Reconnecting with an ex after several years of therapy. Is she just lonely?

[NighttimeNightmare]

59 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

 

You are under the mistaken impression that most everyone else can read subtle clues, flirting or in between the lines when many of us struggle just like you do and when you throw your past together in there and your obvious aversion to putting yourself out there it is easy to see why others peoples situations seem so clear to you.  Simply put you have no risk involved with their situation so you can see it more clearly

 

Very interesting. I’ve never thought of this, obviously. Really good to know.  
 

but you’re correct about the risk, I’m risk and vulnerability adverse. I’ve spent the majority of my life avoiding feelings and controlling people to be who I wanted so I felt secure. 
 

years of therapy knocked that out of me. Actually my ex is why I started therapy after she explained how much that behavior was hurting her. I decided to finally change 

 

59 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

This is where you need to start.  Step back from this and look at it as if it was your brother or best friend.  What would you advise them to do?

hmm well here’s the thing, I don’t know if I trust my own advice. I’m still learning what the world looks like through the eyes of people who don’t have a history of catastrophizing and black and white thinking - which I do. 
 

for me, I’m ok with second chances contingent on the individual changing and seeking professional help. Reason is, I changed and sought professional help. And if people aren’t redeemable.. then what am I?

not everyone would be obligated to give me a second chance, but people have and I didn’t let them down. So giving her a second chance doesn’t seem inherently wrong in and of itself. 
 

but she did betray my trust in the past and maybe because trust was broken, it won’t come back. I’m unsure of that yet. 

59 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

From reading your words I can clearly see you want to try again with her but you are waiting for her to make the first move.  If you want to try again you need to be able to know why first of all.  You both sound like you have grown and figured out a lot about yourselves which is good but if you think the issues that broke you up are still there then why try?  Second you need to know what you want in your life.  Once you know that then the question is does she want something similar?

Yes I have feelings for her and would be opened to trying again so long as she is not toying with me, of course.  
 

we have a lot in common, like life goals, desires, philosophies (neither of us want kids), and the chemistry is really nice because we share the same humor.  Also as I mentioned earlier, she’s the one who called me on a lot of my crap and I got into therapy. Now that she’s in therapy too, a lot of our conversations incorporate things we are learning and practicing.  So that’s been nice, individual growth. 
 

The relationship broke down because neither of us had tools to communicate or express what was going on and we both introduced really toxic coping mechanisms that hurt eachother. In therapy I’ve learned DBT and so has she.  I’ve been able to identify and express my feelings like I never have before, hence my ability to even make these posts.  She’s been able to as well, it’s strange being able to communicate with her and i feel seen, valued, and safe. It’s a big change from my avoidant attachment style - which I was diagnosed with.  

59 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Fear is holding you back but what is there to be afraid of?  She was out of your life already so if she says No Thanks and stops talking to you then you really haven't lost anything have you?  If she does say yes I want to try again and in six months you both realize it isn't working out then what could you be afraid of there?  You survived breaking up with her before  so why not again?  You are clearly in a way better head space then 2 years ago so what is so scary?

This is very true and I think I need to meditate on this concept and really let it sink in. I can be ok again. I’ve done it before. It was hard, but I’ve done it. And if I don’t learn how to be ok, I’ll derail next time I lose something else. This is what happens when you’ve spent your entire life avoiding. I never learned how to grieve or properly let go and cope with loss. 
 

but I did want to explain why I’m so scared, well aside from my natural aversion to being vulnerable and assuming worst case scenarios has been a big part of my life 

 

you see when we were in our 20s she lied to me.  We had broken up (essentially on a break which I now understand is an awful awful idea, but back then it sounded ok) but I explained that I still obviously had feelings and if she started seeing someone please let me know so I could back away emotionally. She said she was not and wasn’t interested in doing that. 
 

then I saw her on social media posting about how in love she was with a literal stranger she just met while vacationing. It was obviously some sort of coping mechanism but it was very hurtful to me. 
 

so now… even though she’s had therapy, I don’t know whether or not she’s dealt with those behaviors. I wonder if she’s using me in those same ways she used that guy. Granted it’s incredibly different, but I have to wonder if she isn’t just extracting attention in a similar manner to get over something she may be dealing with in her life, just like she used the stranger to make what happened between her and I more palatable.  
 

I mean she’s apologized for everything and she’s not someone who ever was able to apologize before,  but trust was broken. And like I said, maybe I can’t trust her anymore and that’s ok. Maybe I shouldn’t trust her.   That’s ok too.  

 

sorry this was so long but it’s really got me thinking and things are becoming more clear. I know this is my journey and I have to learn the lessons that I need to learn I guess. 

[lostandhurt]

Straight up you were not together so either of you could date if you chose to.  The fact that she didn't tell you is not the same as cheating on you or lying to you.

 I have never met anyone that was okay with being hurt or having their heart broken so you are not so different. This is scary stuff if you over think it.  You want to know her intentions but you are smart enough to know the only way to truly know is to ask her.  I assume most of your talking is through chat or text correct?  Any voice phone calls?  How many times have you actually seen her in person since she reached out?

  The reason I ask is because it matters a lot.  Being face to face answers so many questions.

 Lost

[NighttimeNightmare]

41 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

 

Straight up you were not together so either of you could date if you chose to.  The fact that she didn't tell you is not the same as cheating on you or lying to you.

 

We had an agreement that neither of us would see other people during the break while we got help. I enrolled in therapy, she lied and engaged in some weird whirlwind romance on social media.  She broke my trust. 
 

In hindsight it worked out because I no longer agree with the whole “break” thing and in our situation it wasn’t right to have therapy with an intention of being back together; it needed to be something we did for ourselves while apart.  I let her go and figured if one day she got therapy for herself, on her own accord, and then decided to reach out… I’d entertain it.  And here we are years later.  But she still lied, betrayed me, and used someone. I asked her about it and she said she knows it was sick and wrong but at the time it was the only way she knew how to numb the pain.  I don’t want to be someone she’s numbing pain with. 
 

Anyway,  I haven’t seen her yet. I’m planning to because I wanted to check how we vibed in person and I wanted to ask her more about her therapeutic progress in person. She calls or FaceTimes me several times a week. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I enjoy hearing from her, I enjoy chatting, I enjoy sharing our lives.  I was waiting to see her in person to see what the chemistry and vibe was like, 

As long as you're enjoying yourself and it's mutually beneficial, it's fine to chitchat and catch up a bit.   There's no harm no foul in that, since it's enjoyable and beneficial to you at the moment.

If you wish to consider reestablishing a relationship, having an in-person one-on-one get-together sounds like a good idea. 

At any point in time, if you feel it's not working out, you can step back to where you were before she contacted you.

[Batya33]

I think you're drowning yourself in word salad and psycho speak -yes, even though therapy and meditation are important parts of your life- to avoid the simple, basic stuff -simple can be really hard and fragile and vulnerable but burying yourself in all this verbage is getting in your own way. You enjoy the benefits of open ended chatting without addressing the elephant in the room -her intentions about you in her life as a committed couple again and same for you.  

The reason I shared my story is because often it is and should be "black and white" meaning either you want to be together-or you don't.  If you want to, as in Harry Met Sally you want together to start ASAP. 

If you both want to be together badly enough (meaning choose together over fears/vulnerability, etc) you will choose to be direct and simple (as my future husband was and I responded in kind) and you will not want to delay to avoid either of you getting snapped up by someone else.  You won't need meditation either.  Maybe as a last minute check in like "ok do I really want this with my whole heart and soul, do I choose asking her her intentions as to exclusivity and the future over choosing my fears?

And you won't choose settling for these scraps of attention.  

Gray areas of "well..... I'm not sure I want to ask her because what if she says no or maybe or not now or not ready or - we're soooo different because we both needed therapy to understand how we felt about each other and if she's not ready it means she might be and she never makes a decision and if I am too scared it's because of abandonment issues.... 

Look -it's also that simple that if you're not ready - core-shaking doubts -doubts mean NO. Not "I'll meditate till these icky doubts dissipate and then I'll see....." - so if you can't trust her enough to be with her based on the past -move on - so you both can seek out opportunities with other people or simply opportunties to live your life free of these psychobabble shackles.  

[catfeeder]

I don't get it. All of this has been over text?

I'd just bite the bullet and ask her when I can call her. If that goes well, I'd ask when we can meet up.

If she puts the breaks on, then you have your answer. 

[lostandhurt]

Agreed^^^

 You need to meet in person.  This is the worst part of electronic communication where people substitute it for an actual human face to face connection not to mention so many hide behind it.

  I truly believe as soon as you meet and talk many of your questions will be answered without even asking them.

 When do you plan on suggesting meeting?

 Lost

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I don't get it. All of this has been over text?

I'd just bite the bullet and ask her when I can call her. If that goes well, I'd ask when we can meet up.

If she puts the breaks on, then you have your answer. 

She calls and FaceTimes me a few times a week and has asked me to visit her. I said I would but I posted here cause I’m not trying to visit someone who is f#cking with me for attention 

[boltnrun]

But if you want answers the only way is to ask her. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

  I truly believe as soon as you meet and talk many of your questions will be answered without even asking them.

 When do you plan on suggesting meeting?

 

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

But if you want answers the only way is to ask her. 

I agree, that was my plan. To meet in person and see how the chemistry was and I think it will become clear if there’s anything there.  I will ask my questions face to face  

she’s already asked me to meet and I’ve agreed. I’m temporarily staying in the next state over and she said she would pay for half of my travel expenses. (I didn’t ask her to she just invited me and said she would if I wanted to go see her)
 

Now, I just have to accept reality with grace once I get there. 

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I’m not trying to visit someone who is f#cking with me for attention 

If this is a distance situation on top of the other concerns, it may be best to step back and discontinue "I enjoy hearing from her, I enjoy chatting, I enjoy sharing our lives".

If you already feel suspicious that she's messing with you and has an agenda, it may not be worth the trip.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

15 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If this is a distance situation on top of the other concerns, it may be best to step back and discontinue "I enjoy hearing from her, I enjoy chatting, I enjoy sharing our lives".

If you already feel suspicious that she's messing with you and has an agenda, it may not be worth the trip.

 

Nah; The distance isn’t an issue. I’m not going to post too much about my broader personal life but let’s just say I’m incredibly transient as part of my lifestyle. I am temporarily in the next state over. Zipping down to see her isn’t the problem; I’m going to be a couple of hours away from her next month anyhow so I’ll probably swing by then 

[Wiseman2]

59 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I’m going to be a couple of hours away from her next month anyhow so I’ll probably swing by then 

Will there be any way to live near each other at any point? 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Will there be any way to live near each other at any point? 

Yes, that’s the easiest part of all of this.  Neither of us live life like most people do: We don’t have or want kids, we’re not bogged down by some 9-5 job for the system. We’re both very transient. I can go where I want, when I want, if ever I feel like it … and I do. It’s not unusual for either of us to jump in a car or on a plane and go other places on a complete whim  She and I have lived together and done this together for years; it’s the least of my concern   

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Yes, that’s the easiest part of all of this.  Neither of us live life like most people do: We don’t have or want kids, we’re not bogged down by some 9-5 job for the system. We’re both very transient. I can go where I want, when I want, if ever I feel like it … and I do. It’s not unusual for either of us to jump in a car or on a plane and go other places on a complete whim  She and I have lived together and done this together for years; it’s the least of my concern   

 

Perfect -does she behave in a transient way in her personal relationships too? So you only want to be with her if you meet her in person and the chemistry is still there -so make a plan for a date and meet up.  Then make your decision ASAP.

[lostandhurt]

Let us know how it goes when you do finally meet in person.

No reason to keep hashing this out in your head or here until that happens, in fact it could be detrimental by over thinking it all.

Good luck

Lost

[catfeeder]

20 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

She calls and FaceTimes me a few times a week and has asked me to visit her. I said I would but I posted here cause I’m not trying to visit someone who is f#cking with me for attention 

17 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

...It’s not unusual for either of us to jump in a car or on a plane and go other places on a complete whim  She and I have lived together and done this together for years; it’s the least of my concern 

Okay, good. Do you have an open enough mind to see how these two quotes contradict one another?

Either she is worth the risk of a quick trip, or not. You say that travel is the least of your concerns, so get a hotel room for yourself, go see her, and find out where things land.

None of us have the kind of tea leaves that can predict your future. You're the one with the history with this woman, and you get to decide how long you'll want to fantasy-build over distance instead of learning for yourself where you want to stand.

She's already asked you to visit, so this isn't exactly an uphill battle. Go find out!

[NighttimeNightmare]

13 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Let us know how it goes when you do finally meet in person.

No reason to keep hashing this out in your head or here until that happens, in fact it could be detrimental by over thinking it all.

Good luck

Lost

Thank you to you, and everyone else who responded 

 

I just take a bit longer to grasp everything as I’m still new to confronting my feelings after so long of having an avoidant attachment style! 
 

I decided to invite her out here instead and she said yes so I’m planning the arrangements now 

 

I will update the thread after we have our meeting! 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I decided to invite her out here instead and she said yes so I’m planning the arrangements

That's a great start. Good luck with the visit. Enjoy each other's company and try to let go of the analysis-paralysis. Focus on each other as people rather than therapy clients. 

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Thank you to you, and everyone else who responded 

 

I just take a bit longer to grasp everything as I’m still new to confronting my feelings after so long of having an avoidant attachment style! 
 

I decided to invite her out here instead and she said yes so I’m planning the arrangements now 

 

I will update the thread after we have our meeting! 

Perfect and I'd avoid fancy labeling that lets you make excuses about how you choose to act and  react. I find the therapy-speak and labeling to be limiting and you end up defining yourself too narrowly. 

[catfeeder]

12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Perfect and I'd avoid fancy labeling that lets you make excuses about how you choose to act and  react. I find the therapy-speak and labeling to be limiting and you end up defining yourself too narrowly. 

I agree. In lots of cases, once we adopt a label, we risk catering to it rather than growing beyond it.

If something is important enough to analyze, then it's worth exploring in person to gather enough information to do that.

Otherwise, you risk doing this thing called 'contempt prior to investigation.'

That's how people stunt themselves.

[NighttimeNightmare]

I’m having a bad day and just need to vent 

 

she called me the other day and started crying and idk how I feel about it in hindsight. I’m trying to be a good friend to her while trying to also realize what my boundaries are 

 

long story short she was freaking out about some things in life and seemed very overwhelmed and confided in me about it over text.  One of the things was her saying stuff like “I don’t even want a relationship at this point.  Like what am I supposed to do, trust you’re* putting in the work you learned in therapy and then we get together and it’s a big mess? I’d rather just be alone and live isolated by myself and just keep friends so there’s no drama”

 

*thing is, when she said “you” she wasn’t talking about me, she was using it in a general sense. It was just one of the things she threw in with a basket of other things that were overwhelming her that say. 
 

she was being very fatalistic and I recognized it and I calmed her down and told her now is the time to use some of her new tools and ground herself to snap out of this, so she said she would go do that.  A bit later she called me, I said where are you, she said she was in her car about to go hike and that she’s just so overwhelmed, and started crying  

 

I’ve never really heard her cry before, ever, let alone had her be opened with me and lean on me for safety. We had a nice conversation that felt very healthy to me. 
 

i was glad she could confide in me, people need friends and safe spaces 

 

but today I kinda feel a type of way about it  like I know the relationship comment was about her ex gf who she was with after me, I’m sure of it.  They must have both enrolled in therapy.  so really she was just calling me to cry about her fear of getting back with her ex gf; meanwhile I’m here doing the same but about her  

 

and I’m feeling like it would be so crappy of me to not be her friend, but then it’s also like is it even a friendship when I have some feelings?  The reason I picked up her call wasn’t because I thought “oh if I’m there for her I’ll get something from this,” I picked it up because I care about her as a person first and foremost 

 

she’s been so nice to me, too. Asking how I’m feeling, how I’m doing, encouraging me.  I was sick and she sent a care package  

 

It’s ironic that we are doing all of these things that our unhealthy relationship never had, yet I’m not the one she’s interested in 

 

 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 4/15/2023 at 6:00 PM, catfeeder said:

On 4/15/2023 at 5:14 AM, Batya33 said:

 

I agree. In lots of cases, once we adopt a label, we risk catering to it rather than growing beyond it.

This is true for a lot of labels, and people use them as a crutch. There’s something I got diagnosed with that I won’t even ever mention here because I think people would assume a lot and miss out on what I’m actually trying to convey 

 

I’m ok with admitting to myself I’m avoidant because well… it’s a daily struggle and my mind works differently than a lot of people who don’t have this struggle. 
 

like, I’ve put in years of work trying to undo my black and white thinking. But I think I may be at a point where I stop seeing myself as an “avoidant” and start seeing myself as someone who is moving past that, a vulnerable person. It’s a struggle but I think I’m on my way 

On 4/15/2023 at 6:00 PM, catfeeder said:

Otherwise, you risk doing this thing called 'contempt prior to investigation

I had to Google this phrase.  So this is something all of my therapists have said that I do. But I don’t see that I’m doing that? I feel like I have all of the facts and it’s other people who don’t see it. 
 

I’ve always tried to find the patterns and sequences in someone’s behavior to figure out people’s intentions and see what they were doing. So I could intervene in someone’s ability to hurt me before they could hurt me 

 

I really feel I have all of the evidence for my conclusions and the only reason I’m questioning some of my conclusions is because now I’ve got a little voice going “what if you’re wrong?”

 

but the more I tell my story I feel like the response will be “oh I didn’t understand that part before, now that you’ve painted a bigger picture I see it now. You’re right. This person is using you”

 

it’s like when my dad was sick and they said he just needed massage therapy and a few years later he died of cancer. 
 

Its all the same 

[Batya33]

I don’t think you can be a friend to her since you’re romantically attracted to her in a significant way. And I’d avoid playing therapist.  From her comments and perspective it doesn’t sound like she’s available for a stable healthy romantic relationship with you. I’d back off. I’m sorry. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don’t think you can be a friend to her since you’re romantically attracted to her in a significant way. And I’d avoid playing therapist.  From her comments and perspective it doesn’t sound like she’s available for a stable healthy romantic relationship with you. I’d back off. I’m sorry. 

See this is exactly my point. So why was I encouraged to even meet with her?

 

it’s always this way. Eventually people finally get it and agree with me that it’s dangerous 

I have all of the answers and accurate conclusions. I always do