CluelessGuy321 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Gah, you people brought this back up. It's been a few weeks since I've posted this topic....still haven't met anyone. I'm trying to figure out where the heck a guy meets single women. Nice ones. And how do I build attraction when I can't sense what they think of me. I need a date doctor. Like that movie - Hitch. Edit: And stop messaging me about the bad pic in the 1st post. I posted face shots down a bit farther. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Quit trying to sense what they think about you and just go pursue your feelings for her. Quit stopping and asking around for directions, that's part of your problem, this lack of confidence to simply take charge and do what you want without asking whether you should. Link to comment
CluelessGuy321 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 I see. I will try that when I can get the chance. Link to comment
easyguy Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 CluelessGuy, if you have a TV with cable, you should seriously consider watching the show on Vh1 called "Can't Get a Date". Link to comment
jessicadon Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Also, not sure if this is an issue with you. But if I girl gives you some attention or asks you out. GO! I have known a couple guys, that like you had never had girlfriends. They were actually rejecting women all the time, without even realizing it. Link to comment
CluelessGuy321 Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 I went to a party last night @ a Club in Orange County. HOT girls everywhere. And I didn't have the balls just to walk up to any and ask them to dance or talk or anythnig. The music was loud and there was a LOT of competition. Other guys doing the same thing. My friend kept pushing me, and took the initiative and just said "Hello" to some plain looking girls on the dance floor and he got a hand in his face. These things don't help I guess. I need to go back to school and join a bunch of clubs or something where I can more easily communicate. Link to comment
Miss M Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Also, not sure if this is an issue with you. But if I girl gives you some attention or asks you out. GO! I have known a couple guys, that like you had never had girlfriends. They were actually rejecting women all the time, without even realizing it. Well, as I posted on another thread most of the time w/us b/c we've never had a g/f we feel it's impossible for a girl to be attracted to us. Oh there must be something on my shirt, I have something in b/t my teeth is the type of thoughts that run through our head when an attractive girl looks at us. And of course being that we're shy we're a lot less likely to make a move on a girl for fear of rejection and a validation in our low opinions of ourselves (be it our looks, personality, crappy clothes, car what have you). No offense to anybody here, but I've dated a few guys like that, and to be honest they were a waste of time. If a guy can't believe in himself at even the most basic level, it really screws up the relationship, and puts a huge burden on the girl. A girl who gets involved with that kind of guy will end up spending all of her time reassuring him, or trying to help him reframe his distorted view of himself... IOW trying to be his therapist. It's really no fun being with someone whose response to my interest is to be immediately and compulsively self-critical. And a guy who spends an inordinate amount of time focusing only his negative aspects is a chore. And I TOTALLY agree with jessica... lonely guys reject women all the time without even realizing it, but they are convinced it is the women who are rejecting them. They reject the women first, because they've decided they don't have a chance with her. And one of the reasons they reject women is because they themselves don't want to risk rejection. And Clueless, going to a party/club to meet girls?... well, isn't that really more like a meat market? In that type of setting you really have to accept that rejection is just part of the whole scheme... and really not the best place for those who have a huge fear of rejection. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 My friend kept pushing me, and took the initiative and just said "Hello" to some plain looking girls on the dance floor and he got a hand in his face. I'm not surprised. Your friend probably did the same thing that the last 100 guys did. He was boring, predictable. They probably saw him walking up and EXPECTED him to have a lame line that everyone else uses. He could have totally caught them off guard if he had new material. Here, read this. YES it's extremely long but there is a TON of valuable info here: Challenge. Either you understand it and employ it as part of who you are or you don't. I find that most men simply don't. They don't know about it, they don't get it, or they simply don't do it. Challenge is one of three important traits men must have that I have learned about, and I feel it can make up one third to one half of a successful relationship. I will try to share what it is and how you can be a challenge. In a nutshell, being a challenge means you are NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER PERSON and are NOT desperate. And let me be VERY clear about this: this is a two-way street. Both men AND women can take a lesson from this. Where did I learn about challenge? I was fortunate to learn about it both in theory and in real life. In theory, I read it from gleaning information from other relationship gurus and advice web sites. However, I *really* learned it when I walked my dogs. A funny thing happens when you walk down the street with two dogs that stand over three feet tall and weigh 165 pounds each. People either avoid you like crazy or are drawn like moths to a bright light. I have found that on average when I walk down the street alone there is a 0% chance of being approached by anyone. Walking with the dogs increases that to about 30% of people passing by. Yes, about 30% of people will stop and talk to me. Now this is where it gets interesting. Remember, I want you to focus on the human interactions here, the personality, the psychology behind people's actions so do a little reading between the lines. NOTE: To preface this, think about the dogs and their hander - ANY handler as I have found out - and an attractive woman, and how there might be a similarity between them from a psychological point of view. They both draw people to them and people try to be social. This is where things start to fall apart. Before I had my dogs, I simply blended into the crowd. And, of course, I still do when I am without them. But … WITH my dogs, people walk right up to me. All sorts of people. Old, young, gay, straight, crippled, athletes, kids, men, women, fat, smokin' hot, black, white, Chinese, whatever. They start talking, they ask questions or sometimes try to make a joke. They immediately assume I am friendly and social and without so much as two seconds hesitation they just start talking. To me, this was stunning, this was amazing. (This is partially because when I owned my dogs to begin with I never lived near any place busy. That changed when I moved after my divorce and ended up in the middle of a trendy restaurant district. Every Sunday morning I would walk my dogs to a local bakery and get them a doggy biscuit.) At first, I felt like a new person. I was suddenly the center of attention like I had never been before. I had *never* been approached by anyone *ever* in public. Never. Not once. And I still can quietly blend into the crowd if I leave the dogs at home. This is handy – I can choose when I want to be approached by people and when I don't want to. And this is a point to think about. >> Question: Can a woman turn off the fact that she is a woman to get people to leave her alone? No. She cannot, so as a result she may be approached every day even if she is not in the mood, tired of it, or otherwise wants privacy. Many men are not respectful of this and approach women when they have not given any signals to do so. Women dress down (sweats, baggy clothes) to try and fly under the radar, but it does not always work. People were so friendly I was amazed. They asked questions, made jokes, socialized with the dogs and myself, and generally were very kind. Some people were afraid. Some people got drooled on (by the dogs, not me!) and some people go stepped on. Some people got knocked over, and some gave my dogs treats or water. Some people wanted their picture taken with the dogs. Yes, these dogs are definitely unusual. However, after a few weeks the novelty began to wear off. I realized that people asked the SAME questions over and over. Albeit I had met hundreds of unique and different human beings, they said the EXACT SAME THING AS THE OTHERS. "How can this be?" I thought to myself. Out of billions of human beings on the planet, how can they all be so similar? How can they be so alike? How can they say the exact same questions? How is it that I can look at them at almost read their mind and KNOW what they are going to say? People, you are not so unique. You are not so different. After owning my dogs for 5 years now I realize we are all very limited in so many ways. Just like so many of us do not know what kind of dogs they were, we also do not know how to be social. We do not know how to stand out from the crowd. We do not know how to be different, be creative, be above average. Imagine my disappointment when I started to grow weary of walking my dogs knowing I would be bombarded with the same questions over and over and over ... and over.... Suffice to say there is a 90% or greater chance someone will say "Nice horses!" Or ... Where's the saddle? How much do they weigh? How much do they eat? Where do they sleep? How do you give them a bath? Look, I won't bore you ... because these people, us, you, we, them, everyone is BORING. The questions are so rote and boring I've seriously considered putting all the questions on a t-shirt and wearing it when I go out. There are about 40 questions or comments people will make and I've heard 'em all! Now here is something to think about. If 90% of people make horse comments and jokes, then what are the chances that you are in that 90th percentile? And if you talk to women and try to pick them up, what's the chances that you are in that 90th percentile STILL? Not once has anyone ever said "So how many folks have made the horse comment in the past 10 minutes? 200?" If I ever heard that, I'd know I was in the presense of someone who knew what I was going through. All of the sudden, I would know this person was smarter than the average Joe. I would want to get to know them more because I would assume they were like me in some ways. And I'd probably laugh. Why? They were arrogant and funny. They were above the bar because they had been pestered by all the idiots of the world. And that is the next step for someone who is constantly bothered by people: Challenge. We're BORED. -------------------------- Okay, now that you've had a lesson in dogs, let's go back and think about this from a different perspective: That of the woman. Okay guys, you're horny and don't lie to me and say you're not. You want sex. Fine, we're programmed like that for some reason and that is not the point. The point is every woman you meet KNOWS the one of 40 lines you are going to say. She's been approached by every idiot male since about the age of 13 or so. Guys have been hitting on her EVERYWHERE she goes. EVERY day. I am lucky that I can leave the dogs at home. Imagine not being able to hide from the dirty old men, the disgusting frat boys, or the shy "let's be friends" adult-children guys. You know they are going to try and trick you into having sex with them. Either they'll try some line, or they'll try to be your best friend only to try and kiss you in 6 months. You KNOW what they are going to say, you KNOW what they want, and you KNOW you're not interested. Why? Because she's just met another "guy" and she is going to lump you in the pile of "guy" like every other guy. Just like I do with every other "person" I meet. ---------------------------------- Come back to doggy land for a few minutes. Now who are the people who stick out in my mind? Well, there were a few. There was the girl who asked me where I got them (California for one) and then asked WHERE in California. I told her "Near San Francisco." She repeated, "Okay, but WHERE?" Where? No one asked what city I got them in, no one cared. It was clear she had a reason – she must know the area. I told her. Well, it turns out she went to high school at the rival high school where I grew up. All of the sudden we were connecting about ourselves and NOT the dogs. We talked about it. We talked about growing up there. And then she disappeared. And returned a minute later with her phone number written on a piece of paper. And I called her and asked her on a date. The other one was the young woman who I met at Petsmart. She asked me what kind of dogs they were and I laughed at her and said "Wait, you work HERE and don't know?" The conversation quickly became personal and I ended up asking for her number and going on a date. And now we are engaged to be married. She was the one in a million person who was different. --------------------------------- So what happened there? She was DIFFERENT. She asked about ME. She made a connection to something OTHER than something completely obvious (the dogs) and instead made a connection to ME. She didn't kiss my * * *, she didn't ask me the same dumb questions the other 5 people around me were asking, she didn't even care about the dogs. She had a brain and used it. I frequent some other forums and give advice. Someone posted this exchange recently and it was BEAUTIFUL. Whoa. What happened here? That went so fast that most of you guys are going to miss it. Most of you women are going to attack him for being a jerk. But you know what? Well over 90% of communication is non-verbal. You're just reading what happened. You were not there. You did not see the eye contact. You did not see the body language. So just STOP and see the beauty of the conversation. In so many ways that TINY exchange is pure beauty. And you would do good to stop and think about everything that it says. On that particular forum, another member said "That's where I would get slapped" and another said " * * *? That's not good game." Don't get stuck on the game comment but realize ... it was beautiful. I replied: That is way to short to sum it up, but let me tell you ... after the previous 100 guys had walked up to her and said: You're hot. You're beautiful Great party, can I get you a drink? Hi, what's your name? Hey, what are you drinking? Hey, what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this? Hey, wanna go for a ride in my BMW? Or any other number of COMPLETE BALONEY lines you better bet she's going to be more than excited when someone comes up and says something... >>> DIFFERENT I tell you what, if someone, ANYone had ever come up to me, once, EVER, and said "Nice Chihuahua's." I would have laughed my head off. If anyone had said "What are you compensating for?" in reference to having a small penis, I would have fallen down laughing. And I would have been immediately ATTRACTED to that person. Why? Because they just proved to me that they UNDERSTAND THE CURSE OF HAVING PEOPLE ALL OVER YOU. They would have just shown they are on the same level as me. They would have been ... A CHALLENGE. -------------------------------- Okay, now that we have that down, let's discuss challenge. Challenge is the art of NOT being like everyone else. Challenge is the art of understanding that people are idiots and you're different. Challenge is also the fine art of NOT throwing yourself at someone. It's backing off, relaxing, taking your time, and understanding that you can actually get better results with LESS effort. Yeah, jump all over my for calling people idiots, but if you are reading this you understand that we are all very limited in our skills and have a lot to learn. Heck, I'm a complete idiot. If I don't do something boneheaded at least once a week it would be a miracle. But who better to listen to? Folks, I've been there. I know what I am talking about because I am just a normal stupid guy. And now I am a little less stupid for understanding how women feel. NOTE: If you ever REALLY want to know what it's like to be a woman, dress up as sharp as you can and spend a night - the WHOLE night - in a gay club. You will be hit on a dozen times. You will hear the same lines over and over. You will be completely repulsed. And you will learn in one night how never to treat a woman. --------------------------------------- So what is a challenge? Don't you get it yet? A challenge is a guy who doesn't do whatever everyone else does. A challenge is a guy who does not fawn over a woman, does not try to initiate sex right away, who is different. I will give you an example: Recently my fiancé and I went into a high-end jewelry store to (1) get her engagement ring cleaned and (2) look at wedding bands for me. As we went in, I walked towards the repair desk and was approached by a very attractive young woman. I mean, she was easily a 9 on a scale of 1-10, the kind of woman you rarely meet. Stop. Wait. Now, in your head, what do you say to her? Make a mental note of it before you continue reading. If you were like I used to be you would lock up, avoid her, or say something stupid. ........ ........ Okay, think of how you would have handled it. Remember, she's smokin' hot! ........ ........ Okay, now most customers walk up and say "Hi, how are you, I'm looking for xyz" or something, right? Or maybe you avoided her altogether. Okay, that's fine, I've done that. I am sure there are only 40 things that customer say to her, or ANY other employee at the store. And she knows them all. This is dog walking 101 here. So what did I say? I said "Hi, we're here for the buy one, get one free sale. Can you show me some items on special?" (Remember this is a jewelry store, and they NEVER do sales like that.) The look on her face was a completely blank. Classic. Now this is HUGE. Suffice to say there are TONS of details behind this, but what just happened was her auto-pilot turned off and now she was confused. (On a side note, this is also a well known hypnotic technique used by many groups to subvert rational thinking; but I won't describe how to do that, you don't need to know how anyway.) She actually was woken up from her "boredom" state of being at work. Her auto-pilot turned off because I just did NOT ask one of the 40 questions she was expecting. She could NOT go into her sales pitch. She could NOT recite from memory one of her 40 replies. She actually had to THINK. Boom. I was a CHALLENGE. I stood there for about 3 seconds as she tried to figure out how to reply. Clearly she wanted to be professional (remember, upscale store), but at the same time was not sure I was serious, but couldn't risk offending me. This is ALSO huge. All of the sudden her brain had to go from a dead stop to 100%. I leaned in a little and in a lower voice said "This is when you are supposed to point and say 'Actually Sir, that is next door.' You need to work on your sense of humor a little I think." [NOTE: Next door was a McDonalds.] Oh. She looked out the window. She smiled. She got it. The look on her eyes. Relief. Happiness. A joke. She was off the hook. She lit up like a light bulb and that was that. She was now TOTALLY awake. I went from there. At that time if I had wanted to I could have made small talk, asked for her number, and gotten a date with her, probably in less than 2 minutes. Why? Because I was DIFFERENT. I made her THINK. I did not do what every other person does. I was a challenge. ---------------------------------------- Now let's go over some things that are NOT a challenge: 1. You talk to a woman for a few weeks or months and tell her everything about yourself. 2. You get her number and then call her to talk. Like friends. 3. You call her and get her voice mail and leave a long, rambling, boring message. 4. You call her more than once without waiting for her to return your first call. 5. You follow her around in a sense – always visit her at work, drop by her house unannounced, email her frequently, call her frequently 6. You supplicate yourself to her such as buying things for her, doing things for her and expect nothing in return 7. You do not joke, flirt, tease, or poke fun at things with her. 8. You ask her on a date to dinner and a movie. 9. You act serious or boring all the time Here's a motto I learned to help you be more of a challenge: The less you talk, the longer you last. Heads up guys, this is probably your number one issue. You talk too much and you're boring. Talk less and be less serious. BACK OFF in a sense. You don't need to tell her everything about your life. In fact, some people who know me don't even know what I do for a living or how old I am. I've never told them and it *doesn't* matter anyway. You also need to make yourself LESS available. When you ask a woman out on a date, you need to take charge (women like that) and let her know when you are going. You also need to blow through excuses. For example: Him: Hey Cindy, how's it going? Her: Great! How about you? Him: Hey, I think you should go on a date with me. This Thursday at 6:00 at Starbucks on E street. What do you say? Her: Oh, I can't make that night, I have plans. Him: That's too bad for you, that's the only night I have free. Her: Really? Well, maybe I can make some time… Him: Maybe? Hey, this isn't high school, you need to make up your mind! Her: Well I have this thing I have to do… Him: What, shampoo your cat? Come on, don't give me some tired old excuse. If you give me one more excuse you'll have to buy, okay? So… Thursday, 6:00, yeah? Her: Well… yeah, sure! I'll be there. Him. Awesome! I knew you had it in you. Now there is a lot more to that tiny exchange, and yes it is very similar to a real world example, so let's briefly go over the details: Him: Hey Cindy, how's it going? Her: Great! How about you? [small talk] Him: Hey, I think you should go on a date with me. This Thursday at 6:00 at Starbucks on E street. What do you say? [Makes his intentions clear – asked her on a "date" and knew the time and place] Her: Oh, I can't make that night, I have plans. [Excuse. You have not sufficiently judged or raised her interest level. She does not want to go because she thinks you're boring.] Him: That's too bad for you, that's the only night I have free. [Take charge, made yourself LESS available.] Her: Really? Well, maybe I can make some time… [shifts now, because you did not ask when she has time {For you? Never!} but kept your schedule instead.] Him: Maybe? *laugh* Hey, this isn't high school, you need to make up your mind! I need a yes or no here! [blows through the lame excuse.] Her: Well I *do* have this thing I have to do but I might… [Excuse. Still unsure, going on auto-pilot to get rid of you.] Him: What, shampoo your cat? *laugh* Come on, don't give me some tired old excuse. If you give me one more excuse you'll have to buy, okay? So… Thursday, 6:00, yeah? [blows through excuse AND sets up that she'll HAVE to go with you in order to pay you back ("you'll have to buy") and assumes it will happen. NOTE: I cannot believe how many women will actually pay your way *if* she thinks you are fun to be with. This is a sign of her valuing your presense and worth. Her: Well… yeah, sure! I'll be there. Him. Awesome! I knew you had it in you. [Closed the deal] Was this so hard? No, it was easy. All it took was a sense of humor, playfulness, and a little determination. Remember, most people give up after the first excuse. What's the challenge there? None. Excuses are like real-world debates. You have to work through them, you have to make her think, YOU have to think, and you have to be smart enough to be one step ahead of the other person. You have to wake up and wake HER up. THINK. Use that brain of yours. Sure, you'll flub some of these attempts, but that is when you hang up the phone and analyze the situation for 10-20 minutes. Ask yourself what you said, judge her reaction, and then think what you could have done wrong. Did you offend her? Did you make a lame joke? Did you make her uncomfortable? Whatever you did that got a negative reaction … don't do it again! For reference, talking about SEX at ANY stage of the game, even when you are dating, BF/GF, or married, is generally a BIG turn off for women. I heard that *supposedly* it is the #1 most hated thing women encounter. So, what have we learned? Don't be desperate. Relax. Don't chase. Give her a hard time in a FUNNY way. Be confident. Ask her out and blow through excuses. If you get more than 2-3 excuses and don't get a FIRM 100% "Yes, I will be there" from her then blow her off. If you get there and she does not show up within 15-25 minutes, LEAVE. Do not wait for her. Do not call the day of/day before to "confirm the date." Either she is going to be there or not. No excuses and no permission to back out at the last minute should be granted (unless a real emergency comes up, obviously.) Okay, now with that said, you need to understand that this is a tiny slice of challenge. It is not a 100% guide. It is not 50% even, and even then you need to read between the lines. The whole point of challenge is to NOT be boring. Be yourself, but be different than the average Joe, but fun to be with. Be a challenge! ------------------------------------ [update] There are varying degrees of challenge that women respond to. Some women do not care much for it, and are perfectly happy with a nice mellow life. Others need hard-core out of this world challenge. However, one thing is for sure, no woman likes the anti-challenge guy. To give an example, I am going to share with you how to GET RID OF A WOMAN. When I was in college, many years ago, I had a pager. Well, one day I got a page from a number I did not recognize. I called it and it was a girl I did not know. For whatever reason we started talking, even though it was a wrong number. We ended up chatting for about ten minutes, and then we hung up. I thought nothing of it. Just a random stranger. Well, the next day she paged me again. So I called, we chatted a little more, nothing big. Then she paged me again the same day. Well, okay, I called her again. Then she paged me a third time. Okay, this is too much, I did not call her back. She paged me again. Then later again. Then over and over and over. I must have gotten 50 pages in an hour. It was nuts! Finally, I called her to tell her to stop. She wanted a date. I said no. Big mistake! Over the next week she hounded me by paging me hundreds if not thousands of times. I had to turn my pager off, and when I would turn it on it would start again. I could not believe it. Here was a woman who had no clue what I looked like or who I was who was stalking me. She managed to get my home number. She started to call me now. It was unbelievable. Finally, I got a clue. I decided to relent. I called her and said "You win, let's go on a date." She was thrilled. So we set up a date and time. Then, completely serious, I asked if she wouldn't mind paying because I was just a little short on money this week. She hesitated, and then I worked my magic and talked her into it. "I'll make it up to you, it'll be a great time, I won't buy anything expensive, don't worry!" so she agreed. We talked some more and I just flirted and made small talk. Later, she called but I did not pick up. She started calling over and over again, it was stupid but I had a plan. After about 2 hours I called her back and asked her what was up. Nothing, of course, she just wanted to talk. I told her I had been working on my car. Then we talked for another 5 minutes or so and I asked her if ... if she wouldn't mind picking me up for our date. "Why?" she asked. I then sheepishly told her that my car was broken, and that I was trying to fix it, but needed a part for it. Problem was that it was kind of an expensive part and since I hadn't gotten paid yet, I couldn't fix the car. So after a few questions, she agreed to pick me up. So then I asked if she would mind "loaning" me the money to buy the car part. I told her I could pay her back when I got paid in a week. We talked about it for a while and she said she'd think about it. We hung up. *I* called *her* this time. We talked some more. Then I asked her if I could borrow $1500 because I was behind on my rent. And I had actually lost my job because my car broke down a few weeks ago and I have not been able to fix it. I faked a little crying and then "got it together." I offered to let her move in and not charge her *much* rent if she wanted, since I had a spare room in my apartment. My last roommate moved out because they said I was charging them too much, don'tcha know? But I *had* to, I told her, because I had lost my job and needed the money. She said she'd think about it, but wasn't sure. And that she had to go. I called her again, later that day, and left a message asking if she had thought about loaning me the money, and I couldn't wait for our date. Then I called her a few more times, leaving more messages about how much I liked her and couldn't wait to meet her. Funny, I never heard from her again. What happened? Anti-challenge. I was a leech. I was trying to suck her into my life and people resist. Here she went from paging me 1000 times a day to never talking to me in the matter of a day, just based on what I said. In reality, I never lost my job or had a problem with my rent, but she thought I was some loser who would always be borrowing money and could not drive her anywhere. Women don't go for that. Link to comment
Miss M Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Oh I can understand this fully b/c lack of confidence isn't cool but damn girls aren't even coming up to me from a distance. So it can all be about my body language..looks has to be there somewhere. Actually a lack of confidence is obvious in (y)our body language from a greater distance than you might think. And sometimes I've even been able to detect a guy's negative self-regard even when I'm still too far away to get an idea of what he looks like. A lack of self-respect is just not very appealing. And when you write "but damn girls aren't even coming up to me from a distance" it seems you're waiting for a clue (aka reassurance) from the girl before you can step out? Maybe you'd like her to indicate that she likes you before you can find your courage, but like Diggity mentioned previously, you also need to be brave enough to go for what YOU like. And a guy who stands off in the distance wanting/needing a girl to make the first move so he can find his courage... well that can actually come off as if you're rejecting her. Shyness and lack of confidence are confusing and can be misunderstood. A lack of confidence can really seem as if the guy is aloof and disinterested... and to the girl, that can actually feel like you're rejecting her. I'll admit I know I've done this once last year when I blew a chance w/a girl here in Norman who actually did think I was cute. I've been kicking myself since then. And there were 2 other times were I probaby blew it b/c of my shyness and still thinking the girl would dump me once she got to know me (even if she still thought I was cute). I've also done it unintentionally many times myself, so I know how easy it is to fall into that kind of thinking/behavior. I've had some guys try to politely get my attention during a prolonged period when I was feeling especially unworthy. It dawned on me much later what had happened, and I also thumped my own self upside the head. When I evaluated it later I realized that I had unconsciously decided they were too good for me, and that I didn't deserve them. I felt exactly like you... that despite their initial interest, once they got to know me they would eventually dump me. And so I rejected them first because I didn't feel worthy of them. But to them I'm sure it probably seemed as if I was rejecting them because I didn't think they were worthy of ME. The possibly blown opportunities b/c of shyness drives me crazy so at times I do find myself trying to avoid eye contact w/women or situations were a girl may be interested in me b/c I know I'll find someway to muck it up. And avoiding eye contact because you're afraid to "muck it up"... well, to the girl that seems as if you want nothing to do with her. I've often tried to catch some guy's eye because I sensed he was "interested" and he quickly looked away, avoiding eye contact. At that moment it felt like rejection, as if he was saying "no, no, no, not you," really painful. So yes, when you're avoiding eye contact, you are rejecting the girl. And if you think of how much you dislike rejection, that's what she's also feeling when you seem to reject her. Ah, it's really too bad that so many of us are so afraid of each other. Link to comment
Budman Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I will say I love your posts Miss M. I've always wondered why someone feels that someone is too good for them, part of the reason my ex left me... (grr or so she said anyway...) Anyway, about eye contact. What I usually do is make a joke about it, (use humor man humor I joke about everything.) And stare RIGHT IN THERE EYES (in a creepy way) and say, "Don't you hate it when your date just sits there and stares at you not blinking watching every move you make not saying a word..." After they answer a yes, say "Well I guess that's good that I'm not gonna do that then" Something like that. Humor helps so much, whenever you can laugh at yourself, your shyness will go away. Honestly, I've become quite the clown (go figure), if I can draw attention to myself in the light I want to I have no issues. (Even if it I don't do it anymore it still works in my favor). some things I've done, Bowled through my legs on a date (many times) skipped through a mall Skipped through a mall with arms linked with another man Done countless magic tricks for people. I've taken my knee out twice while bowling I did half a game of mini golf like it was a pool game. honestly, Do something funny crazy and goofy. You'd be surprised how a lot of women like that. Honestly, I used to get soo embarressed when I would trip and fall. I would close myself up, I would blush, and try to get away. Why because I just did. I thought, "oh no everyone is looking at me..." You have to remember, most people are to absorbed in their life that they take no notice in you unless you specifically make them take notice. If you fall, and someone says, "Have a nice trip?" Respond, "Well it could have been longer I didn't get to see much!" Heck, even if you're not funny make fun of the stupid thing you said, I've gotten much better reactions from those anyway. "That was a crash and burn, the hindenburg went better than that. Man was that a stinker." Just enjoy yourself. Now, if only there was a button that made this all instantly possible. I know I would press it. *me adds to list of posts to read in entirety later on* Link to comment
Miss M Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I will say I love your posts Miss M. And you, sir, are delightfully charming. Hmm, not too bad for a rocky start, eh? As for the rest of your post... well, I have this goofy side, and I agree with all you wrote. I'm definitely a sucker for a guy that can make me laugh and the comedic types usually win my heart. And I also I LMAO-d while reading your post. Wow, you're sooo funny! LOL And I know there's a big difference in our ages, but hon, can I pleeeese hang out with you before you head north for the summer? Oh, but first, this part...I've always wondered why someone feels that someone is too good for them Typically it's an overly-active inner critic, and even sometimes a CHORUS of torturous critics, usually in loud booming voices, (although inaudible) and stemming from severe emotional wounds from childhood. The inner critic can be an amazingly cruel and stubborn little bugger. (And if you don't have this problem, well, you're truly very fortunate.) Honestly, I used to get soo embarressed when I would trip and fall. I would close myself up, I would blush, and try to get away. Why because I just did. I thought, "oh no everyone is looking at me..." You have to remember, most people are to absorbed in their life that they take no notice in you unless you specifically make them take notice. Ya know, this echoes something my therapist told me just a few weeks ago. And I'm still trying to let it trickle down and sink in, but yes, you're absolutely correct, that most people don't spend that much time thinking about our "mistakes" as we imagine they do. Anyhow, I've now got this funny image of a goofy grown man skipping through the mall. Ha! Thanks for the laughs. Link to comment
Budman Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 We were off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of oz, because because because because because! Apparently, when me and my girlfriend's brother did it, it was a riot. Apparently neither of us knew how to skip correctly, I looked like I was about to kick myself in the butt, and well I don't know how he skipped. And why not, Bah age is a number! Oh and rocky starts are sometimes the best ones. Why, because then you really woo with your personality. And you see, in the short time I've posted you've grown to hate me, like me, and others. Should be a lesson for all speak your mind and live and damn the consequences! hehehehe Link to comment
Miss M Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Apparently, when me and my girlfriend's brother did it, it was a riot. Apparently neither of us knew how to skip correctly, I looked like I was about to kick myself in the butt, and well I don't know how he skipped. LOL. Actually, that's how your role models in the "wizard of oz" did it too. Remember the scarecrow? hilarious. But honestly, it takes a special kind of witty and confident man to pull that off without turning people off. And somehow I've got you pegged for that kind of guy. And why not, Bah age is a number! And hey, I saw in your okcupid profile where you feel 90, so really, you're really much, much too old for me. ... But oh, it's still good... my best friend is a guy and he's 83. Oh and rocky starts are sometimes the best ones. Why, because then you really woo with your personality. And you see, in the short time I've posted you've grown to hate me, like me, and others. Should be a lesson for all speak your mind and live and damn the consequences! hehehehe Excellent point, (and also a good way to keep the thread on topic hehe). Yeah, "speak your mind, damn the consequences!" ... Well, not completely, but you all probably get the point. Link to comment
cyanide Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Hello everyone I would like to introduce myself. My real name is Joe and when I was younger I was really shy. I couldn't talk to a female without stuttering or turning all red. I had many problems like acne and being fat apart from being shy. I started a diet that caused me loads more problems "I wasn't eating enough" I was starting to suffer from anorexia nervosa. I made up my mind to change my whole life and start enjoying what I am. I have had many ups and downs but through experience I have learnt which roads to walk and which roads not to walk. I am now 28 years old and going on 29. I have dated many times some of them were long relationships and some of them were single dates. The secret is to respect you and be truthful. Enjoy what you have. Learn to accept the things that you cannot change and to change the things that you cannot accept. Good knowledge on how to do things will help. So if you have acne problems seek information regarding acne but do not blame acne for having never dated. I have created a site to help others find answers to those questions. The url is my avatar. Feel free to visit my site. What everybody needs is love towards him/her self and only then s/he will start noticing all the signs of attraction from other people. Love ya all! Joe Link to comment
Miss M Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Here, read this. YES it's extremely long but there is a TON of valuable info here: ... ... ... Thanks DD. What PD wrote about his dogs is a GREAT analogy. I might copy/paste that part about the dogs to use in another thread to help make a point, but I'll be sure to give PD credit. Guys who see/pursue attractive girls just don't seem to have a clue what's really going on, and PD explained it very well. Link to comment
Micwu_25 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 This is an old thread and I am not sure if people still read it but here is my $0.02. I am a Taiwanese American who speaks English with an accent. While I did have my first gf in college at 19 and 3 more after that at 32 I was not very good with women. I often felt into the "nice guy" zone. I am 36 now and let me tell you my experience. I have never been rejected before my 30's, the reason being I would never take a chance asking a girl out unless I am absoultely sure she'd accept my date..which translates into not many dates. Another reason I didn't get many dates was because I "ONLY" wanted to date girls that are good looking. When the good looking girls actually went out on dates with me I made all kinds of mistake that they'd loose interest in me. What changed my life completely was I decided to move to Taiwan for 3 years. People like us have low self confidence and living in Taiwan helped me build up my confidence. Ross K, if you live in an asian country for 6 months you would not have such a low opinion of yourself. Merely being White is enough for the local girls to flock to you. Beware however, many foreign guys get lost there as they have so many choices that they don't want to settle down with anyone and end up living there teaching English for years loosing their ability to survive back in their own country. Most of them also sleep with different women and become a jerk to them. For the other asian americans on this thread it'd also help you if you take a long vacation there. While not as popular as a white guy there your holding an American passport puts you at an advantage over the local men there. You do still have to put yourself out there but it's a lot easier when you are out of town. You'd also have a better chance with foreigners there as they all know the foreign guys are a-holes and the local guys are too shy to approach them. Right now I am back in the states and my friends are surprised how much I have changed. Most asian men think white women are not interested in them but I have dated as many white women as I have dated asian and I speak English with an accent. I even hooked up with a French girl in Paris last month who spoke very little English. The fact is most women really don't care about the color of your skin as long as they like you. The reason you don't see many AM/WF(or another other race) couples is because asian men don't approach them thinking they have no chance. It's all a numbers game and you need to have the "I don't care" attitud to start with. If you have no problem approaching but still can't get a break I'd suggest you to start with the 4' and 5's to practice. You will need the experience when your 10 comes along to not give the creepy/lack of confidence vibe that scares her away. I know some of the things I say here are not politically correct and I will probably get flamed but I am just trying to help my fellow peeps here. Link to comment
Miss M Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 If you have no problem approaching but still can't get a break I'd suggest you to start with the 4' and 5's to practice. You will need the experience when your 10 comes along to not give the creepy/lack of confidence vibe that scares her away. As someone who's been used for "practice" many times I need to point out something. The problem with this is you're "practicing" on someone who might really be falling for you. It's better to build your self-esteem in a way that doesn't exploit an unsuspecting woman who might be very sincere in her feelings towards you. (And it's not that what you wrote is politically incorrect; it's just really callous to do such a thing to anyone.) Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 As someone who's been used for "practice" many times I need to point out something. The problem with this is you're "practicing" on someone who might really be falling for you. It's better to build your self-esteem in a way that doesn't exploit an unsuspecting woman who might be very sincere in her feelings towards you. (And it's not that what you wrote is politically incorrect; it's just really callous to do such a thing to anyone.) I agree with Miss M. Asking someone out or dating someone whom you have no intention of being with is very callous and mean spirited. However if you are talking about simply practicing flirting, then that's not a big deal. Heck, I flirt with the 70 year old lady at the grocery store everytime I check out at the register. Flirting doesn't necessarily mean sexual advances or even "hitting on", flirting is just light conversation with some teasing and joking. Link to comment
Miss M Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yes, I flirt with guys too, of ALL ages (some on this board ). But I wouldn't ever "practice" on anyone, because I see that as something totally different. For me, if the guy is sincere in his interest (whereas I'm just "practicing") then I wouldn't want to practice in that circumstance, because that's just cruel. And I also wouldn't want it done to me while I'm feeling sincere about him. Flirting when you both know it's going nowhere is a different thing IMO. And flirting when you're both interested also seems different from "practicing." Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I might be thinking of flirting in a different manner than you are. Such as with the old lady at the register. I'll say something like, "Hey Sue! You look exceptionally beautiful today! So, are you going to give me the employee discount or what? No? Awww come on! I guess I'll have to try harder with my flattery!" *her laughing* I'm flirting. I never had the intention to lead her on (of course), I never really was trying to get a discount-she knows that, I'm simply having a fun conversation, which is much more appreciated than me going: "Hey Sue. Nice day huh? Yeah, things are going good, working OT a lot. See ya later." Sue loves me. Not literally, but she's always smiling when I come by and she's a fun person. I flirt and tease, and it's appreciated. It's fun. You can do this with anyone. If someone takes this the wrong way, then I'm sorry, what can I do? Be a boring and plain conversationalist? I could still rub someone the wrong way doing that even... I've had people get angry with me for saying that I don't like Hockey. You can't control what people think. Now if I was leading someone on, that's one thing, but if I am not yet they get attracted to me because I am fun to be around then that's just not something I can help. I flirt with everyone when I'm in a good mood-which I usually am. I was always this way, however there was a time when I was so shy I only was this way with people I was comfortable around. I decided to come outside of my shell and so I forced myself to do it more. I guess you could call it practice, but the practice was to better myself, I wasn't using anyone. I was trying to get more comfortable letting myself out and it took work. Oh, and if that person is interested in me and I know it, no way would I flirt with them or lead them on in anyway. That would be very mean. I hope that clarifies my meaning some. Link to comment
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