Sex in my marriage is hopless. Should I issue a wakeup call?

[the yang to the worlds yin]

is this what you've reduced yourself too? a great husband who's about to try and purpousely upset the people that lvoe him so he caqn feel good about his marriage again? you know what will happen.... you'll get your reaction, and you'll realise it's not going to feel as good as your thinking it will. you wanna do something about this, get a DIVORCE.

[Scout]

I'm sorry, Cranston. I do believe you've put in effort. I guess my earlier impression was that perhaps you were a workaholic, because you kept mainly stressing your role as the financial provider. I just wanted to point out that's not enough. I am impressed you bought books on reviving the romance, by the way! It sounds like you've been hurting for a long time, and it's definitely built up into some real anger. You're certainly appearing on the edge of blowing your top.

 

But I have to ask...how is it possible you could be so miserable, and your wife thinks there is nothing wrong? Unless she is the most deluded person in the world, which I seriously doubt or you wouldn't have married her, this total disconnect has to be because of the way you two are/aren't communicating.

 

Before you do something horrible - and no matter how angry you are at her, she does not deserve for you to threaten her with infidelity - would you please consider telling her, either we get relationship counseling or I'm moving out?

 

I'm sure that will likewise shake her up.

[Cranston]

No apologies are necessary, Scout.

 

Well, I guess that was the initial plan of my original post. But as I think about it, the best I can hope for is some more "duty" sex so that she doesn't lose her work mule (me). I need for her to want me like I want her. That's why I resist the notion of marriage counseling or anything like that, because the sex and affection will come out of a rational, pragmatic decision and as such will be devoid of any of that love magic.

 

I am not kidding about this. I'm not whining, either. This is serious.

 

PS: No, I'm not a workaholic, I work 40, sometime 50 hours a week. When my daughter was born, I took 4 months off from work so I could be there to help with the initial months the baby's life

[Scout]

No apologies are necessary, Scout.

 

Well, I guess that was the initial plan of my original post. But as I think about it, the best I can hope for is some more "duty" sex so that she doesn't lose her work mule (me). I need for her to want me like I want her. That's why I resist the notion of marriage counseling or anything like that, because the sex and affection will come out of a rational, pragmatic decision and as such will be devoid of any of that love magic.

 

Wrong! No it won't. You know what counseling will provide? A safe environment for both of you to really lay out on the table your fears, your disappointments, your uncertainties, and yes, your anger.

 

While that's scary, it seems to me that is what is critically needed for you two to reconnect.

 

The question is, can you really handle that?

[Scout]

Therapy will also provide a way for you two to rediscover each other, once you are both able to open up in a safe environment. And when you rediscover each other...well, you know what that leads to!

[PocoDiablo]

Man, I gotta admit ... you're ANGRY Cranston. It comes through all your posts, and I wonder if it comes out in real life. Not that I blame you, don't get me wrong, but it sure does color your decisions.

 

You want to go out with another woman? At best that will piss her off, at worst she'll call for the divorce, call you an adulterer, and sue your pants off in divorce court.

 

If you want to be a challenge, how about go take some dance lessons. Alone. She'll wonder where you've been and why you come home sweaty and tired. And after a few weeks then you can take her out dancing. The excercise will probably do you some good and you'll feel better about yourself, you'll be able to connect with other people, and you'll learn a new skill with which you can try to re-connect with your wife.

 

As far as therapy, I'm not a big fan of it. Me, personally, I'd recommend you learn how to FLIRT! Granted, you're not flirting with us (you're probably a little more annoyed with us, eh? ) but it *seems* like you're really serious all the time. That's the ANTI-challenge. It's booooooring. It's predictable. It's also *really* hard to flirt with someone who's bored with you. But if you put some effort into it, you might get some damn good results.

 

And I don't know about this, but when was the last time you actually got in a fight with your wife? Ever? Did you resolve things and have make-up sex? All I know is that can be very powerful. I can't explain it, but as far as I can tell the dynamic of speaking your mind, right or wrong, and arguing over it and then working it out does something to ignite passions. From what I can tell you went in there the other day, asked about the sex, got upset and walked away. I think that's the wrong thing to do. I think you need to use that anger you have built up and bring it up a notch - just a *little* bit. Instead of walking out, and her tabling it, tell her "No, I don't think so. This is a big issue, and we're going to figure something out." Take some control here, don't quit so easily.

 

Really, I think she is in control of you, and that is creating the disparity. You're not the strong *man* she is looking for. You're not sexy because you're passive in some way. I mean, heck, your solution for having sex is very passive-aggressive, in my opinion. Rather than focus more energy on a different approach, you're going to spend that time and energy with a *different* woman? I mean ... come on, how is that what a leader would do? How is that something a gentleman would do? That is - in my opinion - something a 12 year old would do. It's akin to the "Well, if you won't play with me, I'm going to take my toys and go play with someone else. You can't be my friend any more. Mheh! " It's just so immature in my opinion.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of this is *easy*, not by a long shot. But I do think you've got some stuff to learn. You probably need to learn to put your foot down, in my opinion. You probably need to learn to fight through things until you feel you at least got somewhere. You probably need to learn how to excite a woman with your own merits (not material items or status) such as flirting, joking, conversational skills, and challenge. You probably need to learn to be a little more of a leader in your relationship, rather than letting her tell you when things are going to happen or not. I'm not saying to force her to have sex, obviously, but have you ever thought about teasing her?

 

When was the last time you gave her an hour long massage with body oils? Ever? You could do that, and never touch her errogenous zones. Why? Because it's teasing and it's a challenge.

 

When is the last time you gave her an orgasm - or three - and didn't have sex with her afterwards?

 

When was the last time you gave her an orgasm FIRST?

 

When was the last time you bought her some bath ... whatevers? Fizzy balls, salts, all that froo-froo stuff.

 

When was the last time you had a picnic dinner on a boat on the lake?

 

When was the last time you had a pillow fight?

 

I sent you some resources via email, have you looked at any of them? Have you gotten any ideas that might help? Here you are looking for answers and we can only give you so much. There are tons of resources out there for guys like you, and you owe it to yourself to at least look at them.

 

When I was in my sexless marriage I felt the same way as you did. I was mad, I felt like I was sleeping next to my sister. Yeah, I cared about her, but what was the point? Well, what I came to realize was that I was one boring motherf*****. I did exactly what you are suggesting. I hung out with another woman (and boy, did that blow up in my face) and I thought about divorce all the time. What it came down to was the simple and irrefutable fact that I had no relationship skills, no social skills, and I could not flirt to save my life. I was always serious, I was a follower, I was indecisive, I was lazy, and I had a selfish sense of entitlement that I see in you. That got me nowhere.

 

Why do you think I sent you those links? Why do you think we're doing all this? Really, I think you're tired of her and you're blinded by your anger. I know I was. It takes a lot of effort to see through the years of misery (almost 11 years of pathetic to no sex for me) and realize that you are the root of your own problems. In the long run, the Doc Love stuff I sent you was the eye opener. I read it and realized I was being a complete idiot. You owe it to yourself to read some of his articles, and maybe even pick up his book ("The Dating Dictionary") from eBay. There is one for sale right now for $59 (instead of the $100) he charges and it's well worth the money. I've recommended that one little book to dozens of folks and they've all done complete 180's after reading it a few times. What do you have to lose?

 

That's my take on it. You're doing everything I did, what can I say? I am pretty sure you're on the same path as I was, and the trick is that it's easily fixed IF you take the time and effort to learn to be a better man. But you can't ignore the resources that are out there and expect things to miraculously work themselves out.

[BONO]

WOW !

 

 

Scruff

[OceanEyes]

All I can say is that I really agree with Poco. There is so much that I found to be true in his posts that I found myself nodding and saying, "wow" throughout his entire post.

 

There are many ways to see this situation, I just happen to agree with Poco. You have a very lucky girlfriend!

[Lunabelle]

I'm the oil and the fuel that keeps the whole family running smoothly.

 

In my experience, when someone has this attitude, reality is generally just the opposite.

 

Why should Cranston's wife have sex with him when he obviously does not respect her?

 

I can relate, not to Cranston, but to his wife. I won't have sex with my husband either. If he can't live without it, it's his problem, not mine. When I agreed to marry, at no time did I relinquish my personal rights to my own body. And if I don't want to share my body, I don't have to, married or not. And I don't share my body with people who hurt me.

 

I think there's waaayyy too much denial going on here, Cranston, you really need to see a therapist ALONE and work on YOUR problems, including more than likely a problem with denied anger and resulting passive-aggressive behaviors that have driven your wife away. Only when you have your own self together will marriage counseling be effective for you both.

 

It almost "smells" like you are the one actually wanting the divorce, and looking hard to be able to blame her for it.......

 

I would be happy to provide more input from the woman's point of view here, if anyone actually wants to hear it.

 

PS to Cranston, Poco's post -- it is RIGHT ON! I'll bet you could save your marriage if you actually took his advice.

[melrich]

Hey Poco, that is a really insightful post. It would be great if you could make it "generic" and post as a stad-alone on the main board. I think a lot of members would be interested to read it and it would certainly make some people think.

[Cranston]

So this is interesting ... I declare that in spite of all my efforts and my being a good guy my wife isn't interested in sex. And somehow, through my posts I gave you all the impression that :

 

1) I pushed my wife away because I'm a humorless, angry, controlling bum

2) I'm boring

3) I don't know anything about romance

4) I'm selfish

5) I need to see a therapist because I obviously have issues

 

My God! How did you all come up with all this?

 

Anyway, thank you all for your help. I'll do what I can.

[Scout]

Well...I didn't draw the same conclusions at all, but I can see that you definitely had to wade through some very strongly opinionated feedback. Of course, if you announce you're going to get your wife's attention by going out with a co-worker, you should kind of expect you're going to get strong reactions, lol.

 

Bottom line, while we may not be approving of that, we're contributing to this post because we want to see your marriage become a more fulfilling one for you. Not to attack you or put you down.

[BellaDonna]

I don't think anyone was trying to be mean or insulting...... I think the point was to show that there are 2 sides to every story, and that there are probably things going with both you and your wife, that contribute to this vicious cycle of a sexless marriage.

 

The current strategies you have used did not work, and did not get you the result you wanted (sex and intimacy). It may be time to think outside of the box and to see yourself as part of the change that needs to occur to improve the quality of your marriage. You need to see your role in all of it too.

 

I have to say, Poco's advice was right on. As a happy wife, I can vouch for how important the things he listed are. Lunabelle gives a great perspective from a woman who feels sexually distanced from her husband and why. Ultimately what you decide to do is your decision, but think long and hard about what these individuals shared with you about their own experiences, because I think it could really help you, your wife, your marriage.

 

I hope things work out for you!

 

BellaDonna

[Scout]

At the same time, what you have done is definitely noted: taking time off after the birth of your child, the reading of different books on how to improve your marriage, the attempts at communicating what you want with your wife.

 

But like Bella Donna says, despite all this work, your marriage is still in big trouble. Often, that really is an indication that the husband and wife are clearly disconnected from each other's needs, and the right kind of communication and empathy is what is missing.

 

There's no shame in therapy. Certainly not compared to infidelity.

[egirl2005]

Hi Cranston:

 

I didn't get the impression that you are a bad guy at all. In fact I see a lot of myself in you. My husband has neglected me physically for years and when I tried to talk to him about it he brushed it aside like it didn't matter or there really wasn't a problem. I read all the books, I tried sexy clothes, being aggressive, being demure, I wanted to go to couselling, I work, I take care of our son, our home etc. etc.

 

One year ago he had an affair with a co-worker, he still works with her and can't seem to make up his mind where he wants to be but he doesn't want to let his housekeeper, banker etc. etc. go. He gave to her what I had been asking for no begging for, for years. I'm not talking once a month in our case, I'm talking every 6 to 9 months. My husband has not touched me since August of 2004!

 

I understand that you are ready to give up (because I am) and maybe that is for the best in this case because like my husband it sounds like your wife wants it her way and only her way. Now I could be wrong, we are hearing only your side of things, but if she can tell you that your needs are not even important enough to discuss, where do you go from there?

 

My one piece of advice, do not, do not go out with anyone especially a co-worker. You will come off the bad guy no matter what, end of story. Your children will never look at you the same, you are involving a third party in your problems and they don't deserve that, and you will be jepordizing your job but most important of all....YOU WILL NEVER LOOK AT YOURSELF THE SAME AGAIN. EVEN IF YOU FEEL JUSTIFIED, YOU WILL HAVE DONE SOMETHING THAT IS WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS. What if you come to care about this co-worker you are talking about, will your children and family ever accept her, or will she just be the homewrecker.

 

If you have exhausted on options and feel you need more get your divorce and move on; you, your family and children will respect yourself more in the long run.

 

My husband had the audacity to tell me after his affair if sex was so important that I was willing to ruin our son's life by leaving him I should just go out to a street corner and pick up the first guy I see.

 

I'm still trying to make my husband love and respect me in all it's forms (not only as a person but a woman) but each day gets harder and I doubt he and I will ever get past all this. I'm 38 years old and I have told him it's her or me, not more inbetween. If he stays I expect everything, if he can't be that then leave with my blessing. I just hope this time he doesn't play me.

 

While that my piece, may not help but it can't hurt. An affair is never an answer, even a date, it just clouds the picture.

[hardcharger]

Cranston, I'm totally on your side bro! Good luck with your needs.

[Cranston]

Cranston, I'm totally on your side bro! Good luck with your needs.

Thanks! Nice to know someone gets what I'm talking here ...!

[novaseeker]

I think a lot of people here are being very presumptuous about Cranston and his situation. While I agree that marital problems are usually (not always) a joint issue (typically not equally, but often both parties play some role in the problem), it seems many posters are eager to lay the blame at Cranston's feet, which strikes me as unfair.

 

I would recommend counseling for you and your wife, Cranston. Somewhere along the line communication seems to have broken down and so forth, and the communication you're trying now isn't working. There may or may not be something worth saving, but it's always worth trying. I wouldn't let the posters here guide you down the path of second-guessing yourself ... talk to a counselor about your situation to get a real and objective view about things, and good luck.

[Scout]

I would recommend counseling for you and your wife, Cranston. Somewhere along the line communication seems to have broken down and so forth, and the communication you're trying now isn't working. There may or may not be something worth saving, but it's always worth trying. I wouldn't let the posters here guide you down the path of second-guessing yourself ... talk to a counselor about your situation to get a real and objective view about things, and good luck.

 

Actually, that's exactly what I and other posters suggested to Cranston already and for the same reasons, but he seems to think that counseling is a regimented/unpassionate way to fix his marital problems. Refer back to previous posts.

[novaseeker]

Actually, that's exactly what I and other posters suggested to Cranston already and for the same reasons, but he seems to think that counseling is a regimented/unpassionate way to fix his marital problems. Refer back to previous posts.

 

Yes I saw that post. I was hoping to change his mind on that, because I do think counseling can work ... no guarantee, but at the very least you end up with a clearer view of things as they are and how they may have gotten there.

[Cranston]

Yes I saw that post. I was hoping to change his mind on that, because I do think counseling can work ... no guarantee, but at the very least you end up with a clearer view of things as they are and how they may have gotten there.

 

I have gone to great lengths, only a portion of which I have explained here, to deal with this situation. The only thing I haven't done is marriage counseling and I can't stand the idea. I know its the right thing to try, but I feel like my self-image and self-respect has already taken too much of a beating. I feel like I am going to a stranger to say "Please convince my wife to have sex with me". If thats what it takes, its not worth it. Even thinking about it makes me want to leave the marriage.

[Scout]

I have gone to great lengths, only a portion of which I have explained here, to deal with this situation. The only thing I haven't done is marriage counseling and I can't stand the idea. I know its the right thing to try, but I feel like my self-image and self-respect has already taken too much of a beating. I feel like I am going to a stranger to say "Please convince my wife to have sex with me". If thats what it takes, its not worth it. Even thinking about it makes me want to leave the marriage.

 

I feel you're making a real attempt to clarify how you're feeling here, Cranston, and I commend you for that. Seriously, this is a sticky subject and it's obviously one that has been painful for you for some time. I do see that your wife is not putting the focus on her marriage that she should, and I do recognize that you went to great lengths before.

 

But you must have loved each other for certain reasons when you married, and yes, work and children can let you both lose sight of those things. Finally, the sad fact is that human beings are never, ever going to be perfect. Our partners will let us down sometimes, and other times, it will feel like we're having to do more than our share of the work. All I can say is, if you put that effort in, you are more likely to get what you want back than if you do nothing or do things that are sure to destroy the relationship.

 

Now let me ask you something...do you really think you'd be content if your wife just agreed to have sex with you whenever you want? I don't think so. I think you want her to see you again as her husband, her mate, her partner.

 

And if you go to a relationship counselor about this, that's not asking a stranger to get your wife to have sex with you. In fact, it's you telling your wife, "If you value this marriage and want to stay in it, you're going to have to step up to the plate here and go to counseling."

 

It's you who is gaininig some control back if you do this.

[novaseeker]

I have gone to great lengths, only a portion of which I have explained here, to deal with this situation. The only thing I haven't done is marriage counseling and I can't stand the idea. I know its the right thing to try, but I feel like my self-image and self-respect has already taken too much of a beating. I feel like I am going to a stranger to say "Please convince my wife to have sex with me". If thats what it takes, its not worth it. Even thinking about it makes me want to leave the marriage.

 

No, it's not to convince your wife to have sex with you, it's for you (and your wife) to figure out how you got to where you are, and what the right way forward would be for both of you (together or apart).

 

No way you can figure that out if you are in the midst of an affair. That will only make your wife want to have sex with you less, not more, and will cloud everything else in the marriage. It's better to do the counseling thing for a while because at a minimum it will help you understand how you got to where you are, and whether it makes sense to try to move forward or not. I'd strongly recommend giving it a try.

[BellaDonna]

I have gone to great lengths, only a portion of which I have explained here, to deal with this situation. The only thing I haven't done is marriage counseling and I can't stand the idea. I know its the right thing to try, but I feel like my self-image and self-respect has already taken too much of a beating

 

Cranston,

 

You don't want to go to therapy in order to protect your self-image and self-respect.

 

However, remind yourself of one of the things you recently said before:

 

 

This weekend, I'm going to ask another woman on a date. I do have a co-worker who will likely go with me, I just have that feeling. And I'm telling the wife that I'm going "out". That's it. I'll get dressed up nice and I'll go have a great time for once. I'll get back at 4 AM - and sure she'll be very angry maybe. But she'll also feel very insecure. She'll wonder where I've been and what the hell I'm up to. And for the rest of the week I'll be happy, I won't even think about suggesting sex or affection between. I'll do this a few times. Not only will this eliminate the boredom, but I'll liberate myself a little from the stifling BS that our relationship is mired in.

 

Now tell me how going to therapy could damage your self-image and self respect any more than CHEATING and taking another woman on a date could? Would you like being viewed as a cheater and someone who violated his marriage vows? Wouldn't that hinder your sense of self-respect?

 

If you're willing to go so low as date other women, how can therapy seem so terrible to you? Therapy actually addresses the problem between you and your wife, and doesn't make it worse like dating other women surely will.

 

I agree with the others, marriage counseling is your BEST option here.

 

 

BellaDonna

[PocoDiablo]

So my question is ... have things changed, gotten better? If so, what have you tried? Any news/results?