How would you feel?

[barbielovesmac]

but this isn't the same girl. the girl that he was running with and the girl from all the other threads...is not the same girl that he "kissed." this girl is supposedly "a friend"

[barbielovesmac]

im not putting all the blame on him. believe it or not, im not. i know i have a lot to do with everything.

 

he wanted to spare my feelings and lied. because i am insecure and i can be controlling.

 

i know this okay. i do.

 

but at the end of the day ... why is he coming home to me? why? if he lies ... why am i the chosen one, really?

[EQD]

stop looking at it that way. it will help not to. there is more to relationships than love. if he comes to you because he loves you thats fine and good.

But getting down to brass tacks.. you two absolutely do not trust eachother, its a constant power struggle here. there is never anything established, and nothing has been accomplished.

You have been with him this long and you cannot trust him one bit, and you both control who eachother can see or not see. you check up on his myspace and eavesdrop where he goes running and confront him. but after this?

Nothing will be gained, you two will continue to control eachother and try to get an upper hand to make you feel more secure, and still no trust will be built.

You will continue to root through everything he says and does and he will do the same to you..

and it will only get worse and worse and worse. its a downward spiral with only one exit.

[RayKay]

but at the end of the day ... why is he coming home to me? why? if he lies ... why am i the chosen one, really?

 

Because you let him. Because what reason is there for him to leave if he can lie and cheat or whatever else he is doing AND still have you there too?

 

He does not respect you, so thereforeeee he does not care if you hurt while he lives his life as he wants in whatever way he wants.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm with EqD on this. What happened in the beginning, that's a little sketchy, I'll hand you that. But two weeks in, I have to grant some clemency there, since sometimes when things start out, there is a little unsureness and certainly lack of solidity to the relationship. I'm not sure how loose/flexible the boundaries were at that point, but sometimes when a couple starts out, there is a bit of choosing one person over another, "forsaking" of someone else that there was an interest in, and the point is HE CHOSE YOU and since then -- has he been loyal and clear about his intentions to put all his eggs in your basket? If so, I'd forgive that lumpy beginning. (Though I do wonder if the communication was what it should have been, and communicating is terribly important. If you thought "whatevers" and he may have interpreted you as being pissed off and removed from him, that was not good communication both ways. And that's going to have to get better in a marriage, no matter what the issue happens to be.)

 

If this is a "friend", then you have to look to what is making you so insecure. I feel that you have a fair amount of insecurity based entirely on your posts about just you and him, how things go. You feel his affections are not enough, you feel his demonstrations to be inadequate displays of his feelings -- you need a lot emotionally that would naturally lead to suspicion and mistrust, simply because you don't feel solid inside yourself enough to feel safe and secure in his love. I am not trying to be harsh, but I do think based on what I've read and this situation (which is so far your interpreting into as a threatening situation, not it actually being one), there are some inside issues for you to deal with, about your own sense of safety and trust in general, and fearfulness. I think it goes back farther than him, and is about more than this girl or that girl.

 

And the bold excerpt EqD has brought up DOES seem to indicate that you see danger all around. This must be very hard to be going through, barbie, to feel fearful of losing his love or it not being enough in many ways.

[barbielovesmac]

he told me that there is nothing going on between them. that they are just friends. that she is a good friend because she listens.

 

i believe that they aren't doing anything. because like i said he's told me before when something was up .. what's so different now? when i caught them ... why not tell me more right? if there was more to the story and he knew we were going to break up ... then why not tell me?

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Barbie, i think there are several separate issues here.

 

Personally, I would not consider it cheating if he kissed a girl when he thought you'd broken up, after only 2 weeks of dating. Most people aren't even exclusive at that point. So i wouldn't say outright he is a cheater, unless there were other incidents.

 

Next, it sounds like he DOES avoid 'difficult' issues in your relationship. Rather than hash out whether he could do track or not, he avoided it by lying about what he was doing. THAT is a big problem, the lying.

 

But i think it is common for men to do all kinds of things to avoid women's emotions and anger. He just has to learn that lying to avoid confrontation is totally inappropriate and unacceptable. You and he need to learn how to negotiate how to both get what you want out of a relationship, and learn how to fight fair and openly.

 

I think it is wise you break the engagement at this point, so you have time to work through this and be sure that he won't lie to you again. The thing i would be upset about is the lying, and him thinking lying is a solution to working through conflict (i.e., if he wants to do something and he knows you won't like it, he just does it and lies).

[barbielovesmac]

do you think after all his lies that she is just a "friend?" does it sound innocent to you all?

[EQD]

*russian accent* its like talking to wall here. *jokingly*

once again the focus is lost...

*disappointed*

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Yes, she could just be a friend. He may resent you trying to control who he sees (if he's not cheating), and really wanted to do this track stuff.

 

I do know guys who will tell elaborate stories/lies in order to do what they want when their wife disapproves (i.e., he wants to go watch a football game with his buddies, she wants him to do something with her and the kids, so he tells her he has to work, but goes to the football game instead). There may be no woman involved.

 

So to me it shows he is very afraid of your anger, or else he is very selfish and just doesn't want the hassle of fighting it out with you, or else he is being passive aggressive and doing a 'i'll show her, she can't tell me who i can and can't be friends with.'

[barbielovesmac]

this is him written all over. this is him.

[tiredofvampires]

he wanted to spare my feelings and lied. because i am insecure and i can be controlling.

 

i know this okay. i do.

 

but at the end of the day ... why is he coming home to me? why? if he lies ... why am i the chosen one, really?

 

I'm not condoning lies, no way. So don't take this as I am. But. Here's the other side of the coin.

 

People start to lie when they fear the repercussions. I did not want to lose my bf, who was paranoid even though I was OPEN and HONEST with him. So because he was so controlling and jealous, and I felt interrogated and mistrusted, guess what....after a while I started to not mention certain things, I started to withhold stuff that I knew would only cause another argument when I knew I wasn't to blame....so then he found out about my "lie of omission" one day, about this male FRIEND I had, by breaking into my private email account and reading what I wrote my sister about all this secrecy making me feel guilty, and he ended it, saying I was a LIAR.

 

Was I? Or was I just protecting myself from his UNREASONABLE WRATH? I told him that I withheld information because I WANTED TO COME HOME TO HIM EVERY DAY THE REST OF MY LIFE, and knew that he was not in a secure enough place for my entire honesty, which I would have given gladly if I didn't think it would destroy our relationship.

 

Instead of taking this as a wake-up call to look at how he'd sabotaged the relationship with his jealousy and mistrust, and how it had made me less the honest-to-a-fault person that I am....he broke it off with me for being a liar.

 

My last words to him were, "You could choose love, but you've chosen fear instead. I am NOT a liar, I wanted to BE with you and I was SCARED of your reactions, what part of that don't you understand?"

 

I would think that my wanting to preserve the relationship because I loved him would have changed the way he perceived the situation, but nope.

 

That was very blind of him.

 

I think it's great that you are facing up to your piece of it. But cause and effect here: sticky situation (that could be misinterpreted) + insecure/controlling partner = fear = white lie

 

Edit: and I do also believe that eventually, controlling behavior makes people rebel by trying to just exercise their free will. So possessiveness and controlling behavior tends to backfire and achieve the opposite effect.

[barbielovesmac]

you are all so ON it. especially ^^^ TOV. my eyes are open on this one. wide open.

 

i just don't know what i am going to do.

[midnightrambler]

Yes, she could just be a friend. He may resent you trying to control who he sees (if he's not cheating), and really wanted to do this track stuff.

 

I do know guys who will tell elaborate stories/lies in order to do what they want when their wife disapproves (i.e., he wants to go watch a football game with his buddies, she wants him to do something with her and the kids, so he tells her he has to work, but goes to the football game instead). There may be no woman involved'

 

i know plenty of those guys....they just like to drink with buddies

[BeStrongBeHappy]

So you might want to really turn this into a chance to work on those issues, if you think that is him...

 

By that i mean, go to him and tell him that as upset as you get, you'd far rather work through the track issues and come to a compromise than have him lie to you, becuase that makes you wonder what else he is lying about.

 

Also tell him you don't mean to firewall him from his friends, but you are worried about losing him to another woman, and your objects to this particular woman are X, Y, or Z (whatever they are). Perhaps you could compromise by you coming to some of the track meets, or traveling with him if they go out of town.

 

So try to take it out of the realm of being a power struggle between the two of you, into being something where you learn how to communicate and work through impasses. All couples butt heads about things, but the lying is the worst thing that needs to stop. He is entitled to his independence and to not have to answer to you for everything he does, but if he feels the need to lie, thats when you need to stop and negotiate a solution as a couple rather than have him go off on the sly.

[barbielovesmac]

so what if she is just a friend, then what?

 

i don't know how to accept that. i don't know how to accept that because i am so insecure.

 

i know a happy man won't stray. but i don't know that he's happy with me.

[barbielovesmac]

when i asked him if she was on the team, he said no. i said ok, be honest don't lie. because when i go to your track meets i'll know if you are lying or not.

 

he said, no. she isn't on the team. if he knows that i can find out ... by simply going to a track meet .. i don't think he'd lie about that. he had nothing to lose there.

[EQD]

you are all so ON it. especially ^^^ TOV. my eyes are open on this one. wide open.

 

i just don't know what i am going to do.

 

its kinda like looking at bee on your arm... you see it.... you know its bad.. but you look at it wide eyed.. and wonder.. what am i going to do?

If i leave it alone will it just fly off?

If i swish at it will it sting me?

But if it doesnt fly off it means you are stuck with an annoying little bee on your arm... clawing at you with its little bee arms!!!

*faded off topic*

[barbielovesmac]

.Edit: and I do also believe that eventually, controlling behavior makes people rebel by trying to just exercise their free will. So possessiveness and controlling behavior tends to backfire and achieve the opposite effect.

 

you're right. absolutely right. i told him, yes i TOLD him to STOP talking to her. thereforeeee she was forbidden, so he wanted to do it more. he acted out. he may not have cheated and he may not ..... but he did the one thing i didn't want him to. because i went about it ALL wrong. i cried, begged and pleaded for him NOT to talk to her. he lied and said he wouldn't. and he lied because of the way i acted.

[tiredofvampires]

But if it doesnt fly off it means you are stuck with an annoying little bee on your arm... clawing at you with its little bee arms!!!

*faded off topic*

 

Once you get hip to the fact that there is actually a bee there and you don't want to hurt yourself by reacting to it freaking out and making things worse, you start walking slowly and deliberately to a bush, keeping your eye on it, you snap off a leaf and gently, with care, place the leaf where it's crawling, and it is on the leaf now, not your arm and you stoop down and place the leaf on the ground, back away and then walk fast away from it. No one gets hurt, the bee goes on happily and you go on happily, relieved.

 

Yeah, don't know where that belongs (cuz this analogy I'm having a hard time fitting into barbie's situation, except the parts in bold), but oh well.

[tiredofvampires]

i know a happy man won't stray. but i don't know that he's happy with me.

 

This is the crux of it, barbie!

 

And why would you wonder if he's happy with you?

 

Does he seem unhappy in ways?

 

Would you be happy with you, if you were him?

[EQD]

Once you get hip to the fact that there is actually a bee there and you don't want to hurt yourself by reacting to it freaking out and making things worse, you start walking slowly and deliberately to a bush, keeping your eye on it, you snap off a leaf and gently, with care, place the leaf where it's crawling, and it is on the leaf now, not your arm and you stoop down and place the leaf on the ground, back away and then walk fast away from it. No one gets hurt, the bee goes on happily and you go on happily, relieved.

 

Yeah, don't know where that belongs (cuz this analogy I'm having a hard time fitting into barbie's situation, except the parts in bold), but oh well.

 

..so the moral of this story barbie, is to walk him into a bush.. and scrape him off as best you can.. then leave his ass there. and you both will go on your happy way.

[barbielovesmac]

for the most part i think he's happy.

 

but in some ways i don't think he's happy.

 

i can be controlling. im insecure. that doesn't make him happy. that makes him want to run for the hills.

 

he wants more of a life. he told me that. he told me that he wants to be able to do what he wants and when he wants. he wants to talk to who he wants. he says i took that all away from him. but at the same time he took those things away from me too. and i don't want him doing those things because i think he'll stray. but if he's truly happy, then why would he?

 

if i give him those things and if i give him that freedom ... would he be happy and more likely NOT cheat? and what if i DONT give him those things ... will he be more likely to cheat?

 

in other words. if i give him more of a 'life?' is he less likely to cheat? then say i continue to do things the way i am?

[EQD]

for the most part i think he's happy.

 

but in some ways i don't think he's happy.

 

i can be controlling. im insecure. that doesn't make him happy. that makes him want to run for the hills.

 

he wants more of a life. he told me that. he told me that he wants to be able to do what he wants and when he wants. he wants to talk to who he wants. he says i took that all away from him. but at the same time he took those things away from me too.

 

how can we move past this? i don't know that we can.

 

Its not you "can" be controlling and insecure. You are controlling and insecure.

you really cant. he's basically telling you he wants to be single...

and also with the question "why are you still with me?"

[barbielovesmac]

he goes from telling me "why are you still with me?" to telling me that im a nut, but that im his nut. then he hold me. and tells me that he's sorry and that everything is going to be okay.

 

that i just need to let him have her as a friend. that it won't go past friendly talking.

 

i don't get it.