Was she just being nice or...

[tattoobunnie]

5 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Dude...it's the after-party for her art event...at a gallery/garden bar, not "that" kind of party. I'm not hooking up with anyone. She won't even get a drink with me alone, something like that isn't even a remote possibility. Even considering that's even close to being in the cards would be setting myself up for mass disappointment.

How many after parties have you been to?  You are speaking to a previous queen of after parties in the art and music scene.  She is trying to get to know you outside of the formalities.  Ugh. But, go back to being doom and gloom.  Can't stop you.  This way, nothing is gonna ever change.

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

How many after parties have you been to?  You are speaking to a previous queen of after parties.

Well good for you, but you're projecting. You are taking the term out of context and not considering the rest of the information I've about the situation. It's an after-event at another gallery/bar. That's all. She doesn't do anything beyond being nice to me. No flirting, touching, or anything that would even suggest that. if she was even remotely interested in "hooking up" there would be some indication. If she's going to hook up with someone there it would be me, bc she's not interested in me beyond just being nice. 

[tattoobunnie]

Just now, TheLambOfDeth said:

You're projecting. You are taking the term out of context and not considering the rest of the information I've about the situation. She doesn't do anything beyond being nice to me. No flirting, touching, or anything that would even suggest that. if she was even remotely interested in "hooking up" there would be some indication. If she's going to hook up with someone there it would be me, bc she's not interested in me beyond just being nice. 

Or you're projecting.  You identify an invite to an after party as a pity invite.  That's you, dude.  You couldn't even manage to see how it went.  Instead, you write it off as you aren't good enough.  People can't build up your self-esteem or make you help yourself.  You have to do that for yourself.

[TheLambOfDeth]

1 minute ago, tattoobunnie said:

Or you're projecting.  You identify an invite to an after party as a pity invite.  That's you, dude.  You couldn't even manage to see how it went.  Instead, you write it off as you aren't good enough.  People can't build up your self-esteem or make you help yourself.  You have to do that for yourself.

It was an "invite" to an event she was already going to, anyway. The important part is, the day of, she canceled the plans I made and didn't reschedule them at that time. There is no projection there. It's a clear sign of disinterest

[bluecastle]

46 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

I've heard of men enacting similar experiments and detailing their finds. Like they would purposely write HORRIBLE bios, declaring they were sexist and wife beaters, hated women, and things I won't even mention, and they would use pictures of decent-looking men, and women still sent them likes and even messages. Despite the toxic bio, many, many women were still vying for the attention of the profile JUST be of the pictures, yet somehow...none of this is valid or matters.

Okay, I can't help but dive into this. 

We are living in a time where, thanks to the internet, we are all "hearing of" outlandish things an a preposterously high rate and have algorithms working around the clock to adjust the drip feed at nano second intervals to appease the appetite for the outlandish. This does not make any of it, or much of it, valid.

I can't for the life of me imagine a woman vying for the attention of a studly pic of a guy who announces in block letters that he beats his wife. I mean, dude. Do you really, seriously think this is what humanity is? Things are hard for you and suck for you—I get that, I'm not dismissing that—but you're a smart guy, it's clear. Too smart, I think, to "hear of" something like this and swallow it down gospel.

9 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Your story is meant for some guy who used a dating app and had to reschedule

I get that this is your read. The intention in sharing the story was to say: there is nothing weak or self-disrespectful, in my opinion and experience, to going to the after party and having a beer. Maybe it leads to nothing. Maybe not. Choosing to not go, however, is choosing a guaranteed nothing.    

9 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Umm..no. You literally don't. You can't.

I have never had a home destroyed by a tornado, so I may not understand that experience on a cellular, granular level, but I do feel confident in my capacity to "understand" that it's devastating. And here I am saying that I "understand" your own circumstances have been devastating—that's it.

And if someone came to me about their tornado-destroyed home, I would say that sucks. And if they then outlined some moonshot scenario of a possible grant for rebuilding, I'd say "Fill out the paperwork" rather than "Don't bother—it's clearly a scam."

That's just me and how I see the world.

[Kwothe28]

47 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

IDK why people do that. It's like they're telling you how wrong you are about judging your own life, and their random, anecdotal advice that you're already had 1,000 times before is somehow the key to your issues. It's insulting and really minimizes the issues you're facing bc you can tell people have no idea, yet want to pretend they're experts and tell you how wrong you are.

Well, most people here are women so you cant expect them to understand the average man struggles. In the same way you dont understand average women struggles. For example, yes, its way easier for an average woman to attract the man. Especially on dating apps where due to ratio of men and women, and that men are not that picky while women are, they get 100+ likes a day. In that conditions, yes, they would go for most handsome, most charming etc. While lots of average men wouldnt get a glimpse. But most of those men they choose, just chase a hookup. Because they would also have an abudance of women. So at the end, those women still stay single as you are. Hence why here on Forum, 2 biggest groups of people who come for help are

1) men who cant even get dates or hardly get dates

2) women who get left after sex

If you ask me both groups have a common enemy: Men who date multiple women at once. That demographic is taking away opportunities from one group and leaves other group in the dust. But instead men hate women who wont date them and women hate men because they just want sex. Thank you, thank you, welcome to my purple pill talk. 😆

Real talk now, I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. Sure, you wont get as many opportunities as some Chad or would get noticed by women a lot. But in my honest opinion, abudance of men just doesnt get noticed at all or at least notice that they are noticed. Ask any man when is the last time they got a compliment from a woman? Most would have to think hard for that one. But they still get women, get married, have kids etc. Do you know why? Because they try. Women wont drool over you like you are some boy band member. But if you present yourself in good light they would give you an opportunity. I mean look at your example, with little try you got a date(well, almost a date). Imagine if you would do that for every perspective woman that you meet? You would at least got dates and opportunities to get something more.

Also I am sorry, but what do you suggest people to tell you? Yes, with confidence you will get women. I have an aquitance, he has a minimum wage job, beer belly, isnt that pretty at all(until a few years ago when he fixed his teeth he had a very big and noticable teeth problem like he is from England), and even is very violent. And he still gets women based oin confidence. He has one previous marriage and a kid and another kid with different woman(who btw has college degree) on the way. Do you know how? He is confident. His mantra is: If one woman doesnt want me, another one will. 

Yes, its hard to be confident on the spot. But if you want to approach women and for that to go somewhere, I am sorry, you would have to at least "fake it till you make it" somehow. You wouldnt maybe get the abudance of women. But you would stand a chance to get some woman. That you would like and that would like you.

[Batya33]

41 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

have never had a home destroyed by a tornado, so I may not understand that experience on a cellular, granular level, but I do feel confident in my capacity to "understand" that it's devastating. And here I am saying that I "understand" your own circumstances have been devastating—that's it.

And if someone came to me about their tornado-destroyed home, I would say that sucks. And if they then outlined some moonshot scenario of a possible grant for rebuilding, I'd say "Fill out the paperwork" rather than "Don't bother—it's clearly a scam."

That's just me and how I see the world.

I have a friend with 3 kids under 12, her mom lives with them and she can be a handful too and her husband has late stage terminal cancer.  And she just had two root canals -emergency -never had a root canal in her life.  As for me -I have one child, never lived with my mom, thank the lord my husband is very healthy, and I've had root canals but never two at once and not while caring for an 8 year old with 102 fever and a stomach bug.

For some odd reason, for about the last 20 years, she tells me over and over again that I am her safe place to come for venting, advice etc (and also we have tons of fun convos on all sorts of topics!) -she knows full well I cannot know what it's like - I've never pretended to!! -but I do know how to be her friend, I do know how to support her, I do know how to stand by her side even when texting. She tells me she loves that I don't judge because obviously she loses it at times -who wouldn't -and she's also a therapist (not my therapist -a therapist) so in that way she likely is even more knowledgeable about how to be a supportive friend.

All of this -and I am so thankful and appreciative she feels this way -because I mean it that way -and she's never once told me "how would you know -you've never had _____ [see list above]."  I don't think she's special in this regard -or that I am -I think many many people can relate to tragic or tough or struggly life events whether or not they went through it -relate at least in the sense that they can give relevant, meaningful, input and support.

And as I've written here I took the loooooooong way around to marriage and motherhood.  My son likes to say with a wink wink "oh, well you're just a mom right??" when I do some mom type thing whether helpful, irritating or whatever. 

But when I so badly wanted to be "just a mom" and it was frustratingly out of my reach it seemed -might never be in my reach -of course I didn't want to hear from people who tried to dismiss my dream as "but then you'll be just a mom" - but I found that people who were never going to be moms (women who didn't wanna be, men who might be dads not moms, women who were past fertility and not into adopting) could help me immensely if they cared, wanted to try to see things from my perspective and had had similar challenges -having a dream that seemed out of reach with a timing issue.

[TheLambOfDeth]

57 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Well, most people here are women so you cant expect them to understand the average man struggles. In the same way you dont understand average women struggles.

1) men who cant even get dates or hardly get dates

2) women who get left after sex

Well then if they don't understand, don't pretend to. Don't give me advice meant for other people when you can't even comprehend my issue, then get mad at me and make assumptions, and gaslight me when your incorrect advice doesn't work. Literally, all it does is frustrates, It doesn't help.

And the difference is: I don't do that. I don't go into threads made by women and attempt to give them advice. Ever. I don't pretend to understand, and I'm self-aware enough to not project and gaslight them based on my own experiences, like many people who want to "give advice" about things they don't understand wind up doing. So I avoid those threads.

Quote

For example, yes, its way easier for an average woman to attract the man. Especially on dating apps where due to ratio of men and women, and that men are not that picky while women are, they get 100+ likes a day. In that conditions, yes, they would go for most handsome, most charming etc. While lots of average men wouldnt get a glimpse. But most of those men they choose, just chase a hookup. Because they would also have an abudance of women. So at the end, those women still stay single as you are. Hence why here on Forum, 2 biggest groups of people who come for help are

1) men who cant even get dates or hardly get dates

2) women who get left after sex

But those women are single bc they keep making the same shallow, decisions, I'm single bc I wasn't born hot enough and I don't make enough money...even though I'm not even going after hot or beautiful women. It's like comparing the "problem" of not choosing the perfect restaurant for dinner to literal starvation. One is your own fault, the other is a real problem.

That's toxic, shallow behavior, and the choice is in their hand. And those women have an easy solution: don't be vapid. It's their own fault for being shallow and only going after the most hot and charismatic men, and not giving anyone else a chance. If you're a woman, maybe don't exclusively choose the Zac Effron lookalikes that has dozens of women lusting over him. At least don't expect him to settle down and only date you, when you know he won't bc you only date men that look like that, and this has already happened dozens of times and you know those men have all the options and yet you wonder why every man you choose, uses you. Maybe don't blame "all men" when you only consider the top 10% and aren't even giving other guys a second look...Just say "all the hot ones bc I'm too shallow to give other men a shot".

Maybe don't ignore the legions of other guys who wouldn't cheat and would actually be decent just bc they don't look like a supermodel? No, but instead just blame all men bc you're addicted to chasing only the top 10% and expecting them to be different. It's literal insanity. Sure it's a "problem" but a self-inflicted one, and not a REAL problem such as literally having NO OPTIONS AT ALL.

Quote

If you ask me both groups have a common enemy: Men who date multiple women at once. That demographic is taking away opportunities from one group and leaves other group in the dust. But instead men hate women who wont date them and women hate men because they just want sex. Thank you, thank you, welcome to my purple pill talk. 

 

I've literally had the discussion with a friend before. They're the only ones who get what they want. Yes, it's women that give them the power, bc they're literally the only men women consider. They perpetuate the cycle. Men get ignored or ghosted by women bc they have too many options and they bolt once Chad comes along, and women get ghosted by the Richard Madden looking guy bc she thinks she can "change him" and doesn't want anyone who doesn't look as good. Please tell me how these problems are fair? Or even comparable? lol. But somehow we're supposed to pretend they are...

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Real talk now, I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. Sure, you wont get as many opportunities as some Chad or would get noticed by women a lot. But in my honest opinion, abudance of men just doesnt get noticed at all or at least notice that they are noticed. Ask any man when is the last time they got a compliment from a woman? Most would have to think hard for that one. But they still get women, get married, have kids etc. Do you know why? Because they try. Women wont drool over you like you are some boy band member. But if you present yourself in good light they would give you an opportunity. I mean look at your example, with little try you got a date(well, almost a date). Imagine if you would do that for every perspective woman that you meet? You would at least got dates and opportunities to get something more.

Dude, I'm not asking for as many opportunities as anyone else, let alone a Chad. I'm not asking for hot women, or gorgeous beautiful women or anything. I'm not asking for women to compliment me or hit on me or ask me out or any of that. I'm just asking for opportunities with women that aren't grotesquely ugly. That's all. And that wasn't a "little try".  After volunteering multiple times at a woman's venue, after trying to just meet for casual drinks, all I got was a pity invite to her event party, that she was already going to. So the best I can get is a pity invite, not even casual drinks, with a semi-work acquaintance......yeah. I have no shot at a woman ever being remotely into me. Maybe if I start trying now I can get a real date by the close of the decade. It's just hopeless tbh.

Quote

Also I am sorry, but what do you suggest people to tell you? Yes, with confidence you will get women. I have an aquitance, he has a minimum wage job, beer belly, isnt that pretty at all(until a few years ago when he fixed his teeth he had a very big and noticable teeth problem like he is from England), and even is very violent. And he still gets women based oin confidence. He has one previous marriage and a kid and another kid with different woman(who btw has college degree) on the way. Do you know how? He is confident. His mantra is: If one woman doesnt want me, another one will. 

More than likely there's nothing to say...it kinda is what is it and at some point, you have to accept that. Everyone has some anecdotal person they know like that but, at the end of the day, I can't do what those people do, and women don't react to me in the same way. It's different. I don't get chances I don't get opportunities...ever. I can't spontaneously conjure confidence out of nowhere when they're never a semblance of reason to. It's a nice mantra to have, but if none of them ever seem remotely interested, it's kinda hard to think otherwise.

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Yes, its hard to be confident on the spot. But if you want to approach women and for that to go somewhere, I am sorry, you would have to at least "fake it till you make it" somehow. You wouldnt maybe get the abudance of women. But you would stand a chance to get some woman. That you would like and that would like you.

I don't think those women exist tbh...

[bluecastle]

25 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

But those women are single bc they keep making the same shallow, decisions...That's toxic, shallow behavior, and the choice is in their hand. And those women have an easy solution: don't be vapid. It's their own fault for being shallow and only going after the most hot and charismatic men, and not giving anyone else a chance.

So, um, on one hand you say you wouldn’t deign to offer advice or solutions to those you can’t possibly understand, before winding the magic wand and offering this understanding of a high swath of women and what they need to do to avoid their plight? 

It sucks that this woman had to cancel last night. It also sucks that you can’t see her asking about tonight’s party as anything but pity. 

[TheLambOfDeth]

29 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

So, um, on one hand you say you wouldn’t deign to offer advice or solutions to those you can’t possibly understand, before winding the magic wand and offering this understanding of a high swath of women and what they need to do to avoid their plight? 

It sucks that this woman had to cancel last night. It also sucks that you can’t see her asking about tonight’s party as anything but pity. 

It's a very understandable "issue". I can't understand...for example, the threat of sexual assault or the fear of it while walking home alone or instances like that. As a man, that is a fear I can never really understand. Anyone can understand the concept of having too many options, only choosing the absolute best in (physical and charm components only) and wanting them to conform while also not waiting to be called shallow bc the men that do conform don't meet your looks threshold. When men do this (the men who can) people call them shallow, vapid, and toxic. 

BUT you don't want to be considered shallow so you blame "all men"(not just the hot ones, of course, bc that would give away the whole charade)..somehow...instead of blaming yourself and your own choices and decisions. If you're the common denominator in circumstances in which you are constantly being used or not committed to, perhaps there's a hint there somewhere lol.

I don't go into those self-indulgent threads and attempt to give advice or say what I said here in any of their threads. Bc ultimately those women already know what the answer is. The truth is: they don't want to settle for less attractive men, despite knowing they'd treat them better. Those women would rather just do fun things with hot guys and complain about it until she finds the next one bc it makes them feel better.

They'll just play those games until they're like...40 and can't get those guys anymore and then settle for some average guy. When they have to. And it's not my place to tell them. (not that they would listen) It's just...be honest. Stop lying about your situation, and stop averting blame. Stop saying "Where are all the decent men?" when you're literally not even looking at 80% of them...

Quote

It sucks that this woman had to cancel last night.

Yes, it does, but at least I now know where I stand. Volunteer only. Nothing more. Better to find out sooner tbh. (not that I didn't already know...as I always do)

[tattoobunnie]

Look, we can all coddle you, and just nod our heads with your misery, but I remember being your age and dating, and looking for "the one."  In fact at your age, I wanted to off myself after a relationship that brought me to ENA.  It took 3 years to work though things, even while dating, to figure out what I wanted, being happy with being on my own, never marrying, and just living life to the fullest. 

There are plenty of people who didn't coddle me, and honestly, because of that, I was ready for the love of my life that I'm happily married to with kids.  I feel fricken fulfilled, and it wasn't because of a relationship.  And it's not because I managed to become a "10" or "mega-rich."

You are teetering between staying in your comfort zone or getting it...but you'll never, ever get out of your funk if you don't get out of your G-Da** way.

[Whirling D]

You can’t possibly know what this lady is thinking. You are driving yourself crazy even trying. I get it. I know. Ask anyone here.

but here’s the deal. You have an opportunity in front of you to get to know a lady that you might like. It almost doesn’t matter what the circumstance is, why don’t you take the f-ing chance? What in the world do you have to lose?

here’s a potential of what could have happened with this lady… She wanted to meet you and sit down and have a nice conversation with somebody that seems interesting. Her meeting runs over, she’s been running around all day, it’s getting late and she’s tired.

it might have not been easy for her brain to figure out when the next best time would be, but she knows that she has an event tomorrow, that is similar to events that you’ve been to before, which could be comfortable for you. Maybe.

why is that an automatic strike out with her?

just get up to the pitcher’s mound and throw your best pitch. It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that. Don’t let fear let the ball slip out of your hand into the dirt.

 

[TheLambOfDeth]

41 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Look, we can all coddle you, and just nod our heads with your misery, but I remember being your age and dating, and looking for "the one."  In fact at your age, I wanted to off myself after a relationship that brought me to ENA.  It took 3 years to work though things, even while dating, to figure out what I wanted, being happy with being on my own, never marrying, and just living life to the fullest. 

There are plenty of people who didn't coddle me, and honestly, because of that, I was ready for the love of my life that I'm happily married to with kids.  I feel fricken fulfilled, and it wasn't because of a relationship.  And it's not because I managed to become a "10" or "mega-rich."

You are teetering between staying in your comfort zone or getting it...but you'll never, ever get out of your funk if you don't get out of your G-Da** way.

That's the issue....I can't get dates, so I'm not dating. I'm not looking for "the one" bc I can't anyone, let alone the one. The very first sentence of your post already outlines how different your situation was...so how is anything you say after supposed to be at all applicable, when you don't even understand what I've been saying? It's like people are responding to an entirely different person...

Even while you had an issue you we still dating. My issue is not being able to get a single date, not having a bad relationship, or trying to find the perfect partner. You were able to be happy with yourself while still dating and having options. That.is.my.point. Try doing that while having no options, opportunities, experiences, or anything. No one is able to be confident like that. You were considering being on your own VOLUNTARILY...while you still had options. All your post does is further highlight how important is it to be able to date and have options. I don't need to be coddled, I need dates...which.I.can't.get.

What you're talking about isn't the same in any metric as having no options, and basically being forced to be alone against your wishes unless you just can convince yourself to be attracted to very, very unattractive women. Please show me some examples of men being faced with that ultimatum that are these spry beacons of unabashed confidence. 

And of course, you didn't have to do that, women don't have to worry about being a 10 or rich...(women have never had to worry about the latter....ever) that's what men have to be these days. DK why you would even mention that...

[TheLambOfDeth]

25 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

You can’t possibly know what this lady is thinking. You are driving yourself crazy even trying. I get it. I know. Ask anyone here.

but here’s the deal. You have an opportunity in front of you to get to know a lady that you might like. It almost doesn’t matter what the circumstance is, why don’t you take the f-ing chance? What in the world do you have to lose?

here’s a potential of what could have happened with this lady… She wanted to meet you and sit down and have a nice conversation with somebody that seems interesting. Her meeting runs over, she’s been running around all day, it’s getting late and she’s tired.

it might have not been easy for her brain to figure out when the next best time would be, but she knows that she has an event tomorrow, that is similar to events that you’ve been to before, which could be comfortable for you. Maybe.

why is that an automatic strike out with her?

just get up to the pitcher’s mound and throw your best pitch. It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that. Don’t let fear let the ball slip out of your hand into the dirt.

 

It's simple: if it was that important of a meeting that ran past 8, that means it was already on the calendar, so she knew about it before scheduling our meet. If she actually wanted to meet, she would've proposed a different day before accepting Wednesday. This was just an easy out. The after-party invite is so I don't feel too slighted and stick around to volunteer for her when needed.

[Whirling D]

20 minutes ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

It's simple: if it was that important of a meeting that ran past 8, that means it was already on the calendar, so she knew about it before scheduling our meet. If she actually wanted to meet, she would've proposed a different day before accepting Wednesday. This was just an easy out. The after-party invite is so I don't feel too slighted and stick around to volunteer for her when needed.

 One of the first psychologist authors whose book I ever read used to call what you are saying here “crystal ball thinking“. You don’t have a crystal ball to know that’s true or not.

That’s nothing more than conjecture, and your figure is on the trigger of a gun pointed right at your foot. 

what purpose is that serving you? The only purpose that comes to mind is it will absolutely, like blue said, guarantee that you’ll never get to know this woman.

In hockey, you’ll often hear coaches say, “you will miss 100% of the shots you never take”.

in hockey, you’ll often hear coaches say, “you will miss 100% of the shots you never take“.

Don’t think. Do. Take the shot.

[Andrina]

You put her between a rock and a hard place. She's the coordinator of the volunteers, and you're a volunteer. When you asked her to meet up, she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she assumes you're into her and she's either not into you, or finds it inappropriate to date a volunteer, if she say's "No, I don't want to mix business with pleasure with a volunteer, she would feel as though it would be an awkward conversation full of assumptions, which may be false. She might have at first said, yes, and then realized it was a mistake and is trying her best to keep your interactions as pleasant colleagues.

When you said before that you in no way would no longer volunteer if she ghosted you, then you're volunteering for the wrong reasons. I thought you were volunteering because art is a passion of yours, and you're doing this for yourself and to give back to society. She is but one person present there, so what does it matter if she doesn't behave as you would've liked, especially as you're the one who put her in that awkward position.

I previously recommended not dating right now, and building up your passions in this art hobby and forming some friendships. I'll tell you that your average looks have nothing to do with why you're single. The angry seething and defeatist attitude going on in your brain is emanating from your demeanor, aura, and is clearly shown on your face.

As an example, the now deceased Bob Ross who had the show teaching people to paint was totally average in looks. Liver spots and all, he had a huge following of women who were gaga over him. Why? His passion for his art. His positive presence, in the words he spoke to describe what he was painting. 

As is right now, a woman would be terrified to go out with you when your thoughts show through very clearly on your face and demeanor, no matter if you don't think that's happening. You thought it was normal to text that lady about why you ran off so quickly at those events, which was another clue your emotions run too extreme. A woman needs to know that if she dates you, that if things don't work out, you can part pleasantly as two mature adults. And women are usually intuitive, so I'm sure they can sense this might not be the case since you're already on edge, even at the beginning.

As I said before, work on building a life where you have a hobby and a few friends, because a woman is too scared to be the only good thing in your life. You've begun this volunteering, so that's a great step forward. Don't sabotage yourself by running away just because things got a little rocky. Resilient people are more successful than people who have wed noodles for spines.

People are taking their time to type because they care. If we do, others physically in your life will eventually do that as well, if you mellow out and take your armor off.

[Jaunty]

OP - you are not dateable, I can agree with you on that one.  You're wrong, though, about the reasons.  You are so risk averse that you won't do anything.  So, of course, you can't date.  You refuse to take the risks. 

To compound matters, you are creating a persona for yourself that nobody would choose to be around.  

I'm not interested in debating this or hearing your "manosphere" world view explanations.  Anybody who's been here or on other relationship forums for the past 15 years or even reads the news is well aware of this mantra.  It's predictable, ignorant, disrespectful, toxic and other people will try to get away from people who espouse it, just as  many of us turn and walk away when people start spouting racist creeds or laying some fundamentalist religious dogma on us.   You're  buying a load of hooey and using it to explain your lives.  Sad.

Join reality someday.  It will be better.  You can start with looking down the street or on your social media at some pictures of bad looking guys who are with a woman.  

You're welcome, and good luck with your new, refreshing and soon to be realized attitude adjustment.

[WaywardKiwi]

Okay, that was a lot more to get through than I anticipated. 

I am fairly selective on the threads I respond to on this forum and remember your previous threads regarding being unable to meet or interact with women. Given most of this thread, I do stand by the advice I gave there.

In terms of this specific circumstance, given you are resigned to no longer pursuing this woman, or indeed even continuing to volunteer at the organisation with which she is affiliated, I suggest you send her a final message explaining that. Tell her that you enjoyed volunteering at the events, and genuinely enjoyed her company. You regret that you anxiety made it difficult to really participate how you would like to, and that given that you have developed a crush on her, you unfortunately won't be attending any further events. You should do this because you hold others to a fairly high standard regarding ghosting and being direct, and I think you should practice what you preach.

Finally, this whole saga at least disproves your previous thread in that you have come much closer to what you were seeking by following some advice here, at least in a limited capacity. I would caution against discounting this entire project due to this very specific event. 

[catfeeder]

21 hours ago, Whirling D said:

 One of the first psychologist authors whose book I ever read used to call what you are saying here “crystal ball thinking“. You don’t have a crystal ball to know that’s true or not.

That’s nothing more than conjecture, and your figure is on the trigger of a gun pointed right at your foot. 

what purpose is that serving you? The only purpose that comes to mind is it will absolutely, like blue said, guarantee that you’ll never get to know this woman.

In hockey, you’ll often hear coaches say, “you will miss 100% of the shots you never take”.

in hockey, you’ll often hear coaches say, “you will miss 100% of the shots you never take“.

Don’t think. Do. Take the shot.

Ghaaad, Whirl, you have no idea how refreshing it is to see you try to grapple with someone who is as stubbornly fatalistic and self-sabotaging as you’ve been!

Lamb, if you want a clone of your position, read Whirl’s threads prior to the nice Doctor Lady. Then read all the prophesizing he did to knock down her acceptance of him to learn exactly how you cage yourself and make that cage true—when it doesn’t need to be true.

Good luck with that, guys. I hope you can help one another.

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Ghaaad, Whirl, you have no idea how refreshing it is to see you try to grapple with someone who is as stubbornly fatalistic and self-sabotaging as you’ve been!

Lamb, if you want a clone of your position, read Whirl’s threads prior to the nice Doctor Lady. Then read all the prophesizing he did to knock down her acceptance of him to learn exactly how you cage yourself and make that cage true—when it doesn’t need to be true.

Good luck with that, guys. I hope you can help one another.

Well, there is a bit of a difference, and I hope Lamb is still reading… (although he may be turned off by a lot of the comments… And I wouldn’t blame him).

The biggest part that is different between our stories, is that I took the shots. That’s what he needs to do. I still agree with much of his philosophy, because I’ve lived it, just like he has.

I gave you guys anecdote after anecdote as to why I believed what I did, and most of it is unrefutable. So, in that regard, I can completely relate to what he’s talking about.

but if he doesn’t take the shot, how can he land any kind of possibility with this lady? I didn’t think it was possible that I would meet somebody that I like. I still scratch my head and feel like saying things to her to question why in the world she says she likes me, and to beg her not to break my heart. Because that’s been the way the world has been for me for most of my adult life. 

I’m guessing lamb has already conceded his defeat, although I certainly hope that’s not the case.

[TheLambOfDeth]

23 hours ago, Andrina said:

You put her between a rock and a hard place. She's the coordinator of the volunteers, and you're a volunteer. When you asked her to meet up, she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she assumes you're into her and she's either not into you, or finds it inappropriate to date a volunteer, if she say's "No, I don't want to mix business with pleasure with a volunteer, she would feel as though it would be an awkward conversation full of assumptions, which may be false. She might have at first said, yes, and then realized it was a mistake and is trying her best to keep your interactions as pleasant colleagues.

Nah, you're not understanding. Firstly, she's invited me out before... the first time I canceled, the other time she did, and she's invited me to meet her friends before as well. This was the precedent she set. Secondly, I said let's grab drinks or coffee. I didn't ask for dinner and mention a date. The text was as casual and platonic as possible.  You're misreading the tone and the assumption of the ask to meet, bc she's instigated hanging out together away from work before, and my ask was just friendly, not a date.

 

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When you said before that you in no way would no longer volunteer if she ghosted you, then you're volunteering for the wrong reasons. I thought you were volunteering because art is a passion of yours, and you're doing this for yourself and to give back to society. She is but one person present there, so what does it matter if she doesn't behave as you would've liked, especially as you're the one who put her in that awkward position.

I'm not going to volunteer at a place where the manager there can't meet me for coffee. That's no romantic, that's just basic social decorum. I would have to interact with her there, as she leads it, so it would just be weird. I'd just go volunteer elsewhere. I do love art, but again, it wasn't an awkward position, bc that tone had already been set. You're crating a narrative in your head that isn't indicative of my situation.

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I previously recommended not dating right now, and building up your passions in this art hobby and forming some friendships. I'll tell you that your average looks have nothing to do with why you're single. The angry seething and defeatist attitude going on in your brain is emanating from your demeanor, aura, and is clearly shown on your face.

Dude I'm already not dating. I've been not dating for the past like four years. The point is I'm always not dating. When I don't look for dates, I can't find dates, and when I do...I still can't find dates. The only consistent theme is I'm never going to date, whether I want to or not. There is no choice. And I'm not average looking...average men can use OLD and get dates. I'm ugly. It has much, much less to do with my attitude and its moreso my looks. There's not some "seething aura emanating from my brain" I'm not a school shooter...I'm just ugly. 

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As an example, the now deceased Bob Ross who had the show teaching people to paint was totally average in looks. Liver spots and all, he had a huge following of women who were gaga over him. Why? His passion for his art. His positive presence, in the words he spoke to describe what he was painting. 

Yes, I'm sure his status, money, and fame had nothing to do with it....

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As is right now, a woman would be terrified to go out with you when your thoughts show through very clearly on your face and demeanor, no matter if you don't think that's happening. You thought it was normal to text that lady about why you ran off so quickly at those events, which was another clue your emotions run too extreme. A woman needs to know that if she dates you, that if things don't work out, you can part pleasantly as two mature adults. 

...you've literally never seen me, yet someone you're an expert on my facial expression. You're doing way too much projecting and assuming here. I text her why I left, bc I was volunteering and it was her event, and the second time I'd say I would stay. I wasn't trying to date this woman, I asked her to coffee. If I was trying to date someone, I'd act differently. I've said it a few times...I WAS NOT trying to date her. I never flirted with her or sent late-night text, hinted at anything sexual, etc. I was as platonic as can be. Again, you are really misreading this and crating your own story you're replying to here.

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And women are usually intuitive, so I'm sure they can sense this might not be the case since you're already on edge, even at the beginning.

Is that why so many women wind up dating horrible guys over and over and miss all the signs from wife-beaters, assaulters, cheaters, addicts, thieves, liars, murderers, etc? Where was the intuition there to sense these guys don't have the best character? Women can sense I'm ugly...that's it. If I was hot and a horrible person, I'd have no issue getting women. Ted Bundy had women who swore he was innocent and some who didn't even care about what he did. Neither men nor women can "sense" those things, they just don't care about them if you're hot.

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As I said before, work on building a life where you have a hobby and a few friends, because a woman is too scared to be the only good thing in your life. You've begun this volunteering, so that's a great step forward. Don't sabotage yourself by running away just because things got a little rocky. Resilient people are more successful than people who have wed noodles for spines.

...what are you even talking about? You're literally just making things up with no evidence. My issue isn't women being scared of being the "only good thing in my life"...which is a pretty egotistical thing to think. I can't get dates...women don't know about my life to even think that. I can't even get to the point where women consider dating me, let alone being part of my life. You are confusing my post with someone else's. You're responding as if we went on multiple dates and I asked her to be my gf or something....it was a coffee ask. That's it. Women accept actual dates from strangers. I didn't ask for a lot...

[Batya33]

OP lose the attitude that “everyone” else has it “easier “ when if comes to finding dates, a relationship, let alone “the one”.  And forget about life being fair or there being any guarantees in this regard. Nope.  Comparisons are a cop out. I can tell you all the darn hoops I had to jump through and over and squeeze under to reach my most important life goals and you’ll get all up in your “you have no idea because at least you ……”

Please know you never know. And please know even if we don’t know exactly what you go through now or went through yesterday or last year it doesn’t impact the basic issue of this being mostly you getting in your own way. And on top of that being tone deaf and/or reacting in an - ahem- unpleasant manner  to a lot of the great input here in favor of your notions of self respect and pride and ego. The negative comfort zone as I like to call it. 
so much is a matter of mindset and perspective. I made my son a provolone omelette for brunch.  It’s nothing special - it’s a meal at least once a week - but this time I added this umami garlic herb mixture so the kitchen smelled like some gourmet cooking. He called to me “wow mom you’re a great cook!!!” 

I mean no. I’m not. Especially by comparison to the “oh please shut up about your perfect kids “ mamas on social media. Who cares?  He votes for me as number one cook at that moment and I promise you later today I’ll be number one cringiest mom ever. I’ll take what I can get from a teenager. 
 

Just like this lady accepted your coffee invite not by comparison to other gentlemen she knows but because at that moment she regarded you as a person she would enjoy hanging with in person. Take it for what it’s worth. What’s the harm ?? You only live once.  

[TheLambOfDeth]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Just like this lady accepted your coffee invite not by comparison to other gentlemen she knows but because at that moment she regarded you as a person she would enjoy hanging with in person. Take it for what it’s worth. What’s the harm ?? You only live once.  

Must've been a hell of a fleeting moment, considering she canceled. There's nothing to take it for. It was a rejection of just friendly coffee. Doesn't get more clear than that.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, TheLambOfDeth said:

Must've been a hell of a fleeting moment, considering she canceled. There's nothing to take it for. It was a rejection of just friendly coffee. Doesn't get more clear than that.

She didn’t cancel. She wanted to reschedule. What you wrote is my point. It’s all about perspective and mindset. Not just with dating. 

[TheLambOfDeth]

10 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

In terms of this specific circumstance, given you are resigned to no longer pursuing this woman, or indeed even continuing to volunteer at the organisation with which she is affiliated, I suggest you send her a final message explaining that. Tell her that you enjoyed volunteering at the events, and genuinely enjoyed her company. You regret that you anxiety made it difficult to really participate how you would like to, and that given that you have developed a crush on her, you unfortunately won't be attending any further events. You should do this because you hold others to a fairly high standard regarding ghosting and being direct, and I think you should practice what you preach.

lolno...I'm not saying anything, let alone an awkward message like that. In the same way she didn't owe me honestly by just saying she wasn't interested in coffee in the first place, or she didn't owe me her time to get coffee, I don't owe her an explanation about not going back there. Even steven.

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Finally, this whole saga at least disproves your previous thread in that you have come much closer to what you were seeking by following some advice here, at least in a limited capacity. I would caution against discounting this entire project due to this very specific event. 

Much closer? To what? What is a polite rejection for a social meet from a pseudo-coworker closer to? An impolite one? It just proved no matter how hard I try I'll never get a date...not even a work date lol.