Is it just me or is this messed up?

[nsbguy32169]

Damn, I didn't even think about it like that... but then again, that e-mail is something I would write if I were in his shoes... and then there'd be fighting

[SlipperySammy]

Shy soul I think you make great points, my only defense to them is this has been a very long and ongoing issue and please note *In the begginning I was VERY subtle, loving, and caring....but it did nothing...I was forced to slowly become more blunt and less loving to try and see some results. I think if you look at this as they way I first tried dealing with this issue you are completely rigth, but I tried the caring an loving role for almost a year and NOTHING changed. Infact teh final straw was I went to the caring and loving extream and did basicaly what you suggested and we didn't have sex for six weeks! I think aftrer that I changed my strategy.

 

"It's going to make her more scared of opening up sexually and hurt her self esteem. At best she'll do it cause she is scared of losing you, and then she won't be enjoying it cause she'll feel forced into it. And ultimately you would feel guilty as well. "

 

*I agree with this, but like I said I tried the other route for almost a year and nothing changed so I was forced to try somthing different.

 

I migth even argue that at this point I am not even trying to change any thing any more...mabye it is to late and all I am doing is explaining why I feel the way I do. She told me she wanted specifics.

 

 

Think about the contraceptive example...think about the message it sends that I always have to buy the concentrecotive, and she will NEVER bring it up or put any effort into it. If I didn't buy it it wouldn't get bought or even mentioned. Somthing as little as "hey we should buy that stuff." would go miles in this situation. That screams at me that she could care less and either sex isn't even on her mind in any way shape or form ... or is it and she is avoiding it or somthing...i don't know.

 

In other terms I have take inititive buying conctraceptive, I have to find time for us to make love, I have to initiate love making, I have to every thing....and of I don't it wont' happen or get brought up...think about the message that sends me.

[SlipperySammy]

Shy soul, I reqally appreciate you posts and perceptive, what do you specificaly suggest I do in the situation? Do you have nay examples?

[SlipperySammy]

That's not here. It isn't fair to her to expect her to be that fantasy girl. Love her for who she is, not what you want her to be.

 

Shy soul my argument is that I am not asking her to be a fantasy girl in the terms of any thing out of the ordinary, I'm not asking her to be soem sort of porn star, or do S&M or somthing...I am asking for a relativly normal sex life.

 

What guy tells himself that he watns to marry a girl that doesn't even think about sex, and when they do have sex just lays there like a pillow. You don't htink I ask my self all the time if I am beign to demanding...or hard to satisfy? I feel guilty. But in the end I don't think I am asking for much. Looking for passion and reciprocity are normal and I shouldn't feel guilty for it.

 

As for her your claim that is how she is and I shouldn't ask her to change. I can respect that but on the other hand what if I was alway leaving crap laying around and I was really messy and it always bugged her and she treid to to get me to be cleaner in general could I say "no" "that is who I am don't change me" I don't know if that is the best analogy I just imagine that if some how she looks into her self and we talk enough she could come to terms with her sexuality and make some improvements. As for your argument that my email is not productive you migth be rigth...but at this point I don't know what else to do.

[RayKay]

That's not here. It isn't fair to her to expect her to be that fantasy girl. Love her for who she is, not what you want her to be.

 

Shy soul my argument is that I am not asking her to be a fantasy girl in the terms of any thing out of the ordinary, I'm not asking her to be soem sort of porn star, or do S&M or somthing...I am asking for a relativly normal sex life.

 

What guy tells himself that he watns to marry a girl that doesn't even think about sex, and when they do have sex just lays there like a pillow. You don't htink I ask my self all the time if I am beign to demanding...or hard to satisfy? I feel guilty. But in the end I don't think I am asking for much. Looking for passion and reciprocity are normal and I shouldn't feel guilty for it.

 

As for her your claim that is how she is and I shouldn't ask her to change. I can respect that but on the other hand what if I was alway leaving crap laying around and I was really messy and it always bugged her and she treid to to get me to be cleaner in general could I say "no" "that is who I am don't change me" I don't know if that is the best analogy I just imagine that if some how she looks into her self and we talk enough she could come to terms with her sexuality and make some improvements. As for your argument that my email is not productive you migth be rigth...but at this point I don't know what else to do.

 

I agree completely with you Sammy.

 

This situation has gone far beyond "if you love her enough you'll stay" or to "be happy with other forms of love".

 

It is not just the fact she is seemingly averse to sex, it is the fact she is absolutely resilient against any kind of discussion, any kind if help.

 

Having this problem, is not unlike if you two were having a problem in another area - like over how interfering your mother was or something. In that case too, it would be part of the commitment of BOTH people to work through that together and find solutions. The answer would not be "well just accept your mother in laws interfering even as it destroys the relationship because you love her daughter" because NO, not addressing the situation will cause the very thing you don't want to happen to happen - the dissolution of the relationship as resentment builds, and interfering continues. Just because the issue is sex, does not make it ANY less important then any other area of your relationship. It's no longer just a matter of mismatched libido's - it is a breakdown in communication, it is a lack of care about the issue, it is a complete dissolution of intimacy. Sure, if she shows you she loves you by baking you cookies, great, but that does not make up for your need to feel loved, cherished, and feel intimate and close with the person you LOVE. And you should NOT feel guilty for that.

 

Sure the email may not work, but that would not really be surprising to you at this point, would it? You have tried the patient, loving, understanding route, you have tried the honest talks, the sharing ideas, it's not like this is out of the blue. Sometimes you get to point you need to put it all out there, as blunt as it may be, when nothing else has worked, and she seems to not realize how IMPORTANT this issue.

 

Maybe you have resolved that this might be near the final straw, I sure would not blame you, but you should NOT feel guilty for feeling rejected and lost at this point, for over two years now this has been going on, I would say you HAVE given it everything by this point..I don't blame you. And I honestly DON'T think things are going to change if they have not already.

[ShySoul]

*I agree with this, but like I said I tried the other route for almost a year and nothing changed so I was forced to try somthing different.

 

And she hasn't responded to the new way either. So you are missing something. And what I think that is is seeing who she is and why she is like this. In all your posts the focus is constantly on you. You have needs and she isn't fulfilling them. You want her to change. You feel rejected. You feel as if she doesn't love you. You are entilted to your feelings. But you don't seem to be focused on her feelings. You say you've tried to be subtle, loving, and caring. How did you do this? Did you actually take the time to create her ultimate fantasy experience? Did you tell her how sexy she is, make her feel like a queen even when she just woke up? I'm really curious to this, have you talked about her sexual past or her beliefs on the topic? What was she taught growing up? I haven't seen you post on that, and that could be a big reason why she is as she is.

 

Also, it could be that she has a very low sex drive, in which case there is nothing to solve. Everything you are saying must seem foreign to her, of course she isn't trying cause she doesn't understand what you are getting at.

 

I'm seeing two likely scenarios. One, it has to do with her past, something in it that makes her very reluctant to do as you suggest. I can't say what it is or help you figure it out, you have to look at her and put yourself in her shoes to figure that out. You know her best, but your needs aside and honestly figure out why she is like this. If you can find the problem and work it out with her, that could open up possiblities. Or two, she doesn't have the kind of sex drive that you desire in a women. In which case, trying to convince her to change is pointless. I believe that when you love someone, you love them wholly. You accept that there are things about them that doesn't match the fantasy image you sought after, but you love them still and don't let it ruin things.

 

Look at the whole of the relationship. Are there other issues that are causing problems, and this only one small bit that is being magnified because of other issues. Is it really this sex issue, or is it really about larger issues of compatibility in the other facets of the relationship? But if everything else if great, do you want to end the relationship over this? Are you going to be able to accept her as she is, and realize that the attention and feeling desired that you crave can come from other means then her initiating sex?

 

I migth even argue that at this point I am not even trying to change any thing any more...mabye it is to late and all I am doing is explaining why I feel the way I do.

 

Yes... but why does she feel the way she does? If you can answer that, then you can get to the root of the issue.

 

Think about the contraceptive example...think about the message it sends that I always have to buy the concentrecotive, and she will NEVER bring it up or put any effort into it

 

Sorry, I'm just not seeing this. And I talked this over with a women who also was also puzzeled by this part. If I want a sign that my girl loves me and wants me, I can think of plenty of better ways that she can show it. I'll pay attention to her words, does she say she loves me? Does she say sweet and romantic things to be? I'll tell from the sound of her voice or the look in her eyes. And it is entirely possible that she feels scared about buying that stuff. I've never been in the position where I would have to do this, but being shy and private I don't exactly relish the idea of sticking a pack of condoms in my cart and having them checked out. As uncomfortable with sex as she is, asking her to do that must seem like her that you are asking her to climb Mt. Everst or get in a cage with a bunch of hungry lions.

 

In other terms I have take inititive buying conctraceptive, I have to find time for us to make love, I have to initiate love making, I have to every thing....and of I don't it wont' happen or get brought up...think about the message that sends me.

 

So in the bedroom you have to be in charge. Some girls like that. And we now she isn't comfortable with sex for some reason. So figure out why. And outside the bedroom, do you know she loves you? Does she saw it and show it in ways that you aren't seeing because you are so focused on whats happening in the bedroom?

 

Shy soul my argument is that I am not asking her to be a fantasy girl in the terms of any thing out of the ordinary, I'm not asking her to be soem sort of porn star, or do S&M or somthing...I am asking for a relativly normal sex life.

 

Normal is a pretty subjective term. What one person considers normal another might not. For instance, you think its normal that a girl goes out and buys contraceptives, she clearly doesn't. I'm not saying you are asking her to be a porn star, but you are asking her to do things she is not comfortable with doing. And you act like something is wrong with her because she doesn't. You are wrapped up in what you want, and while you should be thinking of yourself to some regards, you don't seem to be very concerned with how she is feeling.

 

What guy tells himself that he watns to marry a girl that doesn't even think about sex, and when they do have sex just lays there like a pillow

 

A guy who loves that girl and everything else about her so much that they want to spend their lives with her. A guy who sees that love and expressing your devotion to one another goes beyond the bedroom.

 

Perhaps its a sign of deep rooted personal issues she has unresolved? And until she resolves them, she won't be able to enjoy the expereince. Perhaps she now feels pressure to perform, and the stress of trying to do things she isn't comfortable with and stuff that scares her, makes it impossible to lose yourself in the moment? Perhaps she finds other things in the relationship unfilling and can't muster up the excitement? I'm just throwing out suggestions. You have to look at who the girl is and figure out what best fits her.

 

It is not just the fact she is seemingly averse to sex, it is the fact she is absolutely resilient against any kind of discussion, any kind if help.

 

From what I have read the discussions have basically consisted of Sam saying that he is unhappy and suggesting ways she can improve. I don't recall much talk of why she feels this way, what her sexual history is, how she was raised, etc.

[SlipperySammy]

Shy Soul I appreciate you response and some things you say are correct but soem are off.

 

First off,

 

You say you've tried to be subtle, loving, and caring. How did you do this? Did you actually take the time to create her ultimate fantasy experience? Did you tell her how sexy she is, make her feel like a queen even when she just woke up? I'm really curious to this, have you talked about her sexual past or her beliefs on the topic? What was she taught growing up? I haven't seen you post on that, and that could be a big reason why she is as she is.

 

The answer is yes to every question above. I love her with all my heart and am attracted to her and treat her like a queen all the time and even when she just wakes up. Please note according to her own admission she has no fantasy experiece, and I have asked and asked so that I could recreat one if she did. I even posted about how I tried to play a game were we would both tell each other things we would liek the other to do or or fantasies and and what otehr would liek etc...She refused to play and chaged subject! I am not perfect but in this department I like to think I treat her pretty good. (I don't know I don't want to sound like I am awsome or somthing becasue I am sure I have flaws just like any one but to answer your questions yes.) I love her and have tried every thing, I don't think you are giving me enough credit I am not dumb and have tackled this issue many ways and looked at it from many persectives. Many of the things you mention I have thought about and questioned if they are true (that is why I am here) but in the end I just try my best educated way to fix the problem.

[SlipperySammy]

You also say...

 

 

"A guy who loves that girl and everything else about her so much that they want to spend their lives with her. A guy who sees that love and expressing your devotion to one another goes beyond the bedroom. "

 

I think this is where you are wrong. She is not my mother or my sister so to say it goes beyond the bedroom may be true but the bedroom must be there to go beyond. According to Michele Davis author of 'The Sex Starved Marriege sex is essential to any relationship, and men experiece love through sex...she also explains situations very simialr to mine and says that the sex life needs to be boosted for the relationship to work.

 

Also Dr. John Gray author of 'Mars and Venus in the Bedroom' talks extensivly about how men need sex to feel loved and that sex is an important aspect of feeling loved for men in thier relationships.

 

Basicaly sex is like an important piece of a car and a car is the relationship. For example a carborator migh not be the most important part of a car but with out a carborrator the car will not run.

 

*I also think you are thinking way to much into my contracetive example. It isn't that I need her to buy contraceptives for me to feel loved...it would have been equally effective for her to mention , "hey we are out of that stuff we should get some."

 

Do you see how this just sends a messsage that she is thinking about sex and has some interest in it? It is also just a small thing among many...many small subtle messages that sex is not importatn to her and that she isn't interested.

 

 

And to also answer one of your question YES she shows me she loves me in many other ways! That is why this is so hard. She initiates a back rub all the time, lots of non-sexual touching and good deeds and caring acts. She is VERY loving in this department she is very sweet and kind and fun...why do you think I am still with her this long...I lover her dearly!!!!

As soon as it comes to sexual contact every thing gets bad. She will literly rub me while I layy in bed for hours...but her hand will NOT touch my penis or sexual places her rubs are strictly non-sexual. I have explained how much I would liek it if she woudl just drift a little south and rub or touch me in a sexual manner but she will not! Why?...I have no idea! Her hand will navigate around those areas and just keep rubbing...it makes no sense espeially after all the figthing and all the explaining that it would take much just to devaite your hand two inches and touch me sexually.

 

I don't know

 

thanks for responding I have nothing else to say now I'll be back later.

 

[dr_skier]

I've been having similar - but to less of a degree problems with my girlfriend sammy, and I've also seen the progression of this by reading all your threads. I'd love an update.

[ShySoul]

Also Dr. John Gray author of 'Mars and Venus in the Bedroom' talks extensivly about how men need sex to feel loved and that sex is an important aspect of feeling loved for men in thier relationships.

 

John Gray couldn't keep his own marriage together and had to fake his degree. Do some research and you'll see its true. So don't take what he says seriously.

 

She will literly rub me while I layy in bed for hours...but her hand will NOT touch my penis or sexual places her rubs are strictly non-sexual.

 

The whole body can be a sexual zone. Light touches and carresses along your back, on the side... all can be very erotic. Sexual pleasure is not just concentrated in the penis.

 

Yes, sex is an important part. But its not the only part. If you work with a person and accept and love them as they are, then things will be good.