16 years relationship close to breakup?

[AshitaNoIppo]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to say but threesomes and dragging others into a conflicted situation was a horrible idea. It only complicated matters and made her feel awful. Please work on your relationship with a licensed qualified therapist, not some random dude brought into the bedroom. 

Thank for your time.

I understand trying to follow the whole situation might be complex.

The threesome was not an attempt to solve any kind of issue. We were very happy. It was just trying a new experience.

[Batya33]

12 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Thank for your time.

I understand trying to follow the whole situation might be complex.

The threesome was not an attempt to solve any kind of issue. We were very happy. It was just trying a new experience.

It’s not complex. It’s two people who are not on the same wavelength as far as how committed they are to each other. You’re making it more complicated to justify staying together and convincing her to marry you. 

[MissCanuck]

It would be foolish to push ahead with marriage when she has told you she isn't sure she loves you and also that she has doubts about marrying you.

You're not really listening to what she is saying. It's not just about her having sexual thoughts about other men. It's much more about her not wanting to take this step with you, likely because she knows that deep-down that this might not be the relationship she stays in forever. 

Please, don't proceed with more wedding planning.

[AshitaNoIppo]

16 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

It would be foolish to push ahead with marriage when she has told you she isn't sure she loves you and also that she has doubts about marrying you.

You're not really listening to what she is saying. It's not just about her having sexual thoughts about other men. It's much more about her not wanting to take this step with you, likely because she knows that deep-down that this might not be the relationship she stays in forever. 

Please, don't proceed with more wedding planning.

Thanks for your input.

I think, if she loves me as she says, it does not make sense to have doubts about marrying me after 16 years, 2 kids and a flat. Especially when she has always wanted to marry until 3 weeks ago.

So I'm wondering if she is not trying to convince herself that she still loves me because it would make her life way easier.

I would not be happy but I'm ready to end the relationship if she wants to. However I'm thinking maybe she is just stressed by the marriage, which leads her to doubt she wants to marry and ending the relationship now would be too early. Also I don't want to continue this relationship if we don't marry.

It's a difficult topic to discuss with her. She says she does not know why she doubts.

Maybe I can tell her the following "If you love me you should be happy marrying me. If you have doubts I'm thinking of two potential reasons why. Either you don't love me anymore but you are lying to yourself because it's easier or you are just very stressed by the marriage and needs to find a way to relieve or accept this stress. If you don't put effort into solving this situation I think it's likely because the first reason is the correct one. I propose to look for counselling before marrying as I think it could help to clarify our situation.".

What do you think?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, A***aNoIppo said:

 "If you love me you should be happy marrying me. 

This is referred to as emotional extortion. Please see a couples therapy for appropriate ways to navigate this. Between the threesome and the manipulation and emotional blackmail, it's making matters worse. Please get professional advice rather than mucking things up further. Please lay off the marriage and wedding pressure. It's been 16 years. 16 years. What's the big hurry and pressure now? 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is referred to as emotional extortion. Please see a couples therapy for appropriate ways to navigate this. Between the threesome and the manipulation and emotional blackmail, it's making matters worse. Please get professional advice rather than mucking things up further. Please lay off the marriage and wedding pressure. It's been 16 years. 16 years. What's the big hurry and pressure now? 

Exactly -what an awful idea to give the mother of your children an ultimatum like that.

[tattoobunnie]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:25 AM, A***aNoIppo said:

she wants to dance and I don't. She wants me to show affection in public, she wants people to see that I love her, but this makes me uncomfortable and apparently it's quite an issue for her.

She wants a different life for herself with dancing and PDA. I couldn't marry someone that also wouldn't do either of these things.

I also would never ever share my hubs with anyone else.  When she has guests over, sounds like you don't help out with the planning or cleaning, so she is stressed out.  It's not toxic; probably tired of always having to ask you to get something done.

[AshitaNoIppo]

17 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Exactly -what an awful idea to give the mother of your children an ultimatum like that.

It's not an ultimatum (or blackmail as suggested by "Wiseman2") because I'm not trying to get anything for "me" here. Just trying to understand what she feels/thinks and trying to help her find out herself so it will provide something for "us". I feel that she is lost and does not know what she wants or feels anymore. I want to help her to clarify it. If it means that she does not love me anymore, then be it. I'll accept it. If she wants to stay with me, this is ok too.

However I don't want to stay in a blurry relationship where I'm always worried that my partner does not love me anymore and may ask for a break up the next day.

I believe that given our circumstances, if she was in love with me, then she "should" be happy to marry me.
If she is not happy to marry me, then what are the reasons? I'd like to know. I definitely not want to put any pressure on her. Also I don't blame her for anything. I believe that people can love someone then not love him anymore and I tried my best to reassure her on this kind of topic.

I know I'm giving tons of information and it may be quite complex to follow but don't just read a sentence or part of a sentence without any context because I feel it leads you to misunderstanding.

I think I'd like to go for counselling because maybe I'm just unable to help her but some kind of professional could. However she does not seem to be fond of this idea. It seems like she wants to stay like this with me and keep her doubts forever even after the marriage.

Also, she does trust me and she knows I'm always doing my best to make her feel happy and safe. So if I was saying something as "If you love me you should be happy marrying me" she would just know I'm saying it as a thought and not in an aggressive way as if I was trying to control her or something like this.

[Batya33]

I would put it this way.  "I want to marry you.  You are not sure you want to marry me.  I'd really appreciate if you can share with me your doubts and concerns and if you can't or don't want to I understand.  I'm happy to stay unmarried for _____ more [month/day year] and after that if you still don't want to get married it's best if we separate and co-parent our children."

If you knew she was never going to marry you -how long would you stay?

[AshitaNoIppo]

Just now, tattoobunnie said:

She wants a different life for herself with dancing and PDA. I couldn't marry someone that also wouldn't do either of these things.

I also would never ever share my hubs with anyone else.  When she has guests over, sounds like you don't help out with the planning or cleaning, so she is stressed out.  It's not toxic; probably tired of always having to ask you to get something done.

Thank actually what you say is very accurate. Regarding the sharing, I think it's just a state of mind, what you would do or not does not mean doing differently would not work out for others (well we are not the best example here but you get my point).

And yes indeed she usually blames me for not doing enough planning/cleaning when we invite people. However, on my side, I believe I'm doing a lot. But really, whatever happens, I'm never doing good enough when her family is around, be it not enough cleaning, not enough chatting, not enough demonstration of affection, not enough this or that. Once, her own sister told her that she was very disrespectful to me.

[AshitaNoIppo]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would put it this way.  "I want to marry you.  You are not sure you want to marry me.  I'd really appreciate if you can share with me your doubts and concerns and if you can't or don't want to I understand.  I'm happy to stay unmarried for _____ more [month/day year] and after that if you still don't want to get married it's best if we separate and co-parent our children."

If you knew she was never going to marry you -how long would you stay?

Thanks. To me if she wants to hold or not marry, it's the end of our relationship. I just could not trust our relationship anymore after that. Maybe this in itself put pressure on her... So it would help to understand why she has these doubts.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Thanks. To me if she wants to hold or not marry, it's the end of our relationship. I just could not trust our relationship anymore after that. Maybe this in itself put pressure on her... So it would help to understand why she has these doubts.

She may not know.  I didn't always know.  You can ask but I wouldn't demand.

[tattoobunnie]

Having to tell a person what to do each time tells that person you don't know what they ever need, and aren't paying attention when they do tell you = they aren't a priority.  It is exhausting.  Instead of addressing this issue, you call her toxic, and your only solution to no longer permit her to have family over.

1 minute ago, A***aNoIppo said:

not enough cleaning, not enough chatting, not enough demonstration of affection, not enough this or that.

It's been 16 years, and only now you want to marry her.  She probably stayed thinking you'd change with the PDA.  She had a threesome with you to please you, but of course, you get jealous.  Nothing tells a woman that you are tired of them like a threesome after being together for 16 years.

[AshitaNoIppo]

25 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Having to tell a person what to do each time tells that person you don't know what they ever need, and aren't paying attention when they do tell you = they aren't a priority.  It is exhausting.  Instead of addressing this issue, you call her toxic, and your only solution to no longer permit her to have family over.

It's been 16 years, and only now you want to marry her.  She probably stayed thinking you'd change with the PDA.  She had a threesome with you to please you, but of course, you get jealous.  Nothing tells a woman that you are tired of them like a threesome after being together for 16 years.

I'm not sure what you meant for the first part. Do you mean that she always has to tell me what to clean/prepare when her family is coming over? If yes, then no. We may have chat where I would eventually ask her what I can do to help her the most but I'm also quite active in taking initiative. From the second part I see that you misunderstood the situation.

I always told her that I wanted to marry her, but we never really were on the same ground. Now, we have enough money to do what she wants or a big part of it. This is why I proposed her. I don't know what PDA is, I think you are referring to demonstration of affection in public? If yes, I doubt she expected me to change but who knows.

We had a threesome for both of us. I was curious and she wanted sex. It was with a male that was here exclusively to please her, not me. I'm straight. I did not get jealous, I was happy for her she had a good time and could have this experience but I did not want to do it again because on my side, I did not enjoy it. She said that she wanted to do it again, eventually with more men and also try with a girl but she also said that she would respect my choice and that it would not impact our relationship. (I'm thinking now that in fact maybe it does impact)

So I tried to tell her what I wrote earlier. Something along the line that I think if she was really in love with me I don't see why she has doubt to marry me and maybe she is lying to herself when saying that she loves me.

She paused for a moment then started to cry and said she did not know what to answer. 

I told her that I don't want to pressure her but I don't want to stay in a relationship not knowing how my partner feel about it so I would like her to put active efforts into trying to find her real answer deep inside. I proposed counselling but she wants to talk to one of her relative first. I agreed and ask her to not wait too long because the situation is not easy for any of us.

She tends to always push things to do to the next day so I'm afraid that she may not actively try to find her answer and just stay like this with her doubts. I may need to insist and this may annoy her and make the situation worse. Also I don't want to stay too long in such situation so... I don't know what to do. I'll wait few days, maybe a week and see...

I'll welcome any advice/opinion. Thanks to all of you.

[ShySoul]

She feels guilty about being attracted to other men, yet was okay with another man joining in, liked the experience, and would be okay doing it again?

She wants a magical wedding, yet takes little interest in the planning?

She seems to have very mixed feelings on things. If she's this confused, maybe you should hold off on the wedding. Marriage is a big step and commitment, something you should only enter if both sides are fully committed. You've been together so long without it, you can wait a little longer to make sure the moment is right. If marriage is just a piece of paper for you, then do you really need that paper right now? If marriage is more for her, shouldn't she be the one to decide when she's folly ready for it and everything it means for her?

[MissCanuck]

I think she knows you are not the man she wants to spend her life with anymore, yet she is having trouble admitting it (even to herself)

Whatever you do, do not get married. It will be a big mistake and hurt a lot more when it all falls apart. 

[Tinydance]

How old are you? Are you her first partner? Unfortunately I tend to agree with you that her being unsure if she wants to marry you may mean she's not in love with you anymore. It would make sense if she could give you some actual reasons why she's not sure. E.g. You don't want to have the same kind of wedding celebrations that she wants. Or that she doesn't want to spend money on it but wants to go on a holiday instead or something like that. The fact she keeps saying she just doesn't know probably means she has some kind of gut feeling about it. Like a gut feeling that she doesn't want to be with you anymore. It's just a theory.

My other theory is that maybe  she's having a midlife crisis or something like that. If you were her only partner then maybe she's thinking she never experienced anyone else. Being with the other man in the threesome maybe opened a "Pandora's box." Like, planted the thoughts in her mind that other men are out there.

I think don't marry her if she's not sure. As much as it's painful but if she doesn't want to be with you then you are better off to let her go. Let her think about things more but don't push the marriage idea right now.

[AshitaNoIppo]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

How old are you? Are you her first partner? Unfortunately I tend to agree with you that her being unsure if she wants to marry you may mean she's not in love with you anymore. It would make sense if she could give you some actual reasons why she's not sure. E.g. You don't want to have the same kind of wedding celebrations that she wants. Or that she doesn't want to spend money on it but wants to go on a holiday instead or something like that. The fact she keeps saying she just doesn't know probably means she has some kind of gut feeling about it. Like a gut feeling that she doesn't want to be with you anymore. It's just a theory.

My other theory is that maybe  she's having a midlife crisis or something like that. If you were her only partner then maybe she's thinking she never experienced anyone else. Being with the other man in the threesome maybe opened a "Pandora's box." Like, planted the thoughts in her mind that other men are out there.

I think don't marry her if she's not sure. As much as it's painful but if she doesn't want to be with you then you are better off to let her go. Let her think about things more but don't push the marriage idea right now.

Thanks,

We both had short relationships before that, we met during college. We are both close to forty. 

Mariage is juste a piece of paper to me but if she wants to hold it then it means the end of our relationship in m'y mind.

The clock is ticking actually, the mariage is already planned in June. We invited everyone we wanted to. We have not paid anything yet. She has time to think about it but we cannot wait forever. I think she is just in some sort of confused period but given the mariage bound to happen in few months, it becomes a tuning point in our relationship.

She did not feel guilty about the threesome because I agreed to. She feels guilty about thinking of other men because she thinks she is kind of betraying me. Also it may be a consequence of the threesome and she said it would not impact our relationship but in fact maybe it does which makes her feel guilty.

 

[MissCanuck]

5 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Thanks,She did not feel guilty about the threesome because I agreed to. She feels guilty about thinking of other men because she thinks she is kind of betraying me.

If I had to guess, it's because the way she is thinking about other men is not limited to just sexy thoughts or passing curiosity. 

I think what she may be struggling with is actually wondering if she would ultimately be happier with someone else. Maybe those thoughts were latent before but since you introduced someone else into the bedroom, she's been thinking more and more seriously about whether she needs to end it with you altogether. 

It's a tough spot to be in for both of you. 

 

[matthew567]

I think it's ok to find others attractive we are human after all, I think its in grained in us.

I think speaking with a specialist, they might be able to uncover issues or atleast try and get to terms with stuff.

I think the threesome may of caused some hurt, Its not something I think someone should see when it's there love partner.

I think knowing that there's people out there, who will talk to you and in a sense support you, just making sure you don't feel alone, as when things like this happen.

I think trying to do something for yourself to make you feel good would help, try and give your mind a break and do something fun.

 

 

 

[AshitaNoIppo]

4 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

If I had to guess, it's because the way she is thinking about other men is not limited to just sexy thoughts or passing curiosity. 

I think what she may be struggling with is actually wondering if she would ultimately be happier with someone else. Maybe those thoughts were latent before but since you introduced someone else into the bedroom, she's been thinking more and more seriously about whether she needs to end it with you altogether. 

It's a tough spot to be in for both of you. 

 

I think it makes sense. I was convinced our relationship was stronger than that but apparently I was wrong.

I asked her if she was thinking of other men randomly or if there was a specific men around her that I was not aware of. She said there is no one specific.

It looks weird to me given how strong her doubts seem to be. I asked her yesterday if she was hiding anything from me and she replied no.

My trust in both her and our relationship is quickly decreasing day by day now...

[AshitaNoIppo]

I told her one more time that even if her doubts hurt me, I love her and I agree to wait for her decision.

I added that given the circonstances I am going to be more distant than usual. I know it's not going to help but I need it for my own sake.

In any case, she cannot just wait forever as the wedding is due in a bit less than 4 months now.

[Batya33]

32 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

I told her one more time that even if her doubts hurt me, I love her and I agree to wait for her decision.

I added that given the circonstances I am going to be more distant than usual. I know it's not going to help but I need it for my own sake.

In any case, she cannot just wait forever as the wedding is due in a bit less than 4 months now.

I cancelled my first wedding 7 weeks prior -so she has plenty of time. Forever actually. I wouldn't do the limbo approach -if you want to distance yourself because she doesn't want to marry you (she doesn't - her core doubts mean she doesn't) then don't mislead her and tell her you're also "waiting" for her - you're not.  You're only sticking around based on an external planned wedding date -what happens if she reschedules that to a year from now or three? Are you still "waiting" and being all distant as a punishment? That's the impression.

Again if marriage is just a piece of paper to you -it's not like that for her so what's the point of marrying for the wrong reasons?

[AshitaNoIppo]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I cancelled my first wedding 7 weeks prior -so she has plenty of time. Forever actually. I wouldn't do the limbo approach -if you want to distance yourself because she doesn't want to marry you (she doesn't - her core doubts mean she doesn't) then don't mislead her and tell her you're also "waiting" for her - you're not.  You're only sticking around based on an external planned wedding date -what happens if she reschedules that to a year from now or three? Are you still "waiting" and being all distant as a punishment? That's the impression.

Again if marriage is just a piece of paper to you -it's not like that for her so what's the point of marrying for the wrong reasons?

Well for me, mariage was a way to protect her financially. The proof of love was 2 kids and 16 years together. In France, I'll stay short on this topic, being married adds responsibilty but also brings a couple of protection from French state in case one of the partner die for exemple.

For her, mariage is a proof of love.

If she wants to postpone or cancel the mariage because she doubts her love for me I think we should breakup immediately.

One of the pillar of my love for her was how strong our relationship was. This pillar is fractured but not broken. If her doubts are strong enough to cancel/postpone I can't just stay with her as if everything was normal. This pillar would be broken.

I need to put distance now. Not to punish her but I don't even know if she would like any physical contact with me anymore and even if she wanted to, it would feel akward to me, given the situation. Also if I don't put distance now and she finally decides to breakup, it will make it harder for me. I love her but I need to protect myself.

[Batya33]

Just now, A***aNoIppo said:

Well for me, mariage was a way to protect her financially. The proof of love was 2 kids and 16 years together. In France, I'll stay short on this topic, being married adds responsibilty but also brings a couple of protection from French state in case one of the partner die for exemple.

For her, mariage is a proof of love.

If she wants to postpone or cancel the mariage because she doubts her love for me I think we should breakup immediately.

One of the pillar of my love for her was how strong our relationship was. This pillar is fractured but not broken. If her doubts are strong enough to cancel/postpone I can't just stay with her as if everything was normal. This pillar would be broken.

I need to put distance now. Not to punish her but I don't even know if she would like any physical contact with me anymore and even if she wanted to, it would feel award to me, given the situation. Also if I don't put distance now and she finally decides to breakup, it will make it harder for me. I love her but I need to protect myself.

I'd either fish or cut bait not this limbo nonsense.  There are ways to protect her and your children financially without getting married.