In a World of Pain

[venus777]

So this guy I've been dating for the last month, we had sex for the first time on Monday. He called me a couple of times the following day while hanging out with his friends, we made nebulous plans for Saturday night.

I posted about this the other day, what I didn't mention was the crucial part.

I was at a party and we were calling each other about hanging out afterwards and right as I was about to go to his house he called me back and said he was going to hang out with his friends and could I come afterwards. It was already midnight. This made me upset. I said, why don't we x out tonight. He said could he call me tomorrow, I said I guess. Then we hung up, I was mad. I called him back and said "i don't want to be this girl you just **** when it's convenient.

He said, o.k. it's not how it is, but o.k. and we hung up. I called him back, he didn't answer I left him a message, he called me back and said he was insulted I would say that. I explained that I'm trying to be protective of myself because I'd been used before.

So... he said he'd call me that night, after hanging out with his friends, but he did not call me and I woke up in the middle of the night having a nightmare about him. I then called him and left a message just saying I felt bad and wanted to talk with him. And I sent him an email, it was nice, just apologizing and saying that I just didn't want to get hurt.

He didn't call me back all day. And by 4:30 that night I was hurting bad. I called him, left a message saying I was hoping we'd get a chance to talk. He didnt call back. I called him back from a different phone an hour or so later (by a friends suggestion) and he answered and said he'd call me in an hour. Two hours later, he hadnt called me. I called him, he didn't answer. I then decided to go to his house. He said he didn't understand why I came unnannounced, that not even his homies do that. And I said, it was because I'd had a really emotionally draining week prior to that at work and I just couldn't be left hanging on this for any longer, I wanted to have a relaxing weekend and this was stressful. He said that it seemed like if I was going to react like this to small things then how would I react when something really important happened.

It seemed like he just wouldn't acknowledge however my main point. He was treating me like booty call. He said he wasn't using me for sex and that's not what he is about. And that was it, but I was left feeling like I was just crazy.

Agh, I mean I guess I just feel bad cause if I'd had more self control he would have eventually called me and we could have talked, but now I've completely DESTROYED it by my pure embardment of him. Is there any chance that if I withdraw he won't think I'm crazy, or have I destroyed all hope of anything???? Agh, I mean, I guess I shouldn't care cause if he really cared about me he would have called right???

[LostInMyThoughts]

It sounds like you two aren't on the same page with your relationship.

 

If you two have been dating for a month, it doesn't sound like you are a booty call.

 

I can understand why he might think you're overreacting (personally I don't think you are--he shouldn't have blown you off like that).

 

Maybe you two should have a discussion to how you think the relationship is going. It might be too early, but then again you two have had sex...

 

Good luck.

[Lansing]

If a guy says he will call and doesn't.. well, I think that is a red flag... Why couldn't he find a few minutes to call you back during that long day? Even if he didn't get your message, and for some BIZAR reason wasn't able to call the night before, then, well, he should have called the first thing the next day!

 

After reading many of these posts by different people, it makes me wonder how long one should be waiting before having sex with someone. Even with the last girl I was dating I had the feeling she wanted more physically but, I knew it was right to hold off until I knew her more. Now, I am glad I did because she all the sudden flaked out and isn't returning my contact after some BS she told me.... If I had sex with her, I am sure I would be in a pretty crappy state right now...

[robowarrior]

Chill out.

 

A relationship is all about being together but still for each one being able to do their own thing. Freedom within boundries. Give him and yourself some very needed breathing space. I see a relationship like a dog on a leash, if you pull it too tight, the dog will suffocate, if you hold it too loose the dog will run away, so 'moderation' is the key. Calling him every second makes you look like some victim of the paranoid. Yes you have been used in the past and yes i agree its good to be a little sceptical, but give him a chance to earn your trust. You also have still friends right? , if you'd hang out with them how much appreciation would you give to your guy if he harassed you thru the phone asking difficult questions and doubting the value of the relationship, true or not true. Such should be discussed in a private way in which both parties complain about their behaviour and get things settled , not in public via the phone.

 

Not only because that is too impersonal , but also irresponsable because if your wrong you'd make a complete fool of yourself having your partner seriously questioning the essensial fundaments of the relationship. Yes you deserve answers but do so in a bit more elegant way please.

[venus777]

i think i already blew it, i don't think i can ask "where is this going?" i think he would have made some attempt to reassure me if he wanted to be with me. i think he would have tried to call me right away the following morning if he cared, given that i told him i felt bad and had a nightmare about him. even if he wasn't ready to talk, he could have sent me a short email saying he needed to think about things, just to relieve some pressure off of me. i feel like it was kind of cruel to ignore me, especially given that we just had sex for the first time together on monday...

i don't know, there is nothing i can do at this point except wait and see if he ever does call me again to hang out. i feel tired and exhausted emotionally after yesterday. i sent him an email late last night saying i just wanted him to see how in initial phases of a relationship a man has to make the extra efforts to prove to a woman that he values her as an individual and not just as a body and that i felt like a lot of people would feel it booty call if they were called to come over at 1 am, even if that was not his intention. Especially since he didn't invite me to hang out with his friends at all, but just afterwards, like I'm just supposed to leave the party, go home and just wait for him to be ready for me to come over. ??? That sounds crazy. Like I'm just a lapdog or something. I didn't call him purposefully while he was with his friends... We were talking on the phone while he was at his house and apparently he must have started hanging out with his friends before I called him the second time but there was no way for me to know.

I don't know it just hurts really bad. It started to feel like it was going well, and then I do feel like I overreacted and couldn't restrain myself from trying to get an answer out of him about what was going on... I feel like I spoiled it.

[hosswhispra]

How did he treat you in the month that you were dating, prior to you two sleeping together? I would back-off a bit and wait for him to contact you, Venus777. He just may some space and time to get his thoughts together.

[renaissancewoman101]

Dont be so hard on yourself. Things happen. I know. I used to get like the way you get when I was dating someone. I get nervous and worried if the guy didnt call me back. Then I would try to call them and see what was going on. From my last relationship, I learned a lot about relationships and what keeps a guy's interest. What I think you should do right now is just back off a bit, leave the guy alone, and go about your life. If you give him some space, provided not too much damage has been done, he is very liable to call you and see how you are doing and check up on you because he hasnt heard from you in a while. Good luck. I know it is hard when you worry that you messed up the whole thing. Give it some time and space. All is not lost.

[Scout]

If it's this guy Venus... , is it too early for me to say, "I told you so"?

 

Your heart was telling you at the very beginning of this relationship that there was something about this guy you didn't trust. A month later, and it sounds like you're more insecure than ever over his intentions.

[Scotcha]

I don't have a lot of advice. If you are dating, and I mean actual dates, not just a slew of late night phone calls, then I don't think you have a lot to worry about. I can also understand how he might get offended. Imagine if you were dating someone you cared about and they accused you of likeing them only for their money or their car, whatever.. Wouldn't you feel a bit put off?

 

Also, he took the time to date you for a month. I'd hardly say he would put that much time into something he could've gotten as a one night stand, you know what I mean.

 

Sometimes my boyfriend will have a guy night with his friends. They'll go to the bar or play poker but he always calls me when he's done and if I can he'll invite me to come over. Not for sex but for sleeping together and having that feeling of, "He's coming home to me." If I called him accusing him of using me or cheating I would gaurntee myself that I wouldn't be getting that phone call.

 

It's not that I'm a lap dog and await for his call. It's that sometimes we do things separately with our own friends.

 

Were your plans to hang out set in stone? Or were you only talking about what each of you were doing afterwards? If you had actual plans I think you have every right to be angry about being blown off.. Still an issue (I HATE being blown off) but not the same as being a booty call by any means. If you didn't have actual plans I'd be hurt a little bit at most and wouldn't make an issue of it at all. I kind of think he might just need some breathing room right now.

[Scotcha]

I just read your "Help in the Dating Department" thread.. This guy sounds flakey. Do you really want to be with someone who makes a habit of blowing you off, not calling, and not answering your phone calls? It seems like the issue might have more to do with HIM than the misunderstanding above.

[venus777]

no... after that occurrence he always answered my calls or got back to me in a timely way. that happened ONCE. i don't feel like an i told you so is warranted. what you need to be looking out for is me not him. i'm gun shy, paranoid and projecting onto him my conceptions of what is going to happen before they even do. that one night, things weren't set in stone and he didn't call me back. he didn't have to either. we had only gone on one date prior to that really, we hadn't even kissed or anything, there was nothing set in stone. i'm not defending him, just aware that i've overreacted.

my point about the bootie call thing though, is that we aren't in a steady relationship with trust already established. if we'd been dating as b/f g/f for a while it'd be normal and fine. but we're/were in initial stages, so a guy has to be more careful.

honestly, i think he is a normal guy in the sense he wants to avoid drama and i'm bringing it. i get mad at him and then apologize a half hour later. i call him, email him, go to his house. obviously i look to him like a girl with issues.

when i was at his house he reassured me he didn't want me for sex and we could just be friends and i could come over and just hang out with him. and i could tell by the sex and his shyness that he hasn't had any sex in a long time... so, honestly i think he is just being a cautious human being wary of me. i have to defend him because i was reacting to my own fears at that time, the same way i was reacting to my fears yesterday. honestly, i KNEW he'd eventually call me back, i just wanted to talk to him IMMEDIATELY and just couldn't wait. that wasn't fair to him.

needless to say, i DO feel I've messed up something that could have been good.

[Scotcha]

If your previous post was only a one time occurrence as you say it is than follow the advice in my first reply to you which is to stop making an issue of it and give him an actual chance to call you back.

 

I disagree with you that it is up to him to keep you from feeling this way. I also don't think that he should have to be more careful. I've learned the hard way that the only way to keep myself from feeling like a booty call is to not put myself into a situation where I could end up feeling that way. Please don't think I'm passing judgement because believe me, I'm in no place to do that. I'm just saying that I've been in your shoes, I know what it feels like, and untimately I've been to blame.

 

Would becoming exclusive with him make you feel more secure? If that is what you want have a conversation and see where he is at.

[venus777]

well, i am not even sure that he wants to date me after all that. he told me my actions were making him want to run away because i seemed like i was getting upset over small things.... which he was right, i was, i was overreacting. how can he possibly trust me now that i overreacted twice and we haven't even known each other that long? we just spoke yesterday, and since then i sent him an email at 1:30 and then in the morning an email cause i realized that a text message in it had a typo making a really rude statement to him. i think after all that, he's got to be exhausted already...

at this point, i think i have to just take all of your advice from everyone and not call him again or write him or do anything. i've expressed my perspective to him more than enough times that he should know what my viewpoint is on it. if he thinks i'm crazy or too dramatic or whatever, then he'll decide to move on. at the very least we probably need some a couple of days without talking after yesterday for some space. which, is it healthy to *need* space when you've only been dating for a month? i don't know.

he seemed like he wanted to still hang out with me yesterday, but i am really, really doubtful he'll want to talk to me again. i really went overboard... but it was because i was feeling so crappy my actions were INTENTIONALLY making it so we wouldn't hang out again... then, i regret it afterwards like immediately. you know, mercury is in retrograde, not that it's an excuse though...

[Scotcha]

I have a tendency to act in ways very similar to the way you did. I always regret it but at the time I just feel so out of control I can't help it. Also, I ALWAYS end up making the situation worse ten fold. It's almost like: I feel crappy and so I act in a way that's going to create a situation that will validate my feelings. I don't know if you can relate to that or not but I just see a lot of myself in this thread.

 

Regardless, if he does decide to continue dating you, simply apologize for over reacting. Also, I've found that it is never in my best interest to do much of anything when I am overly emotional. (Of course, at the time I don't think I'm being overly emotional, I think I have every right to feel that way and I just want to prove it to make it better...) If there really is a problem that needs to be addressed it would be better solved once I have had the time to calm down.

 

I wish I had better advice about your relationship but sometimes the only thing you can do is wait and see. I hope everything works out for you.

[Lady Bugg]

LOL VENUS...Mercury IS in retrograde..meaning communication is a little crazy, and possibly going backward. If you're into Astrology, this might explain a lot

 

I have been in your shoes. Projecting my feelings onto someone about the way things MAY play out. That is really an unfair thing to do though. That is ALSO known as a 'self fulfilling prophecy". In a way you are setting yourself up for the exact failure you anticipate.

 

The bottom line is this: You cannot control other people's actions, reactions, feelings. Only YOURS. If this guy does something you don't like...YOU have the option of not puting up with it, or just dealing with it...but you cannot expect HIM to do what YOU want him to do or not do. You can tell him his decision bothers you but manipulating him with guilt is STILL telling him what to do or not do. If you tell him you are not happy with something and he chooses to do it anyway, then THAT speaks volumes.

Again, the ONLY person you have control over is YOU. YOU have more power than you think you do.

 

It also sounds like you are a bit of a control freak ..and this is NOT meant as a criticism. By what you've described it sounds like this guy makes you feel out of control, with the direction things are going. Your need to know the "how, what, when and where" is what I am talking about. I know this feeling all too well. You think if he gives you the answers YOU want to hear this will give you more control...but again, you cannot control OTHER people, no matter how hard you try or how you try to "guise" it.

 

Venus, I have been exactly where you are, so I KNOW how you feel.

You are not wrong or crazy for feeling this way at all. You just need to let up

on needing to have ALL the answers. The more you press...the less you'll get. Just relax and go with the flow. Don't expect other people to be like you are, let them be who they are. This will actually make you feel MORE in control...by NOT trying to control an uncontrollable siuation. Focus on YOU.

Make sense?

[venus777]

yeah, it totally makes sense what you are saying. it was frustrating to me that he didn't have a clear answer about if we were going to hang out or not and then dropped me for unclear reasons. it was not knowing what was going on.

yeah, i feel bad mostly cause i think i completely destroyed it and i almost want to email him and ask him, are you ever going to talk to me again? but i know that by doing that i just make it worse. that's the hardest thing, not having anything i can do, all the control being out of my hands completely. i really think he won't call me or write me again, but then when i was at his house he gave the impression he was still wanting to hang out with me, i just think i might have made it worse AFTER that by continuing to explain myself. agh. i will try and relax. i'm already feeling a little bit less pain cause work is distracting me, but it still really hurts and it's frustrating that the only thing i can do is nothing, you know?

YES and its true about the self fulfilling prophecy. i've had a negative outlook since the beginning, and the control thing is really true. aaaaaagh. it's a hard thing to change. i'm just going to turn my phone off for a week and not look at it....

[Lady Bugg]

There you go Venus. If it makes you feel MORE in control of yourself by turning off your phone then DO it. That is SOMETHING YOU can control.

I agree that emailing him right now and asking him if he's ever going to talk to you again is a BAD idea. That is forcing him to make a decision. Don't do that.

You sound so much like I used to be..and have that tendency still, so have to check myself. Sometimes doing NOTHING is the hradest thing to do because we are so used to trying to control what we cannot.

 

A book you might want to read while you take a break from this guy is Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood. You might see a lot of yourself in that book. I did. Sometimes we get addicted to relationships and the outcome of them, that we lose US. Some women (myself included) get so absorbed in controlling their relationships or "making it work"..or fixing a guy as a way to take the focus off of ourselves and our OWN shortcomings.

Check it out if you haven't read it. It's worth the read.

[venus777]

do you think it's a good idea to just write him something short just saying that i realize i recognize that the only one that can keep myself from feeling used is me and i shouldn't have put the responsibility on him. just like a one line email saying that? i just feel like after everything i said, maybe i should recognize that... or should i just not say anything?

[venus777]

oh and mostly i am turning my phone off and hiding it til friday so i don't have to keep looking at it wondering if he's called me. its painful.

[Lady Bugg]

Hmmm..

 

How about something like:

I would like to apologize for my behavior recently. I have projected my feelings onto you because of things that happened in the past, and I realize that is unfair, and it is completely MY issue. I am working on changing that. I hope you will be patient with me while I try to work through it.

 

I would then tell him you are taking a break from the situation to evaulate

things. This puts the blame on YOU not him, and it puts the ball back in YOUR court, so to speak..and you've kept your dignity.

 

How does that sound?

[venus777]

well, i already told him all of the first paragraph. i said he was right about everything EXCEPT that i still felt that asking someone to come over at 1 am was for an established relationship not one just starting and that most people would feel like booty call. i said the last week was really emotionally draining and what he said was just like the needle that broke the camels back (not in those words exactly). i said i knew coming over was inappropriate and all of the emails and calls were too much and that i had been in hot pursuit of closure. i accepted the blame. i said i felt burnt out on things now.

i can't help but wonder if that comment about closure to him might make it seem like i already want closure, but i was thinking at the time he'd understand i meant that in that moment that was what i wanted... my destructive behavior...

[Lady Bugg]

Venus...

 

I think sometimes we act in "destructive" ways as a way to push the very people away that we want to stay..because we EXPECT them to leave us anyway, so this is our defense mechanism. We force the issue rather than waiting it out. This is especially true if there was an infidelity...OR if you were ever abandoned or neglected as a child. As I said before, I think if you read that book, you will say "WOW, that makes a LOT of sense, NOW I understand why I do that". Use this week away from this guy as a way to do some self reflection. Seriously.

[Scout]

Venus, I get the feeling that you believe you're mostly to blame for how things are going with this guy. But, he has behaved inconsistently from the very beginning. Not establishing firm plans and expecting you to wait until 1 a.m. to come over is sending a clear signal that he's not taking your feelings into consideration. You can slice and dice this anyway you want, but if the person you are agonizing over can't even commit to date plans, of course you're going to feel frustrated.

 

What really concerns me is your first post about this guy. I had a bad feeling about him then, and seeing you post a thread a few weeks later titled "A World of Pain" isn't easing my previous concerns. You should not be feeling such pain and misery one month into a relationship.

 

However, I was hesitant to write this post, because it seems you are quick to defend his very actions that cause you such pain.

[Lady Bugg]

I agree with Scout here too Venus. She makes some very valid points....take them into consideration.

[venus777]

i don't know..... i hear what you are saying, but i don't think he did anything wrong really. sure he could have been more considerate, but he made it clear that if i didn't want to come over at 1 am then we could hang out the following day but i still got upset. there could be lots of reasons why he didn't invite me to hang out with his friends, he could even be just worried on how we'll interact with each other but not want to say that to me because when i do meet them it would make it more uncomfortable...

 

i mean, honestly, if you knew that before that night he flaked out, i already EXPECTED him to flake out, you'd realize that I am actually projecting out my expectations on him. if he was anyone else, i wouldn't have even cared. but it was really because i was anxious to meet with him, excited to see him that i was so incredibly disappointed and then got upset with him. and actually, the reason i kind of expected him to flake was that we didn't have concrete plans exactly. i mean, i see that he does the same thing with everyone else. people call him and he doesn't answer. i don't think it's a personal thing, it's just how he is. in other cases, he has called me back. but i turned cold and hot on him on saturday night, that freaks people out. getting mad and then immediately calling back to apologize makes people think you are overly dramatic. truth is i could have been WAY more relaxed about something that wasn't so serious, but i wasn't. i'm the one causing myself my own pain, not him. i can't expect him to react or be the way that i would be... do you see what i'm saying? i mean, you don't have to... you could be right, but knowing my own personal history with drama and anxiety in relationships i worry about my own self...