyfriends have cheated on me.

 

Did you notice? some how I get the impression that women go for the guy that will cheat on them... I am not saying they deliberately choose this type of guy but subconsciously they go for those types...

[jettison]

Thx Jettison... As you can see I am just trying to learn whatever I can from this thread.... While I understand that women go for the confident self-respecting man I get confused when I repeatedly see the same scenario -> This guy loves me so much but I am not interested... And all my ex boyfriends have cheated on me.

 

Did you notice? some how I get the impression that women go for the guy that will cheat on them... I am not saying they deliberately choose this type of guy but subconsciously they go for those types...

 

You're right in that it's a subconscious trait that most women, over time, end up identifying consciously. And yes, if a guy shows that he will cheat on you then it says two things:

 

1) He's a jerk.

2) He's willing to put himself first, and he's also willing to leave you.

 

There is the dichotomy. #1 is patently unattractive while #2 is every woman's dream. Is it any wonder why so many wonderful women are still single and can't find mates? They need someone who presents the illusion of being a downright bastard without ever being one. Hence, the perfect guy.

[Anon333]

Grymoire. I'm so sorry for your situation and hers. I hope she comes through it okay. Is she young? I think the boyfriends from my past have been not the best choices because I met them in bars, and I was not in the best state of mind either. My first boyfriend I ever had was actually the only really decent boyfriend I had, but that was a painful break up too.

 

I think unhealthy people are attracted to unhealthy relationships, whether they realize it or not. Maybe your friend has low self esteem or gets pulled in by these men she initially thinks are exciting and "cool", and then eventually that type of personality in a man turns more into womanizing and "cruel". I think as women get older and know themselves better they want soemone that will treat them well. And I also think as men get older they become less womanizing jerks (I'm talking about the ones that are, who your friend dates). There is a thrill of attraction in either of the sexes of the untamed lover, "bad boy"/"wild women". But I think that gets old with age and realizing that thrill only lasts so long.

 

I wish I could explain to you more why I'm not attracted to him. I see where you bolded what I wrote, and I know it was vague. But explaining attraction is complex. Maybe it is partly because he is so head over heels for me it turns me off and freaks me out. Not because he likes me so much, but because in my eyes its not normal. If I was in love with someone for that long, I think I might go see a shrink or try to get over the person, or at least try a serious relationship with someone else. But that is who he is and how he choses to be. That is why he is just my friend and I see him as just that. He is also manic about his work and sometimes stays up all night working and that annoys me. Not just because it is another bad habit about him, but also because it is bad for him and I'd wish he took better care of himself in that way (he has diabetes).

 

There are so many other little things about his personality that just turn me off in that way. I told you before that his friends dont respect him, it is not just because of him being in love with me. He just has a way about him that makes him a pushover maybe. But I get angry at his friends for treating him that way, because honestly it is mostly cause he has a good heart.

 

Oh, my niece is crying and I must go right now. I hope I helped answer your question a little

[Anon333]

jettison, I guess your response was better than the longwinded one i tried to explain.

[Anon333]

he also has bad breath a lot..maybe from the diabetes?...yuck

[grymoire]

You're right in that it's a subconscious trait that most women, over time, end up identifying consciously. And yes, if a guy shows that he will cheat on you then it says two things:

 

1) He's a jerk.

2) He's willing to put himself first, and he's also willing to leave you.

 

There is the dichotomy. #1 is patently unattractive while #2 is every woman's dream. Is it any wonder why so many wonderful women are still single and can't find mates? They need someone who presents the illusion of being a downright bastard without ever being one. Hence, the perfect guy.

 

OK... I know that this may not be directly related but I am seeing some connection here...

 

The friend that I have mentioned in this thread... I asked her out and she said 'sorry, i like you only as a friend'. But she really loves me as a friend and always wants to have me in her life. She also follows my rules and never talks about her dating life or even ex-boyfriends. There have been many times where we both got into fights... And I told her that I am leaving the friendship because it is not good for either of us.. She always pleads me and wants me to stay. And she seems to cling tightly to me. She keeps telling me "I am afraid that I will lose you at some point". We have been friends for 3 yrs now..

 

Now here is the interesting thing. There is another guy that she knows for 6 to 7 years now. He also has a crush on her and she didn't want to date him either. He is almost like her handyman.. doing so many help.. being taxi driver... taking care of her cats when she goes on vacations.. etc.. He even moved from the east coast to the west coast just to be with her. In her words he is her best friend. But I notice one thing though.. when they fight she stops talking to him and he keeps bombarding her with emails and text messages and she just keeps ignoring him. This year they had a fight and she stopped talking to him from January.. she has stopped being friends with him...

 

This surprises me because she is able to let go of her best friend whom she knows for 7 years.. but she is not willing to leave me even when i want to leave. I know her for only 3 yrs. This year we had a major fight and she stopped talking to me for 3 weeks. I initially tried to resolve but then kept quiet.. By the end of the third week she came running back to me... But with the other guy its been almost 5 months now but still she hasn't talked to him..

 

Even though we are not in a romantic relationship do you think her behavior with me is due to me being a bit like #2? [ 2) He's willing to put himself first, and he's also willing to leave you]

[Anon333]

grymoire. i wish i could write more to your situation right now, but im typing with one hand and my niece on the other. i will say that i think you are onto something. She is more cautious about leaving you cause she knows you will. As for the other guy, im sure if she suddenly contacted him, hed come runninig back, and she knows that..

[grymoire]

grymoire. i wish i could write more to your situation right now, but im typing with one hand and my niece on the other. i will say that i think you are onto something. She is more cautious about leaving you cause she knows you will. As for the other guy, im sure if she suddenly contacted him, hed come runninig back, and she knows that..

 

Thanks for trying to help me even though you are busy.

 

When ever you get some free time I would love to hear about my situation. It has striking resemblance to your situation where my friend is dealing with 2 guys in 2 very different ways.

[Anon333]

I promise I will.. Youve been so helpful in me seeing my situation in so many different lights

[Anon333]

Hi grymoire, I'm back, but may have to leave again. Can I know a little bit more about your situation in order to put my two cents in? Our situations are similar in that we are both in a "friendship" that one person is actually "in love" and the other person just wants to be friends. But I do feel like their is huge differences between the situations. I would also like to add that this is a very VERY common situation. I have heard so many stories about friends being in love with their friend. I actually have another guy (just like your friend), that says he is in love with me and wants to date me, but I laugh it off and we are buddies and it is no big deal and he dates other girls. I dont think this other friend of mine is really in love as much as he would just like to be able to date me.

 

Anyway, off topic. My questions for you is first how old are you both? How long were you two friends before you asked her out? Or did you ask her out, she rejected it, then you two became friends? Does this girl have a lot of other friends, like other girlfriends she hangs out with?

 

I wanted to know these things because one, she has less of a reason for her to beg you to stay her friend if you guys had just met. If you were her friend and you hid your feelings for awhile and then told her, I could see how it would be hard to suddenly lose a friend. Also, the age thing does make a difference because usually when you are younger you are more insecure and make worse choices with relationships and are more destructive. The fact that she is now in a horrible state from her last boyfriend makes me believe she is not su sturdy and makes bad decisions in relationships (as do I! But Im learning).

 

The big difference here is that she is really using your friendship when she knows you want out! I give her credit for following the rules of not talking about other boys, that is similar to establishing limitations and boundaries in a relationship like this, and it is probably good.

 

You have been good to her, she counts on you for emotional support and for friendship as well as feelings of "being loved". I dont think she is mature enough, or perhaps she is being selfish, to sacrifice those things she gets from you in order to spare you the pain. It's up to you to leave the friendship, but now it sounds like she really needs you there as a friend. Perhaps get her through this difficult time and when she can stand on her own two feet you need to split? This is unless you are gaining more good out of this friendship than you are negetive. But you seemed to make it clear the friendship was painful and didnt want to be in it.

 

When I first met my friend of 7 years, I was a naive 21 year old that was excited to have a friend, and was eating up the fact that someone really cared and loved me. At that time, I might have been more prone to pull what your friend is pulling, but it was always really up to my friend to stay in the relationship, even though it was probably hurting him more back then than it is now. Now that I have grown older and feel more secure about myself, losing him would not be me losing the support I needed to live and be happy, losing him would mean being very sad that I lost someone I cared about and shared a large part of my life with. That has changed for me. And I'm sure if I went through a really difficult time in my life again, there might be a selfish part of me that wanted him back to help comfort and fix it. But I know that is all up to me. I dont think your friend feels good about herself and she needs reassurance from as many men who will tell her.

 

As for the other guy who is in love with her, like I said, she knows he is not far away. SHe knows if she whistled for him, he'd come back. But she respects you more and values you more because you would actually leave if it came down to it, and she doesnt want to face being alone.

[Raph]

I think some of your feelings may well be correct and you should trust your instincts sometimes.

 

It seems to me either way he'll be miserable - if his perspective (not his feelings) aren't confronted. Why is he so miserable when he says he would rather be a friend than a lover if it meant being with you? He has to mean it and act according to what he says.

 

And the feelings that this friendship is based on is not a healthy constructive one from the sounds of it, although you're the final judge of that. Tell me this, are his feelings for you clouding your friendship with you? Maybe it is if you did post here on this forum. It sounds like his issue looks like a gloomy cloud that signifies miserable rain.

 

I think you should be very direct with him, as guys do need direct action; in general, we hate dithering around even if we dither around ourselves. I think you can be very direct with him as long as you want/need, and eventually he shouldn't bring the topic up again (not saying his feelings for you won't go).

 

I was in a similar situation to him myself just over a year ago, and I did say a lot of stupid things similar to what he's saying, and I did later look back and think how stupid I was. Of course he is most likely intelligent, and of course he would argue with the advice given here on this forum - I too would have if I was still in the same situation, as I do have some self-esteem and believe myself to be reasonably intelligent and well established. His stubborn feelings are probably down to partly that he is intellectual (or has some sort of self-esteem), and so he feels his feelings are justified.

 

So he would say that his feelings are permanent, and even I said that once. Seven years might indeed make it seem permanent as it is a long time from this perspective, but it doesn't make it *impossible* for the feelings to go away. I supressed my feelings by increasing my feeling of resentment for someone. It didn't mean I hated her but I allowed my resentment to grow as I didn't want to feel needy and dependent.

 

I think I can see why or part of why you don't want to leave him. So you want him to find someone before you leave him? I don't think the onus is on you to do that, even as a good friend, and he should have other friends (ones who treat him as equal). If he doesn't have other friends, tell him how unattractive that makes him look. That might work to both your favours. I understand you don't want to leave him like that, but *whatever* you do you have to try and change the course of the relationship - which is just stagnant right now.

 

I hope this helps. I find it almost unbelievable now to find myself looking at the other side of the coin

 

By the way, you are right in what you're saying to Grymoire:

"unhealthy people attract unhealthy relationships" - I think I was kind of milldy depressed (not so much, but only temporarily and *mildly*) and looked at someone as a saviour as she was really nice to me. That probably played a part in why I acted needy. I'm not saying your guy is depressed, but is probably unhealthy in some way in his mentality.

 

And yes, it is hard to explain why people do certain things like becoming infatuated to the "wrong" guys/girls or treating one friend worse than another older, kinder one. It is down to several factors, and sometimes just the crazy human spirit. Scientists and statisticians would probably assign it a random possibility (the crazy human mind) that you'd switch to the right instead of to the left, but even they would have a field day just trying to pinpoint the different factors. Everybody's different, and sometimes we're just spontaneous and decide to do things that might hurt others without meaning to.

[LilBrownGuy]

i guess i am in a similar situation. i am kinda in the same place as him. Fact is he will always hold on to the hope and possibility as long as you talk to him. if you can't return the feelings, then it is only fair to both of you to end it. I know it sucks, but a real friend would not torture an other. which you are doing to him, whether it be on purpose or not the facts are the facts. be a REAL friend. set him free.