Treating women nice simply doesnt seem to work.

[JonnyG]

I've had enough! This nice guy approach simply does not work.

I've posted a thread like this before and was told by girls to keep on at it and dont become

an ***hole. But that was over a year ago and the results are just not happening.

 

To sum up the last thread and my new pathetic year.

Throughout my life I have witnessed the bad boys with girls and the good guys lagging

behind.

 

Since school. The most popular guy was hated by the girls. When he wasen't in the room they

were all saying how much of an arrogant *** he was etc. Really backstabbing him. But all of

them went out with him if he asked them out. My older brother told me the exact same thing

happened with him in his year, the guy treated them real bad yet they all kept going out

with him when he clicked his fingers.

 

Another friend of mine was seeing 2 girls nearly at the same time. Both girls were best

friends but he would go out with 1, then the other, then back to the first. He did this 3

times with each of them, before he couldn't be bothered to be with either of them. The thing

is, as much as he is a friend, the fact is he wasen't a great looker, and obviously going

back and forth between them without a care in the world, he wasent the nicest of guys to

them. But yet they both went out with him like 3 times each.

 

Another friend of mine treats woman awful. He will go out with a girl, then forget about

them whenever he feels like it. He will go off looking for another girl even though the girl

he is ment to be seeing doesnt even know they have split up. Doesn't seem to care a dam

about them, yet he does well with the women. And were not talking about innocent girls who

don't know what hes like. These girls know each other and must surely say to each other that

he treats them awful.

 

Thats some examples of old school friends (Although the last paragraph was about a friend

who i believe still acts like this to this day). Altho they are friends, I can't agree with

how they treat girls. So much for girls being more mature than guys at this age as well.

 

Now more present times. A friend of mine has a friend who has cheated on his girl 3 times

(at least). He admitted to her once and yet she is still with him, even tho he treats her

really bad. But shes still with him.

 

I have a flatm8 who pretty much will have sex with anything female that moves. And even when

he is in a relationship he will try to pull/sleep with other girls if his gf isnt there. And

when hes with her the main reason he wants her around is for sex and thats it. If shes lucky

he will take her to an "All u can eat" restaurants and "Bring your own alcohol" Indians

(wow, pushing the boat out there). 1 gf he was seeing he asked her to bring along vodka in

her purse each time they went out so he could just buy the lemonade. Hes been working years

but is so tight fisted its untrue. For Christmas with one of his ex's she bought him loads

of nice/expensive gifts that were useful for HIM. He bought her a nurse outfit (for his

sexual pleasure), a tight Morgan t-shirt (for his sexual pleasure) and sexy underwear (for

his sexual pleasure). He didnt buy her anything that was specifically for her. And no, its

not his ex because she dumped him. He dumped her.....3 times (obviously needed sex sometimes

so went back out with her when on a draught phase and threw her away when he didnt need

her). He is now seeing another girl and again sleeping with other girls behind her back. He

happily admits to being a "*******" and treatng girls badly.

 

My other flatm8 i have discussed these problems with said that of all his gf's the one he

treated the worst seemed the most keen on him.

 

I discussed these problems with some girl i know online and she said girls like being

treated mean, but not too mean. Its just plain stupid!!!!!

*******************

I like girls and as the saying goes "Treat others how you would like to be treated". So I

treat the girls I fancy nice, because I want to make them happy.This makes sense!

 

My younger brother went out with a girl for nearly 2 years and got on well with her. Then 1

day she just decided he was "boring" and then went off and slept with like 4 ppl in 2 weeks

and then decided she really wanted him back. He didnt go back to her. He was pretty messed

up for a good load of months. His last gf things were going fine but she then started to

constantly start arguments about the smallest of things and she was so stubborn that my

brother said he gav up arguing back cause she would just shout him down. It got too much for

him and he decided it was not best to see her anymore. She spent the next 6 months trying

to get him back. The only thing he did with these 2 girls was to treat them nicely only for

them to just throw it back in his face.

 

Amazingly the flatm8 I described above who treats his gfs badly actually found one girl he

really liked, so he actually treated her nicely. Its hilarious, she left him after a couple

of weeks. * * *!!!! (Go on Mark, go back to treated them badly, its the way forward, im

starting to learn this now)

 

For myself. Well, in the younger days I was never so keen with girls, but any i spent time

with I treated nice but nothing really came from it. Nowadays, unfortunately I have the

problem of liking older women, so things are harder. Ill try sum things up quick:

 

I met M (about 8 years older, divorced and has a child) 2 years ago or so. We went out for 6

weeks. Treated her like a princess, we got on really quite well, things seemed to be getting

better and better. Then her ex (not the father) wanted her back, as they were apprantly on a

temperory break as things were getting serious and he was younger than her and needed to

think. She wasent sure if they would be getting back together and so took an interest in me.

As I had only been with her for 6 weeks and him around 10 months it was "bye bye" to me.

 

Last year, out of the blue M tx me. It had been 9 months since i heard from her and 14

months or so since i last saw her. We ended up meeting up and going out again. She told me

she had been single for 6 months and things obviously didnt work out with the last guy and

she said she should not have split with myself. Yep. I was over the moon again. This time we

just seemed to click better. We met up more and we tx/phoned more. Things were really well.

Roll on 6 weeks and it all falls apart again. She said that she couldnt be dealing with a

serious relationship and she needed to find someone older and financial better off than

myself. I was gutted again. But at least this time It didnt feel so bad as I could

understand why she should be wanting an older guy and someone who can look after her and her

daughter.

 

*** A little info on her past bfs:

The funny thing about M is that her past seems full of bad boys. Her ex husband sounds a

nightmare, a real lonney. She had a bf who cheated on her (least once because she caught him

at it), a bf who was a full time druggie, a bf who took her to a swingers party when she

didnt have a clue (hhmm i wonder if he cheated on her also), a bf who was so obesssed with

himself he didnt care about her at all. And the recent guy who she saw before me apparently

started to treat her and her daugther really badly for sometime and eventually she gave up

with him. And what hurts the most is despite all these guys letting her down big time, I

think I spent less time with her on both occasions (perhaps even put together) than these

jerks did with her. ********

 

Since that split with M in the summer we have kept in touch by tx and we get on fine. I

still miss her. She comes out of her shell when she's had a few to drink and tells me she

misses me and wishes i was there with her, but typically enough ive never been able to meet

when this has happened. This would of been my chance to meet her and show her what shes

missing (Im so pathetic I know, i should just move on, havent I lerned from the first 2

times?).

 

At work, there was this girl who I liked, not the best looking to a lot of people but she

looked nice to me, and she was a nice girl. I told people about this and everyone was like

"u could do so much better", but that really isnt the point, i liked her. Unfortunately she

had a bf. But just before she left the company we discovered she was no longer with this

guy, and with her leaving do coming up, i thought that was the time to say something. O

well, this got messed up when I arrived to discover that she is chatting to the one guy in

the office she had told everyone "would be the last guy I would go out with". The reason for

this. He's an arrogant jerk. I never thought he was that bad but every1 else thought he was

a tool. This girl apparently didnt like him because she was with everyone else i.e. in

agreement thats hes a jerk, but wow, she is now going out with him.

 

 

I met another girl in november. This lady (G) was pretty much perfect. Stunning looks. A

heart of gold. My only complaint was that she was a smoker, and of course the small matter

of her age. She is 35. So over 10 years older than myself. Over the weeks I saw G I just

found her more and more attractive and at last found that there were others out there who i

could REALLY like. I spent 2 months with her. Had a great time. She is the best girl I have

ever spent time with in all honesty. Again treated her real well. She treated me real well

at least, But after those 2 months it came to the crunch. I was thinking no matter how much

i like her, she really is old and this was playing on my mind. She was thinking the same.

She was thinking how she wanted to marry again and have children and at 35 she hadent all

the time in the world for the latter. She decided in January just before my Birthday that it

was not best to continue. I was gutted.

 

 

Roll on to February. Im out and i tx her M. We chat away a bit and she tells me where she

is. I thought that this was my opportunity to do something at last as I have unfortunately

missed out on the other chances of seeing her out and actually being able to chat to her in

person. I meet up with her and discover that she now has a bf. Literally just a couple of

weeks ago she got together with this guy. Its been a total of like 6 months that i havent

been going out with her. But we have kept in contact and of course amazingly everytime I had

the chance to meet up, perhaps change her mind and give it another chance i have some how

never rec the tx at a good time. I just cant believe it that now im single again and a night

comes where I thought I had the chance to perhaps change her mind, she now has a bf.

The timing couldnt have been better. I was still obviously upset after G, and now the other

girl in my life is seeing someone else after 6 months of been single and always looking like

there was a hope (sorry, i know how pathetic it must all sound).

 

 

I miss M & G loads. M is with someone now and really doesnt give two ***** about me now.

I've been in denile with her, its obvious that she only wants me to boost her ego. Spent 6

weeks with me and dropped me. Spent 6 weeks again with me the year after and dropped me.

Spent 6 months txing me and always looking like a chance but whenever i tried to hint at

going out again she didnt play along unless she had a few to drink and would tell me she

missed me. I guess I feel she likes me but simply the age gap is just a real problem. But it

hurts that now she has this new guy I have been dropped yet again as im not needed. I've

just been left dangiling on a line ready for her to reel in when she feels like and now she

is with this other guy she hasent sent a tx in 2 months. Hell, i can accept she has some1,

it just hurts just showing how obvious i was there as the ego boost only.

 

It came to last weekend, I woke up hungover and depressed as usual. G always told me to say

what i feel and be honest etc. So I did exactly that. My head says its stupid but my heart

says I miss her (cheesy I know). Have been since January. So I tx her to tell her. To my

surprise she responded and told me she was ok and going on hols with some guy she used to be

with at work but she coudnt see a future with him. She asked if i fancied meeting up on

friday (Today) and i said ok.......after work last night I tx to ask if she still wanted to

meet? I had no reply. I waited til night, a good 5 hours later but nothing. Possibly didnt

go through so i asked again incase. It now 3pm (I wrote this part yesterday) and I have no

reply and were meant to meet today. Shes just blanked me. Her idea to meet and she has just

blanked me. Of all the girls in my life she is the nicest, most down to earth girl, she is

great. I cannot believe of all the people to not reply its her. Shes always honest and

thoughtful. That really hurts.

 

O well. I've started my bad boy phase anyway, got a lot to learn. but I did meet a lady K 8

weeks ago. I discovered after meeting her that she is with someone. Im not sure if its on

the rocks, but the now little devil to the right side of my head tells me "who cares

anymore!". O well, its not really working anyway, I mean, spent the last 8 weeks

complimenting her and trying to intiate things as she said she wanted to do but she also

just seems to want me around pretty much like M as an ego boost. Its funny, always been nice

to her, tried to set up meetings and yet we only met once and we had a good time. She really

wanted to meet again and was sad we didnt kiss, so i have tried to set up more dates, but

she does a great job at ignoring half my txs when she feels like and leaving things til the

last minute to say "no, i cant meet". Literally she will speak to me when she wants to speak

to me. Its funny that she called me the other day and we spoke and we had a good time and

she asked what i was doing this weekend (not to meet up, simply curious). I told her the

truth and mentioned i was meeting my "X" (G) for "just a drink" amongst other things. The

conversation continued it all seemed fine. After the phone call she tx to tell me she didnt

need to know about me meeting my X HAHAHAHAHA hilarious. It appears that despite offering

myself on a plate and grovelling around her feet worshipping the ground she walks on, that

she is a tad jealous. Obiously she is with someone has someone to hold, kiss, have sex with

and i cant even meet X's cause thats harsh. Needless to say I flip. but the pathetic side in

me, despite being the victim has come around over the last few days and ive asked if she is

ok despite her not really apologising to me in regards to her stupid comment.

 

O well, the 3 more recent people in my life I have any feelings for all have someone. They

all seem happy now. Im the only one feeling utter awful as i've been chewed and spat out by

all 3 i feel (well 2 really as dont feel so bad with G just sad). Argueably K is not 100%

happy with her relationship, although she did say she is not like this and there is just

something about me. She's right, im a total mug who doesnt let women walk over him, I let

them trample me into a pulp into the ground.

 

It could be very well argued that I am picking the wrong people to start with. I couldnt

agree more. Unfortunately I tend to prefer older women because I find them more mature and

pleasant people, plus they actually show an interest in me. And ultimately I find younger

girls more intimidating. Hell, with all that ton of make up on they can actually make

themselves up to your standard of looks, even perhaps better. With that wonder bra and

wonder bum they can show off their assets in a false way. The santra paye (however the

tanning stuff is spelt), the nifty clothes, the load of jewellary, the incredibly sexy

underwear, the magazines enforcing "girl power". No wonder they feel too good for most

people. But, ill try though, get myself rejected a few times by the not incredibly

attractive girl who was saved by make up, who has a bit of a few extra pounds on her by save

by the corset, who hasent the biggest boobs but saved by the wonder bra, who hasent a real

nice attitude but saved???? by girl powah!! I love getting rejected time and time again

from these girls who think there simply better than u despite if they clearly looked at

themselves are not. And yet those older girls who are more attractive, nicer people seem to

find me attractive. But alas, im screwed anyway due to age problems.

 

I could go on whining all day.

 

I have said this before but im fascinated by girls who complain that their guy treats them

badly when in reality they seem to like the challenge. And then when the challenge gets too

much and the split happens they complain that all men are jerks! Stop encouraging them to

treat u badly then and get with guy who treats u nicely. Fair does he might not be the most

exciting guy in the world but at least he cares about u and will be a decent husband/father.

And heh, crazy thought but maybe if u give him a chance he can becoming more exciting. The

problem is that girls seem to like trying to change a bad boy, but they dont like changing a

nice guy to a more exciting guy.

 

 

So why is it a lot of you girls like these guys who treat you so badly? And if u like them

for the excitment stop complaining when they cheat on u or become real ***holes because u

know what your getting yourself into.

 

Im ready to get slaugthered now by everyone inc guys. To be honest I cant feel much lower so

I can accept the abuse. I am a troubled guy these days I guess with some issues.

 

 

1 thing in my defense, I really am not trying to put all girls in the same basket. Im not

trying to say there arent girls out there who dont appreciate the nicer guy.

Its just in my experience im starting to wonder what I should bother doing. I do take things

too seriously I guess for my age. I really should be out having fun as people say (become a

male **** basically) and not care about anyone til im older. Maybe ill start trying to pull/

have relationships with as many people as possible and not care about feelings, but ill put

a note in my diary at 28 years of age to become serious and care about someone.

 

 

P.S. I phoned G (this was yesterday), no reply. Then a tx to tell me she thought she replied

last night and said she didnt think it was a good idea to meet. It was her suggestion to

meet as well *sigh*. O well, at least with her I know its the best interests at heart and we

just chatted a bit by tx so I don't feel too bad. Dam, i was so born in the wrong

generation, if i was the same age as M & G I reackon id still be with one of them, however,

ill probably be ugly, bald and fat by 30 something and so they wouldnt want me

 

My heart really has just been pounded to death since Christmas.

 

P.P.S I went out last night. Had a good time. Then came home with my mate, grab a pizza.

Some random guy came up to me and started shouting "Are u looking at my bird?!" Next thing I

know I got ****ed in the face, full on the nose. Blood pouring out of my nostrils. I did not

look any girl, I hadent a clue what he was on about. When I had half recovered from this

random punch, I confronted this guy (funny enough not even knowing who exactly it was who

hit me and kicked off). This guy was about to have his *** handed to him as im not a small

guy (7 years in the gym), and the very worse that could of happened is he could of hit me

again but at least my mate could step in, but I accept an apology while his gfs (yes, 3 of

them) were pleading with me not to kill him. hhmmm this random thug surrouneded by women who

like him for being a simple thug. At least they all said he was a **** while I kicked off,

but that is despite the point that this guy is surrounded by women for simply being a

****!!!

Hhmmm that was a nice moan...

[itsallgrand]

Wow. Feel better after that nice vent, jonny?

[JonnyG]

Wow. Feel better after that nice vent, jonny?

 

In a way. Have a lot to get off my chest.

[itsallgrand]

Keep going if you still have stuff to get rid off.

[JonnyG]

Keep going if you still have stuff to get rid off.

 

haha, maybe u will just cheer me up.

[itsallgrand]

Hehe. Cool. There was some funny stuff in your post. I don't know if you necessarily see it as funny right now, but there are some good stories. And some of your descriptions cracked me up.

[CharLit]

Hey JohnnyG, have a hug: HUG!

 

PLease remain a nice guy, there are not enough of you around! I have a few comments on your story:

 

1) You're right, there are certainly girls out there who go for the ***holes: one of my best friends is a well-educated, sociable, beautiful young woman at the beginning of a great career, but for some reason she always goes for these high-drama relationships with guys who treat her badly or who have so many problems of their own they have nothing left to give to anyone else. It completely baffles me. I think with her the attraction must be the drama, relationships are her favourite topic of conversation, and the one time she was with a really nice, sweet guy, after about a year she broke it off because yep, she was bored. However, that is one woman out of my entire circle of friends - the rest of us all want or have nice, interesting guys. Which leads me to the question, as you already suggest yourself, do you perhaps fall for the type of girl that likes mean guys? Because there are plenty of others out there and you don't seem to be going for them. Ask about their past relationships, and if there's a lot of drama, run!

 

2) despite what a nice guy you are, you display a pretty negative attitude to women in your post (need make-up & corsets to make them look good, think they're too good for everyone etc.). I realise this attitude has come from your past experiences, but are you sure it doesn't show in any way? It's amazing what people can pick up on... Also, again, are you not going for the wrong women if this is what you think they're like? I don't associate with anyone like this, and I have a huge circle of female friends - and they can't be the only nice ones in the world unless my hometown is some kind of vortex that sucks in all the nice people. Maybe you should move here?

 

3) Especially reading about your relationship with M: do you realise you're doing the same thing as the girls who go for the ***holes? You keep going back to her even though it sounds like she's just using you as her rebound boy in between relationships. Maybe examining your relationship with her could help you to understand the girls better: why did you take her back each time?

 

you. 4) Though it's sad that your relationship with G didn't work out, it isn't part of the women-don't-like-nice-guys problem: she wants to start a family, doesn't have much time to do it, and you're too young to do it with. As a man, you wil probably never know how overpowering the urge to have a child can be: you can't blame her leaving you for that on you being 'too nice' for her. As for her not meeting with you anyway: well, she didn't leave you because she doesn't like you, but for the practical consideration that she wants someone to start a family with. Chances are she misses you too and wanted to meet in a moment of weakness, but then thought the better of it as it can only be painful for both of you as there can be no future for you. But yes, she should have let you know that in stead of just not showing. People often try to communicate by NOT doing or saying something ("letting someone down gently") , and though it obviously doesn't work very well, it needn't have an evil intent.

As for K - well, she was two-timing to begin with, and no matter how unhappy she is in her relationship, doesn't that tell you something about the kind of person she is? Steer clear of people like this!

 

5) My theory on the attraction of bastards, and it is just a theory, but makes sense to me:

I've never gone for them (bar one when I was 16, but I ran a mile as soon as I found out what he was really like). My partner is the sweetest, most caring guy you could imagine: puppies, kittens and small children make him melt. If I get home late, he has dinner ready and has waited to eat because he wants to eat with me, if i have to get up and go to work hours before he does he gets up too and makes me coffee & breakfast while I shower, he's always hugging and kissing me. I do all these things for him too, by the way, it's complete give and take. And I love all this about him so much, especially the fact that 3,5 years down the line it hasn't changed a bit!

 

Now for the bastard-theory part: one of the other things I love about him, which I think is a trait he probably shares with ***holes and which might be part of their attraction, is his confidence. Yep, he loves kittens, and if he has male friends over he has absolutely no problem in showing them this supercute video of a little ginger kitten he's found on the web. He completely holds his own in an argument or debate (though he can be convinced of a different standpoint if the arguments are well made), he doesn't let people wind him up, ever. He's not afraid to speak his mind, but will only do so if there's a point to it, not if it will just hurt whom he's talking to (for instance, I can't imagine that his opinion about my bum is any different from mine, but he'll never say so He's very good at his job and certain arts, and he's confident in this, too, but doesn't brag, and doesn't mind asking for help with something I or someone else is better at. In short, he's totally comfortable with being himself. It doesn't just attract women, everyone likes and respects him, and insecure young men really look up to him as a kind of rolemodel.

 

I think the ***holes out there are probably the same in that they are confident, and that is a very large part of why women find them attractive. A lot of women like a man who is sweet and caring, but who will also stand up for himself - not a doormat, if I suggest something my partner doesn't want to do he just says it (as in places to go etc. i mean - i don't particularly want to do the dishes either, but we both realise there are certain things you can't avoid

 

As for the sociopaths like the idiot who punched you.... well, that's a scary personality disorder which unfortunately also comes with an incredibly charming side to it (this was the case with the guy i fell for when i was 16) and it takes a while for the scary side to show through the charm - and even when it does the charm is still there often enough that some women are willing to stay for it.

 

Finally, the attraction of messed-up types, the drug addicts, depressives etc.: I think they appeal to women's protective/mothering instincts, they think they can save them.

 

Johnny, I really hope you stay nice, and that you will find someone who appreciate you for everything you are: in the end , isn't that the kind of person you want to be with?

 

Take care!!

 

C

[orgasmictofu]

Sorry dude, I didn't read the whole post. I just got off a graveyard shift and have been awake for way too long.

 

But this first line:

 

I've had enough! This nice guy approach simply does not work. [emphasis mine]

 

Excuse me, but "approach"? You're describing it as a tactic. A plan to get chicks.

 

Why not just be yourself? You can be yourself and still be darling to the ladies. You can be yourself and still be a jerk sometimes. And someone will love you for it.

 

Stop worrying so much about changing yourself so much and be who you are. You WILL find love being yourself. Trust me.

[JonnyG]

Thx for the reply CharLit. to answer your points:

 

1) I already admit I've bumped in the wrong people, i.e. older. Its a pity I prefer them. Although of course the problem then is that im too young for anything more than fun. I found younger girls, as i stated, difficult to get anywhere with.

 

2) Sorry, as i also stated, I don't want to categorise all girls. Although in the thread its probably come accross like this. I find many younger girls very "up themselves" so to speak. Probably again, why i do better with older girls is because theyn dont act so much like this. I am not a "women hater" despite the thread, The most frustrating thing about women is as much as they annoy me, u love them .

 

3) Yep, I agree, think im in denile and im doing the same thing going back to M who doesnt treat me great. So im being hippocritical here. but its not helped by the fact that I find it difficult to find people. If I knew there was girl after girl waiting it wouldnt be as hard to forget about people u like.

 

4) No, I dont blame G at all. She has been the best girl I've met, she was pretty much perfect and i understand why she thinks its not good to go out.

 

Thankfully she did reply as i said (I would of been surprised and hurt had she not as wouldnt expect it from her) and we talked about it and she decided not a good time to meet as im still upset so thats fair enough.

 

 

As for K. I admit, im an idiot (to put it politely). Think desperation is starting to happen in me.

 

5) Im glad u have someone who treats u right and u appreciate it, hope things continue for u.

 

Yes, im need to work on my confidence/self esteem. Think its gotten dragged to an all time low unfortunately. Its sad when i look at myself and i see quite a good looking guy, with quite a good body, and im in general just a nice guy, think im a good catch, yet im not happy. And i feel guilty im not happy when there's others out there with real problems.

 

 

Thx again for the reply.

[Spawn]

hmm.....nice guys are gulity of being nice guys when they shud be standing up for themselves if some women is treating crap out of them.

 

I too am guilty of takin hell of a lot of crap from my ex, but she being so sensitive and my first gf i took it didn't have that courage to tell her to stop that. But realized i just was makin a jerk out of myself and giving her reasons for taking me for granted the next time she treats me bad.

 

I don't mind being the nice guy but i don't want to take crap from girls anymore....now where are all the nice girls for the nice guys.

[CharLit]

Hey hun, wasn't trying to accuse you of being hypocritical! (or trying to attack you with any of the other things i said, i hope it didn't come accross that way) I just meant that if you examine why you kept going back to M, you might gain a better understanding of why women display the same kind of behaviour, and be less annoyed about it.

 

And yep, getting over any relationship takes a while, the more deeply you cared the longer, i'm really not saying you should just get over G and others.

 

I know there's far fewer young people - of both sexes - looking for 'the real thing' rather than just a bit of fun, esp. in the clubbing scene. Could you perhaps take up a 'serious' activity (learning a foreign language, art, climbing, photography, whatever floats your boat) where you might meet people with a more serious outlook on life in general and thereforeee on relationships as well? And less corsets and make-up to boot

 

On feeling guilty: please don't. You will always, always find someone out there who has it worse than you. If you reason like that none of us are ever allowed to feel sad again: As a teenager i was pretty cut up about my parents' divorce, but my friend's father died when she was 13 , which of course is far worse, at least i still had both my parents. However, her tragedy didn't take away my right to be unhappy about my family breaking up or make my feelings less valid.

I'm currently stressed out about money, and even though there are people dying for lack of food and clean water elsewhere in the world which is horrendous and shameful for those of us who have it better, surely i'm still allowed to be nervous about my rather large study-debt?

 

As for your situation: (and i really hope i don't offend anyone with this, it's not my intention!) singledom and partying etc. are glorified in today's society, and that's great for everyone who is happy with it. However, study after study shows that in general, people in a stable fulfilling relationship are happier than singles. It seems that a relationship is the more natural state for most human beings to be in. There's nothing wrong with wanting that and being unhappy that you're not finding it at the moment!

 

You do know your merits & that you're a good catch: build from there, don't define yourself by your current lack of relationship. That is just one aspect of life, there must be a million other things that you are good at and that ARE working out.

 

take care,

 

C

[CharLit]

Oh, and yoga! Take up yoga, the woman to man ratio in my class is about 10:1, the people there are of all ages and tend to be the more spiritually-inclined, AND it makes you relaxed and bendy!

[JonnyG]

I wasent offended by anything u said CharLit, your reply was great.

 

Spawn, I think the problem for me is that I don't stand up for myself with some women, I dont speak my mind. Like i said, I dont let women walk over me. I let them trample over me. I was actually proud and relieved when I actually let it out against K when she wound me up and told her what I thought.

 

Last summer when I was seeing M, one of the things I dont like about her is how much she brings up past bfs. She would tell me about how good looking some of them were, or their great bodies. There was 1 person she told me about who she said was so good looking she said she could stare at him all day (she never stares at me all day so i assume in her opinion he's better looking). Another she told me had a body with made her mouth drop (her mouth never dropped with me so i assume in her opinion his body was better). Obviously I dont expect to be literally stared at all day or make her mouth drop, but u get my point. The fact was that I was being told to my face this info and i didnt want to hear it. Then one night I was out without her and she asked the next day if there were any good looking girls out? I jokingly said that there was this one girl out who was nearly as hot as her. She then proceeded to tell me she didnt need to know this and I was "tacless"! O M G! She tells me continously about her bfs who were good looking or amazing bodies i.e. least as good looking as me and body as nice as mine if not more, and yet when I mention 1 girl that was "nearly" as hot as her, she complains. I was very angry at how hippocritical it was and couldnt believe why she was so hostile about it all. But did I complain back???? No, of course not, I was angry and felt I had done nothing wrong and I deserved to be complaining at her, not the other way round. Instead I just ended up apologising . Stupid

 

I definitely need to work on my confidence/self esteem etc. I know M does have feelings for me and finds me attractive but at the same time I think shes fully aware she can click her fingers and ill come running. I think K thinks like this as well. And unfortunately with the way I am these days when I am with a girl I like itll be the same probably with any of them. Where's my pride gone?

 

Lost confidence/self/esteem/pride, need to find them again. Then I really need to stop taking things so seriously. I know deep down that im am quite a good looker, and i know my physique is quite good. I know that im in general a nice (almost dont want to use this word) guy. I may not be the most intelligent guy, but I think im a good catch, and friends agree. I dont know how i've ended up becoming so pathetic these days.

[Caldus]

It's all good to be a nice guy (as long as you don't go overboard with it) but if you don't have that confidence, they won't ever be attracted to you except in very rare cases.

[CharLit]

Well you're doing a good job of faking intelligence in your posts then Jonny!

 

They way M talks about her exes is cruel and clearly intended to hurt you, there is no possible other reason for doing that. People shouldn't slag off their exes (unless the ex has done something truly awful and they need to get it off their chest), but there's no reason at all to talk about them like that either. Please steer clear of M, she really doesn't sound like a very nice person and she is CERTAINLY not helping your self-esteem.

 

Have you tried self-help books on confidence-building? I'm sure there's plenty out there. Maybe the people on this board could recommend something?

 

hug,

 

C

[JonnyG]

Yes Caldus. When Im seeing someone my confidence goes up. Unfortunately its down after the recent situation with M, G and K. And further down from any girl who recently looked at me like the stuff the dog left on the floor when I approached them on a nightout (which doesnt happen too much because Im quite picky and I usual wait for hints rather than take my chances and rack up a large "rejection" list ) Which brings me to CharLits post before where I didnt really answer back.

 

"despite what a nice guy you are, you display a pretty negative attitude to women in your post (need make-up & corsets to make them look good, think they're too good for everyone etc.). I realise this attitude has come from your past experiences, but are you sure it doesn't show in any way? It's amazing what people can pick up on... Also, again, are you not going for the wrong women if this is what you think they're like? I don't associate with anyone like this, and I have a huge circle of female friends - and they can't be the only nice ones in the world unless my hometown is some kind of vortex that sucks in all the nice people. Maybe you should move here"

 

Sorry, again I want to emphasis, I dont want to put all girls in the same boat, that I know is rubbish.

 

My point was that in todays society with all the things woman have to enchance their beauty I feel they then abuse it. Its amazing just how rude some girls can be to some guys when u pluck up the courage to chat to them. Luckily, I havent felt too much of the wraith because ill tend to not test my luck and will wait til I see someone I like and then wait for them to give hints. But sometimes Ill try my luck and approach a girl and if im to be rejected ill be lucky if I get a small 2 min conversation followed by "I got to go, have a good night". Which is nice and they way I think some girl should reject a guy. Being not a bad looker I have had girls come up to me and if im not interested ill engage in a small conversation bascially asking how their nights going etc and then as like the above tell them I have to go and tell them to enjoy the night. Its quite obvious what your hinting at i.e. your not interested, but at the same time its like a gentle let down. Unfortunately its not usually like this with girls. Usuallly its a case of the girl blanks u and pretends u didnt say "hi", or they say "hi" then just look away obviously showing they dont want to talk to u. Just a bit insulting really. "Let me get a tissue out and wipe off all your make up.......there u go, no one will bother u again" (sorry, small joke)

 

I am all happy for a lady to wear make up, tanning products, wonder bra etc. if it makes them feel better, but not if its going to come with a bad attitude. The attitude of "I was a 6/10 but after the 2 hours of getting ready im now a 9/10 and im gonna reject the male 6s,7s,8s cause im now so superior wheres the alpha male?" I think you get my point? A lot of guys don't expect a girl to be interested when they go up, but we dont like the attitude either, its simple to reject someone without making them feel awful.

 

Anyway, getting off topic a bit here, just wanted to try clear the point up a little but almost starting another thread. And "no", girls do not need make up etc to look attractive before u start thinking im calling all girls ugly if they dont have make up on.

 

EDIT: Im not that bright CharLit unfortunately, intelligence is not my forte (however its spelt, u see, i am stupid

[the yang to the worlds yin]

It's all good to be a nice guy (as long as you don't go overboard with it) but if you don't have that confidence, they won't ever be attracted to you except in very rare cases.

 

 

i disagree to an extent. i feel that a kind guy shows a surplus of confidence and that those that put up a false cherade in order to appear more confident are truly the less confident of the two. don't let people take you forgranted, but don't change the way you treat others in order to convey a message.

 

plus i always had a soft spot for kind gentleman.

[Spawn]

hmm....l will put it this way, its not about confidence, what the nice guys lack and i am sayin it because some of us "the nice guys" have this tendency of being nice all the time, the niceness factor ( if there is something called like that) its so much in us that it clouds our decision making part of brain.

 

When somebody is genuinely wrong or acting stupid, we shud actually be upfront about it, tell them that is bad but we care for their feelings instead and think telling them its bad would put us in a bad light. In other words its similar to pamperin....your giving them lot of importance when instead u shud be the catch.

 

I am also guilty of doin that in my first relationship although when i was in there i never realized that.Like when kids do somethin wrong don't we tell them that its wrong, i do , everybody does. But we forget it when it comes to our gf's or bfs. And we forgive them for the first time whether its cheating, or taking crap, or whatever. And they take us for granted henceforth and the cycle continues.

[JonnyG]

Think thats a very good point Spawn. Going on my example with M, I actually was really angry, but I didnt have a go at her because I thought "If I have a go at her and cause an argument, then that might very well be it for us". I am very attracted to her and didnt want this argument as I feared it could very well possibly call the end of the relationship. Incredibly annoying cause I feel I havent done anything wrong and its me who should be angry and me getting the apology. Of course, the cycle then continues as u said.

 

With K when I snapped it was because the situation was different. She is already with someone and perhaps its a serious relationship. Not only that but the fact is that its been like 8 weeks and she just seems only interested when shes interested and my thoughts dont apply at all. I guess I was very annoyed at her comment and I thought this time "Heh, this might end it, but nothing is happening much anyway, I've tried being nice and not getting anywhere, now lets just show her that Im not going to be a total mug and even if she dont want to speak to me again, at least I got the anger out". I honestly felt quite good and definitely relieved when I had a go at her. She half seemed to end up apologising, not properly though. But As i said, once again the nice/mug side of me came out and checked on her like the day or 2 after to see if she was ok. And of course, despite half speaking, tried to initiate a phonecall/another meeting but shes ignored the tx. Again, only on her terms itll all be.

[Caldus]

your giving them lot of importance when instead u shud be the catch.

 

Exactly. *adds in some text to make the system happy*

[the yang to the worlds yin]

LOL, yeah i think i learned that lesson the hard way. i eventually did realise though that sometimes you've got to stop giving that person such importance in your life, it creates this awful inbalance in the relationship or pursue'e.

[k2004myway]

As for why women go for the "bad boys". A friend of mine, female, says that girls fall for the wrong type of guy because every girl wants to be the one who "cracks the nut" (fixes them).

[JonnyG]

As for why women go for the "bad boys". A friend of mine, female, says that girls fall for the wrong type of guy because every girl wants to be the one who "cracks the nut" (fixes them).

 

And girls are meant to be the mature ones.

 

As I said in a previous post, I agree, heard this comment before from guys+girls, its stupid. They could easily just try to change "Mr nice but boring guy" in to "Mr nice but exciting guy" instead.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

Gosh, I hope your nose was OK.

 

Just wanted to say, its not a problem exclusive to girls. Being a girl myself (duh) I can tell you with absolute certainty that when I was real, real total evil (insert bad word here) to guys, so many more people wanted me than when I was nice.

 

Id have what...3 on the go? And they all suspected something was up/knew that I wasnt being exclusive to them. But I was almost high on it, its like an addiction, it makes you so confident...and guess what confidence is? Its attractive. Its like that old phenomenon (sp) that when you finally get a GF/BF, you become more attractive all of a sudden. Its because you are receiveing constant validation that you are hot, and it radiates, and my word, its effective!

 

The downside to being a "player" though, is that although it gives you experience and some great dinner party stories, you become disillusioned with people quite quickly. It gets depressing to know that if you just churn out certain mannerisms etc, you can get someone new every three days. It's much better to be a saner, nicer human being and wait longer for that person who wants you for your personality rather than an ability to charm snakes from trees. (Although its a useful skill at job interviews, etc.).

 

Stick with the niceness...if anything, inject more confidence, although I know its hard. Hang in there...having a succession of people doesnt make you happy in the long run, if it did, I'd still be doing it!

[JonnyG]

My nose is still a bit sore but thankyou for asking (bruising happening around the inner eye sockets, makes me look like i havent sleep for a week).

 

Thx for being honest antilove. I guess if u had 3 ppl+ on the go u would feel great. I know I feel on top of the world when Im seeing someone I like, your right, its like a drug.

 

Like u said, on the down side, I don't want to waste my time playing around with girls I dont want to be with. Its selfish and a waste of mine and their time. But heh, this is my opinion.

 

P.S. I am really getting tempted though with this "dont care about anyone attitude".