Do women understand the stress a man has in society to become the provider?

[DN]

If there is such stress I am not sure that men understand the stress women go through in being stay at home mothers particularly since in traditional parlance that work doesn't count as a real job.

Perhaps but that is not what the OP is talking about in this particular thread.

 

This may be of interest - particularly to parents of boys: link removed

[Momene]

I'm sorry I haven't read all the replies but here's my take on it:

 

My situation is different from most people but these days it is most common for partners to share the burden of being the provider. Usually, one will be the primary earner, while the other takes more care of the kids, house, etc.

 

Raising a family has always been difficult financially but the cost of living is such in England that it's particularly hard. One of the main causes of stress for me is the worry over finance. It's also the main reason I don't see friends in real life, as I can't afford to go out. Yes, I did apply for a job in the US a few years ago but with my daughter in the final stages of school, now is not the time to move to another educational system.

 

I'm definitely thinking I won't end my life here unless I get some more money from somewhere.

[BrokenWingedFaery]

I think men are still seen as providers, the ones who are "supposed to be working". If a woman with kids works, it's sometimes veiwed as bad for the kids, even if their father is a stay at home dad. Gender stereotypes suck. Stereotypes of any kind suck. And that's what people end up having to deal with when it comes to this.

 

The OP mentioned that the chicks he works with talk about the "bling" their men have to have. I don't think you can entirely blame them for that. Alot of mothers (and fathers!) beat into their daughters that men should be fairly well off, or headed to being well off, before they're worth marrying. Sons tend to be raised with the attitude that money is important to females/that to be manly they must work. It's all stereotyping that's still acceptable to a degree in society. Not saying all, but alot.

 

Personally, I think both people in a marriage/relationship without kids should work if they're able, it's a good thing to have a job, in case the relationship falls thru, or someone gets sick/layed off/hurt/dies. I think it's important for both people to be able to be independent if need be.

[FortunateOne]

Perhaps but that is not what the OP is talking about in this particular thread.

 

This may be of interest - particularly to parents of boys: link removed

 

 

Great article. This is a valid contention I believe in and has contributed to my view.

[FortunateOne]

I completely agree with this since my best friend at the moment is the best wife candidate for me. All of you don't know my spiritual faith and this faith has a lot to contribute to my thoughts on raising children. For me to marry I would want the best attributes a woman can have to support my business and home school our children. This is viewed by many as too traditional, yet to have a potentially healthy relationship in my future I've had quite a lot of pressure to perform in the business world so I can provide the dream of a great marriage.

[Momene]

IN many (most) societies, the cost of everything is so high that people who aren't greedy by nature are forced to be so to provide a home, etc for their families.

[Batya33]

Perhaps but that is not what the OP is talking about in this particular thread.

 

This may be of interest - particularly to parents of boys: link removed

 

Well he is talking about the stress men have vis-a-vis women and to me that is a statement in a vaccuum without considering the stress women face, in turn. That most certainly affects the dynamics - and stress - of the relationship.

[DN]

I must say that I find it strange that so many people will not address the issue that the OP raises but instead find it necessary to counter with issues about what stresses women face. This thread is not a competition to see who has the most stress but raises an issue that many men face.

 

The fact that the OPs concern is largely unaddressed helps to explain why so many men don't talk about their worries and concerns - in public or within a relationship. Too many people don't listen or don't address his concerns or minimise them with counter-issues that women face.

 

Why tell men to be like women and voice their feelings and emotions and then essentially invalidate them?

[FortunateOne]

Thank you DN. This is why I posed this question.

[Batya33]

I must say that I find it strange that so many people will not address the issue that the OP raises but instead find it necessary to counter with issues about what stresses women face. This thread is not a competition to see who has the most stress but raises an issue that many men face.

 

The fact that the OPs concern is largely unaddressed helps to explain why so many men don't talk about their worries and concerns - in public or within a relationship. Too many people don't listen or don't address his concerns or minimise them with counter-issues that women face.

 

Why tell men to be like women and voice their feelings and emotions and then essentially invalidate them?

 

I would be surprised if you were addressing me as I did address his concerns in one of my posts.

[gnabna]

I must say that I find it strange that so many people will not address the issue that the OP raises but instead find it necessary to counter with issues about what stresses women face. This thread is not a competition to see who has the most stress but raises an issue that many men face.

 

The fact that the OPs concern is largely unaddressed helps to explain why so many men don't talk about their worries and concerns - in public or within a relationship. Too many people don't listen or don't address his concerns or minimise them with counter-issues that women face.

 

Why tell men to be like women and voice their feelings and emotions and then essentially invalidate them?

 

 

I have to say I concur. This is not an issue that we need to get defensive about. Men are trying to express that they tend to struggle with an overwhelming amount of stress and are not sure if their counterparts understand those feelings because they are not shared very often. If we want our men to talk we need to be better listeners and not become defensive.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

I answered his question directly and in the affirmative: Yes, of course many of us understand because many of us are in the same situation, so how could we not. It's like asking me at 5'2" if I understand what it's like to be petite? I think i do. And if I didn't, plenty of other women would.

[DN]

I answered his question directly and in the affirmative: Yes, of course many of us understand because many of us are in the same situation, so how could we not. It's like asking me at 5'2" if I understand what it's like to be petite? I think i do. And if I didn't, plenty of other women would.

This is what you said:

I assume that I must understand since I have been in the rat race providing for my self for decades now, with no help from a man whatsoever. Also, when I come home from a long hard days' work, I make my own dinner, vaccum my own rug, mow my own lawn etc. If I lose my job, there is no question of help from a partner, I must do whatever is necessary to earn money or say goodbye to the roof over my head.

 

Which is not the same thing that the OP was asking. You are providing for yourself. The OP was talking about the expectation that a man be responsible for providing for others in his family and rarely has any choice to do anything else without incurring dispprobation. In other words; few men get the choice of being a stay-at-home Dad even if finances permit without adverse reactions from many people.

[Batya33]

But that is a universal problem/issue - whether to do something that might get an "adverse reaction" from other people. If I based my decisions on that I would not be anywhere near where I am today in terms of my career or self-esteem.

[DN]

But again, and with respect. This is tantamount to dismissing his concern. He has something that he needs to express, something that he is trying to get folks to understand and people seem to be saying "well, we all have problems - get over it".

 

That is not what eNotAlone is about. We are here to help people, support them and advise them constructively. It's fine to disagree but I don't think it helps to minimise or dismiss his concern.

 

If someone wants to express the difficulties in being a single mother, that is fine. But perhaps that is better on its own thread so it doesn't seem to be shoving aside what the OP is talking about.

[Batya33]

But again, and with respect. This is tantamount to dismissing his concern. He has something that he needs to express, something that he is trying to get folks to understand and people seem to be saying "well, we all have problems - get over it".

 

That is not what eNotAlone is about. We are here to help people, support them and advise them constructively. It's fine to disagree but I don't think it helps to minimise or dismiss his concern.

 

If someone wants to express the difficulties in being a single mother, that is fine. But perhaps that is better on its own thread so it doesn't seem to be shoving aside what the OP is talking about.

 

I understand that is what others are doing. When the topic of male stress in a family situation is brought up it is important to discuss the woman's corresponding stress because often they play off each other, enhance the other's stress because of the lack of communication.

 

As far as support I agree with you and also feel that the topic was raised more with a confrontational tone and where it did not seem the OP wanted to understand perspectives as opposed to just venting. Venting is fine but is not consistent always with requesting support. Just my opinion!

[DN]

I understand that is what others are doing. When the topic of male stress in a family situation is brought up it is important to discuss the woman's corresponding stress because often they play off each other, enhance the other's stress because of the lack of communication.

 

 

I cannot fully agree with this unless you can be sure that one problem is caused or impacted by another. A relationship is not a competition or playing "me too". Deal with issues as they arise.

 

I can guarantee, that in most cases, matching a partners' issues or concerns with one your own will be counter-productive. A relationship is not a tally-sheet that has to be kept even.

 

I can't imagine that a woman experiencing PMS for instance would be enthusiastic about her partner responding by talking about his recurring knee injury instead of trying to understand where she is coming from.

 

But, more to the point here, the OP is not asking someone with whom he is in a relationship to understand his position. He is asking members of eNotAlone.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

This is what you said:

 

 

Which is not the same thing that the OP was asking. You are providing for yourself. The OP was talking about the expectation that a man be responsible for providing for others in his family and rarely has any choice to do anything else without incurring dispprobation. In other words; few men get the choice of being a stay-at-home Dad even if finances permit without adverse reactions from many people.

 

Yes, and I also said this:

Yeah, it's hard for single moms. I grew up in a single parent family. My mother worked hard and didn't make a lot of money. And unlike the traditional family the OP was referring to, my mother had the sole responsibility of taking care of the car, the house, anything that broke down, the lawn, etc. Especially of course when we were younger.

Do you really think I can possibly not understand? I grew up immersed in it, and living with the ramifications of it.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I'm an engineer, my research group is the only group in the department that is equal numbers men and women. We all work hard and all have the same stress and issues. We are equal and the stress we deal with is equal. There are several married people and they have very supportive spouses that are not engineers, we socialize together a lot and their spouses know they work very hard and have stress. I don't think it has anything to do with gender, it, like most things, is individual. Consideration and empathy are severely lacking nowadays in a society that emphasizes material goods and money. Don't blame women in general, look at people.

[FifthLine]

Some of the responses from women here are all too typical. The media is full these days of how hard is is to be a woman in this modern world.

 

But let a man say something about the challenges and expectations he has and he gets jumped on by women who immediately want to change the subject back to their issues.

 

The guy who started this thread may as well talk to a wall. So do what guys have been conditioned to do: don't complain, don't ask for understanding. Just suck it up, do your job and keep your nose to the grindstone.

 

Oh, and make sure you listen to her complaints and problems at the same time. You don't want to be an insenstive male do you?

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

We do understand. The original question assumes that many of us are not dealing with the same issues ourselves. I agree with Carnelian that it is not a gender issue. Men and women today both have workplace stress and struggles and financial responsibilities. It's also a bit like a woman asking a man "Do you men understand how hard it is for us women to run a marathon?" The question makes little sense, IMO.

[FifthLine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are from women making an honest effort to understand without saying "it's the same for us". It isn't the same for you unless you are a woman in the same situation - i.e. being expected to be the family breadwinner without a choice in the matter?

 

How is that the same as being single and only responsible for yourself? How is that same as being expected to work if your wife chooses to be a stay at home Mom?

 

That's what the guy is trying to say. But his POV is just dissed because "it's the same for us".

[FifthLine]

According to Catalyst, a consulting group that specializes in research on women in business, 22 percent of women who hold graduate or professional degrees are now at home with their children. This includes one in three women with M.B.A.'s who are not working full-time.

 

How many men get to make that choice?

[itsallgrand]

I had a reply all typed out and it got wiped before I could post. D'oh! Anyways...

to the original q...

 

I understand the stresses as far as I understand it. I am not a super-ambitious person (which isn't to say I lack ambition completely) and I do not live a lavish lifestyle.

 

I've been close to men who work hard to maintain that "perception of stability and security that all women want", and men who don't work hard to do that. And men in between. In various fields and pursuing various lifestyles.

 

I do understand that for men, often, there is added pressure to appear (though preferably Be) affluence, have a high status position, and make a big splash in the 'big world'.

 

I don't understand the willingness to sacrifice time with family, spouse, and other important elements to living in order to be a Big Kahuna. 'Cause, that has never been a dream of mine or a pressure I have felt.

 

Strictly speaking for myself - and I believe there are other out there - I would like to be with a man who IS stable and secure. But I expect to provide that as well (at least now I do!).

 

Yes, I understand that women can find spouses easier even if they are nutso, financial bereft, and wanting to stay and take care of kiddos at home (or just stay at home and go to the salon). I believe that is valid and real.

 

But those women are moochers. lol. So the real concern - apart from desiring a good spouse/woman - is the why are you placing this pressure on yourself?

 

that's my 2 cents. I hope I contributed in some way. T.C.

[FifthLine]

link removed