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Very lengthy read, but I could really use some input...


MattW

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I'm not trying to be stalkerish;

 

Well of course not- do you think people sit down and think, "I know, I'll stalk someone" Of course not. But surely you can understand why I might think that based on what you've been posting. You're completely obsessed with this girl even though you don't know her and she has a boyfriend. Just be careful.

 

As for other girls, like I said a while back, I'm not desperately looking for a relationship; I don't NEED to be in one,

 

You're at the age when it's good to start dating even if you aren't really looking for a relationship. Dating doesn't always need to be about marriage and love of the life kind of stuff- dating can be just about having fun and an enjoyable evening, maybe a little romance, maybe not. If nothing else, it's a fun way to meet people.

Besides, there just aren't any girls I know that I'd date. The girls I work with are either over 25 and not interested (and I'm not really comfortable with that age gap, anyway), or under 18 and a tad too immature for my tastes

 

That's very strange that you don't know any girls your own age. Do you have any friends left over from high school? Who/where do you hang out with in your spare time? Surely you must have some friends your own age.

And my non-work friends that are my age are also quite immature; when they try to set me up with girls, it's usually with loose drunk girls looking for a quick hook up.

 

Hmm... maybe you need new friends... college will be good for you in that regard. Are you smarter than most of your friends?

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Well of course not- do you think people sit down and think, "I know, I'll stalk someone" Of course not. But surely you can understand why I might think that based on what you've been posting. You're completely obsessed with this girl even though you don't know her and she has a boyfriend. Just be careful.

 

Yeah, I know, like I said, I not only overthink things, but I also let myself worry about stuff fairly easy, and I think that's why I probably look "stalkerish" in my posts.

 

You're at the age when it's good to start dating even if you aren't really looking for a relationship. Dating doesn't always need to be about marriage and love of the life kind of stuff- dating can be just about having fun and an enjoyable evening, maybe a little romance, maybe not. If nothing else, it's a fun way to meet people.

 

I suppose, but it just seems kind of wrong to me to date some one (consistently) if you don't really feel anything for them. *shrugs*

 

That's very strange that you don't know any girls your own age. Do you have any friends left over from high school? Who/where do you hang out with in your spare time? Surely you must have some friends your own age.

 

Well, my non-work friends ARE friends that are my age from high school. Thing is, like I explained, they're just a bunch of the "immature guys" type that love getting drunk and partying, and trying to push me to hook up with drunk girls met at said parties. A lot of girls that I was friends with in high school went to college out of state, so I can't really hang out with any of them. As for the people I work with, there are a few people that are about my age, but they're other guys, so...

 

Hmm... maybe you need new friends... college will be good for you in that regard. Are you smarter than most of your friends?

 

Hah, oh, I'm definitely smarter than my friends. That's not to sound arrogant, but back in high school I kind of fell in with a bad crowd; they were like the "flunkie" type, but at first, they were pretty fun to hang around with. But after a little while, they just started being extremely abusive (mentally, not physically) to me, and that's where a lot of my older self-esteem/ confidence issues had stemmed from. I tried to break away from them, but they wouldn't let me; they wouldn't leave me alone, and other people were kind of iffy on hanging around with me, because they didn't want to get involved with those people. So, in the end, I was pretty much stuck with them. None of them went to college (some of them don't even have jobs, currently...), and my bet is that they're going to wind up being the type that just never grows up. I only hang out with them now because, well, it's the most convenient thing for me. I'd LOVE to finally be able to break away from them, though... @_@

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I think anybody who puts themself on Facebook or Myspace has to expect that it is for public viewing and if someone wants to check it out 25 times a day then that is their prerogative. People can look and if somebody doesn't want people to look then they shouldn't put their photos and life story on these sites. You can't pick and choose who is going to look. When a woman walks down the street with her boobs hanging out of her top, men are going to look and she shouldn't get all offended when men stare at her boobs spilling out...as long as they don't touch. Same with facebook etc...it is not stalking to check out her site multiple times...he is not making a pain in the ass out of himself, he is keeping a respectful distance. How many people invade someone's privacy by hiring a private investigator...now that is akin to stalking and yet nobody bats an eyelash about that.

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That was not my point at all. My point was, if this girl can see that he is visiting her page multiple times a day, it makes him look like a weirdo. It's not what he has the "right" to do. He wants to become friend with this girl, and right now he is pretending to her that he is very casual about it, just catching up, sending an occasional message, while in reality he is viewing her and he bf's page several times a day and obsessing over pics, messages, etc.

 

My point was- this looks bad for him if she can see that he is doing this.

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Still, I don't know that I'm being as creepy as you guys kinda make it out to be; I very rarely look at any of her boyfriend's pages, and I only check her Facebook page three, four at most, times a day. Like I said, I just like to know what's going on with her, and what she's up to, without actually writing her and bugging her. And yeah, sometimes I get worked up over some of the stuff on her page, but again, I think that's just me overthinking things I don't need to be worrying about at the moment. *Sigh* I dunno, maybe I am crazy... I just don't know anymore... @_@

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I suppose, but it just seems kind of wrong to me to date some one (consistently) if you don't really feel anything for them. *shrugs*

 

I wasn't suggesting that you do that... what I was suggesting is that you start dating. You don't ever have to go past the first date if you don't want to. Look at it as a way to meet girls and have fun... it's not necessarily the start of something significant if you go out on one date with somebody. In fact, truthfully, most of the time it ISN'T the start of anything on the first date.

 

Have you been out on dates before? I know you mentioned that you haven't had a girlfriend, but I suppose that doesn't mean that you haven't dated at all.

 

As for the people I work with, there are a few people that are about my age, but they're other guys, so...

 

These guys from work- are they cool, do you like them? If so, perhaps they could set you up with someone, better than your other friends could do. Do you hang out with them (the work friends) much?

 

So, in the end, I was pretty much stuck with them. None of them went to college (some of them don't even have jobs, currently...), and my bet is that they're going to wind up being the type that just never grows up. I only hang out with them now because, well, it's the most convenient thing for me. I'd LOVE to finally be able to break away from them, though...

 

Yes, I definitely think you need new friends. College might be a good idea for you.

 

In the meantime, you need to think about how to make the best of your situation. I assume that you're from a small town, like I was, which means that all the cool people get the heck out of there as soon as they can.

 

I always tell people that our friends are never accidental- that is to say, we always make conscious decisions about the people we hang out with (as opposed to our families which we are born into). That's where the saying comes from "Judge a man by the company he keeps."

 

So- if you want to break away from them- just do it! If you don't want to hang out with them you don't have to. There's no law that says that you have to. You will need to think about replacement friends though.

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I wasn't suggesting that you do that... what I was suggesting is that you start dating. You don't ever have to go past the first date if you don't want to. Look at it as a way to meet girls and have fun... it's not necessarily the start of something significant if you go out on one date with somebody. In fact, truthfully, most of the time it ISN'T the start of anything on the first date.

 

Have you been out on dates before? I know you mentioned that you haven't had a girlfriend, but I suppose that doesn't mean that you haven't dated at all.

 

I've... hung out with girls in sort of "group dates", I guess you could call them. Like, there have been times when my group of friends would go somewhere and meet a group of girls, and we'd hang out with them. Thing is, there were always two scenarios that seemed to happen; 1) the entire group would be the kind of girl I'm not into (the "party" girls that'd jump into bed with anyone), or 2) there would be a girl or two that would be more my type, and I'd be a little flirty with, only to find out later that she has a boyfriend and is just out with friends. Now, whether they just say that because they're not interested, or if they really do have a boyfriend, I can't be too sure...

 

These guys from work- are they cool, do you like them? If so, perhaps they could set you up with someone, better than your other friends could do. Do you hang out with them (the work friends) much?

 

They're alright, but to put it simply, they have REALLY different interests and hobbies than I do, and I just don't know that I could fit in with them, and keep up with them.

 

Yes, I definitely think you need new friends. College might be a good idea for you.

 

In the meantime, you need to think about how to make the best of your situation. I assume that you're from a small town, like I was, which means that all the cool people get the heck out of there as soon as they can.

 

Haha, pretty much, that about sums it up.

 

I always tell people that our friends are never accidental- that is to say, we always make conscious decisions about the people we hang out with (as opposed to our families which we are born into). That's where the saying comes from "Judge a man by the company he keeps."

 

Yeah, well, heh, like I said, I didn't know what they would become when I first met them. At first it was fun hanging around them, because we had the same kind of sense of humor, and stuff. Then, they subtly started taking cracks at me, but I just shrugged it off, figuring everyone teases their friends, but then it just went WAY overboard, and every time they hung around with me, they took every chance to put me down for every little thing they could think of. They seem to have eased up a bit, now that we graduated high school last year, but they'll still take their shots at me every once in a blue moon.

 

So- if you want to break away from them- just do it! If you don't want to hang out with them you don't have to. There's no law that says that you have to. You will need to think about replacement friends though.

 

Heh, going back to what I said in my previous post, they seem to have this way about them that they can detract other people from wanting to hang out with me. It's even worse by the fact that they know where I work, my usual hangouts, etc. Come to think of it, they seem even more "stalkerish" than I'm being with this girl... @_@

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I've... hung out with girls in sort of "group dates", I guess you could call them.

 

Yeah- group dating is one thing... I think it'd be cool if you could go on a one-on-one date with somebody.

 

Y'know- I've always had a hard time meeting people too, being from a small town also. I ended up doing some internet dating and met my SO that way. Basically what you do is you put your profile online and then if someone's interested in you or if you're interested in somebody else from your area you say hi and meet for coffee. It might be worth a shot. At least you have nothing to lose. Think about it.

 

They're alright, but to put it simply, they have REALLY different interests and hobbies than I do, and I just don't know that I could fit in with them, and keep up with them.

Well, you seem like a pretty smart guy so I don't think you'd have too much trouble keeping up with the conversation. What types of things are they interested in?

Yeah, well, heh, like I said, I didn't know what they would become when I first met them. At first it was fun hanging around them, because we had the same kind of sense of humor, and stuff. Then, they subtly started taking cracks at me, but I just shrugged it off, figuring everyone teases their friends, but then it just went WAY overboard, and every time they hung around with me, they took every chance to put me down for every little thing they could think of. Heh, going back to what I said in my previous post, they seem to have this way about them that they can detract other people from wanting to hang out with me. It's even worse by the fact that they know where I work, my usual hangouts, etc.

 

Matt, if your friends are this destructive to you, you really just need to stop hanging out with them. Life is too short to spend it with people who make you feel like crap. As for them following you around- you need to make it clear to them that you're not going to be hanging out with them anymore and they need to leave you alone. You have to be firm.

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Yeah- group dating is one thing... I think it'd be cool if you could go on a one-on-one date with somebody.

 

Y'know- I've always had a hard time meeting people too, being from a small town also. I ended up doing some internet dating and met my SO that way. Basically what you do is you put your profile online and then if someone's interested in you or if you're interested in somebody else from your area you say hi and meet for coffee. It might be worth a shot. At least you have nothing to lose. Think about it.

 

Huh. I never really looked into finding dates over the Internet, I'm not even sure where to begin looking at sites like that. Admittedly, I've had girls send me friend requests on MySpace, but often times, they're way far away from me (I live in Ohio, and I've gotten friend requests from girls in Texas, California, etc., to put that into perspective), or there's an age difference that I don't think I'd be comfortable with.

 

Well, you seem like a pretty smart guy so I don't think you'd have too much trouble keeping up with the conversation. What types of things are they interested in?

 

Well, these guys are REALLY into sports (they're sort of the jocky type), whether it be actually playing them, or just talking about the pros. Me, on the other hand, I'm not really big on sports. I don't particularly follow any (sometimes I watch casually, but not enough that I'd be knowledgeable about it), nor am I very athletic, myself. So, if I try to jump into their conversations, I'll usually be asked "So, what do you think about ?", and me, not having any clue who or what they're talking about, I just awkwardly say something like "Uh, yeah, they're... pretty good?", before bowing out and letting them continue the conversation. I'm just not a "sporty" person, and really have no interest in getting into them.

 

Matt, if your friends are this destructive to you, you really just need to stop hanging out with them. Life is too short to spend it with people who make you feel like crap. As for them following you around- you need to make it clear to them that you're not going to be hanging out with them anymore and they need to leave you alone. You have to be firm.

 

Yeah, I know, but I think I've pretty much worked through the issues they caused me on my own. Their comments and jokes don't really get to me that much anymore, and I think that may be one of the reasons they've eased up on it, that I'm not an "easy target" any more. Come to think of it, I wonder if, even though I put all that stuff behind me, maybe it's still lingering in the back of my head, and maybe that's why I seem more "obsessed" with this girl in my posts. Sort of like an "Am I good enough for her?" type of thing, or something, and it makes me kinda paranoid, and I let myself stress out about the little things she writes on her page, and whatnot.

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I think pianoguy is giving you some really excellent advice. And I certainly didn't mean to imply that you are actually stalking this girl. I think it's absolutely fine and normal that you want to reconnect with a friend from middle school.

 

But I do think you are letting yourself get carried away when you start imagining these scenarios, like - oh no, what if she gets pregnant, what if her and her bf break up and they still hang out because they have the same group of friends, I think her bf went to a party without her based on new photos on his MySpace, etc.

 

Just try not to live in your head or in the future too much. I think it's a great idea that you get the experience of asking a girl out on a date, and being a little more social in your life right now- instead of spending a lot of time imagining different scenarios that might come up months or years down the road with this one girl.

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This next post probably isn't that relevent to any of this, but I kinda like using this topic as a sort of "journal"-type thing about this whole situation, so. Some of you got me thinking, when you were asking me about dating other girls, and whatnot, and I just remembered two other girls I have had interest in.

 

Girl #1: This girl came into the picture a year before the girl I liked originally transferred out. But, I didn't really take interest in this new girl until after my crush had left. Anyway, nothing ever actually happened between me and this new girl, and I think it was definitely for the best; I like to think that my feelings for her were very superficial, and only came to be because I was feeling down about my crush leaving. This new girl, though, she had lots of issues; she was sexually active in the sixth grade, she attempted suicide (unsuccessfully, of course), she was just bad news. I don't know what I ever saw in this girl, and I'm glad I never attempted to get close to her. *shudder*

 

Girl #2: This one's a little more complicated; all of what I'm about to explain happened in my junior and senior years at high school. There was this one girl that I barely knew; she was sort of shy and not very popular (like me...), but I didn't see her that often, and didn't get many chances to get to know her very well. Remember my "friends" that I was hanging around at this time? Well, they used to make fun of this girl behind her back because she was... a tad heavier than some of the other girls (she wasn't really "fat", and I knew of girls that were bigger than her, so I don't know why these guys made such a big deal out of it with her). After a while, they started scheming, and they decided to start trying to convince this girl that I had a huge crush on her. I didn't, but really only because I didn't know her very well.

 

One day I overheard her talking to one of her friends about me, and she seemed confused because she didn't know if I liked her or not. I couldn't really tell how she felt about me by that, though, so I became distant with her, because if she DID like me, I didn't want to lead her on, or anything. As my senior year was ending, though, I kind of got to know her a little bit better from afar (seeing her interactions with others in class, and such), and at that point, while I wasn't, like, head over heels for her, I definitely would've gone out with her. I think one of the main things holding me back from ever approaching her, though, was because I was worried how my "friends" would treat her. They were still making jokes about her behind her back, and I didn't want to have to put her through all that. I'm not particularly hung up on this girl, but she was a nice person, and if nothing else, she probably would've been a good "first girlfriend" for me. Ah well.

 

So, my point in all this? I dunno, I guess it's that I HAVE had interest in other girls, it's just that with this current girl, it's a lot stronger. Something in my gut tells me that if I don't at least take a chance with her, I'm going to regret it later on down the road.

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Dunno; far as I know, she doesn't have a MySpace or Facebook account, or anything like that.

 

What board would be best to break into a new thread? And what do I even write in it? A lot's happened since my first post here, should I just sum all that up, or... what?

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*Sigh* I'm just in a bad mood today, so maybe I'm just being stupid, but... I can't help but wonder if maybe I should just completely give up with this girl... She seems happy right now (in fact, her recent update to her Facebook page says she "finally understands what true happiness is"), and I dunno, maybe me being in her life would take away from that... Maybe I should just stop writing to her period, make plans to go to a different college than her, assume she's going to end up marrying this guy, and just put it in the back of my mind like I've been doing for the last seven years. Only problem with that is, I honestly don't think I can get over her without some kind of direct closure with her, so if I do all that, I'll just be going back to bottling up my feelings for who knows how many more years.

 

I dunno, like I said, that's probably just my bad mood talking. In a few days, I'll probably be back to being more optimistic about me and her, for all I know...

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So yeah, just like I thought, I'm back to being a little more optimistic, now, heh. I'm probably back on track to write her this weekend, like I had originally planned. Oh, and argh, some one needs to cut my Internet connection, or something, because I'm driving myself nuts reading her "updates" on her Facebook page, haha. Earlier in the week, for two days straight, her updates seemed to indicate she was arguing with her boyfriend, or something, based on some of the not-so-nice names she was calling him. Today, she wrote something that sounds almost playful, about changing the "status" (and the only "status" I can see on anyone's page is "relationship status") on some one's page. So, hm. I'm trying REALLY hard not to get my hopes up, here, heh heh.

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Listen man, I just want to jump in here and say to GET A GRIP.

 

Stop being so obessesive. Stop facebooking her. You haven't seen her since you guys were little. She has a boyfriend. You don't even live in the same area. Seriously.

 

If its really meant to be it will happen, but since you haven't actually seen her in forever, stop obessessing! The time just isn't right now.

 

Maybe your lives will intersect again, maybe you will have very important roles in each others lives, maybe you'll end up together, who knows. But obviously, its not now. So chill out and concentate on YOU and less on someone you havent seen since middle school!!!

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Yeah, I know, I know. But like I've been saying, I'm not obsessive in the sense that I would ever do anything drastic; the only bad thing I'm really doing is driving myself crazy over the situation, and to be honest, I've been doing that to myself in other types of situations all my life, so I'm used to it.

 

And I dunno, I don't think I really buy into the whole "If it's meant to be, it'll happen" idea, because to assume that, you'd have to believe that if something is meant to happen, it's going to happen no matter what choices we make. I think you have to make the right choices to get there, rather than sit around and just see what happens. Although, right now, I fully recognize that all I can do at this moment is sit around and see what happens with this girl... Anyway, I think if there really is some kind of "fate" or "destiny", rather than something being "meant to be", we're given oppurtunities, and based on the decisions we make, that's the outcome we get. And I'll tell ya something; the fact that I even found this girl in the first place was dumb luck. If she hadn't been in the little news article I found a while back, who knows when or even if I'd have ever found her again? I think that's one of the main reasons I'm so "obsessive" about her right now; I found her by pure luck.

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We can guide our destiny but just because we do all the right things to achieve a certain outcome, doesn't mean we will actually achieve that outcome because outside forces beyond our control could play a role. That is where "if it is meant to be it will happen" or "fate" or "destiny" comes in to play....not just in relationships but in most things in life. Things that happen in our life are a combination of both. No you can't sit around and wait for fate to happen, you have to go out and make your own opportunities...but you should never discount the fact that there are outside forces influencing the outcomes of our actions and decisions.

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Mm, well, I guess that makes some sense to me. Either way, though, I'm pretty sure something is definitely going on with this girl and her boyfriend; either they're just having a fight that'll blow over later, or they're actually in the process of breaking up. She was logged on to MySpace last night, so I shot her a comment asking how she's been doing, to see if I could get any info out of her, but she never responded. But, I suppose I understand, especially if she is going through something bad and just didn't want to talk about it.

 

And don't get me wrong, here, I'm not exactly happy or excited about the possibility that her relationship may be coming to an end; in fact, I'm more nervous about it than anything, simply because this *could* be my chance with her, but I have absolutely no idea of how to go about making it happen, ya know? Like, I don't know how long to let her "heal" from her breakup (but at the same time, not wait so long as to let some one else start getting involved with her), or how to work up to asking her out, especially online. I dunno.

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Yeah, the wait-and-see approach is all I can do, right now... Anyway, it appears as though she's made up with her boyfriend, for the time being. But, being that I don't know the nature of their dispute, what it was about, etc., I don't know if or how it'll have any impact on their future. Also, I know I really shouldn't take this so personally, but I'm a tiny bit hurt she didn't respond to the last little comment I wrote her on MySpace. I know she's seen it, because she even made some tiny tweaks to what I had written (heh, I thought that was kinda cute), and I'm pretty sure she's written to other people since then, so it's kinda bugging me; I feel like I, like, did or said something wrong, or something, but I don't know what, exactly, I did...

 

What's more is, if I want to try writing her again in another week or so, what do I say, considering she didn't even answer the basic "What's up?"-type message I had sent her recently? I don't want to keep sending her the same basic comment every week, but I can't think of anything interesting to say, especially since her and I haven't really built up that much of a friendly relationship just yet.

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I don't see a point in this wait and see approach. When I was in college, something similar happened to me. This girl flirted with me. I didn't flirt back. I deeply regreted that I didn't make a move. About a year later, I contacted her through the university email system. When we finanlly hung out at the university coffee shop, she told me that she had a boyfriend. Some time later, she stopped returning my emails. Her boyfriend ended up becoming her current husband.

 

She was sexy, smart, charming, and wonderful. I thought she was irreplacable. Looking back, I didn't know why I put myself through that much torture and agony. There are plenty of women that are just as sexy, smart, and charming as she is. Instead of basing my happiness on what I did with my life, i tried to build a false happiness on whether that one, special girl liked me. What an unfair burden to put on one girl.

 

MattW, you have your entire life ahead of you. Why are you putting your life on hold for some girl who is still in a relationship with some other guy???

 

There is no point in getting emotionally invested in a girl if she cannot return your feelings. The more time that you think about your next strategy with this girl, the more emotionally invested in her you are going to be. The fact that she cannot reciprocate your feelings is going to tear you up inside. How are you going to feel if she never breaks up with her boyfriend? Even if she does eventually break up with her boyfriend, it does not mean that she will date you. Instead of torturing yourself over one girl, you should be meeting new girls and having fun. Don't worry about any of this relationship stuff unless you connect well with a girl that you are actually dating instead of admiring from afar. The confidence and skills that are needed for dating and relationships is much, much more important than admiring some girl who cannot return your feelings. Don't worry about whether this girl is going to break up with her boyfriend and date you. Instead, you should focus on you. You should focus on having fun and meeting new girls who can reciprocate your feelings.

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Well, that's the thing; like I've been saying, there just aren't any girls I know that I could see myself dating, and that goes back to the fact that I live in a pretty small place, and all the "cool" people pretty much got out of here when they had the chance. I'm not necessarily waiting to see what happens with her, but just everything in general. I'm hoping to go to college in the fall, and depending on where I get accepted to and where I end up going, I could have to make a big move. Why get emotionally invested in some other girl now, then find out I'm going to be moving quite a ways away in 5-6 months, yanno?

 

I'm hoping I can meet new people at college, and just basically start fresh. And besides, I'm not totally closing myself off to the idea of dating other girls, or anything. Like I said, that's all just a matter of not knowing any girls currently that I'm interested in. Maybe when I go to college, I'll meet some one new? I don't know. But I'm not saying this girl is, like, the only girl I could ever be with, etc. I just feel some kind of special connection with her, and I want to see where things go with her. Honestly, I really think her and I have quite a bit in common, and I think we'd get along great together. Whether that would evolve into an actual relationship, I don't know, but I like to think she'd at least consider it.

 

If there comes a time when I put myself out there to her, and she rejects me, then... well, as much as it'd hurt, at least maybe THAT would help me start to get over her. I just feel like this is one of those times where I need to take a chance. Maybe things wouldn't work out between her and me, I dunno, but I'd rather look back in 40-50 years and be able to say that I at least attempted to start things up with her, rather than do nothing.

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It is fine not to have any interest in the girls who are currently in your circle of acquaintances and to want to hold off dating until you figure out where you are moving to. Just don't fall into the trap of making this currently unavailable woman a major focus of your life. Focus on your life and find some interests so that you are not totally enmeshed in what this unavailable woman is doing. You are a very distant acquaintance to her so there is no reason for her to respond so quickly to you, especially since she is probably tied up with her friends, her life, her boyfriend. Who knows, maybe the spat she had with her boyfriend took a toll on her so she doesn't have time for contacting people who are not within her inner circle of friends. You are reading too much into things and you don't even know this woman except for what you know of her from the distant past. You are going to drive yourself crazy obsessing about all the little signs when there is really nothing there at this point in time. Find out where your own future will be leading you...focus on that. Things will eventually fall into place as they are meant to be...you can't rush things and push things too much. If she doesn't respond, let it go for a while. When you figure out which University you are going to then you can contact her.

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