Am I losing him or should I give him time?

[Jaunty]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 I don't see the connection between seeing someone in a good light and then feeling worthless if that person chooses not to be romantically involved with you.  

I don't think there is a real correlation.  Many people base their sense of self worth on the acceptance or love of other people.  When someone rejects them they feel worthless. 

A different trait is projection, where one attributes all kinds of things to someone else without actually knowing the reality of that person at all.  

 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I don't think there is a real correlation.  Many people base their sense of self worth on the acceptance or love of other people.  When someone rejects them they feel worthless. 

A different trait is projection, where one attributes all kinds of things to someone else without actually knowing the reality of that person at all.  

 

Thanks- I was referring specifically to the OP not what might or might not be true generally.  I don't think he rejected her as a person.  I don't think people who decline to go on another date typically reject the person.  I didn't -I simply didn't want to date the person.  Sure it can feel exactly as you described -it did to me, at times, temporarily. I haven't studied pyschology as far as what is generally the case.

[Kwothe28]

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't see the connection between seeing someone in a good light and then feeling worthless if that person chooses not to be romantically involved with you. 

People idealize another person. They see them in a "soulmate" sense. So, when another person chooses to end it from whatever reason, they see themselves as "not worthy". Like they are lacking a certain threats to be with that person and that is why that person wont be with them. Like they are not good enough. Which in lots of times couldnt be further from the truth. But it feels at the time.

OP hasnt dated in a while. And saw him as somebody who is similar to her. So she took it hard, especially with how he behave at the end. So, its probably the case of what Ive described. She even says that herself

10 hours ago, Hlsl said:

Sometimes, when we are feeling insecure and unsure of ourselves, some of us tend to lose our self-worth if we don't feel validated by the others. At the same time, we tend to see others as being better than us, we idealise them. As I was saying, some of us, this does not have to apply to all people, we all go through life in our own way. This is why it is good to receive all your feedback here, I can see how other people approach the same situation and learn from it.

Which is a pretty good self- observation. 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

People idealize another person. They see them in a "soulmate" sense. So, when another person chooses to end it from whatever reason, they see themselves as "not worthy". Like they are lacking a certain threats to be with that person and that is why that person wont be with them. Like they are not good enough. Which in lots of times couldnt be further from the truth. But it feels at the time.

OP hasnt dated in a while. And saw him as somebody who is similar to her. So she took it hard, especially with how he behave at the end. So, its probably the case of what Ive described. She even says that herself

Which is a pretty good self- observation. 

Yes I'm familiar with all of this.  I am also familiar with increased vulnerability after being out of the dating scene for awhile. 

I dated for a lot of the 24 years I was in the dating scene -meaning when I wasn't in an LTR.  Met over 100 men in person through online sites.  Countless blind dates, dated friends who became more, people I met through work, at work, a neighbor, people I met at singles events, singles retreats, religious activities. 

I just texted my friend a current photo (a photo from his company's website -we lost touch in the 1990s when we ended up working for the same company after not seeing each other for about 12 years) of my first "love" first kiss (song was Imagine right after John Lennon was killed) - who broke my 14 year old heart -I felt like the OP did.  After a month of dating.  He was 13 I think LOL.  But he did. 

I get it.  I think the OP feels what she feels and if she wants to be out there in the dating world hopefully she'll develop a thicker skin so she can choose a reaction to those feelings that allow her to move on in a healthier and more self-affirming way.  I had to build a thick skin over time.  I did.  Because my goal was marriage and family. 

It was so rough out there for all those years -especially when I got in my own way! - but totally worth it given my goal.  Had that not been my goal I'd never have done all the emotional and physical work for casual dating.  So if the OP is looking for serious/long term I hope she doesn't allow herself to react to her feelings so that she cannot move on with a positive mindset.  I had to marshal up internal and external resources and support to do so.  Especially once I was in my 30s.  Good luck OP!!

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Hlsl said:

Sometimes, when we are feeling insecure and unsure of ourselves, some of us tend to lose our self-worth if we don't feel validated by the others. At the same time, we tend to see others as being better than us, we idealise them. As I was saying, some of us, this does not have to apply to all people, we all go through life in our own way. This is why it is good to receive all your feedback here, I can see how other people approach the same situation and learn from it.

Yes -I learned a lot this way as well!  My husband has better qualities than me in certain respects -I admire those qualities a lot and in fact I've grown as a person as I see him as a role model.  But I don't put him on a pedestal generally - and I don't want to be put on a pedestal by anyone (except my son LOL sometimes!) - I used to get turned off by men who put me on a pedestal and I could see and feel that "ick" sense from men when I did the same.

[Lambert]

I think a lot of the emotions we experience with rejection stem from a mental picture we have of ourselves, our lives, what the other person represents to us and to the world about us. 

If you view your partner or potential partner as someone others see as positive or a positive attribute to how they see you, it can cause one to really spiral if they feel they are losing that. 

Many people are heavily invested in appearances and it is the source of a lot of pain. If one can detach from needing outside approval they can avoid a lot of this stuff. like a baby when a parent tries to let it self soothe itself. It could be a controversial topic for parents of babies, but for adults? it seems like a good goal lol 

I remember my mom saying to me (as a young teen) "if they don't like us, we don't like them, right? " and poor misguided Lambert that I was, was like no. I like them and I want them to like me!  lol

[Batya33]

36 minutes ago, Lambert said:

like a baby when a parent tries to let it self soothe itself. It could be a controversial topic for parents of babies, but for adults? it seems like a good goal lol 

I remember my mom saying to me (as a young teen) "if they don't like us, we don't like them, right? " and poor misguided Lambert that I was, was like no. I like them and I want them to like me!  lol

I also didn't like the "their loss" response or the "oh they're just jealous of you" when I was teased.  It didn't resonate. Yes I wanted people who didn't think I was cool enough... to think I was cool enough LOL.  It's a normal part of the human condition which is why I wrote about the thick skin practice above -we feel what we feel.  Feelings are not facts.  We choose the reaction.

Parents have the obligation to guide their babies to self soothe (and children and teenagers).  To me it's uncontroversial.  The controversy with self-soothing -including with adults -to me has to do with approach. Parents who leave a baby to cry himself to sleep as opposed to a controlled crying approach when the baby is developmentally ready likely will be met with reproach or worse.

So with the adult OP I don't favor an approach -with exception -of telling the person who is feeling worthless "his loss" or "you got this!!" or "he was a jerk anyway."  The exception is in the dodging a bullet situations -when the person who doesn't as for another date has behaved in a way that is offensive, harassing - evil -then of course the person has dodged a bullet.  I think people who take this approach often are extremely well meaning.  And it never resonated with me in any way that allowed me to choose to move on in reaction to feelings of rejection.

My thick skin approach in part involved having the expectation that each date was the last unless there was a time/place plan for another date.  Not from a negative sense but realistically -until there is a plan for another date there is no date.  That person might like me, be attracted to me, etc but at that moment I assume he does not wish to date me again and might change his mind later. 

I never waited for "later" I simply kept on with my life including looking for other people to date, going on first meets, networking among women who might know single men, setting up my friends with single men since that's a great way to help others and they will reciprocate.  

I didn't care whether the person liked me, was attracted to me, sent me "signals" after a date. If he didn't ask me out again I ended or severely limited contact.  The only relevant sign he wanted to date me was planning a date -time and place-in advance or responding enthusiastically to my invitation for a date. 

There's a woman I connected with via linked in and facebook to potentially be platonic friends.  She is in the same field as me and we have other things in common.  She suggested meeting up one day. I suggested a convenient location and gave her a general sense of my availability. We planned on reconnecting a week later.  I did as we discussed -texted her.  We texted on and off and she had to go. 

A few weeks later I texted her as it was a holiday we both celebrated.  She said "we should get together!" And I diplomatically referenced that she had to end our texting last time so I was glad to hear from her again.  She didn't remember.  I again provided my general schedule and a suggestion.  Ball is in her court again. 

It's now been weeks again.  I don't care at all about her enthusiasm in wanting to meet. Her actions tell me she's not willing to put in the effort to actually make a plan.  I encounter a number of people like this.  I do not behave this way.  If I say I can make a plan I follow through.  And show up barring an emergency. 

She probably will message me at some point again and I'm happy to chat with her if I have time.  But I assume she's not interested in meeting me. Otherwise she'd show it with her actions.  I think the same is true in dating (but with dating I'd not give the benefit of chit chatting -am fine with a platonic friend).  

I know dating is different -but the watch the feet -what a person does, especially over a longer period of time -not the lips - what they say - helped me a lot in my 24 years before I started dating my future husband.  

 

[catfeeder]

I’m so sorry this guy hurt you, and I think I’m not the only one here who is angry at him FOR you.

How long we’re you dating him?

Looking back, can you identify anything about him that might have given a less invested person some pause?

 I ask because those would be things you can put in your pocket to build some confidence in your ability to see that stuff going forward. If not, then dating feels more like a crapshoot.

[SherrySher]

OP, my take on this is very short and to the point.

It doesn't matter what is going on with him, with his ex, or getting back together, or his personal life, etc...the bottom line is, you sent a text, if he was any kind of gentleman at all, or had any kind of respect for you, he would have replied.

The fact that you sent TWO, and got ignored, should be enough now for you to realize that this man has no respect and no manners.

He isn't worth your time.

There is no excuse in the world for behaving badly like that to a lady.

[Batya33]

10 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

I’m so sorry this guy hurt you, and I think I’m not the only one here who is angry at him FOR you.

How long we’re you dating him?

Looking back, can you identify anything about him that might have given a less invested person some pause?

 I ask because those would be things you can put in your pocket to build some confidence in your ability to see that stuff going forward. If not, then dating feels more like a crapshoot.

Yes I agree- how he reacted -his MIA/ghost nonsense -speaks volumes about his character and integrity. 

[SherrySher]

Even if for some reason he lost interest, even if he got back together with his ex, or whatever went on, he still should have been a decent guy, let you know and been respectful.

The fact that he just chose to ignore you and ghost, is just plain bad behavior.

Don't take it personally, this shows his character and does not reflect anything about you at all.

It's a shame he isn't the nice guy you thought he was, but he really isn't. 

[Hlsl]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes I'm familiar with all of this.  I am also familiar with increased vulnerability after being out of the dating scene for awhile. 

I dated for a lot of the 24 years I was in the dating scene -meaning when I wasn't in an LTR.  Met over 100 men in person through online sites.  Countless blind dates, dated friends who became more, people I met through work, at work, a neighbor, people I met at singles events, singles retreats, religious activities. 

I just texted my friend a current photo (a photo from his company's website -we lost touch in the 1990s when we ended up working for the same company after not seeing each other for about 12 years) of my first "love" first kiss (song was Imagine right after John Lennon was killed) - who broke my 14 year old heart -I felt like the OP did.  After a month of dating.  He was 13 I think LOL.  But he did. 

I get it.  I think the OP feels what she feels and if she wants to be out there in the dating world hopefully she'll develop a thicker skin so she can choose a reaction to those feelings that allow her to move on in a healthier and more self-affirming way.  I had to build a thick skin over time.  I did.  Because my goal was marriage and family. 

It was so rough out there for all those years -especially when I got in my own way! - but totally worth it given my goal.  Had that not been my goal I'd never have done all the emotional and physical work for casual dating.  So if the OP is looking for serious/long term I hope she doesn't allow herself to react to her feelings so that she cannot move on with a positive mindset.  I had to marshal up internal and external resources and support to do so.  Especially once I was in my 30s.  Good luck OP!!

Thanķ you so much. Not sure I can change so drastically at this age, I honestly lost my courage for now. Funny thing is I wasn't even thinking about starting dating again until he asked me out, that was not my immediate goal, finding someone. I guess I simply wanted him, not a partner or a husband in general.

[Hlsl]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes -I learned a lot this way as well!  My husband has better qualities than me in certain respects -I admire those qualities a lot and in fact I've grown as a person as I see him as a role model.  But I don't put him on a pedestal generally - and I don't want to be put on a pedestal by anyone (except my son LOL sometimes!) - I used to get turned off by men who put me on a pedestal and I could see and feel that "ick" sense from men when I did the same.

I haven't put him on a pedestal either, I just overfocused on his good traits and the many things we have in common, that's why I idealised the situation.

[Hlsl]

3 hours ago, SherrySher said:

Even if for some reason he lost interest, even if he got back together with his ex, or whatever went on, he still should have been a decent guy, let you know and been respectful.

The fact that he just chose to ignore you and ghost, is just plain bad behavior.

Don't take it personally, this shows his character and does not reflect anything about you at all.

It's a shame he isn't the nice guy you thought he was, but he really isn't. 

Thank you. I agree. Whatever happened, respect should not have lacked between us. I always felt respected by him as a friend, so this behaviour is impossible for me to justify.

[Hlsl]

4 hours ago, SherrySher said:

OP, my take on this is very short and to the point.

It doesn't matter what is going on with him, with his ex, or getting back together, or his personal life, etc...the bottom line is, you sent a text, if he was any kind of gentleman at all, or had any kind of respect for you, he would have replied.

The fact that you sent TWO, and got ignored, should be enough now for you to realize that this man has no respect and no manners.

He isn't worth your time.

There is no excuse in the world for behaving badly like that to a lady.

Thank you. Until sharing my thoughts here, I had the feeling I probably live in a bubble and my expectations from people are unrealistic. It is heart-warming to see so many kind and decent people here who proved me wrong.

[Hlsl]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I’m so sorry this guy hurt you, and I think I’m not the only one here who is angry at him FOR you.

How long we’re you dating him?

Looking back, can you identify anything about him that might have given a less invested person some pause?

 I ask because those would be things you can put in your pocket to build some confidence in your ability to see that stuff going forward. If not, then dating feels more like a crapshoot.

Thank you so much for your support. 

To respond to your question, the only thing that comes to my mind looking back is that he mentioned that he feels depressed and very unhappy with the new job and city he has just moved to. And I know that he also took distance from a very close friend, he seems to talk to other people, but not to him anymore. My guess is that he is confused and acts in an imature way. Having had only two relationships until this age, he probably feels that this is last chance to be young and explore. On the other hand, he is very sad that the time is passing and he really wants to make a family, like most of his friends, he kept talking about this. 

 

[Batya33]

54 minutes ago, Hlsl said:

Thanķ you so much. Not sure I can change so drastically at this age, I honestly lost my courage for now. Funny thing is I wasn't even thinking about starting dating again until he asked me out, that was not my immediate goal, finding someone. I guess I simply wanted him, not a partner or a husband in general.

Oh ok I see- I'm sorry he disappointed you.  I don't think you live in a bubble. I think people generally are good.  I think people who are good and reasonably confident pace themselves in a romantic relationship as  far as choosing how attached to get despite strong feelings.  I know you were first friends but romantic attachment is different and can bring out different sides of people.

I am 56.  I am still changing and growing.  I did a great deal of changing and growing in my 40s which is when I first married, became a mother, brand new city for the first time in my life, brand new job -full time mom.  REally - "at this age??" I really hope you lose such self-limiting notions.  It is 100% your call whether you want to be in a serious romantic relationship with anyone else or look to be in one.  It could be the right decision for you to be on your own and live your life however makes you happy. 

I think it's normal to feel less than courageous after being disappointed in this way by this person who also was your close friend.  Of course and I'm sorry!!

I don't think it's inconsistent of all for this guy to want a family. Men have very few concerns as far as a clock ticking - I know of two men who had their 5th child in their early 60s.  (One adopted, one had twins with his new wife).  

[Hlsl]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Oh ok I see- I'm sorry he disappointed you.  I don't think you live in a bubble. I think people generally are good.  I think people who are good and reasonably confident pace themselves in a romantic relationship as  far as choosing how attached to get despite strong feelings.  I know you were first friends but romantic attachment is different and can bring out different sides of people.

I am 56.  I am still changing and growing.  I did a great deal of changing and growing in my 40s which is when I first married, became a mother, brand new city for the first time in my life, brand new job -full time mom.  REally - "at this age??" I really hope you lose such self-limiting notions.  It is 100% your call whether you want to be in a serious romantic relationship with anyone else or look to be in one.  It could be the right decision for you to be on your own and live your life however makes you happy. 

I think it's normal to feel less than courageous after being disappointed in this way by this person who also was your close friend.  Of course and I'm sorry!!

I don't think it's inconsistent of all for this guy to want a family. Men have very few concerns as far as a clock ticking - I know of two men who had their 5th child in their early 60s.  (One adopted, one had twins with his new wife).  

Thank you for sharing this and for all your support throughout these difficult days for me, I honestly appreciate it. I know, I must reset my thinking and hope that there will be someone one day that will make me feel exactly the opposite of what I feel today. 

[waffle]

Just be aware that he will probably come back at some point, all apologetic and with lots of excuses.  If you engage with him again at that point, the message you're sending him is: you can treat me poorly and I will accept it.  For that reason you can be guaranteed 100% that he will disappear on you again.

Don't do it.  

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Hlsl said:

Thank you for sharing this and for all your support throughout these difficult days for me, I honestly appreciate it. I know, I must reset my thinking and hope that there will be someone one day that will make me feel exactly the opposite of what I feel today. 

This is like a double whammy and it must feel shocking for things to take this turn. I’m sorry. 
Also waffle makes a good point. I also can imagine him reaching out and yes be strong.  You know what he’s capable of now. 

[Hlsl]

1 hour ago, waffle said:

Just be aware that he will probably come back at some point, all apologetic and with lots of excuses.  If you engage with him again at that point, the message you're sending him is: you can treat me poorly and I will accept it.  For that reason you can be guaranteed 100% that he will disappear on you again.

Don't do it.  

Thank you. I doubt that he will return, he knows me well enough not to do it. And he has already proven how much he keeps me in his mind. At this point, I don't feel there is anything I can tell him anymore. Once the trust has been broken, I can't mend it back, that's how I am. 

[Hlsl]

29 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

This is like a double whammy and it must feel shocking for things to take this turn. I’m sorry. 
Also waffle makes a good point. I also can imagine him reaching out and yes be strong.  You know what he’s capable of now. 

Thank you, but he won't reach out, he knows I am too proud for that and he knows very well he messed it up with me. He is not a very brave person by default, so I doubt he will ever bother to initiate a discussion and hear the truth.

[waffle]

1 hour ago, Hlsl said:

Thank you, but he won't reach out, he knows I am too proud for that and he knows very well he messed it up with me. He is not a very brave person by default, so I doubt he will ever bother to initiate a discussion and hear the truth.

Men like this count on you waiting for him.  And the fact that your question is/was "am I losing him?" and wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt is an indication that he is right.

He will definitely be back.

[Hlsl]

6 minutes ago, waffle said:

Men like this count on you waiting for him.  And the fact that your question is/was "am I losing him?" and wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt is an indication that he is right.

He will definitely be back.

I feel I learned a lot these days after posting my question, from all of you who were so supportive, it was eye-opening. Thank you.

[Batya33]

22 minutes ago, Hlsl said:

I feel I learned a lot these days after posting my question, from all of you who were so supportive, it was eye-opening. Thank you.

Thank you for being so patient and tolerant about my responses and taking them as intended.