So called "Nice Guy" Syndrome

[Boricua7]

Look, lets cut to the chase here. We can all agree that woman are blood thirsty beast that devour the hearts of young men.

 

Sheeesh, I do know you're kidding kile...but even that is another example of things men say when they're trying to play the "poor little victim" card. You men need to buck up. (no offense!)

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Oh and quit playing the gender card. PLEASE! It's tired. Both sexes are guilty of all kinds of things so let's try to keep in mind that stereotypes like "women are insatiable" or "all men want is sex" hold true for both sexes and are only ever said out of anger for the opposite sex usually due to a specific person. Don't hold against all women what one girl did to you. Don't generalize about men with only one guy as subject.

[tylercdurden2004]

My sentiments exactly.

 

Oh and quit playing the gender card. PLEASE! It's tired. Both sexes are guilty of all kinds of things so let's try to keep in mind that stereotypes like "women are insatiable" or "all men want is sex" hold true for both sexes.

 

Bor, Chill. Its a joke.

[MrDraw]

My earlier reply did set an angry tone to the subject.

 

Let's just say I've had some experiences with this matter.

Removing my actual post was an option, but i didn't.

If anyone was offended by my actual post, I'm sorry for that.

 

Reading all of your posts, I think this thread is getting out of hand, and nothing really important is being said anymore. Everybody reacts to one another. (looking at my own post too).

 

There are "nice guys and nice girls" and like some others said, gender has noting to do with it, it works both ways.

 

"Originally posted by heythere1234"

*The exception is MrDraw, because he didn't even seem to be talking about the same subject, he definitely doesn't 'get it'. Not trying to be mean about mrdraw, but he very well may call himself a 'nice guy'.

Thanks for your comment on me. As you see I've placed a last comment myself, reflecting a bit about the subject and my own reply.

I'm no "nice guy" (as you intended in your thread) at all.

If I want to end a friendship, relationship, or whatever, I will tell the person in question the truth. I want to hear the truth about things, so I will tell the truth. No need for lies.

 

Its too bad that my opinion is considered "off topic".

I reflected my "feelings / toughts" about the subject. Isn't that what this whole site is about..??

 

And with the above said, I will leave this thread.

[Boricua7]

Bor, chill. Its a joke.

 

I know that kile was more-than-likely just kidding but the whole stereotypes for each gender thing is really starting to get to me at this site. It makes me feel bad when someone makes a broad generalization about women because most of the time I'm like "I don't do that and I'm pretty sure I'm female". I bet it bothers guys for women to do the same thing, you know? Liks I said before, I know kile was just kidding but he still said what he said and I wanted to address what he said even if he didn't neccissarily mean it.

[heythere1234]

MrDraw, I'm not trying to kick you off the thread, although you're welcome to leave if you want. It just really seems like your missing the point entirely.

[auss]

Completely disagree.....a self professed "nice guy" is someone to be regarded as suspicious. Most nice people don't need to claim it, they live it.

Anyone can claim to be anything, but through their actions is who they truly are.

[KileOriginal]

I don't know Boricua7, after tonight I feel as if woman really are beasts out to devour the hearts of men like me.

 

Its just gettin to rough out there, feel like I need to bored myself up in my apartment and wait it out for a while.

 

 

 

(I really did have a messed up night, but I'll try not to derail this post anymore.)

[heythere1234]

Completely disagree.....a self professed "nice guy" is someone to be regarded as suspicious. Most nice people don't need to claim it, they live it.

Anyone can claim to be anything, but through their actions is who they truly are.

 

Auss, who are you completely disagreeing with, because I thought that was kind of the whole jist of my original post? are you disagreeing with someone else?

[heythere1234]

Kile, I think it's kind of ironic you writing that on this thread, don't you?

[Daddy Bear]

Imho a 'nice guy' is one who treats women with respect and equality, and it's a title that a guy earns by virtue of his actions and one that he shouldn't hang on himself. I have also observed that some chicks are into that kind of thing and others just ain't.

[heythere1234]

Yes, some girls I know go for that self-labeling; I say, show me don't tell me.

[Boricua7]

I say, show me don't tell me.

 

DITTO! I completely agree!

[teacup]

a lot of guys say they are nice. actually, i have never heard one say that he is a mean and bad guy. they all seem to tell me they are good and nice.

 

even when they are horrible. the truth is......the way they perceive themselves, and the way they really act and behave are very different things indeed.

[Daddy Bear]

Yes, some girls I know go for that self-labeling; I say, show me don't tell me.

All I was trying to say (while specifically denouncing self-labeling) was some like it gentle and some like it rough, and to each her own. Sorry for not writing that more clearly.

[heythere1234]

yeah teacup and boricua you have it right!

[Daddy Bear]

i agree that actions speak louder than words. no girl ever told me she was mean and bad, either. but i don't think it has anything to do with gender--the same thing probably goes on in gay and lesbian relationships.

 

found on heartless-bi***link removed (sorry so long, and yes, it's a real website run by women)

 

The Man With No Spine - A parable for "Nice Guys"

 

There once was a man without a spine.

 

He was a very likable guy. The advantage of not having a spine was that he could fit himself to anyone, and he frequently did. He could flex this way and that.

 

But he couldn't stand up ...

 

...and being kinda mushy and flat most of the time, people often walked on him without realizing he was there.

 

So he got sad, having this dreadful absense of a spine, and he was resentful too. He wondered why other people couldn't fit themselves to him the way he fit himself to others, but that was silly because he never felt he had the right to ask anyone directly to fit themselves to him. He was formless, what was there to fit to anyway? In cyberspace he talked tough as if he had a spine, but people could clearly see by his rage and resentment that he didn't have one in real life, and he perished in the flame wars he provoked and only came out feeling more ashamed and ineffectual.

 

He wished he could be with a woman, to help him the way a spine would. If he clung to a woman with a spine, he could stand up, but women didn't like it when he did that. He often called them "bi***es" for the women with spines coldly asked him to let go of them, or unceremoniously shrugged him and his issues off onto the ground telling him to get his own spine.

 

If he fancied a spineless woman, on the other hand, he couldn't get her interest because they were looking for men with spines that they could cling to. But the spineless women would hang around with him for sympathy, and he'd be their platonic male friend and play "therapist" though he was as sick as they were. He'd often call himself a "feminist" and lecture these spineless women how to stand on their own when he had no idea of how to stand for himself.

 

With all the bending and flopping around he did, a spine never could get a chance to grow.

 

Then one day he had a brainstorm, he decided he'd make himself a spine.

 

He took a long stick.... and he put it far up his a**.

 

It was an improvement, though uncomfortable. It was the first time in his life he could walk tall, if not a bit stiff. He found he could have opinions at odds with others, and stand for them. He found out that he didn't have to be liked, that the world didn't end if he pissed someone off. He didn't want to fit easily with other people anymore, in fact he became inflexible.

 

People commented on the change, some people didn't particularly like him with the stick up his a** but they did notice him more. Some people felt that at least they could respect him, even if they didn't always like him because he did less whining. At least nobody stepped on him by accident.

 

However relationships still didn't come easy, it was hard for a woman with a spine to love him with the stick up his a**. He was stiff, cold, brutally opinionated, condescending, and self-righteously hostile. But eventually he did attract a very pretty woman without a spine who saw him as a tower of strength to cling to.

 

At first he loved this woman, he thought the stick up his a** was the answer to his dating problems. He was finally being loved the way he once loved others. At first it was great, and then it was good, and then it was ok, and then it was uncomfortable, and by the end of a year it was infuriatingly suffocating. The spineless woman clung like a straightjacket. The horror!!! The horror!!!

 

But the stick up his a** made him so inflexible he didn't know how to get the spineless woman off of him, If only he could bend. He was trapped, upright in his "obligations", "duty to her", "guilt", "pride in his commitment", he spent months with his arms helplessly flapping about trying to get her off of him and trying not to look like he was doing that.

 

He was hoping that she would leave by hinting her indirectly, he used sarcasic tones, said mean things that were "just a joke", neglect, "constructive" criticism intended to insult. He only made the spineless woman feel more insecure, so she clung HARDER.

 

Spineless men envied him, called him a jerk for the way he was treating her, just the way he remembered how he used to envy other men before he had the stick up his a** (when he'd play consoler to their teary-eyed spineless girlfriends). If only they knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of a spineless person's embrace they'd understand. He wished she'd leave him for one of the spineless men who envied him. He felt ashamed for the way he must have made women feel in the past when he was trying to cling to them, he knew that they weren't so evil after all.

 

One day he decided that there was only one way to be free of the spineless woman once and for all, the stick up his a** had to go.

 

So he pulled the stick out, and to his amazement a miracle happened: he was still standing! All of the years of inflexibility allowed him the chance to grow a spine. At first he was still a bit stiff but eventually he had the flexibility to contort a bit and yet maintained the firmness to struggle, push, and wriggle from the spineless woman's grasp (though she protested much). He stayed far out of her reach and the reach of other spineless women so that he could never be grasped by one again.

 

He was overjoyed with his new-found freedom; he could bend sometimes like he used to (but not too far) and also he could stand tall. He went out, partied, enjoyed life to the fullest, and eventually found a woman with a normal spine like his.

 

They stood together as separate individuals giving mutual support and enjoying time alone too, and lived (relatively) "happily ever after"...

 

The end

[heythere1234]

Ahh, hence the username? Good compromise, and Happy ending!

[Riot Nrrrd]

I was going to say exactly that Tyler. It's the same with people who are afraid of abandonment. They seem to attract people who are commitmentphobic.

Ilse is so right here.

 

I am exactly one of these "Nice Guy" types, that (I discovered too late) is afraid of abandonment. And my ex fiancée (who totally blind-sided me by dumping me almost 5 1/2 months ago - which is why I'm here on this site now) is a complete Commitmentphobe, despite the fact that we were actually engaged and had been for almost 3 years.

 

What I found out (through therapy) is that I'm really Codependent - and my ex really brought it out in me. I had my own name for it - "Florence Nightingale Syndrome" - but they're really the same thing. The need to "help" or "rescue" your partner (which in reality is a subtle means of control, and it includes fear of abandonment). Right now I'm reading Melodie Beattie's seminal book on Codependency, entitled "Codependent No More".

 

And while I was going to post a link to a heartless-byaatches article, slightlybent beat me to it - but that isn't the article I was going to post. I was going to post link removed one (which I heartily recommend you read, monsieur) about Nice Guys instead. It's pretty straight up and while it's a bit painful (for guys) to read, sometimes the truth hurts.

 

The bottom line is that ultimately, Nice Guy Syndrome is about self-loathing. You have to love yourself and be confident in yourself before you can be a true partner in a relationship. Trying to "rescue" someone only ends up hurting both of you. I'm sure she dumped me in part because of this very reason. (She wouldn't tell me exactly why, other than vague hand-waving crap like "I don't feel compatible you in a way that makes a commitment possible", "I can't just ignore the Not Right feelings that evolved over time", and "the basic incompatibility". When I asked her to explain just what she meant by these statements, her "response" was to cut off all communication, for good.)

[Riot Nrrrd]

I was going to say exactly that Tyler. It's the same with people who are afraid of abandonment. They seem to attract people who are commitmentphobic.

[N.B. - Sorry for the repost, I didn't realize that replying to ilse's post would make mine appear right below hers. Not used to that result with PHP bulletin boards.]

 

ilse is so right here.

 

I am exactly one of these "Nice Guy" types, that (I discovered too late) is also afraid of abandonment. And my ex fiancée (who totally blind-sided me by dumping me almost 5 1/2 months ago - which is why I'm here on this site now) is a complete Commitmentphobe, despite the fact that we were actually engaged and had been for almost 3 years.

 

What I found out (through therapy) is that I'm really Codependent - and my ex really brought it out in me. I had my own name for it - "Florence Nightingale Syndrome" - but they're really the same thing. The need to "help" or "rescue" your partner (which in reality is a subtle means of control, and it includes fear of abandonment). Right now I'm reading Melodie Beattie's seminal book on Codependency, entitled "Codependent No More".

 

And while I was going to post a link to a heartless-b*tches article, slightlybent beat me to it - but that isn't the article I was going to post. I was going to post link removed one (which I heartily recommend you read, monsieur) about Nice Guys instead. It's pretty straight up and while it's a bit painful (for guys) to read, sometimes the truth hurts.

 

The bottom line is that ultimately, Nice Guy Syndrome is about self-loathing. You have to love yourself first and be confident in yourself before you can be a true partner in a relationship. Trying to "rescue" someone only ends up hurting both of you. I'm sure my ex-fiancée dumped me in part because of this very reason. (She wouldn't tell me exactly why, other than vague hand-waving crap like "I don't feel compatible you in a way that makes a commitment possible", "I can't just ignore the Not Right feelings that evolved over time", and that she couldn't ignore "the basic incompatibility". When I asked her to explain just what she meant by these statements, her "response" was to cut off all communication - for good.)

[monsieur]

I read your link and it is very depressing to me that some women think the way the author of that article does.

 

It is fitting that it is on a site titled 'heartless * * * * *es'

 

reading more of the comments on that site it is very depressing, they completely ignore the facts of what men have to face as being the rejected and women being the rejectors, and come from a premise that women have no responsibility whatsoever for how the man feels inside. The women that wrote that are just out to justify the fact that they want to be submissive to an 'akkhole' type guy and put down the nice guys that tend to be easy going and full of heart.

 

It is a depressing read that really confirms the evil that is out there in this world and if my heart wasn't filled with such longing staying single would be the only logical choice.

[Dating Coach]

I read your link and it is very depressing to me that some women think the way the author of that article does.

 

It is fitting that it is on a site titled 'heartless * * * * *es'

What do you mean by that? The author definitely is NOT a heartless B. The author is 100% on, and what the author was saying is exactly how it should be. The "Nice Guy" it EXACTLY the person the author says he is, and the author is 100% right that it is unattractive. Why shouldn't it be? monsieur if you still are refusing to see the point here then you MUST be trolling.

 

That link is a GREAT article. Loved it.

[monsieur]

no, Im not trolling, the article left me sick to my stomach, I had an image in my mind of the woman writing it in all her self righteousness.

 

 

I found a definition on the site that I did like though, it is as follows, and the unhappy women out there should read it and take note maybe:

 

Nice guy: Someone who wants to date you, then marry you. Would never cheat on you. Optional: thinks you're just the greatest thing that ever lived.

[Boricua7]

That was an interesting story, slightlybent. Although I'm not sure that having a stick up your a** is the best (or only) way to allow yourself to grow a spine. It was a good story none-the-less.

[monsieur]

another thing, the author writes and generalizes about the 'spine' thing, but in reality I think very few guys have the 'spine' thing as a deal-breaker with women, but these heartless girls use it as a justification for why they don't like nice guys. If a girl is spineless she might not be the best match for my passive personality, but if she likes me alot and I like her alot the spine part is not an issue at all.

 

I actually love a woman with a spine, I am very passive myself and am a great match for someone that is more dominant and I am completely happy to let her make decisions like where we eat and even let her order for me at times. That is my personality, and it meshes well with a more dominant woman.

[mike-e-mike]

Females don't like 'nice guys' because they need drama in their life. A complacent, cooperative and eager to please man provides none of that, so regardless of whether or not it's better for them in the long run a woman will pick a relationship that is full of drama until the day comes when they want to settle down, then they will complain there is no nice guys left because they are all married (which, they will be).

 

You get a few different types of nice guys though:

 

There is the sleazy nice guys you meet at the nightclub (blokes can generally tell the type straight away) who noticably changes when he is picking up or around a woman he wants to pull - he will say honestly he is a nice guy when his mates know full well he treats women (and men) poorly. These guys get a lot of birds though.

 

There is the nerdy nice guy who doesn't get the birds very often so places the woman he is with (or has a chance with) on a pedestal which scares them off (and doesn't provide the aforementioned required drama). - These are the ones who complain about turning into a friend too much - and rightly so, it sucks. These guys generally turn into much more well balanced people and generally stay nice, turning into the final nice guy...

 

The genuine nice guy is someone who lives and treats people the way he wants to be treated and does it just because they couldn't live any other way. These guys don't put the hard word on girls as much as some, and as a result can end up being shelved as friends. But rest assured, living by standards and having a moral code will pay off in the long run, not to mention that, as I said before, these nice guys will all be married by the time the drama queens are ready to settle down.

 

 

Just don't be a depressing nerdy nice guy (the self pitying one), they are true nice guys waiting to bust out...they are just trapped in a shell that needs a bit of work.

 

 

The 'nice guys finish last' isn't just about women though, it is a fact of life and is relevant in a lot of areas. But to some people finishing first isn't the most important thing in the world!!!