Does Evil Exist?

[itsallgrand]

Whoa. Thank you.

 

That is difficult even to imagine. To recognize in another and 'get it' ; my god, how?

 

Not to derail this thread entirely but psychopaths do seem relevant to the discussion. I'm betting a chunk of significant 'evil' men and women have been psychopathic.

 

I wonder if their brains are physically different as well. Showing different chemical activity on scans; like can be done with various other mental disorders or brain traumas.

 

Otherwise, how to even guess that the person is indeed without a conscience. It's not something that comes to mind, and even when it does, it seems so hard to believe. My brain fights even recognizing this as real!

 

People are amazing. Wow.

[Spugly Fuglet]

there is another form of psychopath one thats made,

Take a believer, indotrante them in a death cult, strap C4 to them

and tell them "When you blow your self up, every one you kill will be your slave in heaven"

 

Nice that

[Cimmie]

^^^

That is really shocking stuff

[Daddy Bear]

Maybe "evil" is just a word we use to describe others, in order to justify our own hatred.

 

 

[Luke Skywalker]

In terms of non-intentional evil, such as accidents, natural disasters and what not well it yeah, you can see there is evil in the world there. But what's more sinister or dangerous is the evil perpetuated from one human being to another either by willful act or omission.

 

For example, I've remembered the movie Hostel, which I viewed last November, and now they are coming out with Hostel II (which I'm not going to view). When you look at these movies then you realize that evil exists and some people really have no soul and are so far gone that they are the devil themselves. During the institution of slavery, lots of barberic acts were inflicted on natives and slaves.

 

Then you have indirect evil by omisssion. People who are homeless or need money for a roof, but are competent enough to work, but they are paid to little to support themselves, or are unable to find any work - well poverty is evil.

 

Other examples of evil are the persecution of Christians by Romans by being fed to lions for the profession of their faith, or currently in Arabic Muslim countries where they are tortured in prison - not to mention persecution in Communist countries. Again, this world is all messed up.

 

I'm going to stop here. I think it's quite clear that evil exists in this world because people have turned from God and are full of darkness.

[Cimmie]

Non-intentional 'evil' is not evil. It falls under the category of happens', unfortunately.

 

As for the interrogations going on in Muslin countries, yes, its very like what happens at Guantanamo Bay and in the practice of extraordinary rendition.

[Daddy Bear]

Other examples of evil are the persecution of Christians by Romans by being fed to lions for the profession of their faith, or currently in Arabic Muslim countries where they are tortured in prison - not to mention persecution in Communist countries.

 

Crusades, Inquisitions, Kristallnacht... Christianity is no different from the other religions. They all validate our inherent goodness or justify our xenophobia, depending on what we want to take from them. Fact is, we're animals - and the most dangerous of all animals, because we've come up with many more reasons to do harm than has any other species that ever existed.

[Raphael256]

Fact is, we're animals - and the most dangerous of all animals, because we've come up with many more reasons to do harm than has any other species that ever existed.

Most dangerous and evil animals are kittens, they will soon take over the world...it's true.

[Daddy Bear]

Most dangerous and evil animals are kittens, they will soon take over the world...it's true.

Blimey, I forgot about the kitten menace. And then there are the fish... well, I'm sure we're somewhere in the top five or so nasty creatures.

[Luke Skywalker]

Crusades, Inquisitions, Kristallnacht... Christianity is no different from the other religions. They all validate our inherent goodness or justify our xenophobia, depending on what we want to take from them. Fact is, we're animals - and the most dangerous of all animals, because we've come up with many more reasons to do harm than has any other species that ever existed.

 

No, people use Christianity for their own personal political or economic reasons. Just because someone uses a religion for their own impure motives doesn't taint the religion. I can make an extention and say that Atheism is evil because of genocides during Communist dictatorships in Cambodia, Russia, etc.... and say, well, these Communists were Atheists - and they committed far worst barberic atrocities than so called Christian entities you stated above.

 

I'd go even further to say that in your particular instances, true Christians who believed in justification by faith as the bible states, were slated for persecution by the Roman Catholic church which teached justification by following their sacrements and church. For example, if I dont believe the eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ, I'd be deemed a heretic and burned to a stake. Guess what? I just believe the eucharist is a wafer, no different from an Eggo waffle - so I'm a heretic also since I dont believe in the transubstantiation dogma. But, I believe in Jesus Christ - they would still target me for persecution because my beliefs are incompatable with the Roman Catholic church in that case.

 

Constantine invented a religion, like Mohammed did, to unite pagans and Christians together - because Satan realised that by persecuting Christians and feeding them to lions, more people were converting to Christianity as it was becoming a radical faith that was more important than life itself -- so Satan's next strategy was to infiltrate the Christian religion and make counterfeit versions of it to confuse people. Thus, true Christians would still be persecuted by an illegitimate Christian church inspired by the devil itself.

[Cimmie]

Oh dear, I sense another theological dispute coming on...

[Daddy Bear]

So you say, Luke. Everybody thinks their own religion is the bestest, seeing the "evil" in all others but their own.... and that's where the problems come in.

 

By the way, you misunderstood my point in a fairly fundamental way. I don't think that religion creates darkness in the hearts of men any more so than does atheism. It's just one more thing for people to fight to the death about.

 

Oh dear, I sense another theological dispute coming on...

 

Q.E.D....

[Luke Skywalker]

The point of the matter is unless you are walking with Christ then you are a sitting duck. The devil is plotting on everybody's life on how best to steal, kill and destroy people. Think about it. Why is it that when some parties are going on, or where there is sin around, people end up dying with gun shots or some other crap happens? It's like people are walking targets unless they are protected otherwise evil things happen to everyone. In the world, people get on drugs, they die of over-dose or something laced into it, drug dealers or people involved in that world get killed for trivial reasons - the money ain't even worth it if your life is at risk all the time. People going into the mafia ditto. People who drink alcholol and become drunks - a plan is on them too. People looking at porn, and escalating in their sex addictions until they go further and further into an abyss of sin. Look around you -- people are held captive into a mire of sin and are walking on a path leading to evil.

 

To be protected, one has to be walking right with God, then there is a hedge around them, and unless in a time of testing, the Bible says in Psalm 91 that no evil shall come to anyone who trusts in God.

 

I have first-hand saw the God protect my mom in court when people sued her. Judges who made wrong decisions and put a judgement on the wrong file where my mom got off the hook. Or freak adjournments that I succeeded in getting because some unknown force blocked the service of legal documents. These evil creditors were out to get us, but God intervened and confused up their case because when they sued mom, they sued God, and they cant win over God.

 

I've also seen near misses of accidents and stuff - and attribute it to the protection of God. Thus, I believe people have to pray and stay in constant communion with God. Outside of Christianity and in the world - I see it as evil all around, forces are there to corrupt, demoralise, hurt, injure and kill people - and people are just being targeted to be killed and to be put in hell if it isn't for the efforts and prayers of believers fighting this off. You can say the wrong word to a girl and she can kill you. I tell you - one needs the protection of God out there in this mad world.

[Scout]

I really liked the original post in this thread. It gave me a different way to look at evil in this world, especially when the question inevitably arises in me sometimes, "How can God allow this?"

 

To the OP, thanks for posting!

[Daddy Bear]

"Evil creditors"? I thought Jesus said that we should always honor our debts. "Render unto Caesar" - does that ring a bell?

[EvaGina]

Evil does indeed exist. Evil is not the consequence of a lack of goodness, it is an active, tangible manifestation.

 

brilliant post.

 

Evil is not the LACK of goodness... it still involves effort.

Indifference is the lack of goodness.

[Scout]

Evil is not the LACK of goodness... it still involves effort.

Indifference is the lack of goodness.

 

Hmmm...this perspective makes sense to me, too. A lot of sense, actually.

 

And perhaps an absense of God from one's heart leads to indifference. Although I have encountered some so-called Christians of late who appear to be very indifferent to the plight of those less fortunate themselves (on an Internet debate about single payer healthcare).

 

Overall, a great thread that really gives one much to think about!

[Daddy Bear]

Evil is not the LACK of goodness... it still involves effort.

Indifference is the lack of goodness.

 

I have to disagree. Experts tell us that child sex murderers are motivated by simple want, and kill their victims because they are indifferent to the suffering of others. It is not necessary to introduce a phantom metaphysical force into the equation in order to understand why people do bad things.

[Scout]

I have to disagree. Experts tell us that child sex murderers are motivated by simple want, and kill their victims because they are indifferent to the suffering of others.

 

I have not done in-depth studies on the matter, so can't say if this is wrong or right. But don't many apists and murderers actually feel sadistic thrills from causing suffering - often driven by emotions such as rage and revenge, at least in the realm of adult sex crimes (i.e., serial killers raping and murdering adult women)? That would seem far different than mere indifference.

[Cimmie]

I have not done in-depth studies on the matter, so can't say if this is wrong or right. But don't many apists and murderers actually feel sadistic thrills from causing suffering - often driven by emotions such as rage and revenge, at least in the realm of adult sex crimes (i.e., serial killers raping and murdering adult women)? That would seem far different than mere indifference.

 

People like Jeffrey Dahmer are cold killers. There is little emotional passion involved.

 

With a psychopathic serial killer, it is the absense of affect that's most striking. These people lack the emotional resonance and depth of ordinary folk.

 

I agree with somebloke that the absense of positive good is enough to admit evil. Moral indifference is on the scale of evil...it's a question of degree and not of kind, perhaps.

 

The kind of indifference that leads to people turning a blind eye to mass murder, for example in Nazi Germany or occupied France: that is evil too. In that case, to use religious language, it's a sin of omission rather than commission, but no less heinous, given what was involved.

[Daddy Bear]

I have not done in-depth studies on the matter, so can't say if this is wrong or right. But don't many apists and murderers actually feel sadistic thrills from causing suffering - often driven by emotions such as rage and revenge, at least in the realm of adult sex crimes (i.e., serial killers raping and murdering adult women)? That would seem far different than mere indifference.

Indifference is not the motive, it's the mechanism. They want their sick thrills and don't care who they hurt. Again, pathological sexual sadism and related disorders can be explained without introducing a tangible intangible (sic) outside influence.

[Scout]

Again, pathological sexual sadism and related disorders can be explained without introducing a tangible intangible (sic) outside influence.

 

To me, that's a subjective assertion. Very subjective.

[Daddy Bear]

That's cool, Scout... but to me, it's simply a logical application of the Occam's Razor principle. If something can be explained without invoking the paranormal, I lean that way. Sure, there could be a force field of evil around the Earth, and those who develop certain belief systems could magically become immune. Given that empirical evidence tends not to support that idea, however, I tend to be skeptical.

[Scout]

Sure, there could be a force field of evil around the Earth, and those who develop certain belief systems could magically become immune.

 

Just as an FYI, Christianity does not teach that embracing the faith makes one immune from evil. If that's what you were referring to, not sure.

[Daddy Bear]

Just as an FYI, Christianity does not teach that embracing the faith makes one immune from evil. If that's what you were referring to, not sure.

Apparently, not all Christians would agree with you on that:

 

The point of the matter is unless you are walking with Christ then you are a sitting duck. The devil is plotting on everybody's life on how best to steal, kill and destroy people. Think about it. Why is it that when some parties are going on, or where there is sin around, people end up dying with gun shots or some other crap happens? It's like people are walking targets unless they are protected otherwise evil things happen to everyone. In the world, people get on drugs, they die of over-dose or something laced into it, drug dealers or people involved in that world get killed for trivial reasons - the money ain't even worth it if your life is at risk all the time. People going into the mafia ditto. People who drink alcholol and become drunks - a plan is on them too. People looking at porn, and escalating in their sex addictions until they go further and further into an abyss of sin. Look around you -- people are held captive into a mire of sin and are walking on a path leading to evil.

 

To be protected, one has to be walking right with God, then there is a hedge around them, and unless in a time of testing, the Bible says in Psalm 91 that no evil shall come to anyone who trusts in God.

 

I have first-hand saw the God protect my mom in court when people sued her. Judges who made wrong decisions and put a judgement on the wrong file where my mom got off the hook. Or freak adjournments that I succeeded in getting because some unknown force blocked the service of legal documents. These evil creditors were out to get us, but God intervened and confused up their case because when they sued mom, they sued God, and they cant win over God.

 

I've also seen near misses of accidents and stuff - and attribute it to the protection of God. Thus, I believe people have to pray and stay in constant communion with God. Outside of Christianity and in the world - I see it as evil all around, forces are there to corrupt, demoralise, hurt, injure and kill people - and people are just being targeted to be killed and to be put in hell if it isn't for the efforts and prayers of believers fighting this off. You can say the wrong word to a girl and she can kill you. I tell you - one needs the protection of God out there in this mad world.

 

Does God miraculously let Christians slide from their debts by manipulating the legal system? Do near-accidents happen to Christians more often per capita than to others? I don't think so, but Luke does. That was the reason behind my statement about immunity to evil.