What does marriage mean to you?

[Day_Walker]

My personal feeling is that people have the wrong perception about marriage, they seem to hold this ideal in their head that two people when they love eachother stay together forever. Should the perception of marriage change or should we continue to think that marriage lasts forever?

I dont believe that marriage has to last forever because marriage today has a different context than when the instituation was created.

 

What are your personal feelings on the institution of marriage and the idea that it has to last forever?

[RayKay]

I don't think it *has* to last forever, but I do think that should be the *intention*.

 

I think the problem is not that too many people have an ideal of it lasting forever - as I see the opposite honestly with the rise of "starter marriages" and people rushing into it fast - what I do have a problem with is the perception people have that "love is all you need" and that marriage is a lifelong honeymoon. I think many also look to marriage for security - failing to realize that security comes from within ourselves and the relationship itself (married or not).

 

There are so many considerations people fail to think about, as they believe love and marriage will rectify everything. People do not analyze their true compatibility in all arenas, nor do they find out their goals for the marriage, or ensure they share similar values. They do not lay out how the finances will be shared, whether children will be a part of it, and how will those children be raised. They neglect to think of the nitty gritty of marriage, of what happens when times are tough, and instead present themselves an ideal of what it *should be like*. When it does not meet their idealistic image, often I think people choose to run away in pursuit of their idealistic relationship again, rather than taking a look at what they have, and how to address the issues.

 

More people should remember that if you are having problems now, they will not be solved by a ring.

 

I think marriage is potentially great for those who realize it is more than a wedding and a fairytale and know it is a lifelong commitment with great and tough times. I think it can be a true partnership between two aware and independent individuals, with lots of room for growth, love and happiness.

 

So in sum, I do think it *ideally* with right circumstances and people should last "forever". Going into something believing it should end, takes away from the intent I believe and dooms it from the start. But knowing it should last forever, should also ensure people are very aware of what challenges may present themselves, and know themselves as individuals and a couple well enough to know how those challenges will be met. And there should be plenty of love, respect, honesty and compassion, as well as communication, to create a very healthy partnership which enhances their lives.

[lillady898]

I think it varies for everyone... Different couples expect different things from any relationship. I think that if people don't know for sure they will be together forever, they shouldn't enter marriage together and should remain as exclusive and unmarried as they want to be. If they do get married anyways, which in the end it is their decision, I think it's wrong for them to say anything in their vows to the extent of "until death do us part."

 

I personally would never marry someone who didn't intend on in the relationship being forever and will never get a divorce unless the relationship turned abusive towards me or the kids (assuming there would be kids in the picture). I think divorce is a way of saying, "I lied, I don't want to be with you until death do us part!"

 

I agree though, with the fact that people get married for all the wrong reason thinking it will solve their problems and not analyzing their compatability enough. And that where things become wrong altogether. I just don't like the fact of people so easily saying these vows and not meaning them.

[Day_Walker]

I think the problem is not that too many people have an ideal of it lasting forever - as I see the opposite honestly with the rise of "starter marriages" and people rushing into it fast

 

It seems to me that people get in over their heads when it comes to these starter marriages. I wouldnt be surprised if the younger age demographic had a high rate of divorce than the older demographics but I feel that its attributed to other things. It does seem that these people hold the ideal of marriage in their head while they are in a relationship that has no chance of lasting and yet they get married anyway. Whether it wont work out because of age, maturity, infidelity, personal issues or whatever else. It seems to me that its that impulse that people get when they are in a relationship for a long time and the next natural progression of the relationship is marriage.

 

At one point logic has to come into play and when you see the divorce rates upwards of 50% in the United States you have to realize that its a 50/50 shot. There are some people out there who are going to make better decisions that others concerning the person they marry and its possible that their relationship will last. But why does it have to last, why this notion of if two people love eachother do they have to be together forever?

[Day_Walker]

I think divorce is a way of saying, "I lied, I don't want to be with you until death do us part!"

 

I agree that is exaclty what divorce is saying but what does it have to be till death do us part? You stated that you will only get a divorce if there is abuse but according to your statement above you are still lying when you said "till death do us part". I'm not trying to justify abuse but why draw the line there with what is acceptable and what isnt?

[DN]

I think divorce is a way of saying, "I lied, I don't want to be with you until death do us part!"

 

I agree that is exaclty what divorce is saying but what does it have to be till death do us part? You stated that you will only get a divorce if there is abuse but according to your statement above you are still lying when you said "till death do us part". I'm not trying to justify abuse but why draw the line there with what is acceptable and what isnt?

 

I think it is implicit in the marriage vows that they are reciprocal and contingent on both sides keeping them. If one partner breaks a vow, particularly in an egregious way, then the other partner can then feel free to withdraw theirs. Abuse contravenes the vow 'to love and to cherish' - physically or mentally abusing someone is certainly not cherishing them.

 

When I got married, I certainly thought it was supposed to be forever- so far it has been.

[BellaDonna]

I think marriage, in it's ideal form is supposed to last "forever".

 

I agree that when the vows are broken (i.e. by abuse, cheating, neglect) then it is much easier to also break "till death do us part" and get a divorce.

 

Society is faced with an epidemic of serial monogamy, despite that, when I got married, I did so with the intention of being with my husband forever.

[Day_Walker]

I think it is implicit in the marriage vows that they are reciprocal and contingent on both sides keeping them. If one partner breaks a vow, particularly in an egregious way, then the other partner can then feel free to withdraw theirs. Abuse contravenes the vow 'to love and to cherish' - physically or mentally abusing someone is certainly not cherishing them.

 

When I got married, I certainly thought it was supposed to be forever- so far it has been.

 

I like the last line of your quote how you say that it was supposed to be forever. With saying that you seem to be awknowledging that in the best case scenario it will last forever but its not necessary and sufficient.

[DN]

I mean that I can control my own actions but not those of my wife. I have no reason to suppose that she is unhappy, far from it, but no one can predict what the future holds. What I am saying is that we have so far managed to keep our vows for thirty years, I hope and trust we shall be able to continue to do so for the rest of our lives.

[shes2smart]

Traditionally marriage was a business arrangement aimed at preserving the wealth of families. It's only been in the last couple hundred years that marrying for love has become the norm in Western culture.

 

Lifespans were shorter when "til death do us part" first came into usage. "Til death do us part" wound up being 5-7 years on average. People used to die a lot sooner before the advent of antibiotics, better awareness of diet (when I was growing up, red meat was considered to be good for you), better understanding of and medications for diseases (what used to be a disease that could kill you can now be managed or cured with medication...antibiotics were the biggie, but there are many others), people's jobs were more dangerous (fewer or no safety regulations, unawareness of various risks) and let's not forget how common it was for women to die in childbirth in the past. In the upper classes marriages were arranged and it was commonplace for the parties to take lover(s) on the side.

 

Peter McWilliams goes into the history of marriage in some detail in "Love 101: To Love Oneself Is The Beginning Of A Lifelong Romance." The above is a very, very brief summary of that section of the book. It was an eye-opening read for me and made me see how we have unreasonable expectations for marriage.

 

That being said, I did not go into my marriage thinking "it's good for now." If I felt that way, I wouldn't have bothered getting married. I went into it with the intent that it would be a lifelong commitment, and I went into it with someone who also approached it that way.

 

If you're not going into marriage with the idea that it's going to be for life, and you're not prepared to do what it takes to make that happen, or you don't think your intended spouse is going to put forth that kind of effort, then you probably shouldn't get married. Life is going to throw too many curveballs at you (individually and as a couple) to allow anything less than a full commitment to survive.

 

We've been married 3 years. In that short time we've had to deal with: financial issues (unemployment), health issues (surgery, mine), mental health issues (nervous breakdown due to work, mine), ex-spouse financial issues (his ex defaulted on several loans), legal issues with his family, a job change (mine) and accompanying 150-mile move, sexual issues, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. This is stuff I've seen other couples argue and split up over. We've had very few disagreements, no screaming fights, and have gotten through all this stuff together and come out stronger...and most of the time laughing through it, or at least after the worst of it. I think it is because we both went into the relationship knowing we were both in it for the long haul.

[virtutis]

I don't agree. Marriage is till death do us part. If that feels like forever than I guess it is. Marriage was instituted for several reasons. First, for the procreation of children for God. Second, it elevated a woman's status as partner when many were concubines. Thirdly, to stop from the spread of diseases. There are more reasons but those are the most important. Truth does not change because an hour has passed or a year or a century. This concept that times are different thereforeeee the truths of ages passed don't apply to us is nonsense. That is why there are so many divorces. We have given ourselves a reason to be selfish. If the situation does not work for us we leave. Selfish. I have fallen out of love. Selfish. I can't deal with the constant nagging. Selfish. You ask why all these are selfish, because they all start with the question of me and I. When we start asking ourselves what can I do for this marriage we'll realize how much disorder and destruction we bring into another's life out of selfishness. Marriage is about a union not about me. Two become one not two stay two. There is also the subject of the children. " My children can't be happy where I'm not happy." Marriage is not about one person but about many. Marriage is sacrafice for the partner and for the children. A child needs both mother and father. How beautiful marriage would be if the husband and wife sacraficed for each other. I leave with something my mother once told me. " A marriage is like a puzzle. There's no 50-50 but in some areas 80-20, 40-60, 30-70. Just as the pieces are odd-shaped so is the union of marriage.

[Day_Walker]

This is exactly what Im talking about when I mention the Idealistic views of marriage and of what is "best". It is nonsense that an institution elevates a woman and makes them a partner, thereforeeee without marriage they are no longer equal,it doesnt seem right to me. As far as truth changing over time, truth is merely a perspective of one person or a group. It seems that you have a religious undertone in your response. Regardless of what is taught times do change and we outgrow the rules and limitations of certain instituations. If the institutions are willing to change over time then they are able to adapt otherwise they will be thrown to the side. Marriage is not a truth, it was something that was instituted as you stated earlier in your response.

 

The truth and reality of marriage is that two do not become one because they are and will always be two different people. These two people are making a conscious choice to stay together for mutual benefit. It is their choice to stay together or their choice to break up.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

I believe marriage should last until one partner dies (or natural causes of course...LOL). If you have doubts about one day getting divorced, it is better not to marry!!

[PAdreamer]

The whole point of marriage (or at least what it's SUPPOSED to mean) is that two people are making a commitment to each other for life. What's the point in getting married if not for that? I am choosing a man I love to commit myself to, mind, body, and soul forever. That is why I am marrying him. As a symbol of my commitment and love for him. I think for me, it's a sign of respect and trust. I trust him with the rest of my life. With my future. With the future of the children we'd like to have. And I respect him as my best friend and confidante.

[socalguy123]

I follow after RayKay's and shes2smart's replies. I know that life is full of surprises, and curveballs. And there's too much going on in my life, that I can't expect it'll get any easier when I finally do meet someone who wants to commit mutually with me...

 

I agree about the 1 person for life, but I'm not willing to settle for less than what I deserve. I'm also not willing to settle for someone who is not in the same frame of mind as myself. It won't be easy, but I will find the right woman... I do want kids, and I don't want to start a family at 40, but... *sigh* it's starting to look like that...

 

anyway! Yeah, what they both said!

[virtutis]

Daywalker you certainly do not understand what you read. History has shown that women were treated as lowly and as concubines. thereforeeee, women were given a new position through the institution of marriage. Truth as I have said does not change regardless of time. We have changed the meaning of truth to allow us to get away with not being responsible or with being selfish. No matter how you'd like to twist the idea to support your causes. Marriage is a mutual offering of each other's body's to each other. You give yourself to the other. The husband takes up the responsiblity to protect and honor his wife. The wife takes up the responsiblity of taking care of her husband. It is a mutual sacrafice for each other. Your twisting of the truth opens the beautifulness of marriage to be destroyed by selfishness of it's over when I no longer get nothing out of it. Hence the rise in divorce, because people no longer no what it is to be responsible for others and family. That is why we now have 60 yr. old children walking around. Religious undertones or not.

You were not left walking alone. It was I that carried you through those times.

[DN]

Daywalker you certainly do not understand what you read. History has shown that women were treated as lowly and as concubines.

 

Not always true. The ancient Celts gave women equal rights in marriage, including spelling out who took what in a divorce. The Britons who fought the Roman invaders were led by Queen Boudicca. The Egyptians had Queen Cleopatra and honoured women, as did many Nordic cultures. The fifth commandment requires you to honour your father and your mother. Many other religions deified women, and the Greeks had as many female gods as male.

[shes2smart]

Day_Walker,

 

I've been reading this thread and some of your posts elsewhere regarding marriage. I think you're trying to simplify marriage down to one of its components when it's really a multi-faceted relationship. There is certainly a business component to marriage, as you've stated. However, there is also a romantic/emotional compontent, a religious/spiritual component and a societal component.

 

Anytime we take something that has several layers like that and over-emphasise any one layer, it skews the whole picture. Ever hear that fable about 3 blindfolded men trying to describe an elephant? One described the trunk, one described a leg, and the third described the elephant's tail. All three had a portion of the truth but because of the blindfolds, none could see the whole Truth.

 

Depending on our upbringing and our experiences, we're going to put more emphasis on different aspects of marriage. That doesn't negate or eliminate the other components that we value less or choose to ignore. All those components come into play whether we want them to or not.

[BellaDonna]

shes2smart,

 

Very well stated!

 

That's all I have to say (for now anyway....)

 

 

[Day_Walker]

I agee that I am looking at one aspect of marriage in my posts, it would seem that I dont focus on thte emotional/spiritual aspect that you have mentioned. I do realize that marriage is multi-faceted but I believe that at a certain point we must make decisions that are the best for us. Now in my opinion and personal experience I will make that choice logically and not based on emotion or a spiritual influence, although I believe I am aware of these other influences they do not effect my decision because I feel they dont have my best interests at heart. Logic is the only thing that is constant and it doesnt waver, it stays consistant and it is what is best for us even if we dont realize it at that time. I believe that I can hold these different aspect of marriage or other issues in my mind but still decide which one I feel is best.