Not surprising, still painful.

[boltnrun]

How about "I'm a terrific person, with or without a partner. If I do meet the right partner that will only add to my life".

[Batya33]

There are no guarantees to finding a life partner or spouse.  Also doesn't mean having to resort to some notion of "fading away into singledom".  I think mantras are important.  I use them as a calming tool. I don't use them to try to make myself actually believe them at all times. If it works for you that way great!

[DarkCh0c0]

@1a1a my 2 cents: how about getting a dating book in the meanwhile?

I've ordered one a few days ago. Maybe reading about dating and how you can better find a partner will be helpful to you and fun? These books usually pack a bunch and you can find strategies that work for you! 

[Batya33]

Just now, DarkCh0c0 said:

@1a1a my 2 cents: how about getting a dating book in the meanwhile?

I've ordered one a few days ago. Maybe reading about dating and how you can better find a partner will be helpful to you and fun? These books usually pack a bunch and you can find strategies that work for you! 

One oldie but goodie -so great -Sills, A Fine Romance.  Also heard great things about Dating For Dummies

[gamon]

“Today’s mantra, I don’t at all believe in manifestation but I am open to the idea if I repeat this thought in my thoughts head or out loud a lot, I may create a strong neural pathway for it”

I will win the lottery. I will win the lottery. I will win the lottery. 

[1a1a]

Hahhhhhhh, maybe my ex has been repeating 1a1a will change her mind, 1a1a will change mind. (And then vaping because I’m not and the cognitive dissonance is too much for him).

I like that one even more boltnrun.

Ram Dass uses mantras that way too. When he feels himself getting worked up he fingers beads and chants. Now he just needs to touch the beads and the chant comes. I’m not spiritual, haven’t been to india and don’t speak Hindi so using ram ram ram doesn’t feel right but I would like to find something that fits for me. (Another anchor, look for all the anchors). 
 

Dark choco, that is a fantastic idea!!!!! I’ve just started reading break up boot camp, I’ll work through that first and chase it with a dating manual or few. (Some of these ideas, like reading books on heartbreak and dating, seem like such obviously good ideas and I wonder why I never thought to last time my heart was broken. That time was awful, that time I really needed more tools and more support than I had). 

[Batya33]

I think you grab at and cling to complicated ways of analyzing what is simple and basic so you can remain in the status quo. So often what is simple and basic requires action and choices that also are basic yet not easy to do. 
repeating mantras may work for some just like hanging upside down works for others. 
today I had to force myself to go to an outdoor social event for parents at my son’s new school.
I had to accept I’d be inconvenienced since I have specific errands and things I do Friday mornings plus despite being extroverted meeting new parents is kind of daunting. I refused to let myself get mired in excuses. I knew it was really good for me to put myself out there and good for my son too. 

I made excuses as I walked the one long block to the park meeting place after I dropped off my son. But I kept putting one foot in front of the other. That simple. One foot. One step. 
I ended up having a great time. Was really impressed with how well attended and organized the event was and met a few people I will stay in touch with. 
I could have researched the awkwardness of post-pandemic socializing or told myself I’d go “next time “ etc - instead of spinning my wheels I put one foot in front of the other despite internal protests. And felt really rewarded for it. I highly recommend it over the woo woo psycho speak you can’t seem to let go of. 
 

[1a1a]

You mean just doing the thing? (In my case this would be just let him go and never look back yeah?) I guess I did quite enjoy that creek walk the other night I definitely didn’t want to go. The thing is I need something to try and stop my tongue from probing the gap where the ex shaped missing tooth is. As long as my mind is turning over the loss of him doesn’t that keep me stuck there?
 

I dreamed that I woke up to the ex in my bed. I was aware that was a big boundary crossed (aka him doing whatever he wants without checking if the want is mutual first) hbut in my dream I was glad he was there. Stupid dreams. And now I know, you can dream of waking up!

 

[1a1a]

I feel like I’m coming to accept we don’t work. (No looking at articles on how to get your ex back this time around), that he was a bridge not the destination, that it’s ok to love and be loved and still not work together as romantic partners, that this doesn’t really change the trajectory of my life much. 

 

But gosh darn it why do I still feel anxiety welling up?

[DarkCh0c0]

@1a1acause you need to give yourself some time and space to accept what happened and eventually move on. Take it one day at a time.

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I feel like I’m coming to accept we don’t work. (No looking at articles on how to get your ex back this time around), that he was a bridge not the destination, that it’s ok to love and be loved and still not work together as romantic partners, that this doesn’t really change the trajectory of my life much. 

 

But gosh darn it why do I still feel anxiety welling up?

Because feelings aren't facts and the more space you give the feelings in your brain (rather than letting them exist on the periphery) and the more power you give the feelings by mulling them over and analyzing them with flowery words, the more you get in your own way.

Great that you went on the creek walk!

[1a1a]

The only way past the storm is through!

I’ve got to keep practicing at that (not following the thoughts and feelings down rabbit holes). Eeeee it was so good!

This very early morning woken up by two housemates who dated and came apart but haven’t fully separated cos proximity. When they argue he withdraws and she escalates to crying and raised voice pleading banging on his door. Wait, she’s me. That’s how I felt the other night when my ex was being my echo. It’s easier to see with her ‘you’re a bad combo because of how the pair of you navigate conflict’ but if I can see it with them then I Have to see it in my own relationship. At least as I am now I go just as unconscious with my ex as she is when she’s howling and banging on the door. No good. (Now I’m awake in the middle of the night and my brain is trying to tread its familiar path of thinking about my ex and I’d like to deploy the really hot shower and go back to sleep but housemate who was banging is now slumped on the bathroom floor. Alive. Very sad. )

[Batya33]

I'm sorry your housemates are keeping you up. Those are interesting insights and really have no relevance to you.  Every relationship is different and focusing on how these two separate people argue can be fun to ponder but irrelevant to your situation and going down that path is similar to you choosing to dress things up in fancy words or psychobabble to avoid getting down to common sense simple stuff. 

I too am fascinated by how other people relate, their choices, their marriages and I was so hung up on hearing all of their opinions when I was going through my own angst and sometimes it helped short term, mostly it was just a temporary bandaid.  When I'm listening just to try to help the person and/or because it's a topic that interests me that is fine but not as a way to resolve any issues in my own marriage.  Apples and oranges. 

 

[1a1a]

Today I wondered if the ex might be a narc, realise it doesn’t matter because he ended it, for whatever reason, and that is all the information I should need, told myself If the door is closed it’s not my door.
 

There’s still bargaining, under what conditions could we reunite? If he could tell me why it’s going to be different next time.
 

Then think about how absolutely sad and miserable he must have been feeling preceding ending it (assuming best faith not a narc). Why would I want him to persevere knowing how much it hurt him? The man had to vape to stay with me, at the very least an amber flag that he was way out of sync with himself.
 

Keep facing forward 1a1a, take steps in a forward direction. Cancel those hollow promise bookings, research your new plan for a trip to India, make a list of social hobby things you can attend and get attending! Apply for that touring job you saw advertised and for work on cruise ships. Step forward!

There’s still stuff in my head it would be better to get out in the journal but I’m out of time, bed calls for the work does not let up. Hopefully get time to do some stuff of life stuff tomorrow night. 

[Jibralta]

9 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

Today I wondered if the ex might be a narc, realise it doesn’t matter because he ended it, for whatever reason, and that is all the information I should need, told myself If the door is closed it’s not my door.

No, it does matter. This is something you should think about. It will help you identify problems and steer clear of them in the future. Definitely educate yourself.

[1a1a]

I’ve been reading up on it a bit and he does some things that are a bit narc like but it’s always a very small number of the listed traits. And then I think if things he did that showed care or compromise and I go back to thinking he’s not and then I wonder if I’m spackling. All of which is moot because he’s gone but perhaps it’s always worth getting read up on narcissist spotting. I’ll be back out there trying to date again in the future and they’re out there. 
 

With or without narcissism, definitely didn’t like how he made a plan for us without me and got upset when I didn’t go along with it. And I haaaaate how he twists his memories of conversations to favour the point he’s trying to make (saying he called me when I called him, expanding or shrinking numbers when it helps his case, saying he firmed up plans when to my memory he definitely left them open. It might come from an innocent place like small children tell lies to get out of trouble but it’s crazy making). Hate hate hate do not want in a partner going forward!

[DarkCh0c0]

How to spot a narcissist...

[Batya33]

I wouldn't try to diagnose -even if you were a healthcare provider typically you don't treat people or diagnose people you're personally close to.  Certainly decide whether you have a pattern as far as being attracted to and pursuing unavailable people/people who are not that into you and staying too long beyond when it's clear they are not that into you.

I agree with reminding yourself that for whatever reason he doesn't want to be with you badly enough and anyway you two are not a good match for several reasons.  

[Jibralta]

I agree. Actual 'diagnosis' by a layman is impossible. But don't let that stop you from trying to identify and understand what might be going on--just like you might try to understand and identify anything that's interesting or relevant to you (physics, art history, music, etc.).

Don't shut the door on curiosity or learning because you lack a formal degree or because your relationship is over. There's no danger in learning, there's no danger in free speech, and knowledge of these personality traits is important--not only his traits, but your own as well.

[Batya33]

50 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I agree. Actual 'diagnosis' by a layman is impossible. But don't let that stop you from trying to identify and understand what might be going on--just like you might try to understand and identify anything that's interesting or relevant to you (physics, art history, music, etc.).

Don't shut the door on curiosity or learning because you lack a formal degree or because your relationship is over. There's no danger in learning, there's no danger in free speech, and knowledge of these personality traits is important--not only his traits, but your own as well.

Yes. His traits without the irrelevancy of labeling. I didn’t realize how distant my ex was until we - ironically - had distance for a number of months. But never occurred to me to label him generally and I was quite confident he’d marry a lovely person. He just wasn’t for me. 

[1a1a]

Things I learnt today; the biggest thing between my ex and I is still the timeline for having kids (assuming best faith not narc, not debilitatingly selfish, not avoidant, not otherwise shady). He had been hoping when I came to India and saw his home and met his friends and family there, maybe next year I would be ready (and who knows, maybe I would, but speaking as a person who’s only just started turning the idea over in their head I can’t say from this vantage point, I just can’t. It’s like asking me the view from the top of the hill when I’m standing at the bottom taking the first few steps to the ascent .) In all the time he’s known me he’s tried I suppose the things that would make him feel secure but It doesn’t come naturally and he seems unable to adapt his behaviour to courses of action that would actually result in me feeling secure. 
 

He’s walking a fine line of asking me back. When we talk, I think definitely if we were face to face, all he can think about is getting back together. Best faith take the feelings are still strong. Really a break up that’s going to need no contact to stick. I’ve never had one like this before. Not a great experience I wouldn’t rate it. I felt a spike of longing talking to him, before that I’d fairly convinced my heart he’s not safe! And I could feel a bit angry, about how he seemed to end it just when asked for increased closeness (but that’s not taking into account his squashed down biological clock is it. Then, maybe the kinder way to end it with me would have been to say something like ‘I love you so much I tried to squash down my desire to start a family now but I’m so sorry, I can’t do that any longer and I think this means we need to part ways.’ Ehhh, he’s never been compatible with me in terms of communication. Hopefully some men out there are, and their pace is like mine and so our wants for how the relationship unfolds line up with mine and there is waaaaay less conflict!
 

Even though the discussion was calm and the thought of him staying with me and continueing to vape to deal with the cognitive dissonance of it is enough to compel me to let him go free (let alone the fear of break up 4 in 6 weeks time. He says he had felt fine with our partnership until couples counselling. Maybe that fineness was built on some very wishing and hoping thinking about how quickly I can nurture a maternal instinct though in which case, disguised blessing about that bubble being popped surely.) And I don’t recall feeling my body tense up, and in fact I went for a walk while we spoke so I was moving my body. Still, I’m having a restless night. Stupid physical reaction to loss!

 

If I want to talk to someone I should just call them. It was a catch up with a taewonese friend that was the catalyst for calling the ex, her response is always ‘just call him’ ‘don’t wait around for an answer just call’. Pretty different to sitting back and waiting for them to call you. I can see how my ego is getting in the way there. 
 

And the benefits of contact probably did not outweigh the cost (at the very least lost sleep).
 

Time to try and sleep again. 
 

 

[Batya33]

I think the biggest thing here is he is not that into you -if it wasn't the kids timeline thing it would be something else.  Please don't settle for less than an enthusiastic I want to be with you, only you, I am committed to you and our future - otherwise the fine lines will be not what he's walking but increasing numbers of them all over your face from the stress of being so dishonest with yourself.  

Whether he is a person who would be that into anyone and be a good partner in a healthful relationship is anyone's guess. It's not for you to guess because full stop he's not that into you and has one foot at least out the door at all times.  It's hard enough when two people are fully committed to each other and love each other (yes they are related, no they are not the same thing -you can have loving feelings without being committed to a person).

Your moments of longing remind me of something -many years ago when I was plagued with doubts about the man I was serious with -we were saying goodbye before I got on public transportation and all of a sudden we had one of those movie-like romantic kisses that lasted forever and I was like -wow -he really is the one for me -this is the sign, this is the aha moment, this is it.  It was incredible.  It was that spark of fire of strong feelings -not just chemistry.

I was devastated when after only a little while the feeling faded, poof and I no longer felt sure. Now I know exactly why. 

Because if there's no strong foundation of security, of rightness, then those moments of connection of strong feelings -are not going to rule the day.  Maybe in the movies, not in real life.  They can enhance what's already there but there was no there there.  You have no strong foundation of love, security, commitment with this person.

  He's showing you that all the time.  And you're still grasping at straws and settling for scrappy straws.  It's a shame- make a different choice IMO.

[catfeeder]

I guess I'd ask myself if this punishing tantrum of rejection is the way this man behaves when he doesn't get his way, would this ever be the kind of coparent I'd choose for my child if I did want to have one?

From there you could ask, if I wouldn't want my child to suffer the manipulative cruelty of such a man, why would I even consider accepting such behavior for my Self?

What was speaking with the guy supposed to accomplish?

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I guess I'd ask myself if this punishing tantrum of rejection is the way this man behaves when he doesn't get his way, would this ever be the kind of coparent I'd choose for my child if I did want to have one?

From there you could ask, if I wouldn't want my child to suffer the manipulative cruelty of such a man, why would I even consider accepting such behavior for my Self?

What was speaking with the guy supposed to accomplish?

I agree but she also now knows his hateful pattern and she chooses to come back for more -she wouldn't have to be subjected to it if she stayed away.

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I agree but she also now knows his hateful pattern and she chooses to come back for more -she wouldn't have to be subjected to it if she stayed away.

Exactly. It's not a requirement to vilify or hate someone in order to recognize that they're a lousy match for you and your future.

This renders their reasons for mistreatment irrelevant, and it removes any need to assign or accept 'blame'.

Most people are NOT a good match. They may have seemed like one at some point, but we can outgrow perfectly nice people--even ones who are not dismissive and cruel and punishing.

So if someone turns dismissive and cruel and punishing, that is a no-brainer for anyone with a healthy enough sense of self respect.