I feel like guys misunderstand me

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

i agree with miss M. DN, i don't think you've read the story right.

[DN]

Well, I read it that the repercussion was the fact she was moody in the first place.

 

She said she was moody, and he reacted badly. There was no mention of anything she did or said after that.

 

But I assume cranberry knew what she was doing when she said she regretted using the word.

 

But surely the main point is that people need to sharpen their communication skills; verbal and non-verbal - sending and receiving.

[BillyJean714]

But surely the main point is that people need to sharpen their communication skills; verbal and non-verbal - sending and receiving.

True. Is blantantly calling someone arrogant an effective way to communicate? Not really.

 

Unless I misunderstood, it seems the "repercussion" happened because he was "acting short" and got angry because she was unexpectedly quiet and distracted. In my opinion that makes him the arrogant one, thinking her every mood had something to do with him. Unless cranberry left out part of the story, he had no justification for being short with her just because she was quiet/distracted. And if he got a bad attitude for that, cranberry was right to put him in check.

That's how I understood it as well. I completely agree.

[DN]

True. Is blantantly calling someone arrogant an effective way to communicate?

 

Apparently it was in this case as the OP seemed to agree that she came accross like that.

 

Communication is about telling people how you see things. They may not agree and that is their choice. Or the words that you use can sometimes help people to recognise how they may appear to other people in what they say or write.

 

Arrogant is not a bad word nor is it disrespectful if it accurately describes how somebody appears to you - and if they subsequently agree then it has served its purpose even more so.

 

We may disagree about whether a certain behaviour is arrogant or not. But the person who posted was asking opinions about a problem she has I think that is why I don't connect with a lot of guys, and if I do it's usually older guys.

and I told her mine. It may be wrong but if the guys she is not connecting with have the same opinion as me then it may help her to understand something. She can then choose what to do with the information she is given,

 

It's all very well to say, in effect: 'you are right and they are wrong' - but she could end up being very lonely whereas a small change in the way she interacts with people would get her what she wants. That is not to say she changes her personality.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

Apparently it was in this case as the OP seemed to agree that she came accross like that.

 

she could end up being very lonely whereas a small change in the way she interacts with people would get her what she wants. That is not to say she changes her personality.

 

i don't think it's very nice nor warranted, of you DN to say that. i get the impression she has a lot of empathy for others. she was just saying that this guy takes it over personally and overreacts when she doesn't greet him with the utmost enthusiasm everytime. and why can't he just not expect so much. i completely understand where she's coming from. i've known guys like that too who expect you to be 'on' all the time, and it's tiring, and it wears you out.

[BillyJean714]

Insulting people doesn't help to get a point accross. I doubt that anyone wouldn't find it offensive if someone calls them "arrogant". I'm not the OP, but it didn't sound like very welcoming advice.

 

Here's a thought: What if people called you arrogant for speaking the way you did to her? Would you like it? It sure did sound a bit degrading.

 

Considering the fact that she's here to receive advice about her situation, I see that she cares enough to find ways to resolve things, thereforeeee, I don't find her arrogant. An arrogant person wouldn't care.

 

I personally don't know her, but I certainly wouldn't go as far as to prejudge her without substancial evidence. It's so easy to do so when it's through the internet, since there isn't a face to the name, when people appear to be impersonal/distant to us. It's easier for people to attack someone who they don't know, rather than someone they do know.

 

Believe it or not, when someone says something unkind to another person, it does have an effect.

 

That's why it's important to be mindful about what we say to others, especially if they come here for advice, not insults.

[DN]

I have explained why I said what I said and if you can't accept it in the same way that cranberry has, then I will leave it there.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

billie jean is a smart cookie. not trying to attack you DN, just asking you to take a different look at it.

[DN]

I saw what she said as arrogant and said so. She accepted that as she did points from other people.

 

Again, and for the last time: if I saw that attitude as arrogant then so may others and that may help the OP. If I didn't think my posts would help people, even if they may not vailidate their original point of view, then I would not post.

 

This is an advice site not just somewhere to come and have a viewpoint validated even if people think you may be wrong or ill-advised.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

well you're entitled to your perception of her situation.

[DN]

well you're entitled to your perception of her situation.

 

more accurately, I am entitled to my perception of her words. As are you.

[cranberry]

I admit being called arrogant felt like a slap in ma face...but I quickly realized that it didn't mean that as a person I'm (always) an arrogant just that my behaviour in the situation might have been arrogant. So, if I had been rude or mean to the guy, and then wonder why he backs off...well that is arrogant indeed. In my initial post, I see how that could have been interpreted as I didn't exactly define what I meant by "having a bad day" and I certainly stirred things up by using the word "repercussion" (--apparently, at times, using weird words in my vocabulary just to be different is more of a vice than a virtue). On the spectrum, bad day could have meant I threw a coffee in his face to I was completely mute. But I could have also without saying a word, thrown a coffee in his face just the same.

thereforeeee, I clarified what I meant--quiet, no flirting. At the worst I know I looked upset/peeved, but no, I did not throw a coffee in his face.

Btw, Two weeks ago I would never have thought this lil' instance/situation of mine would have turned into a lil' debate...lol.

[sophie274]

Hi cranberry,

I am sometimes guilty of the same thing as you. When I am having a bad day, I get quieter and a little withdrawn. I've often hoped my boyfriend (of 6 months) would pick up on that and try to cheer me up.

But I guess what I've learned is what DN is saying: that just doesn't work. He wouldn't understand, I would get frustrated, thinking "I can pick up on his moods/feelings, why doesn't he just get mine?". Well hey, he just doesn't. We are two different people with different ways of processing situations and emotions, and it's really hard for him to guess what's going on with me.

Communication! The approach that has worked for me is saying "I'm having a bit of bad day, can you cheer me up?" or just making sure I get a big hug.

In the case of people you don't know very well, I might suggest "faking it". Let me explain. In my experience, I've found that most people like happy people. Put on a smile for a bit, give him a nice hello. This shouldn't be too painful for you to do, and I would bet you will reap the benefits. Seeing him happy might cheer you up, and having a light conversation with him might as well. Or at the very least, you've been nice to him for long enough to maybe strike up a conversation, during which you can mention to him your bad day: maybe you'll find out he's really good at making you feel better!

[Miss M]

I admit being called arrogant felt like a slap in ma face...but I quickly realized that it didn't mean that as a person I'm (always) an arrogant just that my behaviour in the situation might have been arrogant. So, if I had been rude or mean to the guy, and then wonder why he backs off...well that is arrogant indeed. In my initial post, I see how that could have been interpreted as I didn't exactly define what I meant by "having a bad day"

This is why I said the word "arrogant" was misplaced. From my perspective, you hadn't actually mentioned anything I could perceive as arrogant behavior. So "arrogance" had to be assumed. And I don't think asking for advice about a misunderstanding with a flirting buddy should result in your getting "slapped" in the face with someone's unfavorable assumption before you've adequately explained the situation. It seems that before any of us "slap" anybody with that type of description, we should first get clarification, and be absolutely sure of the circumstances.

 

and I certainly stirred things up by using the word "repercussion"

And neither did I see the reason for the reaction to your use of the word repercussion. At that point you still hadn't fully explained the situation, and neither had you explained the repercussion. And for all we knew, you could have had a very legitimate reason for giving someone a "repercussion."

 

And by the way, your behavior in this thread also demonstrates your ability to immediately think of the feelings of others. After consideration, you could quickly put yourself in another poster's position. And you could easily see why someone could reasonably make an inaccurate assumption, and you graciously allowed for that without letting it ruffle you. Even in this thread, when you were unkindly assessed, you actually demonstrated the EXACT OPPOSITE of arrogance, responding kindly to someone who had been abrupt with you. And the stark irony of that is why some of us have felt even more compelled to speak up on your behalf.

[Miss M]

Hi cranberry,

I am sometimes guilty of the same thing as you. When I am having a bad day, I get quieter and a little withdrawn. I've often hoped my boyfriend (of 6 months) would pick up on that and try to cheer me up.

But I guess what I've learned is what DN is saying: that just doesn't work. He wouldn't understand, I would get frustrated, thinking "I can pick up on his moods/feelings, why doesn't he just get mine?". Well hey, he just doesn't. We are two different people with different ways of processing situations and emotions, and it's really hard for him to guess what's going on with me.

Hey sophie, I disagree with this, especially since cranberry has demonstrated that she seems like the type to plug in to others, to be overly accomodating. And besides, her description sounds different than what you're saying. As far as I can tell she wasn't hoping he'd figure it out so he could cheer her up. She just knew she didn't deserve his anger as a result of her being quiet.

 

I think relationships should be BALANCED with neither person doing more than the other. And if a person is already overly accomodating, she might need to actually do something different than what you suggest. Maybe she really needs to shift the balance the other way, require that the other person plug-in and pay attention. Otherwise a person could end up being a doormat. There is not one blanket answer for everyone because it all depends on the individual circumstances.

 

I've found that most people like happy people. Put on a smile for a bit, give him a nice hello. This shouldn't be too painful for you to do, and I would bet you will reap the benefits. Seeing him happy might cheer you up, and having a light conversation with him might as well. Or at the very least, you've been nice to him for long enough to maybe strike up a conversation, during which you can mention to him your bad day: maybe you'll find out he's really good at making you feel better!

And this sounds like really good advice, but I also disagree for this circumstance. Cranberry also said that when this incident happened she was barely able to function, really out of it. But you're saying she needs to plug in, and take care of the other person at a time when she didn't feel able to do that. Again, caretaking is a really good thing, but it definitely shouldn't flow in just one direction. If you're already a very accomodating person, it's really okay to expect the guy to also make some accommodations for your sake. But again, it just depends on the circumstances.

[DN]

but I quickly realized that it didn't mean that as a person I'm (always) an arrogant just that my behaviour in the situation might have been arrogant.

 

Thank you for having the wisdom and understanding to get the point.

[Miss M]

We're still seeing it differently, because I didn't think cranberry was trying to make the "point" you're emphasizing.

 

In her further explanation it seems cranberry is explaining that while she can understand how someone might draw that conclusion (or make that assumption) she's still saying the "arrogant" description didn't accurately describe her, and neither did it ever accurately describe her behavior.

[DN]

Whether you and I see it differently is irrelevant.

 

cranberry was concerned that guys (note the plural) misunderstand her. That seems to me to mean she has a recurring problem. I said that her attitude, as evidenced by her choice of words, seemed to me to be arrogant. If it seems like that to me, it may seem like that to other people. thereforeeee that, coupled with her expectation that guys would pick up on her mood, could be the reasons she is having the problem she is concerned about.

 

MissM, you, and others, are concerned about my choice of the word 'arrogant' and that's ok. But she didn't say she feels that women members of eNotalone misunderstand her. She mentioned a specific instance of a recurring problem about how guys perceive her in 'real life'.

 

It is easy on here to simply validate someone's feelings, or give them sympathy, support and understanding. But if it does not attempt to solve the problem with which they need help they will continue to have the same problem.

 

Another example of this thinking is to say to someone having problems forming relationships: "be yourself and all will be well'. It may temporarily make them feel good and validated. But if there is an aspect of their behaviour while being themselves that means no one wants to have a relationship with them that advice is unlikely to help them find a partner.

 

Words have meaning and just because they are used in context and in an effort to give an insight into behaviour it does not mean that they are intended as an insult or as a 'slap in the face'.

 

Help comes in various forms and just because it may sting a little it doesn't mean it was ill-intentioned nor that it won't assist.

[DN]

There is also something to be said about expecting people to pick up on your mood. That would require you to reciprocate and that could easily turn into a quagmire of misunderstanding.

 

Let's say you are upset by something. You become quiet and moody and expect that people will pick up on that and not take it personally. But, people being people, chances are they will because while you are viewing life from your perspective and how things affect you, they are doing the same thing. While life isn't 'all about me' that is the first thing that we think about usually before we realise it may not be in this instance.

 

But when you expect other people to pick up on your mood you are not thinking about theirs.

 

For example: let's say you are in a bad mood and react towards someone in some negative way (being quiet, or a little snappy or withdrawn). But what happens if they are in a bad mood themselves at the time and their reaction to your mood is less than helpful? Should not you have picked upon their bad mood and adjusted to theirs in the same way that you expect them to adjust to yours? Surely, picking up on moods is a two-way street.

 

One of my daughter's friends came to visit her and spent twenty minutes complaining about various aspects of her life - boyfriend, mother, job etc. Then she got upset because my daughter was not paying close enough attention and left a little upset.

 

But my daughter was in maternity having had a baby by Cesarean the day before and was engaged in feeding the baby!

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

cranberry wasn't rude or arrogant, if anything the other person was. end of story.

[DN]

cranberry wrote think I overanalyzed what happened that day between us waaay too much. Looking back at his behaviour, he wasn't exactly really being rude or short either. I think he was really busy that day as well.

[Miss M]

Whether you and I see it differently is irrelevant.

Well, that's not entirely true, because if it were, neither of us would still be posting. Besides, that statement "we're still seeing it differently" is not really the place to split hairs because it was mostly just a lead-in to the MAIN point, which was that "cranberry was [not] trying to make the point you're emphasizing." After all, you specifically thanked her for understanding your point, as if you thought she agreed with you. But in that post of hers that you quoted, it seemed she was in fact indicating that ultimately she did NOT agree with you. I just found that interesting, and thought it was worth mentioning.

 

Surely, picking up on moods is a two-way street.

And this is what I've also written... more than once. So really, we're often saying the same thing, just seeming to point "IT" in different directions. In cranberry I see a woman who is already very skilled at picking up the moods of others, and is also graciously being sensitive to those. I also know the harm of taking that too far, so I was trying to address that.

 

One of my daughter's friends came to visit her and spent twenty minutes complaining about various aspects of her life - boyfriend, mother, job etc. Then she got upset because my daughter was not paying close enough attention and left a little upset.

 

But my daughter was in maternity having had a baby by Cesarean the day before and was engaged in feeding the baby!

In this example I see cranberry as being more like your daughter, someone who was giving appropriate attention to herself (and her baby) instead of giving it to the other woman. And I think it's okay to do that, and to expect others to get a clue. Again, it should be balanced.

 

Also, if your daughter had complained that this type of thing had become a "recurring problem in her life, would you automatically tell her she was being arrogant for expecting others to plug in to her situation?

[DN]

The point I was making isn't that my daughter was not picking up on her friends mood - she clearly was or she would not have told me about it. But her friend was not paying attention to my daughter except as an audience - she was only thinking about how she felt.

 

cranberry did not pick up on his possible mood until afterwards, when she thought about it having posted on here.

 

But the main issue here, as I see, it is that it is very often hard enough to communicate with someone using plain English. Misunderstandings are common. As human beings our primary way of communicating in person is by the spoken word - that is why we developed language because the secondary ways, such as body language, facial expression and tone of voice are all important but are not so effective and are much more likely to be misinterpreted. As they were here.

 

Assuming that someone is or should be able to pick up on your mood is hazardous because their own mood will affect how they perceive yours and vice-versa. But if you say "sorry, I'm in a bad mood" you have in six simple words explained your demeanor, assured them it is not about them and avoided any misunderstanding.

[cranberry]

When I last replied (post #37), I did so without reading posts #29, 30, 31, 33, because for some odd reason they did not appear for me on the screen. I'm thinking it may have to do with the clock setting I have for eNotalone, which I have not changed to my correct timezone...

Nevertheless, what I said in post #37, I'm still standing by. Yet I still don't see how I came accross as arrogant in the situation. Since when does being quiet = rude or arrogant? Or does nonflirty = arrogant? Or even worse, when does 'not reciprocating to another's flirtiness' = arrogant?

 

I know this is against the rules of a so-called debate, but I need to take back some things I said, well not take back, but more like change/elaborate. Ok, from the top. The first day of the "situation" I came home feeling like this guy had expected me to be all-flirty, and when he didn't get the reaction he had hoped for, it was like it didn't even cross his mind that I have a life that doesn't revolve around him. I thought he was a jerk, just because I hadn't been there to entertain him, like he had expected. I thought, puh-lease, I certainly don't need this drama. And if a guy can't handle that I am not always "on", always flirty, or entertaining him, that I have my own life, then he can--I'm putting this bluntly, but I don't mean literally--drop dead for all I care.

 

At the beginning of our encounter he was flirty, and when I didn't reciprocate, this was when the downfall occurred and he started rushing his answers (to my questions I had to ask him for something else) and he started avoiding eye contact. And then DN's post mentioned that it might have actually been my fault (i.e., I was arrogant). So, then I started to feel guilty, and the next time I saw him I planned on slipping it in that I was having a bad day the other day. Yet the next day, he ran into me, and he seemed sympathetic this time and we had a nice talk. I know I said at first that it wasn't like he was trying to make it up to me, but I think he did feel bad for his behaviour. I told myself that I had probably overanalyzed the situation, because in this convo we just acted like nothing awkward had happened the day before. I think we both felt it was our faults for what happened, but when we saw that the other had no hard feelings about it, it made each of us feel better. Thus, to keep myself from overanalyzing the situation and increasing my guilt, I told myself I had indeed overanayzed the situation.

 

But when I look back on it again, I still see that he was rushing his answers with me and he did avoid eye contact--and he started doing all this when he realized I wasn't reciprocating the flirting. But I also still see (and feel the guilt) that I probably hurt his feelings for not reciprocating his flirtiness (because he is a sweet guy).

And btw, during our encounter I did detect that he might have been irked that I wasn't so flirty this time, but since he was acting like he was in such a rush I couldn't really tell if it was due to me or something else--I was hoping that it wasn't due to me.

[cranberry]

Secondly, I don't disagree to DN's approach to look for the deeper meaning of my post such as an underlying problem. Afterall my title did read, "I feel like guys misunderstand me", and certainly an interpretation of that could be I need a tweak in my personality. And this is perfectly understandle. I've seen posts on here from other people, where they post their problems, and pin it on everone else but themselves. I bet DN has probably read some of my other (recent) posts where in one I basically described myself as being a horrible person, and in the other I described how I am critical of myself...so I'm betting his answers were biased accordingly. And if this was the case, considering my history in his replies was a very thoughtful/intelligent thing to do.

 

From DN's approach, I learned that I should always consider my actions in any situation and how they affect others. I don't think I acted arrogantly in this situation, but I think my sudden unflirtiness threw the guy off, and confused him--and thus it wasn't fair for me to do that.

 

I mentioned I get along with older guys better than guys my age, it's because older guys seem to be able to plug in more. I notice that they can handle talking to you one day flirty, and the next day just a normal conversation. And the shift from flirty to normal conversation is just as it so happens--it happens naturally (NOT part of a game, or on purpose--natural living). In cases like these, the older guy wasn't expecting me to be continuously flirty, just because earlier I had been. It seems like older guys can appreciate me for all my sides, i.e., the flirty side, and the serious side. And the conversations aren't awkward, because the guy doesn't blame himself for my natural transition from flirty to serious.