Was she just being nice or...

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 hours ago, Whirling D said:

What the heck? Good for you!

is “not intending to cease contact“ your roundabout way of saying that you would like to see her again, and could possibly be hopeful that you can see her again?

Tell us what happened!

So I went there and she was there with three other friends. One female who left early, one guy who was a  board member on her art committee who left early, and the other was gay. We have a nice amout of one on one time to talk, and she did her damnnest to get me to talk with the larger group when I got kinda of introverted. (but I opened up after a few drinks)  But I got to find out more about her background and see some of her art and stuff. 

One random aside...I wear a ring on my ring finger bc I like this ring and that's the one finger it fits on, but she did ask if I was married...

She asked what I was doing after and I said I hadn't thought that far in advance.  While leaving she suggested a night cap and I went to that. There we talked some more there about interests and passions and stuff. She asked if she could hug me as I left. Right after I left she sent a couple of text. One apologizing for her friends if I thoight they seemed weird. And another one saying she had fun and she hopes that I come out more often. I told her I'd love to be a fixture and she said she's loved that as well.

So it went well enough. Nothing amazing. I don't think she's interested beyond being friends, but I do think she's nice. Very, very nice and understanding.

[TheLambOfDeth]

2 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Im glad to hear it, as the volunteering and social exposure seems to be a positive for you in working with anxiety, quite apart from any impact on your romantic situation. 

If you do intend to maintain contact and volunteering, I suggest you decide up front whether you would like to pursue something with this woman, or its better to develop a friendship. Neither path is right or wrong, however in my experience, harboring secret hope while navigating the so-called "friendzone" is not a healthy experience for anxiety sufferers. Thus, if you want to keep that door open, I would tell her directly that you like her a lot, and that if she is ever interested in a date to see if there is anything there, youd be keen, but you dont think its the best idea for you to hang out socially as friends. Alternatively, if you can let go of her as a romantic interest, and embrace true friendship, then it is a good chance to expand your social circle through her, and possible meet other women you may be interested in. You could even mention it, half jokingly, that if she has any great single friends to point them your way. 

In any case, move forward not backward and you will continue to get somewhere.

I mean...I'm not madly in love with her or something. I'm not at the point where just the thought of being around her yet not being with her is just....too much to bear lol. I just think she's cute and has a nice personality. I don't get friend zoned bc if I like a woman that much where I feel I need to be with her and she's not intetested, I just leave.

At this point we're just work acquiescence. Perhaps we'll become friends one day and maybe she'll introduce me to some women she knows...who knows? I have literally no expectations.

[WaywardKiwi]

45 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

I mean...I'm not madly in love with her or something. I'm not at the point where just the thought of being around her yet not being with her is just....too much to bear lol. I just think she's cute and has a nice personality. I don't get friend zoned bc if I like a woman that much where I feel I need to be with her and she's not intetested, I just leave.

Well given your update, it is fair to say this woman is interested beyond being a simple work acquaintance. As it is still early days, I think it is fair to take it day by day and get to know her one on one further before deciding your interest. 

HOWEVER, it is objectively demonstrated through this thread that your anxiety leads you to catastrophize. In between her actively demonstrating her interest, you tend to interpret her responses, or lack of at that moment, as conclusive and final. Given this, I would definitely recommend you stay vigilant of your feelings and be prepared to ask her directly in due course if that time comes. Because it will be nerve wracking when/if it comes, and it will be too easy for you to tell yourself a narrative of hopelessness to avoid it. 

Finally, while I appreciate you avoid the friendzone but "just leaving", it does seem that in this circumstance you would unfairly be depriving yourself of a valuable and enjoyable past time and experience. It might be worth developing an alternative strategy so that if the circumstance arises, you don't have to abandon everything.

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Well given your update, it is fair to say this woman is interested beyond being a simple work acquaintance. As it is still early days, I think it is fair to take it day by day and get to know her one on one further before deciding your interest. 

HOWEVER, it is objectively demonstrated through this thread that your anxiety leads you to catastrophize. In between her actively demonstrating her interest, you tend to interpret her responses, or lack of at that moment, as conclusive and final. Given this, I would definitely recommend you stay vigilant of your feelings and be Lame…prepared to ask her directly in due course if that time comes. Because it will be nerve wracking when/if it comes, and it will be too easy for you to tell yourself a narrative of hopelessness to avoid it. 

Finally, while I appreciate you avoid the friendzone but "just leaving", it does seem that in this circumstance you would unfairly be depriving yourself of a valuable and enjoyable past time and experience. It might be worth developing an alternative strategy so that if the circumstance arises, you don't have to abandon everything.

Lamb… Kiwi hits the nail on the head with this posting. I would recommend ignoring any other negative comments and really listen to this one.

it sounds like you had a very positive and great experience with this lady. Try not to over analyze it… Yes, this is coming from the pot that’s calling the kettle black. I do the same thing.

from our outside perspective, it seems that you may have a chance at getting to know this lady better, and you should take that chance. Get on your f-ing Phone within about the next 24 hours and text her. Come up with something interesting to talk about, or maybe something interesting to do… “Hey Art lady, how “art” thou? 😊. Really enjoyed hanging out the other day… Would love to do it again… I know of this new place I’ve been wanting to check out… Want to go try it with me?“ It can be as simple as that.  It will be torture to send that text and then worse waiting for a response… But you know you have to do that, right?

take one step at a time. Expect nothing, and hope for the best. Just. Do. It.  I assure you, if it were me, that would be one of the hardest texts to send. But you’ve got opportunity. There’s no way in purgatory this lady doesn’t like you for what you’ve already presented. Try not to compartmentalize, just like I do… “She’s too much of this, or not enough of that…“. Just try to get to know the lady. Don’t put pressure on yourself or her to be a certain way. Just do and be. 

if you don’t reach out to her in about the next 24 hours, and I knew where you live, I would come and kick your 6‘ 3” arse.

as everyone is saying on here… Try to change the narrative. It is now not “I never have girls like me“ it’s now “this girl is showing she likes me, and now I want to like myself enough to allow her past my defenses and get to know her for who she is“

don’t make me have to figure out where you live and come kick your rear end… 😂

[Batya33]

I think the takeaway is she is interested in continuing to get to know you as a person.  All of getting to know people has its risks including -even platonically -not being on the same page as far as how close/how often to get together etc. I would venture to say my first sentence is more of a fact than an opinion.  Time will tell on both ends -it takes two -as far as when/how you see her socially again.  I'd lose the negativity about this particular situation meaning your "it wasn't that awful" -unnecessarily self-sabotaging.  It sounds like it was an affirmatively positive and pleasant experience.

[TheLambOfDeth]

5 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Quote

Well given your update, it is fair to say this woman is interested beyond being a simple work acquaintance. As it is still early days, I think it is fair to take it day by day and get to know her one on one further before deciding your interest. 

It seems like she wants to be actual friends, perhaps.

5 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Quote

HOWEVER, it is objectively demonstrated through this thread that your anxiety leads you to catastrophize. In between her actively demonstrating her interest, you tend to interpret her responses, or lack of at that moment, as conclusive and final. Given this, I would definitely recommend you stay vigilant of your feelings and be prepared to ask her directly in due course if that time comes. Because it will be nerve wracking when/if it comes, and it will be too easy for you to tell yourself a narrative of hopelessness to avoid it. 

If it ever get to the point where she demonstrates more than just basic friendliness, then I'll take it as such.

5 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Quote

Finally, while I appreciate you avoid the friendzone but "just leaving", it does seem that in this circumstance you would unfairly be depriving yourself of a valuable and enjoyable past time and experience. It might be worth developing an alternative strategy so that if the circumstance arises, you don't have to abandon everything

Well, there is no real alternative. If you're genuinely interested in someone, and they don't reciprocate those feelings you only have two options:

A. Contunite to be around them despite knowing your affection will never be returned

B. Remove yourself

It comes down to how interested you are. If you're really into that person, and just can't bear being around them in only a friendly capacity, it's both dishonest and unfair to yourself to stick around. You'd only be depriving yourself. As far as this circumstance, it's nothing like that at this point, but if I ever developed strong feelings for her, and she made it known she wasn't interested, there would be no other option than to vacate. Not only would remaining there make things weird, but I'd be making myself suffer.

[TheLambOfDeth]

4 hours ago, Whirling D said:

from our outside perspective, it seems that you may have a chance at getting to know this lady better, and you should take that chance. Get on your f-ing Phone within about the next 24 hours and text her. Come up with something interesting to talk about, or maybe something interesting to do… “Hey Art lady, how “art” thou? 😊. Really enjoyed hanging out the other day… Would love to do it again… I know of this new place I’ve been wanting to check out… Want to go try it with me?“ It can be as simple as that.  It will be torture to send that text and then worse waiting for a response… But you know you have to do that, right?

That depends on what you mean by getting to know her better. I may have a chance to hang out with her some more...while her friends are around. And the ball is in her court. She said she hoped I come out more often, so I told her to keep me in the loop. The last time I instigated a meeting with her, she canceled, so I'll wait until she reaches out to me. I don't want to come off as someone not respecting boundaries

 

Quote

take one step at a time. Expect nothing, and hope for the best. Just. Do. It.  I assure you, if it were me, that would be one of the hardest texts to send. But you’ve got opportunity. There’s no way in purgatory this lady doesn’t like you for what you’ve already presented. Try not to compartmentalize, just like I do… “She’s too much of this, or not enough of that…“. Just try to get to know the lady. Don’t put pressure on yourself or her to be a certain way. Just do and be. 

Like I said...the ball is in her court. I asked to meet last time and that was canceled. If she wants to meet, she'll reach out.

Quote

as everyone is saying on here… Try to change the narrative. It is now not “I never have girls like me“ it’s now “this girl is showing she likes me, and now I want to like myself enough to allow her past my defenses and get to know her for who she is“

Tbh the most logistic plan here is to get to know her enough that she'll introduce me to a single friend that might be interested, who's just a bit... fewer outlets. She basically runs the art venue, is an artist, and also teaches...she has far too much going on for me to ever realistically expect her to see me as more than just a nice guy to hang with,

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think the takeaway is she is interested in continuing to get to know you as a person.  All of getting to know people has its risks including -even platonically -not being on the same page as far as how close/how often to get together etc. I would venture to say my first sentence is more of a fact than an opinion.  Time will tell on both ends -it takes two -as far as when/how you see her socially again.  I'd lose the negativity about this particular situation meaning your "it wasn't that awful" -unnecessarily self-sabotaging.  It sounds like it was an affirmatively positive and pleasant experience.

Yes, she's possibly interested in getting to know me as a friend, and it's up to me to not get attached more than that. The next time we'll meet will be on her terms bc I'm not reaching out again...I did last time. The ball is in her court. And it's not negativity, it was an accurate summation. It was a fine outing...not bad, not amazing. 

[rainbowsandroses]

@Lamb, why not just forget about women for awhile, and focus on your purpose as a man and live your best life?   Even those manosphere sites encourage this.  IME you place far too much value on what women think of you and you're allowing it to affect you in extremely negative ways.

Simply be the best man you can be, focus on your purpose, your journey, remain genuine and true to yourself and you might discover the tide shifting in your favor as far as women go.   NOT that that should be your purpose but that is how it typically goes down. 

Since you mentioned the manosphere (or someone did) this message is all over those sites. 

FOCUS ON YOU, follow your path in life, your art, your volunteering, whatever else strikes your fancy. Women and what they think of you should not 'be" your life, the right woman should "enhance" your already fulfilling life. 

I know and have talked to many many men and this is the mindset of successful men, and they're not all Chads, in fact very few are. 

Strive to create a fulfilling life for yourself beyond women, be happy! 

I know you'll probably refute this, but I hope you will at least consider it. 

 

[Whirling D]

6 hours ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Yes, she's possibly interested in getting to know me as a friend, and it's up to me to not get attached more than that. The next time we'll meet will be on her terms bc I'm not reaching out again...I did last time. The ball is in her court. And it's not negativity, it was an accurate summation. It was a fine outing...not bad, not amazing. 

I don’t get that. A nice lady that you could like shows interest in you, perhaps arguably, and you are going to leave it in her hands to keep it going?  You can spin that anywhere you want, but that is underachieving your interests and your goal.

You want to be able to attract a nice lady and get to know them.  That seems to be your goal. Here you are with an opportunity to do just that, and you are leaving that opportunity in her hands.  I’m going to be a bit tough on you here a bit, and say… Man up! Stop making excuses and go pursue a girl that you may like. 
 

F whatever excuses you can come up with as to who ghosted or who changed plans last.  If you want to be attractive, try to do attractive things… Show this girl you are interested in getting to know her by coming up with a plan and inviting her out. It’s not rocket science. She will respect your efforts and your determination. It may or may not work, but you have to give it a shot. 
 

getting to know someone is a long road for many of us. But you’re never going to get to your destination if you back off and wait for her to start your car. You need to start your own car and step on the gas pedal. Don’t wait for her to drive your car. If you wanna get to know her, make it clear to her and step on the gas pedal.

[Batya33]

OP not sure if this will help at all but I was a staunch "guy asks girl out on a date" and while I had no issue asking men out - I found that letting the man do the asking was more effective in the beginning while I showed interest in other ways.

But.  In 2005 my future husband and I reconnected as I've written here.  We met for a platonic catch up dinner and sparks flew.  We ignored such sparks.  Couple days later he called me to ask if I'd go to a play with him (and dinner) and the way he asked seemed like he happened to have an extra ticket and that others would come too -like a platonic group outing.  It was just us -and - platonic (yes, still sparks, yes, such sparks ignored). 

That day I brought him some fresh baked coookies as he'd mentioned he was seeing his parents that weekend.  Also gave me an excuse to follow up.  "Did your parents enjoy the cookies?" No -was the response- because he knew they were too good to share (from scratch tollhouse recipe).  

But -that week - no real contact and certainly no invite for another platonic outing or otherwise. I was beside myself. Ball was in his court.  So several days later -like a week or more after the date I reached out again with the lamest excuse - that he'd been in a dream I had (G-rated completely) and -another lame excuse -wished him luck on his upcoming trip/good luck once he left town later that month, post-summer.

This was very forward of me compared to my usual - let the man hit the ball that is in his court.  

He responded.  He said he would call and did and he said he wanted to see me in two weeks after his trip. Made a Saturday night plan -still didn't refer to it as a date.  

That was the night he asked me to get back together -the beginning of our road to the beginning of a married and family life together.  In the approximately 18 years since then I have never asked him why the gap in communication that week -I do know he'd considered waiting to ask to get back together -meaning after he left town -but decided against it. 

I have my theories as to why he went silent for a bit.  I left it though -and, moreoever, I didn't hold it against him, ever (after all just like you -these were platonic outings -we had no dating relationship yet, etc). Had I assumed he wasn't that into me, that I had to "chase" him -that could have tainted everything and got in the way of us finding our way back to each other with an open mind and open heart.  Those first impression type situations can set the tone for a loooooonng time -or taint the whole beginning.  

Proceed with an open mind IMO -she sounds like a good and well-meaning person and -bonus -you know how philanthropic and how generous with her time giving  to others. 

[TheLambOfDeth]

37 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I don’t get that. A nice lady that you could like shows interest in you, perhaps arguably, and you are going to leave it in her hands to keep it going?  You can spin that anywhere you want, but that is underachieving your interests and your goal.

Well that's the thing...arguably. Every action from her even could be explained away as just being nice, or friendly. Nothing more. She's given no real indication she's seeking anything more than that from me. There's nothing to spin. If there was legit, unambiguous interest, I'd act on it.

Quote

You want to be able to attract a nice lady and get to know them.  That seems to be your goal. Here you are with an opportunity to do just that, and you are leaving that opportunity in her hands.  I’m going to be a bit tough on you here a bit, and say… Man up! Stop making excuses and go pursue a girl that you may like. 

Of course that's the goal. But that doesn't mean just making a random assumption bc someone is nice to me. As it stands there's no real opportunity with her beyond possibly friendship. Anything beyond that is guesswork, bc there have been no real signs, hints or indication that she's seeking any more with me.

It's not about manning up, it's about being reasonable. I already initiated a meeting with her, and that was rejected. She made it clear she only wants to me when her friends are around, hence her not offering up an alternative time to "reschedule" the meeting I offered. It's really easy to go from "friendly guy that volunteers for me" to "this weird, pushy guy who keeps asking to see me and won't take a hint when I try to politely brush it off". If she's actually interested, she'll reach out.

Quote

F whatever excuses you can come up with as to who ghosted or who changed plans last.  If you want to be attractive, try to do attractive things… Show this girl you are interested in getting to know her by coming up with a plan and inviting her out. It’s not rocket science. She will respect your efforts and your determination. It may or may not work, but you have to give it a shot. 

...she does not seem interested in my intent to get to know her. If Harry Styles asked her to get coffee, she would've offered up alternative dates if she really had to cancel. It's not excuses, it doesn't seem like you're looking at this objectively. You're examining this as if it's some budding relationship between two people with mutual interest, and I'm stifling it by holding back. No, she's just being nice, and the last thing I need to do is get overzealous and expect something that isn't there at all. She'd respectthose efforts and diligence if she was interested. If not, all that persistence would just come off as annoying and overbearing.

Quote

getting to know someone is a long road for many of us. But you’re never going to get to your destination if you back off and wait for her to start your car. You need to start your own car and step on the gas pedal. Don’t wait for her to drive your car. If you wanna get to know her, make it clear to her and step on the gas pedal.

It's also a road of not getting ahead of yourself and misjudging things. Initiation is attractive if the other person is interested. if they're not, it's just a bother and makes things awkward. I've made it clear I want to get to know her, I can't reasonably do anymore and not seem desperate. If there is any reciprocation, it's kind of her time to demonstrate that. I can't project, and I can only do so much.

[TheLambOfDeth]

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

OP not sure if this will help at all but I was a staunch "guy asks girl out on a date" and while I had no issue asking men out - I found that letting the man do the asking was more effective in the beginning while I showed interest in other ways.

But.  In 2005 my future husband and I reconnected as I've written here.  We met for a platonic catch up dinner and sparks flew.  We ignored such sparks.  Couple days later he called me to ask if I'd go to a play with him (and dinner) and the way he asked seemed like he happened to have an extra ticket and that others would come too -like a platonic group outing.  It was just us -and - platonic (yes, still sparks, yes, such sparks ignored). 

That day I brought him some fresh baked coookies as he'd mentioned he was seeing his parents that weekend.  Also gave me an excuse to follow up.  "Did your parents enjoy the cookies?" No -was the response- because he knew they were too good to share (from scratch tollhouse recipe).  

But -that week - no real contact and certainly no invite for another platonic outing or otherwise. I was beside myself. Ball was in his court.  So several days later -like a week or more after the date I reached out again with the lamest excuse - that he'd been in a dream I had (G-rated completely) and -another lame excuse -wished him luck on his upcoming trip/good luck once he left town later that month, post-summer.

This was very forward of me compared to my usual - let the man hit the ball that is in his court.  

He responded.  He said he would call and did and he said he wanted to see me in two weeks after his trip. Made a Saturday night plan -still didn't refer to it as a date.  

That was the night he asked me to get back together -the beginning of our road to the beginning of a married and family life together.  In the approximately 18 years since then I have never asked him why the gap in communication that week -I do know he'd considered waiting to ask to get back together -meaning after he left town -but decided against it. 

I have my theories as to why he went silent for a bit.  I left it though -and, moreoever, I didn't hold it against him, ever (after all just like you -these were platonic outings -we had no dating relationship yet, etc). Had I assumed he wasn't that into me, that I had to "chase" him -that could have tainted everything and got in the way of us finding our way back to each other with an open mind and open heart.  Those first impression type situations can set the tone for a loooooonng time -or taint the whole beginning.  

Proceed with an open mind IMO -she sounds like a good and well-meaning person and -bonus -you know how philanthropic and how generous with her time giving  to others. 

Not really, I'm afraid. I have an open mind, but the two circumstances aren't comparable. You already had a prior connection with that man, I have no such thing with her, and she's just the event manager where I volunteer. The dynamics are too different. I've already taken the risk to reach out to her. if she's at all interested, she has to do that as well. I can't keep being the one, bc all that signifies is that the interest is one-sided.

[Batya33]

She replied and took the risk to invite you to a party with her friends and included you with her friends.  The comparison is - sometimes you have to evaluate what part is ego/chip on your shoulder vs. potential connection.

Would you rather be "right" or "close" -you're into debating and proving your point - but often that's you getting in your own way of a potential nice connection.

[TheLambOfDeth]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

She replied and took the risk to invite you to a party with her friends and included you with her friends.  The comparison is - sometimes you have to evaluate what part is ego/chip on your shoulder vs. potential connection.

Would you rather be "right" or "close" -you're into debating and proving your point - but often that's you getting in your own way of a potential nice connection.

Not that I recall that night she did invite me to some dance party the next day that she and her female friend were going to but I don't like dancing and was a bit tipsy so I forgot to mention it...but it was again, another platonic event with her friend.

I would love to be wrong, but all signs point to her being nice and nothing more. I don't see how my "ego" has anything to do with this.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Not that I recall that night she did invite me to some dance party the next day that she and her female friend were going to but I don't like dancing and was a bit tipsy so I forgot to mention it...but it was again, another platonic event with her friend.

I would love to be wrong, but all signs point to her being nice and nothing more. I don't see how my "ego" has anything to do with this.

You seem to reference this quite a bit in balking at taking certain steps -you know your whole "modicum of self respect" protestations. For sure there are boundaries, self-respect etc I just think you take it too far and likely cause it's easier than being out there and socializing/developing connections, etc.  

I'm just calling it as I see it -have no need to be right or wrong .I do think sometimes people elevate being "right" over being close. Something to consider.  She seems to want to get to know you.  You seem to want to paint whatever is going on in a negative hue - and that's a darn shame.

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You seem to reference this quite a bit in balking at taking certain steps -you know your whole "modicum of self respect" protestations. For sure there are boundaries, self-respect etc I just think you take it too far and likely cause it's easier than being out there and socializing/developing connections, etc.  

I'm just calling it as I see it -have no need to be right or wrong .I do think sometimes people elevate being "right" over being close. Something to consider.  She seems to want to get to know you.  You seem to want to paint whatever is going on in a negative hue - and that's a darn shame.

I would love to be out there developing connections, socializing, meeting people, establishing my circle, etc. I am waaaaay past wanting to be right. Being right in this circumstance doesnt even benefit me. I don't care about that in the slightest anymore.

But the moment I get my hopes up, I become the guy that's infringing and becomes a bother and I can't have that.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

I would love to be out there developing connections, socializing, meeting people, establishing my circle, etc. I am waaaaay past wanting to be right. Being right in this circumstance doesnt even benefit me. I don't care about that in the slightest anymore.

But the moment I get my hopes up, I become the guy that's infringing and becomes a bother and I can't have that.

Right and if you keep telling yourself these negative generalizations in your last sentence it really undermines any efforts IMO.

I never got my hopes up -ever. These were my expectations -if I met a man and he asked me out on a time/place date I expected that barring an emergency he would show up at that place/time. If we didn't have another date planned then that was the last date until and unless he called to ask me out on a second date.  No matter if I was super attracted or just normal attracted. 

I was a realist when I dated. I saw myself as a good catch for the right person. I never assumed I was entitled to meet the right person let alone entitled to find a man to happily marry, etc.  No guarantees.  But I did work on not getting in my own way as much as possible. I did get in my own way at times for sure.  This is one reason I have the opinions I do about how you discuss your approaches.  I think a lot of this is you getting in your own way. 

[TheLambOfDeth]

32 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right and if you keep telling yourself these negative generalizations in your last sentence it really undermines any efforts IMO.

I never got my hopes up -ever. These were my expectations -if I met a man and he asked me out on a time/place date I expected that barring an emergency he would show up at that place/time. If we didn't have another date planned then that was the last date until and unless he called to ask me out on a second date.  No matter if I was super attracted or just normal attracted. 

I was a realist when I dated. I saw myself as a good catch for the right person. I never assumed I was entitled to meet the right person let alone entitled to find a man to happily marry, etc.  No guarantees.  But I did work on not getting in my own way as much as possible. I did get in my own way at times for sure.  This is one reason I have the opinions I do about how you discuss your approaches.  I think a lot of this is you getting in your own way. 

But you're projecting and don't seem to understand. I'm not in a position to go on dates with anyone. We didn't go on a date. I instigated a platonic meet and didn't even get that. I am still friendly and don't avoid her...bc but I'm sure what else I'm expected to do...You're not examining this from my perspective.

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

But you're projecting and don't seem to understand. I'm not in a position to go on dates with anyone. We didn't go on a date. I instigated a platonic meet and didn't even get that. I am still friendly and don't avoid her...bc but I'm sure what else I'm expected to do...You're not examining this from my perspective.

I believe I am. I’m not projecting. I think your perspective and mindset are getting in the way of increasing your chances of meeting suitable women. I’ve shared all I can and in the take it or leave it you’ve chosen to leave it. I’m not surprised but I’ll leave it here as perhaps someone else might find it useful.

Like many I had to take the long way around and had struggles and frustrations and disappointments.  
 

And I married a shy introvert. Imagine that.  Took him months to get up the courage to ask me to lunch in the summer of 1995. And a pep talk from his friends lol. No texting. Had to call me (we had internal office email but he never would have considered asking me out in an email ).
 And I didn’t make it easy for the simple reason that I was caught off guard by his call.  If he’d had a negative attitude he’d have assumed I wasn’t interested.
Stuff like that can change history -because if he made those negative assumptions and ended the call I’d never have asked him to lunch or anything.

We worked in the same huge company and almost never ran into each other. it can be that life changing or it can be a blip on the radar. So go ahead and dismiss all of it with your word salad way of saying “right but you don’t get it”.  But it might contribute to someone else reading.

I got a lot of good advice over the years on forums like these and just texted with a dear friend I met in 2003 on a different forum. I helped people and they helped me so I’m totally cool with you rejecting what I write out of hand. I know I’m in good company on this thread.  I do wish you the best though. 

[WaywardKiwi]

12 hours ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

If it ever get to the point where she demonstrates more than just basic friendliness, then I'll take it as such.

This is a fair approach, although given you are coming from a track record of misreading her, maybe it would be helpful to determine now what "more than basic friendliness" looks like. In my opinion, given:

1. she has already continued to be proactively friendly despite your anxiety impacting your early interactions;

2. her initiating physical closeness with a hug, despite your self-description as appearing unapproachable and having RBF;

3. her effort to introduce you to her friends and further concern at your opinion of them

already speak to at least specific interest rather than basic, general friendliness. I agree, its not necessarily romantic, however, again given your predilection to negatively interpret things due to anxiety and experience, it would be beneficial to cnsider what signals she may send so as to not put too great a burden on her. 

12 hours ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Well, there is no real alternative. If you're genuinely interested in someone, and they don't reciprocate those feelings you only have two options:

A. Contunite to be around them despite knowing your affection will never be returned

B. Remove yourself

I suppose you are correct on a very simplistic level, however my advice more relates to how you approach either of those choices. In my personal experience with this circumstance, which is unfortunately vast, it was orders of magnitude more emotionally and psychologically beneficial to clear the air directly by telling the person why I was removing myself. For more details, feel free to peruse my first posts on this forum in fact. 

[TheLambOfDeth]

10 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

This is a fair approach, although given you are coming from a track record of misreading her, maybe it would be helpful to determine now what "more than basic friendliness" looks like. In my opinion, given:

1. she has already continued to be proactively friendly despite your anxiety impacting your early interactions;

2. her initiating physical closeness with a hug, despite your self-description as appearing unapproachable and having RBF;

3. her effort to introduce you to her friends and further concern at your opinion of them

already speak to at least specific interest rather than basic, general friendliness. I agree, its not necessarily romantic, however, again given your predilection to negatively interpret things due to anxiety and experience, it would be beneficial to cnsider what signals she may send so as to not put too great a burden on her. 

I haven't been misreading anything, though. She's been nice, and I've addressed her actions as such. Nothing less, nothing more. Nice. All of those actions pointed out are just that: nice. Friendly things to do to a person you've met a couple of times. It's always small little things, never anything that implies interest beyond that. Such as her asking if I wanted to scoot over closer to her on the bench once her friend left, or asking where I lived and noting where she did and pointing out we don't live far from each other.

Just basic, friendly things, yet when I reach out, I'm always out in my place such as with the "rescheduling". And then yesterday after sending her a film recommendation after she mentioned some films to me on Thursday, all she did was give a couple of thumbs-up emojis. Signals would've been trying to have an actual conversation about it and not just brush me off. 

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I suppose you are correct on a very simplistic level, however my advice more relates to how you approach either of those choices. In my personal experience with this circumstance, which is unfortunately vast, it was orders of magnitude more emotionally and psychologically beneficial to clear the air directly by telling the person why I was removing myself. For more details, feel free to peruse my first posts on this forum in fact. 

I mean, I'm correct on a literal level. You have two options. Making a prior admission to them before making a choice doesn't change that at all. I don't really see the point in clearing the air...it doesn't change the circumstance at all. A clean break would be the best for both parties: you're not trying to guilt trip them and you get to move on.

[WaywardKiwi]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:58 AM, TheLambOfDeth said:

I didnt ask her out, I just asked to get coffee...and didn't  even get a response. Even someone who was nice to me won't even accept a basic request for a beverage. This is why I don't ever see any point in talking to people or trying, bc I'll ever only get ghosted at best.

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Welp I got my answer, I just asked her to coffee..simple. Not dinner or anything like that. She read the message almost instantly, and no reply. It's been almost an hour. I knew...this is why I have the mindset I do lol.

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And that's the point, I don't "mingle". The only place I really tried to be social was events at her venue, now I can't go there so...back to nothing lol.

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Welp she asked what day next week works for me and I told her two days ago and she hasn't replied so....again, I might've gotten my hopes up...again. It might not even happen.

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Welp I sent a follow-up to confirm the time and place yesterday, and either she blocked me or is just ignoring me bc the message is still on delivered...not even read and it's been more than 24 hours. I give up. I cant even get a woman to accept coffee with me...a woman I've already met before...lol. I don't even get friend zoned, I just get ignored and dismissed...

To clarify, the above are a few examples of you catastrophizing/misreading her. My advice is to make conscious efforts to avoid this as it may result in you acting contrary to your interests. 

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I don't really see the point in clearing the air...it doesn't change the circumstance at all. A clean break would be the best for both parties: you're not trying to guilt trip them and you get to move on.

Personally, I dont consider ghosting someone based on my own internal issues without at least advising them why a clean break. Doubly so when it also concerns a shared volunteer activity independant of any social relationship. Its not a guilt trip because at that stage you should have accepted there is no possibility of a relationship. It is simply because prior to that point you have acted in a manner that indicates at the very least you like them, and to suddenly vanish is dishonest and cowardly. As an added benefit, it also brings closure and self-worth in my experience. 

[rainbowsandroses]

What signs have you given her that would indicate your interest more than just a friendship?   

You asked her for coffee, big whoop, you said yourself it was not a date.   You sent her a video, again not an indication of interest, it's something a friend would do. 

Yet now you're complaining she didn't want to talk about it.  Did YOU initiate talking about it?  Again, from what I have read,  you have done nothing that would suggest to her you're romantically interested beyond a friendship.

Most women unless they're seeking casual sex are not going to be so bold and forward like scooting over to your side and initiating physical contact as you just posted you expect. . 

Many men especially on those manosphere sites do expect that from women and it's  just wrong. I'm sorry but that's pure entitlement.

YOU must escalate.  You must be able to risk rejection or you may as well give up on dating altogether because most women are going to be waiting for a clear signal from you that you're interested beyond friendship, which again from what I've read you have not done.  

My point is SHE may be and probably is waiting for a clear sign from you that you're interested before she feels comfortable indicating her interest. 

At least ask her on a date man, come on. That's the least.  Make it clear it's a "date" and not a friendly coffee meet and if she rejects or puts up roadblocks okay then you can walk away and move on.

But as it stands now, you're waiting for her to indicate interest and she's waiting for you.  You're at a stalemate.

Something man, come on.  Take a risk.  That's masculine energy.  Her feminine energy is receptive (if interested).

Stop being so afraid.  You simply won't know her interest level and intent unless and until you ask her on a date and make it clear it's a date.  This meeting for coffee thing is NOT that, as you admitted yourself.  Nor is sending her a video or anything else you've done.

Stop allowing your fears to drive your ship, you won't get anywhere by doing that. 

That's my read on it, as a woman.

 . 

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 minutes ago, WaywardKiwi said:

To clarify, the above are a few examples of you catastrophizing/misreading her. My advice is to make conscious efforts to avoid this as it may result in you acting contrary to your interests. 

Perhaps examples of me getting too anxious and making assumptions, but I was never too far off tbh. At the very least, expecting the worst will prevent me from coming on too strong.

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Personally, I dont consider ghosting someone based on my own internal issues without at least advising them why a clean break. Doubly so when it also concerns a shared volunteer activity independant of any social relationship. Its not a guilt trip because at that stage you should have accepted there is no possibility of a relationship. It is simply because prior to that point you have acted in a manner that indicates at the very least you like them, and to suddenly vanish is dishonest and cowardly. As an added benefit, it also brings closure and self-worth in my experience. 

Welp, we all have our way of doing things. It's not dishonest or cowardly to remove yourself IMO when you like someone, and it's clear they're not interested. If anything it's also doing them a favor. TBH I would imagine more people, and women, in general, would rather the person they aren't reciprocating interest into just ghost, than lurk around in wait.