My fiancee of 2 years left me yesterday.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Hope - I just started to pay attention to how freaky your dancing skeleton really is...lol

 

Another thing that I thought of...Last night when I was at an appointment with a therapist, she asked me what I thought were my exes good qualities. She asked me why it was so important that I stay with her. The list was short, but the things I said were really important to me. I guess part of my problem with letting go is that I fear I won't ever find someone else with the same good qualities. Part of reason why I felt I should keep going back was because I felt I should just accept the bad with the good, because I may never find the good again in anyone else - ever.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Zcloud,

 

You are definitely not doing a disservice to anyone on this board by posting. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we want to hear everything from you.

 

I guess when I read your post, I felt like maybe I shouldn't have told my ex how I felt for the sake of being able to have good times with her. However, I know in my heart that I cannot be truly happy with her if this is how it's going to be. If she really cares this little about me, who knows how far she will go in hurting me. She has been declaring very strongly that she wants a committed relationship with me to work out. However, that cannot happen if she gets angry, rude, and shuts up when I tell her my emotional needs. How many times can I handle her hanging up on me when her family comes around? How many times will I be able to take when it's one day I love you, I hate you the next? Should I just keep this bottled up for the sake of keeping her in my life and happy? With her, she will never just bring it up on her own. I always bring it up, and I always get shot in the heart for doing it.

 

For any long term relationship, especially this one where marriage was in sight, it's a formula for utter disaster.

[NewPhillyGuy]

I found this on a website. This is the cycle of emotional abuse.

 

Phase I - TENSION BUILDING - communication breakdown, victim feels needs to please abuser

 

Phase II - INCIDENT - Verbal and emotional abuse, anger, blaming, arguing, intimadation

 

Phase III - RECONCILIATION - abuser apologizes, gives excuses, blames victim, denise abuse occurred, says it wasn't as bad as victim claimed

 

Phase IV - CALM - incident is "forgotten"

 

When I read this, it scared me so much, because this is EXACTLY how it felt like our argument would flow. I feel like crying...

 

In Phase I, she would get very angry with me and stop talking to me. I would regret even bringing up whatever started this, and I would try to change the subject or do anything else to make her happy.

 

In Phase 2, no matter what I said, she would just continue to steam roll me and just get more and more mad. I would sometimes cry and just keep saying I loved her, but it just made her more and more mad the more I said it. She would mostly yell, but sometimes call her mother and bash me, throw things, and sometimes shove me around. She would also, which is not mentioned, try to stop all communication and just allow me to remain upset.

 

In Phase 3, she would apologize sometimes, but rarely. For the most part, she would just say I made her angry or that I should "get over it."

 

In Phase 4, things would be normal. If I ever brought up what happened, she would outright deny it.

[Hope75]

The skeleton dances like me.

she asked me what I thought were my exes good qualities. She asked me why it was so important that I stay with her

 

 

What are they?

[NewPhillyGuy]

Her good qualities:

 

1) She always liked to spend alot of time with me. In the past, girls that I dated seemed so self-centered or just centered around their friends. She didn't avoid me if I was doing something that typically did not interest her. She always tried to take interest in my interests. For example, I would be laying under the car changing my oil, and she would just appear outside and start talking to me. She would ask me exactly how I did it. I could tell she just enjoyed being with me, and she was so happy to do it. I did the same for her. She plays a few intstruments. I'm a metal head, so as much as I don't care for classical music, I sat through tons of her concerts, just to be a smiling face of support for her. I actually learned to like some of the music. I only wanted to show my support and make her happy.

 

2) She was always so comforting and sweet when I was down. Since I have OCD and a panic condition, I get nervous really easily and talking helps out alot. Other girls I dated never really seemed to care. They just wanted to have fun. She would actually sit and listen, make me feel better, wrap her arms around me. I never had that before - ever. There was this other girl I dated in college... One time she wanted to have sex, but I suddenly got nervous and I just wanted to take my medicine and lay down. I had promised earlier that we were going to that night though. When I told her I didn't want to, she threw my bottle of antidepressants at me and slammed the door to my room on her way out.

 

3) She's very in touch with her feelings like me and a hopeless romantic. Most girls I've dated were like that initially, but got really cold into the relationship. It seemed like the sweeter and nicer I got, the more they disliked me. Sarah was just like me in that sense. She ate up every poem and love letter I wrote, and I got a box of them from her in return. We had a collection of stuffed animals from each other. We were that couple that made single people sick, but that's how we were and we loved each other for it. We had a CD of "our" songs, and would slow dance to them and watch the tears rolls in each other because we were so in love. I never felt that I really connected so deeply on an emotional level with any other girl.

 

That's basically what I thought of when the therapist asked. At the time, I felt like maybe I could find the same elsewhere. Sometimes, I fear that I never will again....

 

This is why all of this hurts so damn much. I know the person she is capable of being, but there are so many times when I've seen her become a monster.

[Hope75]

While these are nice qualities, they are not particularly unique ones and they do not balance out the yelling at you, hitting you, screaming and upsetting you and the neighbors, and walking out on you. What did those things do for your OCD/anxiety?

 

I suspect if you give yourself the chance you will be able to meet someone who will have all of those qualities and who will also always take your feelings into consideration and who will listen to you, accept responsiblility for her part in the relationship and her faults, and want to really work at making a relationship work, instead of jumping on the defense and attacking you all the time.

 

Be patient, she's out there, just not Sarah.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Actually, the way that she acted made my anxiety a HELL of alot worse. Although I am depressed and going through the heartbreak now, I have noticed that my anxiety levels are much lower. I am definitely not as easily stirred up than I was when living with her. The OCD is also not nearly as bad. I can remember times when I would be ok for a few days, but after an argument with her, I would start checking locks and getting nervous again.

 

I read a book about OCD not too long ago, and it said that stressful situations will trigger the disorder make the symptoms appear in much greater force.

[Hope75]

I read a book about OCD not too long ago, and it said that stressful situations will trigger the disorder make the symptoms appear in much greater force.

 

I've read this as well, instability and high stress environments can perpetuate OCD.

 

Hopefully when the month of NC is over she will leave you alone and if not, hopefully you will be strong enough to tell her that you are through.

[NewPhillyGuy]

So she called me for the FIFTH time today around 8pm. I was in a bookstore and saw it was her cell number. I decided I was going to pick up this time and see what she wanted. She was balling uncontrollably. I asked her what was wrong, and she's like, "I have no friends." I said what are you talking about? She said, "I want to go to a movie, but have no one to go with." I'm thinking she obviously was not meaning to ask me to movie, because I live 80 miles from her now. Maybe she was? I dunno? Anyway, I tried to be nice and said well who can you call. She then says I sound irritated and sorry for bothering me and hangs up. Ok, so I feel bad and I know this is stupid, so I call her back. She does not pick up, so I leave a message saying if she needs to talk that's fine, but to stop calling me and hanging up. I'm tired of it already! In 5 minutes, she calls back and I tell her with alot of frustation "If you need to talk, stop hanging up the damn phone! We either talk or don't talk!" She then asks what I am doing, and I remind her that I'm up at my old college with some friends. She says oh she forgot. I know for a fact she did not forget, because when I told her I was visiting some friends who are girls, she left me a msg saying she hopes I don't want anyone else. She then asks me what store I'm in. I tell her Borders, and she asks who I am with. I tell her who, and then she gets upset all of a sudden and says, "I'm so sorry for bothering you. I should have never called. You told me not to." She started crying louder, and hung up.

 

I did not call her back. I said to hell with it. What the heck is this woman doing?

[Hope75]

She is totally unstable, but now you are feeding into it by not following through with your NC and taking the time and space that you need.

 

Stop answering her calls. Let her work this out for herself and you take care of yourself.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Hope,

 

I know, I know, I know. I don't freaking understand why she can't just leave me alone. I know I shouldn't have picked up, but I figured she was probably freaking out or something, and I felt like I should be there for her.

 

I didn't talk about our problems, the relationship, or anything. I really think she was just trying to test me and see what I would do. I'm glad that I just stopped calling her back. She hasn't called me back since 8 last night. I'm sure that she will though at some point...

 

I was feeling pretty ok last night and for the part of this morning, I was ok. Now, I just feel like crap, just so depressed and everything. I feel like I don't want to do anything with myself, just kind of vegging around and waiting for something good to happen to me.

[Hope75]

NPG,

 

I don't mean to be harsh with you, but you seem really unhappy and it seems every time you talk with her it just gets worse, and since you gave her this email expressing to her that you'd like some space and are going to take it, it seems the best thing for you to do is to show her that when you say something you mean it and that, at least for a little while, she needs to depend on other people, or work her problems out for herself.

 

If you are guilted into picking up the phone every time she calls you 10 times in a day (when you asked for space!) you will end up resenting her and nothing good will come of that, don't you agree?

 

It is hard to do, but maybe your best bet is to shut off your phone if she calls again. You asked for this space for a reason. If she can't give it to you, you can take it by ignoring her advances. Show her that you mean what you say and are not going to be walked over by her anymore.

[NewPhillyGuy]

I agree. She obviously has no concern for my feelings. It just absolutely blows my mind. This is a person that I have been with for 3 years. We were engaged and lived together. I can't believe she's just so harsh and so messed up in her head. I can't believe that all of that time means absolutely nothing to her. It's just all a wash.

 

She wants me to come see her tonight, so we can go out to dinner and just "talk about our problems." I told her no freaking way, and she got all mad. I said if we can't even have a phone conversation without her getting mad and hanging up, there's no way I'm going to see her. She told me that all I want to do is talk about our problems. She says that the reason why we can't have a good relationship is because all I want to do is talk about the problems. It's so not true! But we do have problems, and if there's any chance, we need to be able to talk about them! The truth is that I probably bring them up alot, but whenever I do, she denies whatever is bothering me, refuses to talk about it, and just hangs up. It's just like in the cycle of emotional abuse I posted about earlier...That's why nothing gets resolved and I bring it up again because I am still hurting. She's in denial about everything, and just wants me to do whatever she wants when she wants! It's like no I don't care about how you feel, so let's go to dinner tonight and talk it over!? W-T-F!

 

She's trying to guilt me into thinking I'm the uncaring person who just wants to make her feel bad all the time. How selfish is that? She has no remorse for the things she has said and done to me. It's just all about her. She doesn't want to feel any remorse for how she has treated me. I told her I can't have a relationship with someone who thinks it's ok to mess with people's feelings and just move on.

[Hope75]

It's really sad. You are right that she seems to just want to smooth things over and not deal with the real issue (which is her instablility and lack of concern for your feelings) and pretend like nothing happened, and yet, she is still not respecting the fact that you 1. asked for space and not to be contacted, 2. wish to talk about the reasons you are apart, a step towards considering working things out.

 

She still isn't accepting ANY responsibility for anything that she has done that led to this breakup...now my question to you is, did you answer your phone when she called? How did you know that she wanted to meet you tonight? You know if you tell her something like you don't want contact for a month, and then you completely go back on it by talking to her every day since you told her that, she is never going to respect you and think that you mean what you say and follow through with it.

 

Wouldn't you agree? Why should she take you seriously if you completely go back on your word?

[NewPhillyGuy]

The way I feel right now is that I really just don't care anymore. I don't care if she calls me a million times a day or none at all. I don't care if she doesn't email me anymore. I don't care if she wants to work things out or forget about me completely. You know how the hardest part is thinking of your ex with someone else? I realized last night I don't care if she dates 1000 other guys. I don't give a damn if her parents hate my guts. I don't care to know the reason why all of this is happening anymore. I don't care for excuses.

 

I just want to be happy, and that's not going to happen with her. I had a great time yesterday talking to some new girls that I met. It really gave me some hope that I would find a much better person someday.

[RayKay]

Philly,

 

Sounds like you are moving forward...there will likely still be some steps back (or rather stumbles!) along the way but I think that you are moving along in the healing process. And I think you are slowly starting to realize too that she is not the only one, or even the one, in this world for you. Because as I said before, love is not abusive, or manipulative....and you are right, there are other great girls out there. Some of them you won't really "match" with, some won't turn out to be what you need, but there ARE some wonderful women out there, and there will be one of them who just exceeds any of your expectations.

 

Best of luck

[NewPhillyGuy]

Hi Everyone,

 

I wanted to let you guys know about a decision I have made, and I hope that I can count on everyone for their continued support and advice. You guys have been posting like crazy to me for the past month with your support, and I think everyone of you is awesome. I don't know where I would be without this site.

 

As everyone knows, I've been going back and forth SO MUCH on this. I keep going back because I just want to be with her. The pattern reflects what I really feel...I want to try and see if this will work. I guess I'm just not sure how to do it. We are just taking things slow, and that's about all I know right now.

 

Some of the hard parts are:

 

-I am very insecure right now, and I need to deal with that.

 

-Her moods are very unstable. However, she's on the meds for bipolar, and found a therapist. After a few appointments herself, we're supposed to start couples counseling. We're taking it slow. We're keeping conversation to a minimum and trying to keep our emotions out of them.

 

-I feel like she's not giving me the attention and reassurance I need. I'm not sure how to say it to her. I'm afraid if I don't say enough, she'll never know. If I say too much, maybe I will scare her off.

 

-The other problem is that with her mood swings, if I tell her how her actions hurt me, she gets angry and pulls back. She doesn't see it that I'm just trying to make things better. She takes everything as a personal attack.

 

Any advice?

[zcloud]

If you want to keep her:

 

All contact should be pleasant - but minimize.

Listen, don't talk.

Talk to anyone, everyone else about your feelings, don't talk to her she can't handle it. Actions speak louder than words, cuddle, etc. whatever physical contact she allows. Post your thoughts here instead, some of us are past the pain and are either moving on or engaging in our strategy...

Until the relationship stablizes, try to make every interaction seem like Disneyland - it's a fantasy. You want this person to realize they'd rather not live without you; not that there is a large barrel of issues to slog through.

Leave all the baggage for another time, when you're both past it and you

can look back and laugh or discuss if absolutely necessary. Avoid this for now. Be there but don't be too available. Let her wait a little before you return calls. Let her know you're busy and will make time, but don't bore her with your itinerarry or try to prove how busy you are.

 

I saw mine twice last week and then gave him a day or 2 of rest with a pleasant limited contact. After the first date he was excited but cautious.

After the 2nd date, he was excited but distant. I gave him space, but very lovingly. In the next few days/week I might call/ email and see how he responds. He said he loved me and missed me and talked on and on about our relationship, how it can't work, but then again maybe, yadda, yadda, yadda... I was drunk and doing my best to ignore or change the subject. I told him I loved him too; pretty much all I said, then I hugged and kissed him and continued as the evening progressed with the good stuff.

You have to rebuild this person's trust; that things will be different - that you are stable and constant as the northern star. They will flake out!expect it; especially if they are young (immature), bi-polar,

or have the anger issue. This will only change with time in a loving relationship (or therapy and meds), this needs to be built over the next 6 months, not in 2 days.

-Zcloud

[zcloud]

I feel like she's not giving me the attention and reassurance I need. I'm not sure how to say it to her. I'm afraid if I don't say enough, she'll never know. If I say too much, maybe I will scare her off.

 

Oops forgot to comment on this. This person cannot and will not be able to give you much of anything right now. If she says she loves you and is willing to do the counseling it's a positive sign. If she suddenly flakes out and decides she's not ready for couples counseling or that she is unsure of her feelings for you, do NOT panic; expect this. You are the adult (somebody has to be). Just continue unwavering in your plan. Your re-assurance must come from yourself or another source, it can't be from her; she can barely handle herself. Also, if you're starting to feel like a dormat, change your perspective.... it's not that you can't secretly move on (let go) in your mind and explore other options, other women, another plan. But when dealing with her, you must be consistant. If she decides in 6-8 months that you're the one for her and by this time you've had enough and are past it - let her down gently... remain friends. Only you can limit yourself - other people can only make suggestions...

[Hope75]

NPG,

 

After all you have said about this girl and how she has been selfish, violent and makes your anxiety go through the roof, it is beyond me why you would even consider giving her another chance.

 

She's already shown you that she isn't willing to accept responsibility for her actions nor is she willing to work towards making this a 50/50 relationship.

 

At this point I fear you are a glutton for punishment.

[novaseeker]

If you want to move forward, you will have to go to school on bipolar disorder, in terms of learning what it is, how to manage it, what will always be present, how to deal with it and the like. There are many fine books about it available in bookstores ... I would recommend perusing reviews of them at link removed and then picking up a few of them and reading them through. Your gf's bi-polar disorder will never go away. It can be managed, if she is willing to do it, but understanding what it is and how to deal with it from the SO's perspective would be a vital foundation for any relationship with someone who has bi-polar or any other recognized mental disorder.

[NewPhillyGuy]

For the past few days, things have been going ok.

 

We have been keeping phone communication to a minimum, maybe once or twice a day for a few minutes only. She typically emails me in the morning and I send one back. Our conversations have been mostly about what's going on with us, daily stuff, etc. I think that's the best thing for us right now, but I do really miss the more intimate conversations we used to have.

 

Another thing that's happening is that I am holding back on my emotions. I notice that I just don't feel like saying I love you as much. Sometimes, when she says it, it almost feels like she's huring me, because I think how could you say this and have done the things you did. I obviously do not bring this up in conversation. I just tell her it's hard for me to get all into it at times, and that she needs to understand. She said that she does.

[ebber]

Many of the things you have said remind me of my last relationship - my ex would never say he was sorry no matter how badly he treated me; everything was always about him.

What I wanted to tell you was that there is hope to move on with someone else, instead of trying to change (suppressing your emotions, changing how you communicate). I was afraid of being alone but it was the best thing for me, and now I've met someone who is so different. He doesn't freak out about little things, I can talk to him, he's affectionate - basically he is the opposite of my ex.

Good luck to you and I'm sure that, in the end, you will be happy

[NewPhillyGuy]

Thanks for your encouragement, Ebber.

[Theartofforgetting]

hey. YOu think you got it bad? I just found out my x was an Alien. Read my post, its crazy. anyways....i'm not the one to speak here cuz i'm in your situation. I think of all the good things my x and I had and try to erase the bad things. but you know what? Understand the fact that if you went back with her, you're going to go through all the screaming and hitting. DO YOU WANT THAT? DO YOU REALLY WANT SOMEONE SCREAMING AT YOU A LOT? My girl never screamed at me, but she always cried and needed a lot of attention which got annoying. I can't get over her cuz shes hot and she treated me really good, but she lies. I can't be with a person who lies, and you can't be with a person who yells all day. Dude there are many girls out there and we're still young. The first few days or weeks are tuff...i know.....but train your mind to get over it. Train your mind that you don't deserve it. That your better than her and you deserve someone who will treat you nice. RIGHT NOW i'm thinking that I will never find a girl as hot and nice ever again, but things come unexpectedly. GO WORK OUT. IT FEELS GOOD>