Why do people break up?

[karvala]

I'd add one that I think is quite common, if relatively unspoken

 

(1) Disappointment.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've read about breakups, and what it has amounted to is one person discovering that the other person is not who they thought they were or hoped they were (sometimes after the honeymoon stage, sometimes when they make a discovery about something such as cheating, sometimes simply as time goes on). This leads to them breaking it off and continuing the search for someone to match up to the image.

[need2bme]

Melrich, thanks so much for this thread. It got HUGE, real quick. I cannot read every post yet, as I am at work, but I am going to. Such great replies that make you think.

 

I like what you said about the chemicals juicing your head. How true is that? Of course, I sometimes think when I am looking at the key factors that we may not be compatible with, that I am just looking for something to mess it up or I am overanalyzing again.

 

See how your mind can play tricks on you?

 

Instead of calmly and rationaly thinking about any issue I might think I have early on in the relationship, I sometimes brush them aside.

 

Early on, the girl I dated after the ex (for 3 weeks), did not follow politics at all and was an atheist. Neither of which would have been a deal breaker, but I do believe in God and while she can believe what she wants and I would still like her; what would we teach the kids, when we had them? Also, I am prior military so I have some opinions on Iraq and when I spoke about the military climate, she simply shrugged her shoulders.

 

I too sometimes rationalize in my head, if I find out something early, that I can possibly wait it out or take the "let's see where this goes attitude".

 

Also, as far as having children, I agree that this is something that should be talked about early on. The girl I dated for 3 weeks (yes, only a 3 week relationship ), spoke about wanting children and that spooked me a little, as I have 2 grown children. When we were no longer dating (because she said we were going to fast) I reminded her of the talk about children and who brought it up and she replied that is something that should be spoken about early on, so she would know if she should even be dating someone.

 

Makes sense now...;-)

[mikeca]

in addition to melrichs reasons...

 

1. Wrong timing

2. Lack of motivation to commit

 

 

have you met my ex? haha, took the words or...text right outta my mind.

[cantexplain]

I stand by what I said...that cheating often happens when any of these things are not addressed. However, I am NOT saying it is an excuse. I think when relationship are going sour for any reason, that is when people tend to cheat. Doesnt make it RIGHT or OKAY, but people use it as an EXCUSE.

 

Cheating is not excused by

 

1. Communication problems

2. Growing apart

3. The relationship is taken for granted (gets stale)

4. Abuse (mental or physical)

 

Also, cheating is not an excuse to end a relationship, it is, however, a no-brainer explanation of its end.

 

In such case this is relationship sabotage. Its like saying "here - it is over. I'm not big enough to work on these things or end the relationship. I have cheated on you. Goodbye. This is my final gift to you - however momentarily, I've just shown you I can offer the same sexual self I pledged to you but now to another being. I am handing you a perfect excuse to stop trying with me and go spend your energy elsewhere."

[cantexplain]

The cheater doesn't usually use it as a break up tool, that would defeat their purpose of control, deceit and selfishness....

 

Interesting ....

 

thereforeeee it is important for us to forget about the love or the betrayal, and seek to heal ourselves (get away) from the sickness of selfish control over us?

 

On the other hand, if this affair is completely behind our backs, how can it be control? -- unless it is controlling us by the cheater saying something to themselves - like, "hey I'm not really all there for you like you think I am. This is my safety." The control is then in their mind.

 

Having never cheated nor having never been involved with someone cheating, I am having such a hard time understanding the inner dynamic of the cheater. It even hurts just trying to figure it out. Its scary to me that people can act this way with people they allegedly love.

 

I am so afraid of it happening to me again - although it has been relatively infrequent in my case. More times than not my lovers have proven themselves to be trustworthy. It is amazing how just one or two experiences of infidelity can louse up my trust like this.

 

Ugh. It so hard to go with the flow in romance, anymore.

[anggrace]

Cheating is not excused by

 

1. Communication problems

2. Growing apart

3. The relationship is taken for granted (gets stale)

4. Abuse (mental or physical)

 

Also, cheating is not an excuse to end a relationship, it is, however, a no-brainer explanation of its end.

 

In such case this is relationship sabotage. Its like saying "here - it is over. I'm not big enough to work on these things or end the relationship. I have cheated on you. Goodbye. This is my final gift to you - however momentarily, I've just shown you I can offer the same sexual self I pledged to you but now to another being. I am handing you a perfect excuse to stop trying with me and go spend your energy elsewhere."

 

 

Do you think Im saying it IS an excuse? Im saying its USED as an excuse.

[Dako]

I sure got your drift, anggrace.

 

Every cheater I know has a bundle of excuses.

"My wife doesn't understand me."

"He ignores me."

 

Yada yada.

Then fix it or bail, Bosco.

Don't make it worse with a fling.

[cantexplain]

Do you think Im saying it IS an excuse? Im saying its USED as an excuse.

 

No anggrace I knew you and I were on the same page!

 

However, I've run into people who excuse their cheating due to other matters occurring in the relationship. I used to fall for that and blame myself. Finally I am coming around to realize it is separate behavior.

 

I just took your word there and ran with it.

 

I stand by what I said...that cheating often happens when any of these things are not addressed. However, I am NOT saying it is an excuse. I think when relationship are going sour for any reason, that is when people tend to cheat. Doesnt make it RIGHT or OKAY, but people use it as an EXCUSE.

 

Considering your post above more closely, I am not clear on the difference between an excuse and using something as an excuse.

 

Perhaps this is the same distinction I am making between an explanation and an excuse?

 

But maybe not, when I say explanation, then cheating explains why one breaks up with the cheater ... and excuse is, for me, a projected fault of the relationship or the other person the cheater uses to rationalize his/her cheating.

 

What I think you are saying is that cheaters are often in relationships where one or more of the first four factors are souring, and then they cheat without working on the problem or breaking-up. I can see that.

 

What I think I should have said is that cheating is not excused by the other reasons for a break-up. In and of itself, however, it explains why someone would break-up with a cheater.

 

I wonder, do any of you think there are people who cheat whose troubles with commitment, prior unresolved sexual trauma, inability to trust or be deeply intimate, or other reasons - then lead to the souring of one or more of the first four factors - in order to have an excuse to cheat?

[need2bme]

I wonder, do any of you think there are people who cheat whose troubles with commitment, prior unresolved sexual trauma, inability to trust or be deeply intimate, or other reasons - then lead to the souring of one or more of the first four factors - in order to have an excuse to cheat?

 

I firmly believe this. I think your wording of excuse versus explanation works, as well. I will add that I think the person who cheats was NEVER in the relationship to begin with. At least not enough to realize that the feeling that you want to cheat should make one realize the need to take care of whatever is wrong with the relationship or get out.

 

Also, would you consider it cheating (I consider it betrayal) if a couple had been broken up, but the ex kept acting as if you were together, because the ex did not want to hurt you and then you find out they care about someone else AND still make love to you or act as if they want to be around you.

 

I ask, because at first I was hurt, then I was mad and now I just feel betrayed (and a little like the ex cheated on me - hell, I know that means she cheated on him).

 

Sorry, I got sidetracked.

[cantexplain]

Also, would you consider it cheating (I consider it betrayal) if a couple had been broken up, but the ex kept acting as if you were together, because the ex did not want to hurt you and then you find out they care about someone else AND still make love to you or act as if they want to be around you.

 

Yes I would. But I'd like to add that it seems likely that this person is doubling their odds and this has nothing to do with not wanting to hurt you.

 

I ask, because at first I was hurt, then I was mad and now I just feel betrayed (and a little like the ex cheated on me - hell, I know that means she cheated on him).

 

She was cheating on both of you, perhaps - unless he knew about you and you and didn't know about him, or vice versa.

 

I mean no harm to you or your ex. I want to express this, however: GROSS!

 

You should be mad that someone you thought had cared for you and was interested in protecting you (as at least a friend or fellow human) being would drag you through this and allow this to happen to you.

[need2bme]

I mean no harm to you or your ex. I want to express this, however: GROSS!

 

You should be mad that someone you thought had cared for you and was interested in protecting you (as at least a friend or fellow human) being would drag you through this and allow this to happen to you.

 

No harm taken. In fact, I knew what was going to go down with the emotions from her, DURING us messing around and still continued. So, yes...stupid AND disrespecful on my part. However, in my defense, it was the only way to get close to her and I always found her incredibly sexy.

 

I do now know that I still have to have a higher respect for myself, regardless.

 

The last sentence you wrote struck me, as I have been thinking recently that I was both cheated on and cheated.

 

Cheated on, as she was seeing this other guy AND just plain cheated, because she NEVER gave me true love and NEVER allowed me to really love her.

[need2bme]

Do any of you guys think that communication is sometimes lost, because we cloud our judgement with past trangessions in the relationship? Do you think that subconsciously we hold onto what we believe is being said, instead of what is actually being said, because of past feelings, when really we should be concentrating on the other person and trying to change the pattern?

[Prenkle]

How come people don't find out that they have communication problems before they get married? Isin't that what dating is for?

[Tex1907]

People break up because they make the wrong decisions. Getting married too young or having children in your early 20's is one of many. People also break up because they are unwilling to do any work in their relationships. Instead of overcoming a few problems, they just give up. People also break up because they are selfish cheaters. They also may find another partner they like better while they are with their present partner. This is very selfish, especially when such a person does not even discuss the situation with their current partner before they begin their new relationship. To me, these are the most extreme causes.

 

How come people don't find out that they have communication problems before they get married? Isin't that what dating is for?

Exactly. People get married way too young without any thought (or communication) nowadays. With an approximate 50% chance of divorce, you would think they would want to learn to communicate a little better. Most of these people are just young and naive and eventually they become very unhappy because they rushed into things.

[Dako]

People got married quite young years ago, too.

It's not a new trend at all.

[Prenkle]

What type of communication problems are we talking about? Lying?

[Tex1907]

People got married quite young years ago, too.

It's not a new trend at all.

 

Yes. It is certainly not new, but most of the time young marriage results in divorce. People are not ready to be married until they can support themselves first.

[need2bme]

I hear ya. I got married the first time when I was very young and should never have.

 

The cause of the divorce was that the ex was CHEATING!!! Weird, huh?

[Leon]

Maybe communication is too much of a catch all. More detail required for that category?

 

Isn't it also possible to have excellent communication and one or both decide things aren't working?

 

I'd also like to add to the list that it could have nothing to do with any of those items listed - one person is just not ready to settle down - they want to explore!

 

See, it's people with that attitude that don't need to be dating. They treat relationships as experiments from the beggening. That's not the point ideally. In an intimate relationship you have another person's feelings in your hands. It's not a position to be playing games like this... Yet people carelessly do it anyway...

[hades]

Ehhh, here is where i stand, i think communication is #1 and effects everything. I can't see a single problem that isn't effected by communication. However good communication means listening, hearing, doing, talking, telling, sharing. I've been told to get a job for the better part of 4 years, i've had one for about a total of one year. It was great she communicated however i didn't listen, and i didnt do anyting about it.

 

Grown apart, and we arn't compatable i think are generally just excuses or ways to fool the break upers self. If you wern't compatable, you wouldn't be together. Compatability is not about you liking aerosmith and her liking JZ, it's about you having the same values and ideals. Those things don't change often during times.

 

Where i do see it as being a realitity, is if you've been through the teenage to collage stage, the collage to life stage, the life to kids stage, etc. Any stage where you actually have to change how you act, and the other aint there yet, or when substance abuse is involved. Well, i guess when someone doesn't grow up, like either are emotionally dependant, or don't work, or go flirt with girls type thing, then that would fall under here as well.

 

But i defently don't think any relastionship lasting more then 6 months could be in compatable. By then you know what the person wants, and is. A girl aint going to stay with a guy who don't wanna get married and have kids, if she's ready to settle down, nor is a guy going to stay with a girl who isn't loyal and trust worthy. Compatability has a funny way of ending short term relastionships before they can ever become long term.

[cantexplain]

AND just plain cheated, because she NEVER gave me true love and NEVER allowed me to really love her.

 

I feel for you. I have chased women like this, too.

 

Last night I reflected on what I said to you earlier and feel that I want to qualify my use of the word "gross". For me it is kind of an icky feeling when I am emotionally focused on another while the other is sexually intimate with more than one. Emotionally, it feels like products of her incomplete combustion of love dirty my devoted heart.

 

I am digging inside myself to see why I even try in these cases.

 

Lately, I've been thinking that maybe my childhood and relations with my parents have something to do with this.

 

One of my bosses in high school who had come to know me, once said, "[cantexplain], you are a parent to your parents."

 

So the seeds were planted young - this pattern of loving and nurturing where there is incomplete love and nurturance in return.

 

So I ask myself, why do these women seem so interested in me? I guess I am confusing their interest in casual sexual companionship with me for true, devoted, long-term companionship.

 

On the other hand, I think a part of me keeps beleiving that this is where these women just want to start - in time they will choose exclusivity with me. So far, this has not happened for me in this way. All my (more) successful long-term relationships started as old-fashioned dating romances.

 

I don't know how this relationship started for you - in your head or in hers.

 

Yet unless you, need2bme, and I are being lied to - then we are missing some clues (or the lack thereof) and idealizing that this other is capable of and/or interested in a deeper, committed relationship when theyr really just are not.

 

What you ask here reflects my suspicion in this regard:

 

Do any of you guys think that communication is sometimes lost, because we cloud our judgement with past trangessions in the relationship? Do you think that subconsciously we hold onto what we believe is being said, instead of what is actually being said, because of past feelings, when really we should be concentrating on the other person and trying to change the pattern?

 

So yes, I think you are right: rather than idealizing the potential in the other to feel deep and committed love for us, we should be stepping back and taking a harder look at the other.

 

Somewhere I read that love is an insanity that brings two people together beyond many other odds. In other words, that it is necessary to fall in love in order to be able to do the hard work necessary of making two lives resonate together in lifestyle and communication, including intimate relations. So from this point of view you and I are insane while they are not! Does that make any sense?

 

So bringing this post back to the point of the thread, perhaps break-ups occur because one person idealized that another is capable of a level of intimacy which she/he is not. (Note: We can substitute "intimacy" in that last sentence for many other qualities - like "honesty" or "devotion" and so on.)

 

Is this a communication problem? Well, yes, but it might be communication limited to within one person's mind.

[cantexplain]

Yes. It is certainly not new, but most of the time young marriage results in divorce. People are not ready to be married until they can support themselves first.

 

My thoughts on this are that the world is more complicated these days and it simply takes longer to grow-up.

 

(Exposure to adult themes at younger ages - i.e. the proverbial "people grow up too fast" - confounds the problem of people committing themselves before really discovering who they are in this very complex world of such a great many and varied influences.)

 

This would fall into the Growing Apart category of the original list, 'eh?

[cantexplain]

See, it's people with that attitude that don't need to be dating. They treat relationships as experiments from the beggening. That's not the point ideally. In an intimate relationship you have another person's feelings in your hands. It's not a position to be playing games like this... Yet people carelessly do it anyway...

 

Agreed 100%.

 

But those who are experimenting should be experimenting on other experimenters -- not people with devoted hearts.

 

And those of us with devoted-type hearts should accept that, at the very least, the timing is off if any of these experimenters want to experiment with our bodies and hearts.

 

So I'm thinking this would fall into the Communication category - even if the miscommunication is just with our self - within just one person's mind - not accepting the other as a open relationship type, and not understanding how harmful this can be for a committed-type person.

[need2bme]

So yes, I think you are right: rather than idealizing the potential in the other to feel deep and committed love for us, we should be stepping back and taking a harder look at the other.

 

cantexplain: I think you are on to something here. However, how do we know if we are idealizing or not? I know now that I was looking for something I wanted her to be, but so much more was missing. I also think that my view of her was sometimes skewed, by the way I looked at her for feeling as if she used me. So, in this I looked down on HER more than I should have. I could have fixed this with communication agreed, but how do you communicate to someone that you feel you are just being used (appropriately anyway, because I did my share of yelling).

 

Also, I know that in my case, without her communicating to me (she was very poor at communication), there was no way to tell if she was idealizing me, or not.

 

And those of us with devoted-type hearts should accept that, at the very least, the timing is off if any of these experimenters want to experiment with our bodies and hearts.

 

Could devoted hearts be a misnomer (if I can call it that ) as we are more in-love with an ideal and go into the relationship with a devoted heart, from the start? That would mean that ANYTHING that is then askew, which could even be harmless, would be taken out of context.

 

Just another 2 cents.

[cantexplain]

Well, you are right where I am about these things and I think we'll just have to scratch our heads together, on this one.

 

Firstly, generalizing anything is risky, real life is in the specifics. Just think how often cosmology and gravitational theory changes - trying to describe something constant about something which is constantly changing.

 

Bottom line: in relationships we have to be perceptive not just about the other, but also of one another and of our selves.

 

One of my favorite sayings about love is that it is an insanity necessary to bring two people together.

 

But once together, the work of real sanity must take place, obviously.

 

Over the years I have created my own list of things to look for and watch for in a mate. I can use that to make sure I am not idealizing a love interest as someone they are not. I am just learning how important it is to recognize my romantic feelings as early as possible so I can get on deck and start checking if this person is really gonna be okay for me in an intimate relationship -- before I get too crazy!

 

Problem is that the romantic feelings seem to precede the getting on deck and checking for shoals.

 

Its hard.

 

About the misnomer of a devoted heart: I am not too clear on your point here.

 

Are you saying that the devotion is an illusory one for an idealized other? And if love is an idealization, so then devotion is toward an illusion?

 

What I am saying is that some of us are devoted-type people who just don't cheat and will try very hard to make things work-out before a break-up. That is what I mean by a devoted heart - devoted even regardless of any initial illusions.

 

Ongoing illusions seems like a problem in the one with the illusion. Obviously, if devoted, this is where work must be done - with the illusion inside the person with the illusion.

 

In another thread today I wrote:

 

"I've heard that love is also an insanity necessary to bring two people together. I'm thinking lately there is not that much wrong with idealizing the other in somewhat realistic ways - tantamount to believing in another and being supportive, caring, faithful, trusting"

 

In the same thread I wrote about where I am these days on the definition of romantic love:

 

The exchange of two idealizations

The gift of ourselves to each other

Revering someone for who they are in and of themselves

Two people openly sharing their needs and wants and wanting what is good for the other

 

So yes, love is CRAZY! And it can also be quite fun, fulfilling, and safe - I still believe.

 

Here's another example -my dogs. That's one of them in the avatar to the left. See all his joy and happiness for life. This is a joy we create together. His joy brings me joy. He is devoted to me, I am sure. Am I the best dog daddy for him? - no, probably not. I don't have a bunch of land and time and kids - things that he'd like I am sure. Moreover, do I love another one of my dogs more? Yes, sadly I must concede that I probably do. Is he a good dog? Usually, but he can be quite the destructive trickster, too. He's caused a great deal of damage and frustration. But I am steadfastly devoted to him. Its a covenant I cannot break. His devotion to me is evident and I give the same in return. And I keep working with him on his training and I keep working on myself to be a better dog daddy. Its a process - this devotion thing.

 

On my list (my map of shoals) I seek devoted-type hearts - people who understand the power of a covenant of friendship, respect, and love.