16 years relationship close to breakup?

[AshitaNoIppo]

17 hours ago, Tinydance said:

OK, this is just my opinion. Do you really feel very strongly uncomfortable about dancing at the wedding? Like, you will become very nervous and have a panic attack? Or you just don't like dancing? Marriage is about compromise and it's actually you who really wants to get married. It seems she has the dream of a fairy tale wedding with dancing and so on. Can't you just do one bride and groom dance? You said you just want to get married for financial reasons but she's  woman so to her the actual wedding is important. I would want all that at my wedding too, like the bride and groom dancing together to a slow beautiful song. It's only one day but you don't want to do any compromise but you are the one who asked her to marry.

Secondly, you keep talking here like: "We are together 16 years, we have kids, that's it we are getting married." I actually don't think you are listening because your girlfriend said she's not sure if she wants to get married. It's you who is pushing. Don't push because she is not 100% sure about this. Even financially why do you want to pay for this wedding if you might just break up later? You need both people for the wedding and she doesn't know if she wants it. You said yourself, she's just going along with everything and it was you organising it all. You are pushing all this by yourself.

I just don't like dancing. I'm introverted but not shy. I have accepted to dance at the wedding finally but honestly I believe it was a bad idea. I don't see how dancing in such circumstances, after all this can be a pleasant experience, including for her. Also since she knew I don't like it I would have prefered if she did not push on it even if it was important to her.

I start to believe dancing was not this important to her because my acceptance of dancing seems to have changed nothing in her mind which reinforce my feelings that it was just a "symptom" of her not loving me anymore.

I think I'm more waiting for the wedding rather than pushing for it.

We have been together 16 years and always wanted to marry. When I proposed 3 months ago she said it was one of the happiest day of her life. She told her family and all her friends.

• 3 weeks ago she said: I'm not sure I want to marry anymore, not sure I love you anymore, I'm thinking of other men
• 2 weeks ago she said: ok I changed my mind I love you I know you are the man I need, I was just confused
• 1 week ago: finally I'm not sure I want to marry, not sure I love you, I'm thinking of other men.

To me, If we don't marry, it will be the sign that she does not want to spend her life with me. In this case, even if I do love her, I believe it would be better to end the relationship. I don't see any world where we would stay together after cancelling the marriage as if nothing happened.

 

[AshitaNoIppo]

5 hours ago, boltnrun said:

If you two get married and end up divorcing would she still get this financial benefit?

Yes but it depends on how long we were married.

[Batya33]

You may have wanted to marry but not badly enough or you would have acted on it years ago particularly since you had kids together 

[AshitaNoIppo]

Just now, Batya33 said:

You may have wanted to marry but not badly enough or you would have acted on it years ago particularly since you had kids together 

Sure, marrying was not a life or death situation. I think she wanted to marry way more than I did, but I wanted to add financial protection on her especially as her income was quite low back then.

Also, her income grew significantly a year ago as she changed her job and she also received part of my money because I refunded our flat and she owns a part of it.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Sure, marrying was not a life or death situation. I think she wanted to marry way more than I did, but I wanted to add financial protection on her especially as her income was quite low back then.

Also, her income grew significantly a year ago as she changed her job and she also received part of my money because I refunded our flat and she owns a part of it.

All side stuff. You didn’t want to marry badly enough and telling yourself you “always wanted to “ is meaningless.  The proof is in the pudding. 

[MissCanuck]

23 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

I don't see any world where we would stay together after cancelling the marriage as if nothing happened.

And to be honest, I am not getting the impression that she would want to stay together anyway. 

This isn't just about the wedding, as you know. She is telling you she doesn't know if she loves you anymore, which to me is a pretty clear indicator that isn't sure about continuing the relationship at all. 

 

[AshitaNoIppo]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

All side stuff. You didn’t want to marry badly enough and telling yourself you “always wanted to “ is meaningless.  The proof is in the pudding. 

No idea why you say that wanting to marry is meaningless. What's your point anyway?

[AshitaNoIppo]

5 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

And to be honest, I am not getting the impression that she would want to stay together anyway. 

This isn't just about the wedding, as you know. She is telling you she doesn't know if she loves you anymore, which to me is a pretty clear indicator that isn't sure about continuing the relationship at all. 

 

Exactly what I'm thinking.
Up to this point, even if she changes her mind again, we marry, and everything goes fine, it will take years for me to trust again our relationship as much as I trusted it a month ago. But I love her so I'm willing to accept.

[Capricorn3]

52 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

No idea why you say that wanting to marry is meaningless. What's your point anyway?

I think you misunderstand what Batya is saying.  I think she's saying that if you wanted to marry badly enough, you would have asked her in the first place.  Just saying "I always wanted to" , BUT never acting on it, is meaningless.  I agree.

[Tinydance]

51 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Exactly what I'm thinking.
Up to this point, even if she changes her mind again, we marry, and everything goes fine, it will take years for me to trust again our relationship as much as I trusted it a month ago. But I love her so I'm willing to accept.

Well I think just ask her again in two months what she's feeling and if she's not sure, I would cancel the wedding. You need to give notice to the venue and people you invited so it's probably not good to leave it too late. Don't make any payments yet. Some places don't give a refund so you wouldn't want to just lose the money. This happened to me and lost $2000 deposit on the venue when I cancelled my wedding.

[AshitaNoIppo]

1 minute ago, Capricorn3 said:

I think you misunderstand what Batya is saying.  I think she's saying that if you wanted to marry badly enough, you would have asked her in the first place.  Just saying "I always wanted to" , BUT never acting on it, is meaningless.  I agree.

Sure but I acted on it since I proposed her

[AshitaNoIppo]

2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well I think just ask her again in two months what she's feeling and if she's not sure, I would cancel the wedding. You need to give notice to the venue and people you invited so it's probably not good to leave it too late. Don't make any payments yet. Some places don't give a refund so you wouldn't want to just lose the money. This happened to me and lost $2000 deposit on the venue when I cancelled my wedding.

I agree, except I doubt I will wait 2 months. She has to take a decision quicker...

[Batya33]

58 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

No idea why you say that wanting to marry is meaningless. What's your point anyway?

It’s meaningless in the way you’re using it to say “we always wanted to marry “ because the fact is you didn’t. If you’d both wanted marriage in a meaningful way you’d be married. It’s like couples who say “we always wanted to quit our jobs and travel around the world “ and sure they “want” but if they don’t do it it’s either because they can’t for practical purposes or they don’t want it  badly enough.  You and she made babies. In 16 years if you wanted to marry in a meaningful way you would have. So saying “we always wanted to us meaningless. 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Sure but I acted on it since I proposed her

Right and she didn’t say yes. 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well I think just ask her again in two months what she's feeling and if she's not sure, I would cancel the wedding. You need to give notice to the venue and people you invited so it's probably not good to leave it too late. Don't make any payments yet. Some places don't give a refund so you wouldn't want to just lose the money. This happened to me and lost $2000 deposit on the venue when I cancelled my wedding.

We did as well. At least.  And my dress which was stolen by the store I left it at for alterations. It’s ok it was not the right time to marry. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, A***aNoIppo said:

Exactly what I'm thinking.
Up to this point, even if she changes her mind again, we marry, and everything goes fine, it will take years for me to trust again our relationship as much as I trusted it a month ago. But I love her so I'm willing to accept.

Please don’t marry someone you don’t trust. 

[AshitaNoIppo]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It’s meaningless in the way you’re using it to say “we always wanted to marry “ because the fact is you didn’t. If you’d both wanted marriage in a meaningful way you’d be married. It’s like couples who say “we always wanted to quit our jobs and travel around the world “ and sure they “want” but if they don’t do it it’s either because they can’t for practical purposes or they don’t want it  badly enough.  You and she made babies. In 16 years if you wanted to marry in a meaningful way you would have. So saying “we always wanted to us meaningless. 

Someone asked me why I proposed her after 16 years and not earlier. So I explained that we always wanted to marry but we were waiting for more money for the wedding. Marrying was definitely not my priority so far.

[AshitaNoIppo]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right and she didn’t say yes. 

She said yes but is not sure anymore.

[AshitaNoIppo]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Please don’t marry someone you don’t trust. 

I know it can be difficult to understand the subtelty. I do trust her. I don't trust our relationship.

[Batya33]

Just now, A***aNoIppo said:

I know it can be difficult to understand the subtelty. I do trust her. I don't trust our relationship.

It's simple -please don't marry if you don't trust the relationship.  No subtelty here other than you're trying to make it "subtle" to rationalize poor choices IMO.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, A***aNoIppo said:

She said yes but is not sure anymore.

So that means no - if it's not YES with someone who is reasonably sure and reasonably excited to marry you - it's a no.

[AshitaNoIppo]

Just now, Batya33 said:

So that means no - if it's not YES with someone who is reasonably sure and reasonably excited to marry you - it's a no.

You said that she did not say yes but she did. That was my point.

[Batya33]

Just now, A***aNoIppo said:

You said that she did not say yes but she did. That was my point.

Right at one point she said yes.  At the present time she has changed my mind. Your point is that at one point she wanted to marry you. So? I felt that way too with the men who proposed to me and I didn't marry- I said yes then changed my mind.  I wish I hadn't said yes but I am thankful we didn't actually marry.  

[AshitaNoIppo]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It's simple -please don't marry if you don't trust the relationship.  No subtelty here other than you're trying to make it "subtle" to rationalize poor choices IMO.

I believe it would be unwise to take such a décision so quickly after 16 years together. I'm currently willing to take the risk because I love her. It's her call now.

[AshitaNoIppo]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right at one point she said yes.  At the present time she has changed my mind. Your point is that at one point she wanted to marry you. So? I felt that way too with the men who proposed to me and I didn't marry- I said yes then changed my mind.  I wish I hadn't said yes but I am thankful we didn't actually marry.  

No that was not my point. Please read carefully. My point is that you wrote she did not say yes and this is literally false, that was my point.